Baldur's Gate The Baldur's Gate Series Thread

[oldmanpaco]

I agree. If I was asked to name the monsters I encountered, from memory, it would be something like:

- Gibberlings
- Wolves and variations
- Bears and variations
- Hobgoblins and variations
- Kobolds and variations
- Ogres and variations
- Spiders and variations (fuck these)
- Skeletons and variations (fuck these too, motherfucking Skeleton Warriors and their bitch arrows in the Rogue's Guild maze)
- Sirens, Dryads.
- Wyverns.
- Ankhegs.
- Battle Horros, Invisible Spectres, that kind of stuff.

There are also ghouls/ghasts, slimes/jellies, doppelgangers, werewolves, bassalisks, ettercaps, gnolls, xvarts, plus some one offs like the revenant or that demon thing at the dig site.

 

[Sigourn]

I agree. If I was asked to name the monsters I encountered, from memory, it would be something like:

- Gibberlings
- Wolves and variations
- Bears and variations
- Hobgoblins and variations
- Kobolds and variations
- Ogres and variations
- Spiders and variations (fuck these)
- Skeletons and variations (fuck these too, motherfucking Skeleton Warriors and their bitch arrows in the Rogue's Guild maze)
- Sirens, Dryads.
- Wyverns.
- Ankhegs.
- Battle Horros, Invisible Spectres, that kind of stuff.

There are also ghouls/ghasts, slimes/jellies, doppelgangers, werewolves, bassalisks, ettercaps, gnolls, xvarts, plus some one offs like the revenant or that demon thing at the dig site.

Good catches, I knew I was missing something. I can't believe I didn't remember all of that (gnolls are forgettable as fuck though, same with ettercaps).

 

[octavius]

I'm guessing the love for BG1 stems more from its position as a 'first' among isometric fantasy RPGs in a particular graphical style which would have been top-drawer for the time and one has to assume that many Withcer fans will still love Witcher 1 in 15 years time, even though its really nothing special either, it was just the 'first' of a generation of a particular kind/brand of game.

No, Fallout was the first of that kind.

Anyway, most people who still love BG1 play a modded version, with higher resolution, different spawn system (several to choose from), more interesting and challenging combat, and more active companions.
Vanilla BG1 was indeed a rather mediocre game, and it's not something I personally would go back to. But it was groundbreaking in some ways, and most importantly it was moddable.

BG2 fixed most of the things people complained about re BG1. There's few wildernes areas and they are more linear, virtually every house in Athkatla has some quest associated with it so unlike BG1 no need to kick in every door and explore, and there's very few "trash" fights.

 

[JDR13]

I feel western developers really fucking suck at polish in their RPGs. Never, ever, in my whole life of playing Final Fantasy, did I ever encountered ridiculous cutscenes appearing out of nowhere and breaking the flow, messages such as THAT ("SAREVOK HAS FALLEN") or so many other things I've witnessed in quite a few games already. But Baldur's Gate is by far the worst: kill an enemy, pick up a scroll and suddenly you are thrown into a narrated cutscene regarding info you still haven't read for yourself, what the shit.

Please tell me that's sarcasm.

 

[Sigourn]

Please tell me that's sarcasm.

It may very well be sarcasm depending on your definition of "polish".

 

[Cross]

Never, ever, in my whole life of playing Final Fantasy

I'm sorry to hear you've had such a terrible life.

 

[MilesBeyond]

I feel western developers really fucking suck at polish in their RPGs. Never, ever, in my whole life of playing Final Fantasy, did I ever encountered ridiculous cutscenes appearing out of nowhere and breaking the flow, messages such as THAT ("SAREVOK HAS FALLEN") or so many other things I've witnessed in quite a few games already. But Baldur's Gate is by far the worst: kill an enemy, pick up a scroll and suddenly you are thrown into a narrated cutscene regarding info you still haven't read for yourself, what the shit.

Please tell me that's sarcasm.

TBH I think it's a reasonable criticism of BG1, but not WRPGs as a whole, and it certainly isn't something that JRPGs are any better at.

I've always felt that BG1 has one of the more interesting stories I've seen in an RPG, but it isn't told in a very good way. Advancing the game through picking up scrolls is a good example. It jerks you out of the moment, the chapter narratives tend to make more sense once you've read the scrolls but they activate before you can, and they rob the player of any sense of mystery and "Oh hey, I wonder if this letter we found is relevant to the larger plot or not." And then you've got chapter 6, where the game's big plot twist can be totally missed if you happen to do something that's totally logical.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

I'm guessing the love for BG1 stems more from its position as a 'first' among isometric fantasy RPGs in a particular graphical style which would have been top-drawer for the time and one has to assume that many Withcer fans will still love Witcher 1 in 15 years time, even though its really nothing special either, it was just the 'first' of a generation of a particular kind/brand of game.

No, Fallout was the first of that kind.

Anyway, most people who still love BG1 play a modded version, with higher resolution, different spawn system (several to choose from), more interesting and challenging combat, and more active companions.
Vanilla BG1 was indeed a rather mediocre game, and it's not something I personally would go back to. But it was groundbreaking in some ways, and most importantly it was moddable.

BG2 fixed most of the things people complained about re BG1. There's few wildernes areas and they are more linear, virtually every house in Athkatla has some quest associated with it so unlike BG1 no need to kick in every door and explore, and there's very few "trash" fights.

I'm not aware that Fallout was a RTwP fantasy RPG. Perhaps you played a modded version

I feel western developers really fucking suck at polish in their RPGs. Never, ever, in my whole life of playing Final Fantasy, did I ever encountered ridiculous cutscenes appearing out of nowhere and breaking the flow, messages such as THAT ("SAREVOK HAS FALLEN") or so many other things I've witnessed in quite a few games already. But Baldur's Gate is by far the worst: kill an enemy, pick up a scroll and suddenly you are thrown into a narrated cutscene regarding info you still haven't read for yourself, what the shit.

Please tell me that's sarcasm.

TBH I think it's a reasonable criticism of BG1, but not WRPGs as a whole, and it certainly isn't something that JRPGs are any better at.

I've always felt that BG1 has one of the more interesting stories I've seen in an RPG, but it isn't told in a very good way. Advancing the game through picking up scrolls is a good example. It jerks you out of the moment, the chapter narratives tend to make more sense once you've read the scrolls but they activate before you can, and they rob the player of any sense of mystery and "Oh hey, I wonder if this letter we found is relevant to the larger plot or not." And then you've got chapter 6, where the game's big plot twist can be totally missed if you happen to do something that's totally logical.

I'm afraid I have to disagree. While the premise was interesting, the execution was pretty laughable. You keep finding all these scrolls which explicitly state what is going on and who's behind it all, and yet not one fucker in the entire game wants to take them off your hands or do anything with them. I wouldn't be at all surprised if a less experienced player ended the game with 20 scrolls in their stash and loathed the game for lack of inventory space. And this all provides the gigantic plot-hole of the issue of people suddenly turning on you out the blue without a moment's notice, literally hero to zero, all because no fucker read the scrolls they themselves sent you out to go find. Are you telling me Baldur's Gate doesn't have its own spy network? Isn't at all suspicious of everything you have highlighted thus far etc. Oh, dues ex machina, certain people get 'replaced' at the exact moment they are required to be... because... whatever convolution happened.

And yeah, the plot fucked up twice for me from doing 'logical' things. The first building you find in Baldur's Gate the city is the Rogue's Guild, although, of course, you have no idea that's what it is, you just naturally walk in because there's a door there, some guy asks you for a password, you fail, and everyone in the building turns red. They're rogues so no-one gives a shit and for a Lawful player it doesn't break any lawful rules to kill them all. Come chapter 7... "go talk to the Rogue lady, she has some great equipment for the final battle". Does she? I guess I'll never know (without looking it up, obv). As I suspected, it didn't matter anyway, Savvy dropped on first try all the same. And yes, in Chapter 6 I never got past the 4th floor of the Library. "Fight?" Sure, seems the best option to me. Oh, it's made the Fists angry? Why? Didn't they read any of my fucking scrolls? Have they not been keeping up? What about my max'ed out reputation? Counts for nothing. Ok.

Etc.

Edit: Also the 'plot' is for a grand elimination game similar to Highlander. Somehow that got lost amid some corny and convoluted trade war... where have I heard that before. They could have made loads of Baldur's Gates games, all called different things as you explore the Forgotten Realms in its entirety gradually defeating all the others. Nah, let's run around chasing companion quests instead, huh.

 

[Sigourn]

And yeah, the plot fucked up twice for me from doing 'logical' things. The first building you find in Baldur's Gate the city is the Rogue's Guild, although, of course, you have no idea that's what it is, you just naturally walk in because there's a door there, some guy asks you for a password, you fail, and everyone in the building turns red. They're rogues so no-one gives a shit and for a Lawful player it doesn't break any lawful rules to kill them all. Come chapter 7... "go talk to the Rogue lady, she has some great equipment for the final battle". Does she? I guess I'll never know (without looking it up, obv). As I suspected, it didn't matter anyway, Savvy dropped on first try all the same. And yes, in Chapter 6 I never got past the 4th floor of the Library. "Fight?" Sure, seems the best option to me. Oh, it's made the Fists angry? Why? Didn't they read any of my fucking scrolls? Have they not been keeping up? What about my max'ed out reputation? Counts for nothing. Ok.

Glad to know I wasn't the only one, hah. I did the same, entered the Rogue's Guild and murdered every single fucker. Then, muuuuch later, I talked with one NPC outside of the Elf Song tavern who told me the password (which at that point was worthless). Same with the Library: I didn't bother going to the upper floors before I was done with the Iron Throne members. What's funny is that Koveras tried to give me a ring and I denied it. From what I read on the Internet, it made no fucking difference to accept the ring or not: you are still charged with murder, and no one NPC cares.

On the topic of "polish": what I mean is polish from a technical perspective, usually. In The Witcher, a lot of NPCs move all the fucking time when talking to Geralt which makes them extremely unnatural. The camera angles are fucked quite often too when talking in a cutscene. Those two are lack of polish, things that anyone who bothered to pay attention to would have realized they were done poorly. Fallout 2, the ending slides are a mix of in-game screenshots, pre-rendered images and REAL LIFE PHOTOGRAPHS. It's garbage compared to Fallout's, where all ending slides were pre-rendered images.

It is so blatantly obvious little care went into these ending slides, as opposed to Fallout's or even New Vegas' (which were all done using in-game models).

 

[MilesBeyond]

I'm afraid I have to disagree. While the premise was interesting, the execution was pretty laughable.

But that's what I said...

 

[JDR13]

Please tell me that's sarcasm.

It may very well be sarcasm depending on your definition of "polish".

Or maybe depending on how many crpgs we've played.

I've found Western RPGs to be significantly more polished, but when I say "Western" I'm talking NA and Western Europe. I think you were simply referring to anything not a JRPG.

 

[JDR13]

And yeah, the plot fucked up twice for me from doing 'logical' things. The first building you find in Baldur's Gate the city is the Rogue's Guild, although, of course, you have no idea that's what it is, you just naturally walk in because there's a door there, some guy asks you for a password, you fail, and everyone in the building turns red. They're rogues so no-one gives a shit and for a Lawful player it doesn't break any lawful rules to kill them all. Come chapter 7... "go talk to the Rogue lady, she has some great equipment for the final battle". Does she? I guess I'll never know (without looking it up, obv). As I suspected, it didn't matter anyway, Savvy dropped on first try all the same. And yes, in Chapter 6 I never got past the 4th floor of the Library. "Fight?" Sure, seems the best option to me. Oh, it's made the Fists angry? Why? Didn't they read any of my fucking scrolls? Have they not been keeping up? What about my max'ed out reputation? Counts for nothing. Ok..

Eh..ok. Except you can take any lengthy crpg like BG and find at least a few examples of illogical stuff or plot holes. That doesn't overshadow the fact that most of the game was excellent.

 

[Sigourn]

Or maybe depending on how many crpgs we've played.

I've found Western RPGs to be significantly more polished, but when I say "Western" I'm talking NA and Western Europe. I think you were simply referring to anything not a JRPG.

I was referring mostly to North American RPGs. More especifically, North American RPGs from the late 90s and on. Or at least the ones I've played, it really feels like there was someone simply not present to point out a lot of silly flaws that could have been easily solved.

 

[JDR13]

Or maybe depending on how many crpgs we've played.

I've found Western RPGs to be significantly more polished, but when I say "Western" I'm talking NA and Western Europe. I think you were simply referring to anything not a JRPG.

I was referring mostly to North American RPGs. More especifically, North American RPGs from the late 90s and on. Or at least the ones I've played, it really feels like there was someone simply not present to point out a lot of silly flaws that could have been easily solved.

Well if you're going to go all the way back to the late 90s, I'd say the same applies to pretty much any RPG not just the ones made in NA.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

I'm afraid I have to disagree. While the premise was interesting, the execution was pretty laughable.

But that's what I said...

Kinda. What you said was that the story was interesting whereas I said the premise was interesting. You didn't express any justification for why you believe the story was interesting, you just made a blanket unqualified statement.

And yeah, the plot fucked up twice for me from doing 'logical' things. The first building you find in Baldur's Gate the city is the Rogue's Guild, although, of course, you have no idea that's what it is, you just naturally walk in because there's a door there, some guy asks you for a password, you fail, and everyone in the building turns red. They're rogues so no-one gives a shit and for a Lawful player it doesn't break any lawful rules to kill them all. Come chapter 7... "go talk to the Rogue lady, she has some great equipment for the final battle". Does she? I guess I'll never know (without looking it up, obv). As I suspected, it didn't matter anyway, Savvy dropped on first try all the same. And yes, in Chapter 6 I never got past the 4th floor of the Library. "Fight?" Sure, seems the best option to me. Oh, it's made the Fists angry? Why? Didn't they read any of my fucking scrolls? Have they not been keeping up? What about my max'ed out reputation? Counts for nothing. Ok..

Eh..ok. Except you can take any lengthy crpg like BG and find at least a few examples of illogical stuff or plot holes. That doesn't overshadow the fact that most of the game was excellent.

I haven't referenced any other RPGs for comparison in the post you quoted so whether any other games suffer from similar flaws is irrelevant to the point. Most of the game was not excellent, that was the whole point of my two lengthy posts explaining why. But sure, your unqualified blanket statement is a superb retort. JDR13 "the fact that most of the game was excellent". Bwhahahahaha. You might want to look up the word 'fact' in the dictionary...

 

[JDR13]

I haven't referenced any other RPGs for comparison in the post you quoted so whether any other games suffer from similar flaws is irrelevant to the point. Most of the game was not excellent, that was the whole point of my two lengthy posts explaining why. But sure, your unqualified blanket statement is a superb retort. JDR13 "the fact that most of the game was excellent". Bwhahahahaha. You might want to look up the word 'fact' in the dictionary...

Why would you need to have referenced other RPGs in your post? Do other RPGs not exist outside of your post?

I see reading comprehension isn't your strong point, so I'll try to choose my words a little more carefully when talking to you from now on.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

I haven't referenced any other RPGs for comparison in the post you quoted so whether any other games suffer from similar flaws is irrelevant to the point. Most of the game was not excellent, that was the whole point of my two lengthy posts explaining why. But sure, your unqualified blanket statement is a superb retort. JDR13 "the fact that most of the game was excellent". Bwhahahahaha. You might want to look up the word 'fact' in the dictionary...

Why would you need to have referenced other RPGs in your post? Do other RPGs not exist outside of your post?

I see reading comprehension isn't your strong point, so I'll try to choose my words a little more carefully when talking to you from now on.

Go fuck yourself you thick cunt.

 

[JDR13]

This Incendiary Device has a very short fuse... much like its penis.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

This Incendiary Device has a very short fuse... much like its penis.

Oh look, another insult. Haven't ever seen you resort to insults before content before, it's not at all what you do in every single 'conversation' you ever have... spastic.

Feel free to actually supply Citation Needed in any one of you're immensely and chronically butthurt replies, which will go on forever because you never will. You pea brained vegetable.

Here, let me help you out a bit:

forum


NOUN

• 1A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
  
  ‘we hope these pages act as a forum for debate’

What you do:

Battle rap
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Battle rap (also known as rap battling[1]) is a type of rapping that includes bragging, insults and boasting content.


Now, how about you begin by saying what is so fucking good about BG1's 'story'? Baring in mind the things other the people have already stated hence your contributions to the topic. How about you reference what games BG 1 has a better story than? It has a better 'story' than Pong does it? Well wow, hooray for BG 1, it has a better story than Pong, maybe they should have had that as their cover quote "Better sorty than Pong": JDR13

 

[JDR13]

Judging from the effort you just sank into that wall of text, it's pretty obvious who the butthurt one is here.

 

[JDR13]

Now, how about you begin by saying what is so fucking good about BG1's 'story'? Baring in mind the things other the people have already stated hence your contributions to the topic. How about you reference what games BG 1 has a better story than? It has a better 'story' than Pong does it? Well wow, hooray for BG 1, it has a better story than Pong, maybe they should have had that as their cover quote "Better sorty than Pong": JDR13

Interesting. I never said anything about BG's story. (Here we go with that reading comprehension issue again. You really need to work on that.). I only said that you can find illogical stuff in any lengthy RPG. I also said most of the game was excellent which is an opinion shared by many. You obviously disagree which is fine. It doesn't make you objectively wrong, it just makes you part of the minority.

Have you ever seen the movie Idiocracy? If not, you should watch it sometime. Interacting with you reminds me of it.

 

[octavius]

ID must be a woman. Only instead of selective hearing (s)he suffers from selective reading.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

Interesting. I never said anything about BG's story.

And yeah, the plot fucked up twice for me from doing 'logical' things. The first building you find in Baldur's Gate the city is the Rogue's Guild, although, of course, you have no idea that's what it is, you just naturally walk in because there's a door there, some guy asks you for a password, you fail, and everyone in the building turns red. They're rogues so no-one gives a shit and for a Lawful player it doesn't break any lawful rules to kill them all. Come chapter 7... "go talk to the Rogue lady, she has some great equipment for the final battle". Does she? I guess I'll never know (without looking it up, obv). As I suspected, it didn't matter anyway, Savvy dropped on first try all the same. And yes, in Chapter 6 I never got past the 4th floor of the Library. "Fight?" Sure, seems the best option to me. Oh, it's made the Fists angry? Why? Didn't they read any of my fucking scrolls? Have they not been keeping up? What about my max'ed out reputation? Counts for nothing. Ok..

Eh..ok. Except you can take any lengthy crpg like BG and find at least a few examples of illogical stuff or plot holes. That doesn't overshadow the fact that most of the game was excellent.

Yeah, just brush all conversation off as irrelevant and then say the game is overall excellent and then bullshit your ass off about how you didn't say anyfing. Fucking spastic. You reply to someone criticising the story and then you're 'big point' is that you weren't talking about the story. What an unbelievable fucking utter moron.

Next up... Ok sweetheart, what's so fucking "excellent" about it? Assuming you actually want to have a conversation rather than just writing "I don' give a crap wot you rite I fort veh game woz excellent HUR DUR".

... when words are not enough...

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

ID must be a woman. Only instead of selective hearing (s)he suffers from selective reading.

all I ever do when you show up is correct the shit you've misread, you know, like you wanting a DOOM mod in the top PC RPG lists... to name but one recent example. On the lists that you yourself have been responding to since they stared every week for half a year, and you still weren't getting it.

 

[MilesBeyond]

Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!