Baldur's Gate The Baldur's Gate Series Thread

[Wayward Son]

BTW, is druid in BGEE any different to a druid in BG?

TBH I don't know. I did mid to add in the Druid spells from IWD so my playthrough is different

 

[Grunker]

don't be like Grunker.

Huh? I agree with you, hence the brofist. I used to massively overrate it, though

EDIT: It's not bad at all, it's just not insane or cheesey (which, incidentally, is why I use it as opposed to a good deal of the spells you mentioned)

 

[Dzupakazul]

Energy Blades are easily dispellable, which makes them a bit annoying to use in an SCSII environment, to be honest.

Sequencers are also fun because you can use them before turning into a shapeshift form and you will keep the sequencer to release at any point you wish. Sword Spider with 18/00 Strength is really good.

 

[hell bovine]

I find energy blades overrated, tbh. In party you can get 10 apr on your fighters, only with better weapons, when soloing melf's meteors were enough for the few times my sorceress needed to whack things.

It's godly. And stop talking about solos. The post isn't about such basic wankery.

Godly for what exactly? By the time a mage in a party gets access to it, fighters can get 10 apr easily and with better weapons. A mage is wasted chucking shiny discs at enemies at this point in game, whether party or solo.

 

[Dzupakazul]

The thing about Energy Blades is that it's a really good spell, but we have to consider the opportunity cost of using it instead of other level 9-10 spells. I mean, I'd consider it from this standpoint: I don't think Energy Blades unlock any high-potential plays from your mage. It's a solid damage spell, but so are Dragon's Breath and Comet from the same level. Melf's Minute Meteors are available much earlier and they also pass through Absolute Immunity, and the HP of the characters that use that spell is often not that high (mages). Opportunity cost is one of the reasons I prefer Shadow Door to Imp. Invisibility sometimes, because Shadow Door is pretty much the same spell, but it occupies a less crowded spell slot.

Similarly, I'd say Lower Resistance is great in popular opinion because it generally unlocks a lot of useful and powerful abilities and synergies. You might argue whether "spells that unlock other spells" are a fun thing or not or if it's not easier to just have a party of brawlers, but it's at the very least not a bad spell to slap on an "end boss" / crucial enemy kinda deal; the priority target you might encounter in fights like Twisted Rune. I guess it also depends on playstyle; it might not be so useful if you just haste 4 martials and have them mop up.

Also, considering Time Stop overrated for party games is a little bit near-sighted, in my opinion - against enemies not immune to Time Stop (which is most of the rogues gallery), it basically means that your mage, likely your greatest artillery cannon in the game, has a massive amount of initiative. Time Stop's biggest weakness is that it gets fairly hard-countered by illusion spells - if your True Sight doesn't tick in against enemy's deceptions properly (you time it wrong), you might effectively waste a spell.

Oh, and Shapechange is also useful for Iron Golem and its massive immunity to magic (plus cheesy backstabs, I guess).

 

[hell bovine]

The thing about Energy Blades is that it's a really good spell, but we have to consider the opportunity cost of using it instead of other level 9-10 spells.

Which is why I consider it overrated. It competes with alacrity, chain contingency and planetars for spell slots, while at the same time offers nothing you can't substitute with fighters and improved haste or GWW, considering ToB is full of +5 weapons.

 

[MilesBeyond]

Best Arcane Spells - Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2

Mostly agree. You forgot Wish, though. For late game spells, nothing beats Wish. Memorize it twice. Use the first one to gain control of time. This gives you a double length Time Stop and Improved Alacrity - essentially four level 9 spells (or 2 lvl 9 and 2 lvl 10, whatever) for one slot. Beyond that, some enemies that are immune to Time Stop aren't immune to Wish Time Stop (though I can't remember who off hand). Blast through your entire arsenal while everyone else looks on helplessly. Then use your second Wish spell to have all your spells re-memorized. Rinse and repeat. Absurdly powerful. The really funny thing is that it's hopelessly nerfed compared to its P&P counterpart.

Another advantage of Mirror Image over Stoneskin is that it protects against Magic Missile and elemental damage on weapons. When I was a noob I'd often think Stoneskin was enough, only to have my spells still being disrupted all the time. Honestly the main advantage Stoneskin has over MI is convenience: Cast once when you wake from resting and you're good.

I absolutely agree that Web is god-tier. It's the real reason why Xan is the worst mage. That -2 to enemy saves vs his enchantment spells is really nice, don't get me wrong (guaranteed Blind, anyone?), but losing access to Web, Stinking Cloud, and (if you're playing EE or modded) Minor Spell Sequencer? Yeah, not ideal.

It also depends on context. For example, I would never consider True Sight indispensible, just because the Divine spell True Seeing does the exact same thing as a level 5 spell - and IMHO Clerics don't have as many quality level 5 spells to compete with it as Mages do level 6. Druids do, though.

 

[Dzupakazul]

I absolutely agree that Web is god-tier. It's the real reason why Xan is the worst mage. That -2 to enemy saves vs his enchantment spells is really nice, don't get me wrong (guaranteed Blind, anyone?), but losing access to Web, Stinking Cloud, and (if you're playing EE or modded) Minor Spell Sequencer? Yeah, not ideal.

For the reasons outlined in this very sentence I generally like Xan as a co-mage wielding a completely different spellbook and using it to compliment a crowd control heavy playstyle. Having a dedicated Charmer isn't a bad way to do fights.

And, well, you can also substitute Web with Sleep (which Xan supports) and Horror.

 

[MilesBeyond]

I absolutely agree that Web is god-tier. It's the real reason why Xan is the worst mage. That -2 to enemy saves vs his enchantment spells is really nice, don't get me wrong (guaranteed Blind, anyone?), but losing access to Web, Stinking Cloud, and (if you're playing EE or modded) Minor Spell Sequencer? Yeah, not ideal.

For the reasons outlined in this very sentence I generally like Xan as a co-mage wielding a completely different spellbook and using it to compliment a crowd control heavy playstyle. Having a dedicated Charmer isn't a bad way to do fights.

And, well, you can also substitute Web with Sleep (which Xan supports) and Horror.

Sleep becomes useless halfway through BG1, though, and Xzar has better luck with Horror. I do agree that he's a nifty Charmer. Give him the Ring of Wizardry and just spam Charm Person.

 

[Dux]

Just played through BG2 and have now finally come to the conclusion that I find it to be quite the tedious game.

I love BG1, I really do. For many years I also held the sequel in very high esteem. Now, however, it's different. I think the game is misguided on many levels. The real time combat just clashes so heavily with the clusterfuck high level encounters and there are very few characters in the game that I find to be... tolerable. It's just one man's opinion but I believe BG2 to be the beginning of the decline. Dragon Age, Mass Effect, NWN. It started with this game, at least as far as Bioware is concerned. The melodramatic dialogue, the self-absorbed rail-roaded narrative, the fanfic tier romances. The game just takes itself far too seriously. Most NPCs are so unbearably sanctimonious or drab that it literally eroded my soul. I wanted Xzar and Montaron back. They knew how to get the job done and when to keep their mouths shut. Valygar literally poked my shoulder as we were fighting a fucking demon, just because he needed to vent about something stupid and lame. "Ooh, I hate magic blah blah blah" That son of a bitch. Minsc shouting in my ear too that I need to do this and that. My right eye started to twitch and I wished he would just contract gerbil flu and die.

One highlight of my playthrough was the Underdark, however. I hate that fucking place. I infiltrated the Drow city and contacted Solaufein. We went to meet with the Mind Flayers. Solaufein got killed in the fight - I laughed - and the city went hostile on me. That works just fine. Modern RPGs would never allow something like that to happen. So I carved a bloody path through them all, whilst musing on the stupidity of it all. By the time I got to the endgame I was thoroughly bored and frustrated. To add to the farcical nature of it all, I summoned a Glabrezu to fight Irenicus. I moved my party away to organise my shit, also because I was tired of reloading because of Time Stops - which every high level mage in the game has: with the same identical sequence of spells cast (Meteor Shower, Protection from Evil, Gate, Maze etc). To my surprise, the Glabrezu kicked Jon's ass off screen and I facepalmed as I was transported to Hell while casting buffs and shit. Difficulty was on core as well.

I don't know. I guess I'm just a BG1 kind of guy. When I say BG1 I do mean it. None of that Tutu or EE bullshit.

 

[Wayward Son]

Valygar literally poked my shoulder as we were fighting a fucking demon, just because he needed to vent about something stupid and lame. "Ooh, I hate magic blah blah blah"

 

[Lacrymas]

BG1 and 2 are ...different. It's obvious they were created even in a different state of mind and intention. BG2 wants to be bigger, grander and more, for a lack of better word, AAA. BG1 is an adventure, BG2 is an epic (as in the literary genre, without any good or bad connotation). If I had to choose, I prefer BG1 as well, but not because BG2 is bad or anything, it's just unfocused. The writing is worse, however, because they thought they could write an epic, but it turns out writing the Illiad isn't such an easy task. A task they weren't really up to, but after it they got a reputation for writing (beats me why) and the decline started. Bioware games have always held up, ironically, on their gameplay and both games have that in spades.

 

[Dzupakazul]

I have the most fun in BG1 with fighting rival adventuring parties, mercenaries or assassin squads and BG2 has much, much more of all of those.

Also, generally, the "final boss" of each area (Firkraag, Shade Lord, etc.) is generally a more compelling, more fun fight - mostly because BG2 tosses more options your way. I generally prefer fighting those guys to dudes like Mulahey or Daevaorn.

 

[Melcar]

I have the most fun in BG1 with fighting rival adventuring parties, mercenaries or assassin squads and BG2 has much, much more of all of those.

Also, generally, the "final boss" of each area (Firkraag, Shade Lord, etc.) is generally a more compelling, more fun fight - mostly because BG2 tosses more options your way. I generally prefer fighting those guys to dudes like Mulahey or Daevaorn.

I think BG1 has more of those. BG2 is mostly against Undead mobs and Outsiders. The individual boss fights are more memorable in BG2, I'll give you that. Sure, you have group fights like Twisted Rune or the Guarded Compound, but those feel like fights against a single badass + his thugs.

Sent from my Redmi 4A using Tapatalk

 

[Dzupakazul]

I think BG1 has more of those.

Hm, maybe I should have just said "group fights" instead, I suppose. There's a great, distinctive "feel" to the "party on party" fights, though, and I did think of Twisted Rune as being a particularly high powered evil party. Sorta what I'd imagine an evil D&D party to be doing on the doorstep of epic levels; sitting underneath the city, only a rare stone can gain access to their fortress, and they have some malicious plans in mind.

BG1 does have plenty of fights like this, but I can think of only two truly memorable ones - the fight that breaks out when you interact with Gorpel Hind of the Merry Jesters (a full blown bar brawl!) and the fight against Drasus in the Cloakwood (quite tough, leaves Boots of Speed). I suppose I should also mention the fight with Slythe and Krystin, though it's pretty small-scale even if you can get some nasty burst damage to OHKO you.

Meanwhile, BG2 has Mencar Pebblecrusher (many people, myself included, thought that Brennan Risling wanting to leave the fight if it goes awry is a nice touch), Koshi and his shady conspirator friends (and the great Celestial Fury he leaves behind), those adventurers in the sewers that pack quite a wallop, Suna Seni (whose random encounter is ingrained in my memory not only because of Arbane +2, but a lot of mods screw around with that encounter, either by fleshing her out more as a character or making that fight tough as balls), you can fight Drizzt's entire party (although screw Melchior Harpell, Drizzt's items aren't even that good by the time you get them), and all of that on top of the aforementioned "group fights".

Besides, I think BG2, sorta like Fallout 2, kinda lets you do much more with your character, even if we argue that the game is inferior to its precedessor. Simply having 9 tiers of spells, tons of consumables and a very diverse cast of enemies with a lot of different immunities and methods to beat them helps. I feel like there's more fun theorycrafting to do with the BG2 repertoire.

 

[hell bovine]

Just played through BG2 and have now finally come to the conclusion that I find it to be quite the tedious game.

I love BG1, I really do. For many years I also held the sequel in very high esteem. Now, however, it's different. I think the game is misguided on many levels. The real time combat just clashes so heavily with the clusterfuck high level encounters and there are very few characters in the game that I find to be... tolerable. It's just one man's opinion but I believe BG2 to be the beginning of the decline. Dragon Age, Mass Effect, NWN. It started with this game, at least as far as Bioware is concerned. The melodramatic dialogue, the self-absorbed rail-roaded narrative, the fanfic tier romances. The game just takes itself far too seriously. Most NPCs are so unbearably sanctimonious or drab that it literally eroded my soul. I wanted Xzar and Montaron back. They knew how to get the job done and when to keep their mouths shut. Valygar literally poked my shoulder as we were fighting a fucking demon, just because he needed to vent about something stupid and lame. "Ooh, I hate magic blah blah blah" That son of a bitch. Minsc shouting in my ear too that I need to do this and that. My right eye started to twitch and I wished he would just contract gerbil flu and die.

If you accepted Minsc to be your companion, then it's your own fault. He and Jaheira are locked in those cages for a reason. That's practically a developer hint right there.

 

[Dux]

Who else is going to deal the 40 dmg crits with a Warblade +4 then? You? Jan Jansen?

 

[Modron]

Who else is going to deal the 40 dmg crits with a Warblade +4 then? You? Jan Jansen?

The silent NPC companion you made yourself?

 

[Kayerts]

Wonder how BG2 would play on the most pumped up power level possible - with Item Upgrade to balance out the most ridiculous stuff that Tactics / Improved Battles / Ascension has to offer. EE is now offering that new Legacy of Bhaal difficulty, though I'm also pretty certain EE still doesn't support many of those old WeiDu mods.

I ironmanned a BG trilogy run years ago with something near to that configuration. Uncapped character, Item Upgrade, SCS, Ascension, Tactics, some tougher battle mods, some silly things like Improved Asylum (what happens when someone tries to design an unbeatable enemy encounter but is also an idiot), Unholy Eclipse from Solaufein (entire enemy party gets a free time stop every other turn), and Improved Sendai (scripted abuse of multiple project images->Timestop->Improved Alacrity).

For the most part, the buffs to player power aren't that significant. The main bump from the XP remover is extra HP, which never stops being useful, and chain contingencies, which can be a get-out-of-jail-free card. Most 9th level spells take too long to cast to be practical in a fight. Most of the item upgrade buffs are convenience buffs, just due to the overwhelming amount of powerful items in the base game and the fact that you can't get most of them before Chapter 6. Notable exception: the acid katana from Tactics is very strong because of its decrease acid resistance on-hit ability and the fact that you can get it in Chapter 3. Overall, though, soloing a game like this is more about prepping to offset your loss conditions, and damage output isn't really an issue until late SoA/ToB endurance fights. (If you use the loot from Improved Asylum, that'd break the game, but you shouldn't do that.) Having extra spell slots can give you more breathing room on some long fights, but (a) you don't really need those and (b) you can also just hoard scrolls.

 

[Lilura]

Baldur's Gate 2: Triple Multi-Class Comparison - Fighter/Mage/Thief versus Fighter/Mage/Cleric (F/M/T vs. F/M/C)

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

You kinda lost me there. I don't really get the point of discussing pros and cons of builds when they finished the game. Aren't they over by now ? Then again, I'm not into crushing numbers for the sake of crushing numbers.

 

[Lilura]

1) It's not a build because the player doesn't build it: What it is, is set at chargen.
2) Lots of people solo the class to max out lvl sooner
3) 17 of the 23 pros/cons don't relate to end-game
4) The first 7 points made don't relate to end-game
5) End-game stats reveal a few things people don't know, or haven't documented

There are a few other bits of info in there that I doubt you'll find elsewhere. Sorry it wasn't your cup of tea.

 

[Lilura]

Baldur's Gate 2: Double Class Comparison - Fighter/Mage Dual-Class (Berserker & Kensai) versus Fighter/(Illusionist)Mage Multi-Class

Wayward Son Converting those PNGs to JPGs would reduce their file size by 85%...

 

[Wayward Son]

Baldur's Gate 2: Double Class Comparison - Fighter/Mage Dual-Class (Berserker & Kensai) versus Fighter/(Illusionist)Mage Multi-Class

Wayward Son Converting those PNGs to JPGs would reduce their file size by 85%...

Yeah I know, I already had those uploaded, so after I get through the ones I have uploaded, they'll be jpegs.

 

[razvedchiki]

What about the berserker/cleric dual?