Baldur's Gate The Baldur's Gate Series Thread

[roshan]

Luckily I haven't played DA:O and even vanilla Skyrim is in the end slightly more interesting than BG1 - at the very least it's less infuriating - you don't have to herd a bunch of suicidal lemmings there and you can actually find st6uff by looking for it rather than using your cursor as some sort of retarded divining rod.

LOL this is just stupid. Are you complaining that the isometric graphics ruined your IMMERSHAN!!!?

Yeah, for example you enter a mysterious warehouse and see around 2 barrels that are, mysteriously, actual containers and another pierdylion that mysteriously aren't.
Because mystary and shit.

How about having some consistency instead? If one container of given type is interactive, then all containers of given type are interactive and vice-versa.

It's abstraction. Theoretically your characters are searching the various containers, it's just the interactive ones that turned out to have something pertinent or useful. Having every container interactive is ridiculous, would be nothing but tedium to open them all only to find them empty.

Also, a barrel should only contain typical contents you could expect from it unless there exists a reason to suspect it contains something else.

What are the typical contents of a barrel, and which of these contents are pertinent to combat focused RPGs?

 

[octavius]

Why do you retards still discuss bad vanilla BG1 and Oblivion 15-20 years later?
The rest of the world used mods, enjoyed the games and never looked back.

 

[Mrowak]

Let's see - generic fantasyland, seemingly huge world mostly filled with repetitive generic wilderness, crappy quests with virtually no C&C, crap combat, massive amount of filler, counter-factually hailed as OMGBESTARPEEGEEEVAR!!!1 by many, arbitrary railroading (inability to enter locations despite no mechanical reason for that in BG1 - Cloakwood, scripting and essential NPCs in Oblivion).

Hey, bro. It was still good for the first game in the series. Back in the day I also thought it suffered from the general lack of wander and wonder (compared to, say, Might and Magic VI), but it laid solid grounds for the sequel. Besides, it is evident that the main problem of BG 1 was that the game that desperately needed more content, and to my mind it's hard to blame the devs for botching somewhat up with all the deadlines and stuff. Fortunately, over time the content was provided.

I really urge you to come back to this game with some quality mods. They really add a lot of enjoyment to it. Here you see the difference between BG and Oblivion: whereas with the former mods make the game somewhat sufferable, the ones for BG 1 (eg. BGTrilogy, Unfinished Business, Banter Packs, SCS) really raise it to the levels of Shadows of Amn.

 

[Elwro]

I am not tech savvy and I have no idea what most of what you just said means. However, have you tried the programm PlayOnLinux? (...)

Thanks, I'll try this!

 

[UglyBastard]

This. And the Gullykin map at least features the village, somewhat interesting layout AND, I think, a hostile party, so it's still near the upper end of the spectrum.

I actually found Gullykin more disappointing than a random wilderness map because it promises something but does not deliver. At least I know what to expect when I explore the twentieth unnamed wilderness (nothing).

And I fall for it every time. I just search every house. There has to be fucking something! Why would they make a detailed village without any content? Well, at least they succeeded in trolling me.

 

[roshan]

I think you go too far.

BG1 was bland, but it was nowhere near Oblivion bad even relatively speaking. IWD fits that bill more closely.

I know a lot of this usually comes down to personal preference, but what could possibly make IWD count as "Oblivion bad"?

 

[GarfunkeL]

But in the end most of the massive amount of maps were just empty. You explore them in the hope of finding something interesting and get disappointed over and over again. Many maps feature about one interesting encounter but you have to wade through a huge void of filler shit (trash mob combat or annoying architecture) to find it. And sometimes there isn't even something to find. Take for example the halfling village with the secret entrance to the Firewine ruins. It's a whole map with a seemingly interesting settlement that does feature no quests, no encounters, not even useful merchants, nothing. And it takes forever to explore because of the map layout.

Stop the lies, start the truths:
AR2700 - Imoen, Gorion, Xar and Montaron
AR2800 - Elminster, Ogre, Caravan, Deke & Bandits
AR2300 - Joia & Hobgoblins, Tarnesh
AR3300 - Kagain, Tiax, Garrick & Silke, Marl, Firebead, Spider house, Karlat, Tranzig
AR3200 - Kivan, Perdue's short sword, Thalantyr, Spider house
AR3800 - Ogrillons & Letter, Flaming Fist patrol, Treasure cave
AR4300 - Hobgoblin ambush (whoa, first map with only 1 non-random encounter)
AR4800 - Neira, Berrun, Minsc, Edwin, Noober, Oublek, Volo, Nimbul
AR4900 - Branwen, Gazib & Oompah, Zordral
AR4700 - Xvart village, Ursa cave, Borda
AR4600 - Neville, Laurel, Ogre BBQ, Jared & Bear
AR5100 - Bridge toll, Three caves, Dynaheir, Gnoll Chieftain
AR5400 - Prism, Daltok
AR5500 - Hafiz, Lena & Samuel
AR5200 - Ingot, Ludrug, Dryad & Lumberjacks
AR4200 - Drizzt & Gnolls, Half-Ogres, Teyngan, Lonely hobgoblin
AR3400 - Cattack & Hobgoblins, Vampiric Wolf
AR3900 - Hobgoblin for the boots quest, Icharyd, Ulcaster
AR3901 - a dungeon
AR5401 - a dungeon
AR5402 - a dungeon
AR5403 - a dungeon
AR5404 - a dungeon
AR5000 - Hentold & Revenant, Lamalha, Ghast tombs, Narcillisus & Oozes
AR3700 - Bassilus, Zargal, Melicamp
AR4400 - Arghain, Hulrik & cow, treasure cave, Ion & Dribben & Billy, Sarhedra & Ogres
AR5300 - Albert & dog, Vax, Larryl & Darryl & Darryl, Sendai
AR4000 - A group of assassins (and you claimed there is nothing here!), Gandolar (the quest to find the traitor)
AR5201 - a dungeon
AR4500 - Meilum, Carsa & Khark, Poe, Bentan
AR3100 - Shoal & Ogre Mage, Mad Arcand, Surgeon
AR3600 - Safana & Golem Cave, Sil & Sirines, Pallonia, Arkushule, Ardrouine & Wolves
AR4100 - Ba'ruk, Archeology dig, Laryssa & Captain Brage
AR1400 - Ajantis, Fishermen, Farmer Brun & Ankhegs, Gerde
AR0900 - Tenya, Nester's dagger, Scar, Quayle
AR3500 - Shar-Teel, Korax, Tamah, Mutamin, Kirian & Gang
AR3000 - Red Wizards, Fahrington & Ettercap
AR2900 - Teven & Bandits, Druids & Murder mystery
AR2400 - Viconia, Raiken, Lake bards
AR1900 - Tazok, Knott, Garclax, all the bandit lieutenants
AR2200 - Tesloi cloak, Aldeth & Druids, Coran
AR2100 - Tiber, Spider Nest
AR1600 - Shadow Druids, Arch Druid, Faldorn, Eldoth, Peter of the North,
AR1700 - Hamadryad, Wyvern Cave
AR1800 - Lakadaar & gang, Assassins, Barracks
AR1801 - a dungeon
AR1804 - a dungeon
AR1802 - a dungeon
AR1803 - a dungeon
AR0400 - Wenric & zombies (the second map with only 1 non-random encounter)

after that it's Baldur's gate itself and Candlekeep dungeons. So how about you shut your lying whore mouth when it's clear that you don't know what you're talking about.

Or Cloakwood forest. It gets slightly annoying after map XVII and further. Werewolf island is more of a chore as well (I hate it but my completionist itch forces me to do it every time).

Or the infamous mine levels. Nashkell. Cloakwood mine. I mean come on.

BG2 is so much better because it's maps are filled to the brim with interesting and fun stuff to find. You never feel like you have wasted 30 minutes of your life time after fully exploring a map.

Ah, an action-junkie with the attention span of a housefly. Should have known. God forbid a game doesn't throw explosions at your face every second, has to be shit. Maybe you should avoid RPGs in the future and just focus on Michael Bay movies? Should be more to your liking.

 

[DragoFireheart]

I know a lot of this usually comes down to personal preference, but what could possibly make IWD count as "Oblivion bad"?

Level scaling?

Well, in the sequel. Then again, BG2 has level scaling as well.

 

[Mrowak]

Stop the lies, start the truths:
AR2700 - Imoen, Gorion, Xar and Montaron
AR2800 - Elminster, Ogre, Caravan, Deke & Bandits
AR2300 - Joia & Hobgoblins, Tarnesh
AR3300 - Kagain, Tiax, Garrick & Silke, Marl, Firebead, Spider house, Karlat, Tranzig
AR3200 - Kivan, Perdue's short sword, Thalantyr, Spider house
AR3800 - Ogrillons & Letter, Flaming Fist patrol, Treasure cave
AR4300 - Hobgoblin ambush (whoa, first map with only 1 non-random encounter)
AR4800 - Neira, Berrun, Minsc, Edwin, Noober, Oublek, Volo, Nimbul
AR4900 - Branwen, Gazib & Oompah, Zordral
AR4700 - Xvart village, Ursa cave, Borda
AR4600 - Neville, Laurel, Ogre BBQ, Jared & Bear
AR5100 - Bridge toll, Three caves, Dynaheir, Gnoll Chieftain
AR5400 - Prism, Daltok
AR5500 - Hafiz, Lena & Samuel
AR5200 - Ingot, Ludrug, Dryad & Lumberjacks
AR4200 - Drizzt & Gnolls, Half-Ogres, Teyngan, Lonely hobgoblin
AR3400 - Cattack & Hobgoblins, Vampiric Wolf
AR3900 - Hobgoblin for the boots quest, Icharyd, Ulcaster
AR3901 - a dungeon
AR5401 - a dungeon
AR5402 - a dungeon
AR5403 - a dungeon
AR5404 - a dungeon
AR5000 - Hentold & Revenant, Lamalha, Ghast tombs, Narcillisus & Oozes
AR3700 - Bassilus, Zargal, Melicamp
AR4400 - Arghain, Hulrik & cow, treasure cave, Ion & Dribben & Billy, Sarhedra & Ogres
AR5300 - Albert & dog, Vax, Larryl & Darryl & Darryl, Sendai
AR4000 - A group of assassins (and you claimed there is nothing here!), Gandolar (the quest to find the traitor)
AR5201 - a dungeon
AR4500 - Meilum, Carsa & Khark, Poe, Bentan
AR3100 - Shoal & Ogre Mage, Mad Arcand, Surgeon
AR3600 - Safana & Golem Cave, Sil & Sirines, Pallonia, Arkushule, Ardrouine & Wolves
AR4100 - Ba'ruk, Archeology dig, Laryssa & Captain Brage
AR1400 - Ajantis, Fishermen, Farmer Brun & Ankhegs, Gerde
AR0900 - Tenya, Nester's dagger, Scar, Quayle
AR3500 - Shar-Teel, Korax, Tamah, Mutamin, Kirian & Gang
AR3000 - Red Wizards, Fahrington & Ettercap
AR2900 - Teven & Bandits, Druids & Murder mystery
AR2400 - Viconia, Raiken, Lake bards
AR1900 - Tazok, Knott, Garclax, all the bandit lieutenants
AR2200 - Tesloi cloak, Aldeth & Druids, Coran
AR2100 - Tiber, Spider Nest
AR1600 - Shadow Druids, Arch Druid, Faldorn, Eldoth, Peter of the North,
AR1700 - Hamadryad, Wyvern Cave
AR1800 - Lakadaar & gang, Assassins, Barracks
AR1801 - a dungeon
AR1804 - a dungeon
AR1802 - a dungeon
AR1803 - a dungeon
AR0400 - Wenric & zombies (the second map with only 1 non-random encounter)

after that it's Baldur's gate itself and Candlekeep dungeons. So how about you shut your lying whore mouth when it's clear that you don't know what you're talking about.

True bro, but let's face it, it felt like one encounter per area, because the content was not quite stellar. Say in zone AR1600 meeting a few generic angry druids and some random cardboard NPC with a penchant for wyverns, plus two nondescript RPCs, half of the people cannot recollect well enough to remember their names, was not very quality time. Part of the problem was that whatever combat encounters you had there they were extremely repetitive (Gibberlings/Wolves/Tasloi everywhere).

In general, the vanilla BG suffers from the lack of wonder. Most people were not very invested in "what happens next" like in, say, M&M6, where players looked forward to finding new trainers, Guilds, RPCs, (promotion) quests, dungeons with Aaaawesome loot or Goblins/Robbers/Mages/Ogres/Titans/Dragons. In other words, there is no quest hook.

Ah, an action-junkie with the attention span of a housefly. Should have known. God forbid a game doesn't throw explosions at your face every second, has to be shit. Maybe you should avoid RPGs in the future and just focus on Michael Bay movies? Should be more to your liking.

You know, that's a strawman, don't you? It's never been about the attention span, but simply for a valid, non-metagamey reason to roam around all those areas.

 

[hoverdog]

Why do you retards still argue with DraQ, immershun sperg extraordinaire?

fixed.

BG1 had great exploration.

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[Athelas]

I wonder if the NWN2 remake of Baldur's Gate could support a first-person view? http://www.nexusmods.com/neverwinter2/mods/794/?

So how about you shut your lying whore mouth when it's clear that you don't know what you're talking about.

Uh, he clearly said 'one interesting encounter' per map. You may find them interesting, but he might not. No accounting for taste and all that. Also, some of the things you listed are more akin to cutscenes, since they're unavoidable (Gorion's death, meeting Elminster, Imoen finding you, etc.).

 

[Jaesun]

And it did not have the worst offender of all times: The absolutely retarded level scaling that made the vanilla game unplayable even when you liked the rest of the content.

Baldurs Gate actually HAS level scaling.

But thankfully BioWare at the time knew how to it well. Unlike Bethesda.

 

[Rake]

Stop the lies, start the truths:
AR2700 - Imoen, Gorion, Xar and Montaron
AR2800 - Elminster, Ogre, Caravan, Deke & Bandits
AR2300 - Joia & Hobgoblins, Tarnesh
AR3300 - Kagain, Tiax, Garrick & Silke, Marl, Firebead, Spider house, Karlat, Tranzig
AR3200 - Kivan, Perdue's short sword, Thalantyr, Spider house
AR3800 - Ogrillons & Letter, Flaming Fist patrol, Treasure cave
AR4300 - Hobgoblin ambush (whoa, first map with only 1 non-random encounter)
AR4800 - Neira, Berrun, Minsc, Edwin, Noober, Oublek, Volo, Nimbul
AR4900 - Branwen, Gazib & Oompah, Zordral
AR4700 - Xvart village, Ursa cave, Borda
AR4600 - Neville, Laurel, Ogre BBQ, Jared & Bear
AR5100 - Bridge toll, Three caves, Dynaheir, Gnoll Chieftain
AR5400 - Prism, Daltok
AR5500 - Hafiz, Lena & Samuel
AR5200 - Ingot, Ludrug, Dryad & Lumberjacks
AR4200 - Drizzt & Gnolls, Half-Ogres, Teyngan, Lonely hobgoblin
AR3400 - Cattack & Hobgoblins, Vampiric Wolf
AR3900 - Hobgoblin for the boots quest, Icharyd, Ulcaster
AR3901 - a dungeon
AR5401 - a dungeon
AR5402 - a dungeon
AR5403 - a dungeon
AR5404 - a dungeon
AR5000 - Hentold & Revenant, Lamalha, Ghast tombs, Narcillisus & Oozes
AR3700 - Bassilus, Zargal, Melicamp
AR4400 - Arghain, Hulrik & cow, treasure cave, Ion & Dribben & Billy, Sarhedra & Ogres
AR5300 - Albert & dog, Vax, Larryl & Darryl & Darryl, Sendai
AR4000 - A group of assassins (and you claimed there is nothing here!), Gandolar (the quest to find the traitor)
AR5201 - a dungeon
AR4500 - Meilum, Carsa & Khark, Poe, Bentan
AR3100 - Shoal & Ogre Mage, Mad Arcand, Surgeon
AR3600 - Safana & Golem Cave, Sil & Sirines, Pallonia, Arkushule, Ardrouine & Wolves
AR4100 - Ba'ruk, Archeology dig, Laryssa & Captain Brage
AR1400 - Ajantis, Fishermen, Farmer Brun & Ankhegs, Gerde
AR0900 - Tenya, Nester's dagger, Scar, Quayle
AR3500 - Shar-Teel, Korax, Tamah, Mutamin, Kirian & Gang
AR3000 - Red Wizards, Fahrington & Ettercap
AR2900 - Teven & Bandits, Druids & Murder mystery
AR2400 - Viconia, Raiken, Lake bards
AR1900 - Tazok, Knott, Garclax, all the bandit lieutenants
AR2200 - Tesloi cloak, Aldeth & Druids, Coran
AR2100 - Tiber, Spider Nest
AR1600 - Shadow Druids, Arch Druid, Faldorn, Eldoth, Peter of the North,
AR1700 - Hamadryad, Wyvern Cave
AR1800 - Lakadaar & gang, Assassins, Barracks
AR1801 - a dungeon
AR1804 - a dungeon
AR1802 - a dungeon
AR1803 - a dungeon
AR0400 - Wenric & zombies (the second map with only 1 non-random encounter)

By that Standard the three forest areas in BG2 (you know, the empty ones that everyone hated because they were simple filler) are masterpieces of area design. They have more content than half the areas you listed.

 

[GarfunkeL]

True bro, but let's face it, it felt like one encounter per area, because the content was not quite stellar.

Oh you're absolutely correct - the quality of most encounters in BG1 was quite poor. I was just correcting the far too typical hyperbole claim that many/most/all/significant number of the wilderness maps are empty. He wasn't talking about the quality but made a clearly false statement about the amount of encounters.

You know, that's a strawman, don't you? It's never been about the attention span, but simply for a valid, non-metagamey reason to roam around all those areas.

Well, yes and no. I prefer BG1 over BG2 in this aspect, since in BG2 the wilderness maps don't feel like wilderness but a sort of a themepark where you can't walk further than twenty meters before bumping into an encounter of some kind. Same in Underdark - you don't get the feeling of isolation and desolation because there's traders and imprisoned mages and what ever else left and right.

By that Standard the three forest areas in BG2 (you know, the empty ones that everyone hated because they were simple filler) are masterpieces of area design. They have more content than half the areas you listed.

Learn to read, newfag. I wasn't making any kind of judgement call about the quality of area design.

 

[Lilura]

Part of the problem was that whatever combat encounters you had there they were extremely repetitive (Gibberlings/Wolves/Tasloi everywhere).

They're not everywhere. It just seems like that to you cuz you can't play the game. Lrn2 cast Sleep.

In general, the vanilla BG suffers from the lack of wonder.

No.

Most people were not very invested in "what happens next"

How do you know "most" people weren't invested, srsly?

 

[Lilura]

But thankfully BioWare at the time knew how to it well. Unlike Bethesda.

Yeah, this is true. Though it's almost undetectable unless you're looking for it. But from my exp BG1 only scales enemy number - it doesn't scale stats, change type or beef up AI (BG2 changes number and type, though the latter is rare).

 

[Jaesun]

Having played Baldurs Gate OVER SEVEN TIMES, yeah they do sometimes just up the enemy number, but on some maps they pick a different creature all together, based on your level (and possibly party size?).

It is such a damn shame no one has been able to read the damn encounter tables in the ARE files yet. :/

 

[octavius]

I bet DraQ could do it if he wanted to.

Spoiler

 

[Gragt]

fixed.

BG1 had great exploration.

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That’s a nice simulation of exploration in BG’s areas.

 

[UglyBastard]

Stop the lies, start the truths:

You even bolded the relevant part:

Many maps feature about one interesting encounter

interesting

It's not my problem if you can't comprehend what you read or find caves with some Xvarts particularly interesting. I certainly do not. I did not lie, you simply didn't understand what I said. Sorry for the wasted time of writing down the compendium of mediocre encounters in BG1.

Ah, an action-junkie with the attention span of a housefly. Should have known. God forbid a game doesn't throw explosions at your face every second, has to be shit. Maybe you should avoid RPGs in the future and just focus on Michael Bay movies? Should be more to your liking.

Sure bro, have fun in the Nashkell mines while I play BG2.

---

Baldurs Gate actually HAS level scaling.

I don't find level scaling generally outrageous. If it is done right (like rolling from a different encounter table depending on player level) I don't mind it that much. Meeting something that poses a threat is actually better than some worthless Kobolds, if you need to have those random trash encounters at least. But "enemy lvl always equals your lvl" is the most stupid adaptation of level scaling that I have seen so far.

 

[Lilura]

It's not my problem if you can't comprehend what you read or find caves with some Xvarts particularly interesting. I certainly do not.

You've had nightmares about xzarts cuz you didn't lrn2 cast Sleep.

Sure bro, have fun in the Nashkell mines while I play BG2.

"For the first time".

actually better than some worthless Kobolds, if you need to have those random trash encounters at least.

You mean those kobolds who one-shot you when you alt-tabbed to Google the location of the Friendly Arm Inn? Also, tell me about the commandos in Firewine...

 

[UglyBastard]

"lol u so n00b l2p"

I really don't see the need to reach new heights of butthurt here, I actually like the game (because of it's good parts) and certainly do not condemn you for enjoying mine levels and wilderness exploration. I am just not too fond of them myself.

afk, watching Transformers

 

[Mrowak]

They're not everywhere. It just seems like that to you cuz you can't play the game. Lrn2 cast Sleep.

Yes, because boring encounters and lack of variety are somehow fixed by spamming sleep repetitively. Excellent correlation. Because logic. Lrn2 read.

How do you know "most" people weren't invested, srsly?

*Out of the number frequenting these forums which I've been visiting for years. FFS, do you have to put disclaimer everywhere these days?

 

[Lilura]

Yes, because boring encounters and lack of variety are somehow fixed by spamming sleep repetitively. Excellent correlation. Because logic. Lrn2 read.

There is only one large pack of xvarts that gives noobs nightmares, and it requires a single casting of Sleep to turn the tide. The rest of the trashmobs are mostly stragglers. If you're bitching about those then that's because you can't use disablers, fireball wands and ranged weapons. There's really nothing all that tedious or repetitive about BG1 encounters if you know how to play the game. You just sound like a little bitch who can't handle a simple game.

*Out of the number frequenting these forums which I've been visiting for years. FFS, do you have to put disclaimer everywhere these days?

The Codex is a small sample, and borderline irrelevant when it comes to IE public perception. And I've read comments here from veterans of the game, which show they were indeed invested in the plot.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Even at their worst, no IE game is anywhere near as bad as console hiking simulator trash like Oblivion and Skyrim.

Having played Baldurs Gate OVER SEVEN TIMES, yeah they do sometimes just up the enemy number, but on some maps they pick a different creature all together, based on your level (and possibly party size?).

It is such a damn shame no one has been able to read the damn encounter tables in the ARE files yet. :/

But that's encounter scaling then (different than level scaling in my view), is it not? You don't start encountering xvarts decked in full plate mail and wielding vorpal swords, an xvart is still an xvart. Also as far as I know (I only play BG vanilla) both BGT and Tutu screw up enemy spawns compared to vanilla.