Baldur's Gate The Baldur's Gate Series Thread

[Average Manatee]

Start of the second game breaks my damn heart...all those wonderful items I worked so hard to collect, all gone! Couldn't you at least have felt me the Staff Mace Jon?!

You can actually keep the Staff Mace. Certain equipment imports into BG2, though the issue is that there's a hierarchy and certain items take precedence over others. So if you have the staff mace and want to keep it you also need to specifically NOT have one of the higher precedence items in your inventory.

https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Importing#Enhanced_editions

Importing already lets you start with better stats and higher XP level, so you have a pretty big advantage over a BG2 created character. And you start finding better equipment in BG2 than you could have gotten in BG1 pretty quickly.

 

[Brimruk]

Start of the second game breaks my damn heart...all those wonderful items I worked so hard to collect, all gone! Couldn't you at least have felt me the Staff Mace Jon?!

You can actually keep the Staff Mace. Certain equipment imports into BG2, though the issue is that there's a hierarchy and certain items take precedence over others. So if you have the staff mace and want to keep it you also need to specifically NOT have one of the higher precedence items in your inventory.

https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Importing#Enhanced_editions

Importing already lets you start with better stats and higher XP level, so you have a pretty big advantage over a BG2 created character. And you start finding better equipment in BG2 than you could have gotten in BG1 pretty quickly.

This was on the OG version, not EE, so no additional Djinn weapon options for me! No big deal because, as you call out, I’ll be getting better stuff soon (I was just so damn spoiled by my gauntlets of strength, staff mace, +2 shield from Durlag’s, etc)

 

[Average Manatee]

If you actually got all of your equipment with you'd probably just sell most of it and immediately buy something way better from a merchant in the city. In fact this is basically what happens in Siege of Dragonspear where your cash doesn't import but items do. Though it'd be interesting if the Beamdog did the Siege of Dragonspear to BG2 import method with some of the BG1 items (you don't get to start with them but get to find them dropped later or buy them). A few of the BG1 items have effects that aren't easily replicated in BG2, like the cloak of Balduran's magical resistance.

 

[Brimruk]

If you actually got all of your equipment with you'd probably just sell most of it and immediately buy something way better from a merchant in the city. In fact this is basically what happens in Siege of Dragonspear where your cash doesn't import but items do. Though it'd be interesting if the Beamdog did the Siege of Dragonspear to BG2 import method with some of the BG1 items (you don't get to start with them but get to find them dropped later or buy them). A few of the BG1 items have effects that aren't easily replicated in BG2, like the cloak of Balduran's magical resistance.

What’s the general consensus on SoD by the way? Is it a worthwhile purchase (primarily in terms of story and encounters)?

 

[Average Manatee]

Depends on how much you really want to play a semi-official semi-bearable mid level adventure in the BG engine. I've said before that it'd be actually OK if it was an IWD game where there's no story and you create your party, because it's all of the story parts and the disappointingly small selection and overall awful joinable NPC cadre that brings it down a lot. At full price its a bad joke though. It's a $5 level expansion at best considering BG1EE and BG2EE are $20 each.

 

[Brimruk]

Depends on how much you really want to play a semi-official semi-bearable mid level adventure in the BG engine. I've said before that it'd be actually OK if it was an IWD game where there's no story and you create your party, because it's all of the story parts and the disappointingly small selection and overall awful joinable NPC cadre that brings it down a lot. At full price its a bad joke though.

Thanks, sounds like a ‘pick up on a 80/90% discount’ kind of thing if that (my backlog is probably big enough that I should make my way through the actually good games first)

 

[Average Manatee]

Should also mention that in deciding what it's worth, keep in mind that they made absolutely zero new art assets for monsters and instead just stole them from IWD and pretended they were new. Including the final boss. Very lazy low effort cash grab. There's new art for the areas (which suffer in quality compared to original BG1/BG2 areas but at least are better than the new BG1EE/BG2EE areas), and obviously new dialog (which mostly feels low effort and incongruent with the BG1/BG2 dialog), but that's it. And of course the reason for the awful selection of BG1 NPCs available to recruit is because Beamdog was limited in who they could get back to record new dialog for. It's a very haphazard selection where you'll undoubtably be pissed that 2 or 3 of your favorites didn't make the cut and your party is basically forced to a small handful of compositions once you've got your thief/fighter/mage/cleric bases covered.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

If you actually got all of your equipment with you'd probably just sell most of it and immediately buy something way better from a merchant in the city. In fact this is basically what happens in Siege of Dragonspear where your cash doesn't import but items do. Though it'd be interesting if the Beamdog did the Siege of Dragonspear to BG2 import method with some of the BG1 items (you don't get to start with them but get to find them dropped later or buy them). A few of the BG1 items have effects that aren't easily replicated in BG2, like the cloak of Balduran's magical resistance.

What’s the general consensus on SoD by the way? Is it a worthwhile purchase (primarily in terms of story and encounters)?

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/siege-of-dragonspear-was-actually-ok.138560/

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

What’s the general consensus on SoD by the way? Is it a worthwhile purchase (primarily in terms of story and encounters)?

Garbage. If you want to basically pay for a giant mod, go ahead and get it. But that's all it is, an elaborate mod - complete with the Mary Sue characters and other fanfic writing tropes, and ill-designed encounters that break lore and over-level your characters.

Don't get me wrong, it's cool to see new areas in a game you've been playing for 20 years, but it's a story that didn't need to be told, and it's told badly.

If you have EE, it might be required for its BGT equivalent though. I forget. Get it on sale, if you must.

 

[Brimruk]

Thanks all, all very helpful feedback!

Not having certain companions due to voice acting issues is goddamn embarrassing though (if you can’t already tell, voice acting and romances are two things I could do without)

 

[Average Manatee]

Yeah. They did get the sort of big name canonical npcs in Jaheira, Khalid, Minsc, and Dynaheir, along with Edwin and Viconia (without which I'm sure players would riot). But Imoen is out of action for plot related reasons (I think they needed a reason for her to stay safe and away from the plot because of their stupid BG2 foreshadowing crap), and your only thief that isn't a beamdog cringefest is Safana, and Edwin still conflicts with Dynaheir and Minsc, so you can see how your party is super constrained. All the other BG1 npcs are absent and only Beamdog's cast remains, so no fun people like Monty or Kagain or Xan, or cool NPCs like Alora or Tiax who appeared so late in BG1 that you hardly used them but which would be great to see in SoD.

Even today I find the main reason to replay BG1 is to play with different NPC configurations since there's a large interesting cast of characters, especially with mods that move a lot of the late game BG1 NPCs to be available earlier on. Missing out on that is a huge mistake on Beamdog's part. A big problem was that they decided to go with a BG2-like system where all of the NPCs had their own quests and lots of dialog to comment on each major plot point like in BG2, rather than BG1 style where NPCs are more barebones. I'm not sure whether not having a bigger cast was because they just couldn't get the old voice actors, or they weren't willing to spend enough to cover all the lines they would have needed. Either way it was a bad decision.

I'd actually be interested if anyone knew of a mod that allowed you to import the other BG1 OG companions into SoD. My waifu Alora might make it bearable.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

I think that Beamdog took the worst part of the start of BG2 (which was the fact that the devs forced Jaheria, Khalid, Imoen and Minsc as canon party members), and instead of ignoring it, or fixing it by making it optional somehow, they treated it like a plot hole that needed to be filled.

So, now the explanation for why Jaheira et al are there regardless is because she's there when Imoen was coming to rescue you.

It's dumb.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

You know, ever since Beamdog implemented the relatively worthless Dragon Disciple kit for sorcerers, I've always felt there should be a dragon shape spell for them at high level, but surprisingly, no one had made one that I could find.

Until now. Turned out that I needed to look on Beamdog's forums, not Gibberlings or Spellhold.
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/31888/dragon-shape-for-dragon-disciples

Actually, there've been relatively few custom spell mods in general, so I think this deserves a link, as well as a backup of the mod file here.

I tested it, and it seems to work, adding the innate ability at level 20. I think it's useable once per day.

It's not as overpowered as you might assume, either. Just gives you dragon's claws, 23 STR and 10 DEX. You keep your innate skills and lose the ability to cast magic until you shift back.

Nice job, random modder from 2014.

 

[Brimruk]

Yeah. They did get the sort of big name canonical npcs in Jaheira, Khalid, Minsc, and Dynaheir, along with Edwin and Viconia (without which I'm sure players would riot). But Imoen is out of action for plot related reasons (I think they needed a reason for her to stay safe and away from the plot because of their stupid BG2 foreshadowing crap), and your only thief that isn't a beamdog cringefest is Safana, and Edwin still conflicts with Dynaheir and Minsc, so you can see how your party is super constrained. All the other BG1 npcs are absent and only Beamdog's cast remains, so no fun people like Monty or Kagain or Xan, or cool NPCs like Alora or Tiax who appeared so late in BG1 that you hardly used them but which would be great to see in SoD.

Even today I find the main reason to replay BG1 is to play with different NPC configurations since there's a large interesting cast of characters, especially with mods that move a lot of the late game BG1 NPCs to be available earlier on. Missing out on that is a huge mistake on Beamdog's part. A big problem was that they decided to go with a BG2-like system where all of the NPCs had their own quests and lots of dialog to comment on each major plot point like in BG2, rather than BG1 style where NPCs are more barebones. I'm not sure whether not having a bigger cast was because they just couldn't get the old voice actors, or they weren't willing to spend enough to cover all the lines they would have needed. Either way it was a bad decision.

I'd actually be interested if anyone knew of a mod that allowed you to import the other BG1 OG companions into SoD. My waifu Alora might make it bearable.

No big tittie trad gf (Branwen)??! Absolutely horrific. Also I know I bitched about Khalid's STR, but I do enjoy how all of the BG1 companions have such a varied stat distribution. I'm already thinking on who I'd like to take on subsequent playthroughs (and ignoring the idea of planning a CHARNAME as that's too stressful)

Also remind me to never read RPG reviews from places besides the Codex:

I can’t remember a single dungeon in Baldur’s Gate. At all.

I know there aren't a lot of them, but Durlag's Tower is so damn memorable (Firewine too, for all of the wrong reasons)

 

[NecroLord]

Yeah. They did get the sort of big name canonical npcs in Jaheira, Khalid, Minsc, and Dynaheir, along with Edwin and Viconia (without which I'm sure players would riot). But Imoen is out of action for plot related reasons (I think they needed a reason for her to stay safe and away from the plot because of their stupid BG2 foreshadowing crap), and your only thief that isn't a beamdog cringefest is Safana, and Edwin still conflicts with Dynaheir and Minsc, so you can see how your party is super constrained. All the other BG1 npcs are absent and only Beamdog's cast remains, so no fun people like Monty or Kagain or Xan, or cool NPCs like Alora or Tiax who appeared so late in BG1 that you hardly used them but which would be great to see in SoD.

Even today I find the main reason to replay BG1 is to play with different NPC configurations since there's a large interesting cast of characters, especially with mods that move a lot of the late game BG1 NPCs to be available earlier on. Missing out on that is a huge mistake on Beamdog's part. A big problem was that they decided to go with a BG2-like system where all of the NPCs had their own quests and lots of dialog to comment on each major plot point like in BG2, rather than BG1 style where NPCs are more barebones. I'm not sure whether not having a bigger cast was because they just couldn't get the old voice actors, or they weren't willing to spend enough to cover all the lines they would have needed. Either way it was a bad decision.

I'd actually be interested if anyone knew of a mod that allowed you to import the other BG1 OG companions into SoD. My waifu Alora might make it bearable.

No big tittie trad gf (Branwen)??! Absolutely horrific. Also I know I bitched about Khalid's STR, but I do enjoy how all of the BG1 companions have such a varied stat distribution. I'm already thinking on who I'd like to take on subsequent playthroughs (and ignoring the idea of planning a CHARNAME as that's too stressful)

Also remind me to never read RPG reviews from places besides the Codex:

I can’t remember a single dungeon in Baldur’s Gate. At all.

I know there aren't a lot of them, but Durlag's Tower is so damn memorable (Firewine too, for all of the wrong reasons)

That cave near the Lighthouse and on the Coast with those Flesh Golems.

 

[Storyfag]

I really, really enjoyed the ruins of Ulcaster's school. And the Nashkel mines had really great atmosphere. If you think about it, dungeons were plentiful in BG1.

 

[Brimruk]

Yeah I guess I didn't express myself well saying there aren't a lot of them

Second the Ulcaster's school comment - that was the first one I did and I agree it was a lot of fun!

All of them were fun actually, except for Firewine (I gave it two tries and noped the fuck out). Love the Ankheg caves, having to lure out one at a time and make sure someone's always in melee range

 

[NecroLord]

Cloakwood mine is also great. Really nasty for an unprepared party.

 

[Average Manatee]

Aside from Durlag's most BG1 dungeons are either just uneventful or excessively tedious IMO.

relatively worthless Dragon Disciple kit for sorcerers

It's good though?

+5 AC is huge and makes you tankier than any other non-AC boosting kit when you cast spirit armor. Fire resistance is nice and you can stack more to heal in fire spells, including your own AoEs. d6 instead of d4 HP is a big improvement. When you cast mirror image/stoneskin you are pretty much invincible, the only class that can do it better is the Blade and they have to give up half of the Mage spell book to get that further +5 AC (along with not being able to move and a restricted number of times per day you can use defensive spin).

Losing 1 spell per day doesn't mean much since you can rest anywhere and you still have as many spells per day as an unkitted mage. Given Sorcerer's greater flexibility you'll probably still be resting most of the time to restore your other mage's spell slots rather than your own because they run dry of useful stuff sooner (or ditto for the clerics). You don't lose out in # of spells known.

 

[Brimruk]

Holy shit: 5d8 breath weapon, -2 AC, 50% FR and 18 spells per day (instead of 22) in BG + Tales

 

[Average Manatee]

The breath weapon is kind of a meme at high levels since it doesn't scale well. Would much rather have 9d6 fireball rather than a 5d8 breath weapon, considering the former is also easier to aim. But it is monstrous at level 3 when you get it, 3d8 damage when mages don't get their first level 3 spell slot for fireball until level 5. That's like a quarter of BG1 where Dragon Disciple has an exceptional AoE mob clearing spell that no one else can replicate. Very satisfying to roast kobolds with when SCS spawns 20 of them.

 

[NecroLord]

The original Baldur's Gate shouldn't be played with class kits.
They are either completely useless or vastly overpowered(hello Berserker, Cavalier, Inquisitor).
Game wasn't made with such kits in mind.

 

[Brimruk]

Oh it's once per day? Nevermind, that is kind of weak

The original Baldur's Gate shouldn't be played with class kits.
They are either completely useless or vastly overpowered(hello Berserker, Cavalier, Inquisitor).
Game wasn't made with such kits in mind.

Personally I'd use them only for an EE install with Tactics to try out some fun new combos. Currently thinking of taking either a Sorc or a Shapeshifter through it (fixes for the latter have been installed)

 

[NecroLord]

Personally I'd use them only for an EE install with Tactics to try out some fun new combos. Currently thinking of taking either a Sorc or a Shapeshifter through it (fixes for the latter have been installed

Oh, yeah. With both Tactics and Scs installed, gaining access to kits is pretty much mandatory. They can make the difference between life and a very painful death. Seriously, that shit is insane in its difficulty.

 

[Average Manatee]

The original Baldur's Gate shouldn't be played with class kits.
They are either completely useless or vastly overpowered(hello Berserker, Cavalier, Inquisitor).
Game wasn't made with such kits in mind.

People keep saying this but it really isn't true. In most cases the strongest classes are still multiclass characters. Kits were added in specifically to bridge the gap between single class and multiclass. Kits only become overpowering either at very high levels or by dualling in BG2 (where you get strong kit abilities at level 7-13ish and the inflated XP gains mean you still get your main class back quickly).

Archer: Amazing kit, 10/10 actually destroys all the competition in shooting things. Legitimately a little bit imbalancing if you roll an elf with 19 dex. Still you don't even get a bonus until level 3 and it only caps at +2 at level 6.
Berserker: Great kit, but arguably only even with a Fighter/Cleric once the latter starts getting level 2 and 3 spells. Until you get Grandmastery in BG2, or if you abuse dualling to get it in BG1, it's not the best melee character available.

Every other kit is basically a joke compared to the multiclass options available. Hell, half of them still suck compared to single class options. Paladins and Paladin kits aside from inquisitor are just bad fighters and inquisitors basically only become relevant when playing SCS anyway. Barbarian, Wizard Slayer and Kensai are basically just bad fighters. Wild mage gets nothing useful. Thief kits are a joke compared to any multiclass. If you consider Sorcerers to be a mage kit then they are a little bit OP because they can get certain spells earlier than mages can find them but that's about it.

Also you only get to make one player character with a kit. Even choosing the best kits available, it's not moving the power needle a ton compare to what your party companion choices are. Unless you use the SCS option to start giving kits or new classes to party companions (which I do, because its fun and I've played BG1 enough that sometimes I want to make Imoen an Assassin or Shadowdancer).