Baldur's Gate The Baldur's Gate Series Thread

[Grunker]

Debating between a BG1 vanilla playthrough or a BGEE SCS playthrough.

I'm not exactly a guru at the combat but I've played the game a few times and am pretty comfortable with BG1 combat at the very least (the spell shit doesn't get complicated until BG2 - as you are all aware)

If I went BGEE route I'd add a few things like 75% XP and *maybe* BG1NPC.

For SCS: Do you guys tend to recommend any of the tactical encounters and/or shit like improved spiders or do you stick to the AI improvements alone?

SCS has scalable difficulty now, so you can install everything and then turn down or up the difficulty as you please.

 

[Sarathiour]

I skip imrpoved spider, because I dislike playing around free action.

 

[BruceVC]

Debating between a BG1 vanilla playthrough or a BGEE SCS playthrough.

I'm not exactly a guru at the combat but I've played the game a few times and am pretty comfortable with BG1 combat at the very least (the spell shit doesn't get complicated until BG2 - as you are all aware)

If I went BGEE route I'd add a few things like 75% XP and *maybe* BG1NPC.

For SCS: Do you guys tend to recommend any of the tactical encounters and/or shit like improved spiders or do you stick to the AI improvements alone?

I just played BG1 for the first time a couple of weeks ago and Im also not a combat guru. I didnt install SCS because its designed to make combat more challenging and more ruleset realistic. I wouldnt recommend it for casual gamers but I did install the BG1 NPC and Romance mods and other more cosmetic mods like additional NPC

Lots of the people on this thread are hardcore veterans of IE games so SCS makes sense but its not necessary if you not a combat guru and dont need that combat challenge

 

[Seari]

You can't not recommend something if you haven't even tried it. You basically have no clue.

 

[Taim]

...

SCS has scalable difficulty now, so you can install everything and then turn down or up the difficulty as you please.

I know that much. I'm planning on playing on whatever difficulty has long term buffs set up (Improved?). In my years lurking in this thread I've heard conflicting reports of how much bullshit DavidW adds with his custom encounters. (I.e. Bandit battle good, Sarevok battle bad).

Basically I like the ability of not steamrolling everything I come across but also don't want to have to reload a fight TOO many times and pray for RNG or cheese the fuck out of the game.

I skip imrpoved spider, because I dislike playing around free action.

This kind of stuff is really what I'm interested in.

...

I just played BG1 for the first time a couple of weeks ago and Im also not a combat guru. I didnt install SCS because its designed to make combat more challenging and more ruleset realistic. I wouldnt recommend it for casual gamers but I did install the BG1 NPC and Romance mods and other more cosmetic mods like additional NPC

Lots of the people on this thread are hardcore veterans of IE games so SCS makes sense but its not necessary if you not a combat guru and dont need that combat challenge

I mean I've been playing the game off an on for 20 years or so. I'm not a god but I'd like a little more spiciness to the combat where you can't just sleepwalk through it (especially in BG1). Additionally EE makes BG1 even easier and I hate how blurry vanilla BG1 looks for me (even with integer scaling) so if I'm gonna use BG1EE I'd like to at least make it somewhat challenging. I've actually played this with SCS in the past but I didn't get very far but I was very happy with the better AI (at least for non-mages - didn't fight too many mages so I can't speak to them).

The absolute horrible bullshit of Kahrk and the Nashkel Carnival mage seems to be the exception rather than the rule - so I can deal with it.

To give a bit more context to what *I* like in a fight - I thought the Nashel mines kobold fight was just annoying enough to be fun and challenging. Think I lost montaron to that fight. It felt like a cool mini-boss fight to an otherwise relatively underwhelming dungeon crawl.

Anyway - are there any particularly egregious buffs to creatures or bullshit end of chapter fights that are just...not fun?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

scs is anti-fun therefore it's a bad mod.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Taim What's your problem with the carnival mage? That's a pretty thrilling fight.

 

[Taim]

Taim What's your problem with the carnival mage? That's a pretty thrilling fight.

I brought this up a while ago in one of the 7 semi-active BG threads - hopefully we avoid the 4 page bitchfest about the best play to play roleplaying games this time.

My particular brand of faggotry is roleplaying over min-maxing. It has the added benefit of making the game more challenging.

I'm sure the fight itself is great but the fight is incredibly out of place. Where as in non-SCS your team of level 1 or level 2 adventurers can kill the mage with enough grit, in SCS you get assraped almost immediately. It is annoying for me to roleplay a group of adventurers who just CANT SET FOOT IN TENT #7 and ONLY tent #7 for some inexplicable reason.

With regards to game design I love challenges and dangerous shit in not-so-dangerous areas but one of two things need to happen:

1. Before engagement: It needs to be telegraphed in some way that this is dangerous.
2. During engagement: You need to have a reasonable way to escape once you realize it is dangerous.

This encounter does option 3:
3. You die and reload and don't go in there.

I don't like that school of design.

I believe the argument I made at the time was - I generally don't agree with DavidW treating Bioware's assignment of mage levels as gospel for the difficulty of the fight. Bioware gave mages higher levels in general because thats the only way mages can be reasonably challenging given the limitations of AD&D and the engine's AI.

Admittedly, I think DavidW doing that was the BEST approach for an automatic way of updating all the enemies, it's what I would have done, but I would have hand fixed the more egregious fights that the automated approach really fucked up (i.e. Karhk).

In SCS's defense - I noticed the newest version actually has a component that makes a RP friendly way to avoid getting assfucked by Karhk right away - which is something at least. Alas, the guy in the carnival remains an insta-kill for the party.

 

[Average Manatee]

I believe the argument I made at the time was - I generally don't agree with DavidW treating Bioware's assignment of mage levels as gospel for the difficulty of the fight. Bioware gave mages higher levels in general because thats the only way mages can be reasonably challenging given the limitations of AD&D and the engine's AI.

Admittedly, I think DavidW doing that was the BEST approach for an automatic way of updating all the enemies, it's what I would have done, but I would have hand fixed the more egregious fights that the automated approach really fucked up (i.e. Karhk).

I agree with the sentiment, but DavidW has handfixed a number of fights. Bioware obviously jacked up the level of some enemies just so they wouldn't immediately get rekt by level-limited spells like Sleep. Maybe mention the carnival mage fight to him? I think his only justification for Karhk being optional is due to how out of the place he is. He did "hand fix" Karhk who used to be way more busted than he is now (and there's an added katana which is the best in the game).

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Taim Thanks for the thoughtful response. Do keep in mind that the player can leave the tent immediately. Especially in original BG, NPCs could not cross any kind of loading zone. I also think you can actually avoid a fight with him too, you just have to insist that you want nothing to do with what's going on. I believe he kills the witch and walks out. Very anticlimactic. Khark is definitely a hellish fight not made better by SCS. In earlier editions it was OK, but later editions made changes to Khark that were too much. Also, Carsa is a stark raving mad magic-user threatening to open a jar that will kill everyone. The PC is given many chances to bow out. Curiosity kills the cat sometimes. It's an epic fight that's hard to walk away from unscathed, but far from impossible to beat. I'm OK with a player getting what they ask for, good and hard.

 

[Taim]

Fair points from both of you.

To reward this spirit of good-natured discussion, how about you guys tell me which components you use in your typical SCS installs?

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

I replay BG for nostalgia. It's not challenging, but it's also not annoying. SCS isn't that challenging either ftmp. But it can be annoying.

I think it's worth a playthrough once or twice, until you've had your fill of over-tuned battles.

 

[BruceVC]

I replay BG for nostalgia. It's not challenging, but it's also not annoying. SCS isn't that challenging either ftmp. But it can be annoying.

I think it's worth a playthrough once or twice, until you've had your fill of over-tuned battles.

Edgy SCS doesnt enhance or change any Romance arcs from what I can see so dont use it for that in BG1

 

[BruceVC]

Sadly Im reaching the end of my BG2 EE journey, I have just killed the nefarious Bodhi and taken her black heart from her remains. I enjoyed killing her finally ..she deserved to die

Highlights of the game so far include

• The Underdark experience : Great fun, I completed several side quests that included freeing the souls of trapped insane people and rescued the Svirfneblin boy and killing the despicable Illithid Master Brain. I also let Solaufein live which worked out nicely for me when he provided fake Silver Dragon eggs and I betrayed both Matron Mother Ardulace and Phaere and gained some nice XP and items. I also had a great Romance interlude with Phaere
• After leaving the Underdark I went to settle the score with Firkraag and that was an epic battle which I won on the third attempt

I wish they had included more Underdark races and exploration but its a memorable part of the game

I am now on my way to Suldanessellar with the lantern, exciting times

 

[Grunker]

I am now on my way to Suldanessellar with the lantern, exciting times

Endgame is BG2's weakest part, but it does have the best story beat of the series with the conversation between Ellesime and Irenicus. Wonderfully voiced and written.

 

[NecroLord]

I am now on my way to Suldanessellar with the lantern, exciting times

Endgame is BG2's weakest part, but it does have the best story beat of the series with the conversation between Ellesime and Irenicus. Wonderfully voiced and written.

David Warner voiced Irenicus. He died this year on 24 July of cancer...

Great actor. As you can see he is very competent at playing villainous roles.
Here he plays Gul Madred,the cardassian interrogator in charge of extracting information from Picard.

 

[Grunker]

Yep, Warner was a legend. Used too little for voicework, IMHO

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

The guy made BG2 for me. Not his name, but his acting. This was before the days of high quality voice overs in every western game. Or maybe around the time it started to be more common to have better acting using celebs. Actually, a lot of the voiceover work in BG2 was unusually stellar.

After that, I could recognize Warner anywhere.

Here he plays Gul Madred,the cardassian interrogator in charge of extracting information from Picard.

He also played Chancellor Gorkon in Star Trek 6, but that wasn't a villain role. And the Master Control program in the original TRON.

Side note that Michael Dorn (Worf) is clearly uncredited in BG2's Spellhold dream sequence.

 

[NecroLord]

And Morpheus in Fallout.

Irenicus is one of the best villains in any RPG if you ask me.

 

[Jarpie]

I am now on my way to Suldanessellar with the lantern, exciting times

Endgame is BG2's weakest part, but it does have the best story beat of the series with the conversation between Ellesime and Irenicus. Wonderfully voiced and written.

David Warner voiced Irenicus. He died this year on 24 July of cancer...

Great actor. As you can see he is very competent at playing villainous roles.
Here he plays Gul Madred,the cardassian interrogator in charge of extracting information from Picard.

He was also great in Time After Time as Jack the Ripper.

 

[Sarathiour]

Anyway - are there any particularly egregious buffs to creatures or bullshit end of chapter fights that are just...not fun?

The fight at the top of the Iron Throne Headquarter skew toward the bullshit side, not impossible, but pretty annoying for a variety of reason, I could my post again.

Did not have any difficulties in carnival btw, but it's maybe because I did not crank the mage slider to the max. Running after some hasted asshole spamming melf's meteor is not really fun for me.

 

[octavius]

The fight at the top of the Iron Throne Headquarter skew toward the bullshit side, not impossible, but pretty annoying for a variety of reason, I could my post again.

One of my favourite fights in the game.
To me the only truly bullshit fight in BG1 using SCS is the one against Khark.

 

[Sarathiour]

I think this fight is good showcase of what's good and what's wrong with SCS.

 

[BruceVC]

I completed BG2 SoA and my battles with Irenicus were very memorable, the first battle with him at the Tree of Life was very tough and I died at least 5-6 times before I adopted a winning combat strategy that included

• Spells like Breach and Piece Magic to weaken his magic defenses
• Spells like Chaotic Commands and Death Ward to protect my party
• I used summoning spells like Mordenkainen's Sword to distract him
• I ran away when he used AOE spells like Ice Storm
• My fighters used potions like Fire Giant strength to enhance their combat effectiveness

And then in Hell I initially ran away so I could focus on his summoned monsters and then I changed into the Slayer to kill him, I very seldom use the Slayer and this was only the second time in the whole SoA I used that special ability


I am now playing ToB, my favorite RPG of all time, and Im in the Marching Mountains. I had some real issues initially with the first Bhaalspawn battle with Illasera, I was killed at least 5 times. I then reran the Ascension mod and removed all '' make Bhaalspawn fights harder " that include Illasera and Gromnir and the fight became reasonable and fun

I think there was a bug with my Ascension mod because the Illasera battle seemed almost impossible?

 

[Sarathiour]

I think there was a bug with my Ascension mod because the Illasera battle seemed almost impossible?

No, you just suck .

Spoiler

really, that's it.

Spoiler

Illasera use dispel magic arrow, invisibility and few other trick, a solution is to throw at he someone with the reflect projectile shield or cleric spell, and then pummel her to death with imp haste