Temple of Elemental Evil: Best Mods?

[Hobbit Lord of Mordor_]

I've got some Russian release patched to 3.0 (official patch?) and prepacked with ToEE frontend, + Co8 7.41 NC and something called 'Orion's Ultimate Fixes'. Not played the game for five years which was before there were any mods but I thought Co8 had release an 8.0

Do you know if there are any pro/cons to installing the 7.4 version and updating or is it better to have a clean game? Are there any alternate mods to choose between or incompatible? My main issue is getting the bug fixes and the extension to 8 player characters. Extra content only if it is non-retarded. What is House on the Borderlands like?

 

[Grunker]

Just use the latest Co8. Nothing else. Their extra content is mostly decent, though still has that mod-feel. Depends on personal taste if you want that or not.

Use a completely clean install. ToEE is notoriously bugged, there is no reason to tempt fate.

Save often and in different slots - never been more true than with ToEE.

 

[Rpgsaurus Rex]

Co8 without NC

 

[Hobbit Lord of Mordor_]

What is so bad about the new content? I selected NC and the thing has taken 20 minutes with still a quarter to install

 

[Grunker]

What is so bad about the new content? I selected NC and the thing has taken 20 minutes with still a quarter to install

I only played NC once but as I said, and I don't recall it in detail, but I remember it being quite decent.

 

[Rpgsaurus Rex]

you can fight and kill St. Cuthbert wielding Cloud's sword

a brand new city full of nothing

new content that makes you overpowered and makes regular game boring/easy

...more reasons?

 

[Hobbit Lord of Mordor_]

you can fight and kill St. Cuthbert wielding Cloud's sword

a brand new city full of nothing

new content that makes you overpowered and makes regular game boring/easy

...more reasons?

Thanks, I was hesitant with previous mod experience gonna reinstall

 

[Grunker]

Hobbit Lord of Mordor_

you can fight and kill St. Cuthbert wielding Cloud's sword

a brand new city full of nothing

new content that makes you overpowered and makes regular game boring/easy

...more reasons?

You can fight St. Cuthbert in the original game as well.

And:

Q: What's this I heard about Cloud's Sword from FF7 / Sword of Life Stealing?

A: There is a hidden item called 'Sword of Life Stealing'. It's a +2 sword that drains a level on a critical hit and gives you 1d6 temporary HP. It's only available via console (type give 4154), and it was there in the vanilla game files.

The life-stealing property is bugged - it will insta-kill any monster without actual character levels (most non-human monsters are such) on a critical hit. Monsters with regeneration ability (such as Trolls) will cause further problems, too.

The Sword's model indeed looks like Cloud's sword from Final Fantasy.

Co8 has created the Guillotine Blade, which used the same model but was otherwise a regular greatsword (without the bugged Lifestealing property). It used to be available for purchase on the beginning shopmap, and was wielded by some critters in Verbobonc. It has since been removed from the game and can only be obtained via console.

Ref:
http://www.co8.org/forum/showpost.ph...0&postcount=13

http://www.co8.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6153

Beyond that, you're already well on your way to the land of the overpowered if you up the party-level to 8 and remove the XP-cap. Well beyond your way there, in fact.

 

[Hobbit Lord of Mordor_]

Doesn't increasing the party size proportionally decrease XP gain? Not sure how that works out in practice but have had an idea for a 7 PC party for a while I want to try. Also want to try a party of 4 multi-classers

 

[Grunker]

Doesn't increasing the party size proportionally decrease XP gain? Not sure how that works out in practice but have had an idea for a 7 PC party for a while I want to try. Also want to try a party of 4 multi-classers

Well, the problem is the cap of 10 is reached pretty quickly, and ToEE has a strong declining difficulty curve.

 

[Gord]

Without the new content at least my party of 6 did reach level 10 only on level 3 or 4 of the temple, i.e. very late game.
My levels in the final fight were 4x 12 and 2x 11 (my two crafters).
So if you go without the nc, you at least don't have to worry much about the level cap.
Hommlet isn't exactly the most interesting content though, so you might get bored with early game.
In that case it's probably best to use the console to award 2000-3000 exp and skip Hommlet - or install the new content patch.

 

[Hobbit Lord of Mordor_]

Is the level cap part of the game design - ie you are supposed to stop advancing 80% of the way in? I think I got to mid game when I last played so hadn't encountered that.

Could XP rate gain be easily modded so you could take a larger party and never reach the level cap (so you'd be same 'power' as a default 5 party capped since mid-late game?)

 

[Grunker]

Is the level cap part of the game design - ie you are supposed to stop advancing 80% of the way in? I think I got to mid game when I last played so hadn't encountered that.

Could XP rate gain be easily modded so you could take a larger party and never reach the level cap (so you'd be same 'power' as a default 5 party capped since mid-late game?)

Dunno, but ToEE badly needs a mod like Sword Coast Stratagems for Baldur's Gate, and such a feature would definetely be a must. Sadly, ToEE is notoriously difficult to mod.

 

[Vadeross]

Dont use the quicksave slot because it is bugged and may corrupt your game.

 

[Lilura]

Is the level cap part of the game design - ie you are supposed to stop advancing 80% of the way in? I think I got to mid game when I last played so hadn't encountered that.

Co8 lets you set the level cap to 20 and you have a party of up to eight, so if you set it to that and hit the cap at 80% in, then you're definitely XP farming and not crafting anything.

 

[oscar]

DO NOT DOWNLOAD THE C08 MOD, IT INCLUDES CLOUD'S SWORD: AVOID LIKE THE PLAGUE!!!!

 

[Gord]

Is the level cap part of the game design - ie you are supposed to stop advancing 80% of the way in? I think I got to mid game when I last played so hadn't encountered that.

Hm, I think in general the difficulty level stays the same after you reach (character) levels 4-5 (with some notable exceptions, see below). At that point difficulty curve gets smoother and most encounters scale in difficulty with your exp gain (due to the more linear exploration of the temple, not due to level scaling).
That was my impression at least - but I'm really a ToEE noob.
The hardest fights will likely happen in

Spoiler

the elemental nodes on temple level 4 and there especially with the Balor guardian.

And for those a few levels more don't hurt at all, so you don't need to worry that ToEE becomes a cakewalk without the level cap (and imho 1-2 levels don't make a huge difference in this level range anyway).
I can't comment on the effect of the new content patch though, as I haven't tried it yet. From what I've heard you gain more exp early on and the temple might become much easier as a result.
If you are unsure, I'd play without new content first - that's what I have done, at least.

 

[Rpgsaurus Rex]

After finishing the extra CO8 content Balor will be at most a minor nuisance (my experience).

 

[MicoSelva]

I remember playing unmodded ToEE once. I advanced my party to level 4 just by repeatedly failing to disarm a trapped chest in Hommlet. Good times.

 

[Lilura]

If you are unsure, I'd play without new content first - that's what I have done, at least.

This is good advice, Standard Revision is already somewhat bloated and unofficial for my taste, but they give their reasons for it here:

Standard versions contain mainly bugfixes, rules compliance modifications, AI tweaks, and content restoration, in addition to a few actual mods like the Rannos and Gremag revenge scenario and the Moathouse Ambush. These are 'mini-mods' compared to the major expansions, and we include them in the standard modpack because we don't feel they significantly impact the balance of the game, and because our longterm feedback indicates that over time, they have become considered part and parcel with the basic game. Many players don't even know that they are mods. The standard modpacks also contain all our custom portraits, voice sets, items, worldmap, et al.

 

[Hobbit Lord of Mordor_]

Trying to get back into 3rd ed rules for character creation, choosing between feats is hard I'll see how it plays

 

[Lilura]

Here's a cookie-cutter example human fighter build that mops the floor with mobs, glaive is for punishing reach attacks:

Ftr1: Power Attack, Cleave, Weapon Focus: Glaive
Ftr2: Combat Reflexes
Ftr3: Dodge
Ftr4: Weapon Specialization: Glaive
Ftr6: Great Cleave, Mobility
Ftr8: Combat Expertise
Ftr9: Spring Attack
Ftr10: Whirlwind Attack

Needs 13 DEX for CR and 13 INT for CE but try to get more dex for max attacks of opportunity.

Craft a +3 Holy Axiomatic glaive.

Did you mean Keep on the Borderlands? I think its an admirable effort, a standalone mod made by one guy mostly, but it isn't being updated anymore. Has pretty heavy role-playing compared to the ToEE OC.

 

[Irenaeus]

cookie-cutter example human fighter build that mops the floor with mobs

Does this hold for 3.5ed?

 

[Lilura]

ToEE is 3.5... I'm not sure if its exactly like PnP 3.5, though, as I'm only a lowly CRPGer.

 

[Gord]

Does this hold for 3.5ed?

I think it all depends a bit on the implementation of weapon reach.
ToEE is giving you a long reach, with AoO when someone tries to enter your "zone of control", but doesn't prevent attacks with those weapons when the enemy is too close.
Which is why weapons like the Glaive are so great in ToEE.
Other games might either not mind the long reach, or prevent attacks to close enemies (as in PnP, I think), which might reduce the usefulness of such weapons a bit.