Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

KickStarter System Shock 1 Remake by Nightdive Studios

Bad Sector

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Messages
2,334
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I'm not saying it looks bad. Quite the contrary in fact. But I have some qualms with their choice to go with this retro pixelated look at some places, and high poly in others.
Like I said - the blurry and unreadable screen displays were the limitation of the time; doing it now, especially that everything has some lights in different colours, feels like a cheap solution to me.

Yeah the pixelated look is the main visual thing i do not really like about the game (i also am not a fan of how the mutants look but that is just a minor dislike).

And it isn't cheap really, the texturework they've done is actually very good and the methods they seem to have used is the same as what you'd use for modern styled visuals, it just looks like they simply make the textures "normally" and then downscaled them (in some cases you can see the artifacts from downscaling too) and disabled texture filtering. If anything they probably did more work here.

Though they also do have some manually pixelled textures, mainly on displays like the one in the handgun that shows the ammo. If they blindly enabled filtering in textures those would look too blurry (which i guess is why they didn't provide an option to do that), they'd have to manually mark all those cases so they remain pixelated.

Perhaps they'll do it down the line but i haven't seen many negative comments about it, if anything i saw several comments about people liking it, so i guess it is just something to get used to. I do like retro pixelated graphics, it is just that i have associated them with the simpler rendering approaches you'd see in 90s games and in my eyes they clash with the higher detail and fidelity visuals the game has - it kinda reminds me of some garish mods for older games that slap high resolution textures in low resolution models, but in reverse :-P.

Well, at least visually there is the benefit that the game will look as sharp as it does now with increased resolutions down the line.
 

Fenix

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
6,567
Location
Russia atchoum!
And there's a total of 3 women in the logs for med - Althea, Mira, and one other I can't recall the name of. Stop making up issues that don't exist.

You contradict yourself, fucker.
I played SS1 long ago but I'm sure those 3 were not exist before. Better think before telling something.
Original System Shock 1 medical audiologs:

Interesting.
I could swear there were no such names in the game. My bad.
If they are not rewriting plot and adding new characters, it's more tolerable, except sobbing I haven't notic earlier.

why you want remake to be exactly like same game just play the enhanced edition lol

I don't want this remake at all. I would played SSP if I didn't that many times before.

On the other hand in SS1 there were respawning monsters all the time, almost every time i went back to the healing pod area there were new monsters to the point that i collected 52 med patches just from the monsters i killed (and not all of them have those, many had just empty cans). At one point i even had killed every monster in a room only to turn around (literally just turned around, i didn't move) and when i turned back there were three new monsters in front of me :-P.

Strange, never had such respawn in SSP.

I even changed my mind about the sobbing in a couple of recordings since if you think about it those people aren't some hardened marines, but scientists and other civilians... and some of the recordings in the original do not sound that great TBH

Why the FUCK do you think that you need to be marines to not sob?
They are scientists, wake up, those are looking for ways of solution, not for crying.
Watch some movie form 70-80s with scientists - do they cry? There was some old film about virus - Andromeda strain? Or there was another. Do they sob? Scientists have cold mind, they dissect animals you know.
The atmosphere with this sobbing shifted to what Lemming42 said - horror, which wasn't the case with original game, which has TEnSIOn for sure, and few jumpscare moments but nothing more.
 
Last edited:

DJOGamer PT

Arcane
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
8,108
Location
Lusitânia
Played the demo
The level design is pretty much the same of the original with some small changes that make sense (like the "reception" desk on the 451 door)
The combat has been nicely updated - SS1 for me as always been a kinda 3D metroidvania before the Prime triology, as such the combat is more about resource managment plus what risks you want to take rather than the moment to moment action and game feel like in a pure action game; and this demo certainly has the former (grenades could be less bouncy and have a larger AoE)
Cyberspace is surprisingly pretty clear and readable

Although this demo ran far better than the previous versions, I would say most gripes are from the visual and thecnical aspects:
-pixaleted textures
-physics glitches
-poor feedback to melee attacks
-the gore system needs a polish
-they need to fix the lighting in some places (by this I mean the lighting is actually broken in some parts of the level, not for them to make it less dark as I actually like that very much)
-pathches should have faster animations
-the AI for cyborgs should be a bit more active
-after the first time the animations for the healing pod and power stations should just be skipped
-they moved saturn to a position below the station, why?

Also they seem to have listened to Mandalore's video and dialed back the amount of blue

But overall this seems like a very good remake
 

JDR13

Arcane
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
3,997
Location
The Swamp
Played the demo some more, and the only issue I really have is how dark it is in some places. I know there's a lamp implant in the original game, but it doesn't show up until a later level. I hope they decide to make it available sooner in the remake.
 

kites

samsung verizon hitachi
Patron
Joined
Jan 30, 2015
Messages
573
Location
hyperborean trenchtown
i wonder if there will be an option for the original OST; maybe some DLC-milking ala RE2. i don't think it would fit well, but i'll be disappointed if there aren't more nods to it.. the ambient track i've heard the last hour sounds one touch away from being lifted out of the prey menu screen
 

ciox

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
1,387
Some might disagree but I always thought Chicajo had a great interpretation of the original soundtrack, not a carbon copy, not a total reinvention or genre shift, but a more serious and atmospheric arrangement with the original closely in mind.
Unfortunately it seems we're getting some combination of ambient and total reinvention instead, leaning hard on the ambient part.





 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
7,055
I hate modern ambient droning soundtracks. All so goddamn soulless. A purge of this shit industry is desperately needed.
 

udm

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 14, 2008
Messages
2,902
Make the Codex Great Again!
Played it for a while. The darkness is one thing, as others have already mentioned, but the UI really pisses me off. I never had a problem with tooltip-based UIs in games like Deus Ex and (lol) the System Shock games, but it greatly annoys me here every time I have to wait two seconds for the "Picked up Syringe" text to go away to see what the next item is. On top of that, this is the most crowded UI I've ever seen with the most useless information ever. There's something about the placement and colours of the HUD elements that just don't sit right.

My inclination to play through the rest of the demo is low, but I am rather tempted to replay Shock 1 again after this.

EDIT: Also, my eyes hurt after playing this. I think it's some of the lights that blink with the bloom effect.
 

gurugeorge

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
7,906
Location
London, UK
Strap Yourselves In
Some might disagree but I always thought Chicajo had a great interpretation of the original soundtrack, not a carbon copy, not a total reinvention or genre shift, but a more serious and atmospheric arrangement with the original closely in mind.
Unfortunately it seems we're getting some combination of ambient and total reinvention instead, leaning hard on the ambient part.







Those are lovely, but playing through the game with a Yamaha DB50XG daughtercard on an AWE32 was sublime at the time. Happy days! :D
 

Cpt. Dallas

Learned
Joined
Dec 15, 2020
Messages
607
Location
Keep on the Borderlands
I never played the original, but completed the recent EE updated for modern OS's and mouselook/WASD.

After completed this new demo, I'd say the remake is promising but the price is a little steep for pure nostalgia's sake. I preferred SS2, and that might bait me into the pre-sale.
Not being able to space-skip the green text 'bios' boot after dying was an annoyance.
 

Borian

Guest
I saw some footage. The lighting looks like every other Unreal engine game. I clocked it as a game using engine defaults the second I saw it. I felt very smug about that. Anyone else know what I'm talking about?
 

Bad Sector

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Messages
2,334
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Yes, you are talking about PBR - it isn't exclusive to UE4, several engines already have adopted this sort of approach. I am not a big fan myself though - sure, it creates good looking results but it makes every game look "same-y" (especially considering how many artists also tend to use the same materials from the same libraries). You can tweak things (and to its credit the SS1 remake does this a little) but it is "baked" into the engine - they'd need a graphics programmer with deep UE4 knowledge to change it, so most games do not do that (do a google image search for "UE4 games" to see what i mean).

I do not see things changing anytime soon, at least outside games with cartoony/highly stylized visuals, as it is both easier for artists to work with (while creating very realistic results) and almost a circlejerk among graphics programming circles.
 

LudensCogitet

Learned
Joined
Nov 4, 2019
Messages
210
Yes, you are talking about PBR - it isn't exclusive to UE4, several engines already have adopted this sort of approach. I am not a big fan myself though - sure, it creates good looking results but it makes every game look "same-y" (especially considering how many artists also tend to use the same materials from the same libraries). You can tweak things (and to its credit the SS1 remake does this a little) but it is "baked" into the engine - they'd need a graphics programmer with deep UE4 knowledge to change it, so most games do not do that (do a google image search for "UE4 games" to see what i mean).

I do not see things changing anytime soon, at least outside games with cartoony/highly stylized visuals, as it is both easier for artists to work with (while creating very realistic results) and almost a circlejerk among graphics programming circles.

The domination of computer games by a handful of general purpose 3rd party engines is decline.
 

Latelistener

Arcane
Joined
May 25, 2016
Messages
2,624
It's decline only if you haven't thought about developing your own project.

Fewer engine means bigger communities for each, means more support for each and more market assets for each. All of this means easier time for smaller teams, which means more junk games, but also more potentially good games.

And they didn't dominate anything. Source and id Tech left the race because of stupidity of their own creators. And almost every publisher has their own engine nowadays.
 

Melcar

Arcane
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
36,582
Location
Merida, again
Almost every big publisher you mean. Many smaller ones just use shit like Unity and UE. Bigger publishers can afford to have their own engines, so every AAA and AA game released under them uses it. That still gives of the impression that most games use the same engine.
 

Bad Sector

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Messages
2,334
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Source and id Tech left the race because of stupidity of their own creators.

AFAIK it is more that they didn't care. Valve never really tried to license Source nor it ever seemed to be much of their focus and id had it available for licensing but IIRC Carmack actually didn't like it (it was pushed by others in the company) and considered it a waste of time (all you got if you licensed id tech would be the code and a day to ask Carmack questions and that was it). Hell, if you went to their site at the time in the page about licensing they recommended you to get the free GPL version of their previous tech instead of wasting your money in their latest engine.

Unreal on the other hand pushed for licensing from very early and Unity was made from the ground up as a product.
 

LudensCogitet

Learned
Joined
Nov 4, 2019
Messages
210
It's decline only if you haven't thought about developing your own project.

Fewer engine means bigger communities for each, means more support for each and more market assets for each. All of this means easier time for smaller teams, which means more junk games, but also more potentially good games.

And they didn't dominate anything. Source and id Tech left the race because of stupidity of their own creators. And almost every publisher has their own engine nowadays.

I do develop my own projects, however slowly, and I can't stand third party engines.

Of course there are (perceived) advantages, otherwise people wouldn't do it, but are those advantages about the quality of games or advancing the medium?

Every advantage you mentioned, for instance, is about ease, not quality, with an assumption that ease will somehow lead to quality.

Ease also leads to cookie cutter junk and the narrowing of thought into well worn channels.
 

RoSoDude

Arcane
Joined
Oct 1, 2016
Messages
750
Rehosting ZylonBane's review of the last SSR demo on the systemshock.org forums here for your enjoyment. It's a really solid breakdown and I agree with virtually all of it.

https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=8642.msg139016#msg139016

ZylonBane said:
Finally typed up all my thoughts on the latest demo...

THINGS I LIKED
  • The ambient music.
  • The additions to the original levels.
  • The art style. It would look pretty great if it wasn't marred by the pixelation.
  • The 3D modeling of the old sprite-based enemies.
  • The absence of those silly TriOptimum-shaped screens we'd been seeing.
  • The cyberspace movement controls.

THINGS THAT NEED IMPROVEMENT

STARTUP
You have to select each difficulty option to view its description. Would be more user-friendly if the description just showed on rollover.

Rolling over each difficulty category shows a plain box outline in the graphic on the right. This is ugly and unnecessary. It's just a decorative widget to fill screen space.

SHODAN incorrectly written as "Shodan" in all difficulty description texts.

After clicking Confirm, my screen always goes black and I hear beeping noises. Apparently there's supposed to be some sort of briefing playing during this part. Fortunately I can click to skip past it.

The opening animation is so low-res, it looks almost exactly like the "Videlectrix" intro from those old Homestar Runner parody games.

The bootup sequence... they're even pixelating the TEXT? The one thing that those old systems could display with perfect clarity? We haven't even started the game proper yet and Night Dive has already lost the plot on this pixelation obsession. This doesn't even make sense within the context of the game, because there's none of this pixelation on your HUD.

In all options screens, you have to click Save, then Done to apply any change. This is annoying and pointlessly complex. There should just be Done and Cancel buttons like every other game does it. We're tweaking game settings here, not configuring a server. If I make a mistake I just go back and change it.

In the options screens, the placement of the Reset/Save/Done buttons within each option frame implies to the user that they apply to that set of options only. Nope. Hitting a Reset button resets EVERYTHING to the default state.

The option setting "Screen Curvature" should be labeled "HUD Curvature", since it only affects the HUD.

The game mutes when you tab away from it, but doesn't pause.

If the color schemes must be given cute names, I think it'd be more in keeping with the game's cyberpunk theme to name them after retro technologies. Something like:
- Yellow: "Amber" (for amber monochrome monitors)
- Red: "Plasma" (for red plasma monitors)
- White: "Alto" (for the Xerox Alto's white screen)
- Purple: "Neon" (purple light is actually argon but oh well)
- Cyan: "Ice" (there currently isn't a cyan theme, but considering System Shock's heavy use of this color, there certainly should be one)

HUD/USER INTERFACE
Message handling is a mess.
- In SS1, there was a single line on the HUD that displayed both descriptions (when you clicked on an item) and interaction notifications. Simplistic, but it worked.
- In SS2, they improved this by having descriptions automatically appear in a dedicated space at the top of the screen, and notifications appearing below it in a scrolling area that allowed multiple notifications to be visible at once. This worked great.
- In SSR... hoo boy. There's a dedicated line at the top like in SS2, but it's used to display both descriptions AND notifications. But not all notifications! Some notifications appear in another area, that can only display one notification at a time. And that's just the layout. Let's talk about presentation. In the top line, messsages slooowwlly appear one character at a time. Forcing players to constantly stop wait stop wait stop wait for every item description to fully display is sociopathic design. As for the single-line sometimes-notification area, it's off to the left, uses a dark font, and is right underneath the constantly-animating biomonitor. This all makes it very easy to not even notice when a message appears here. It's all a usability disaster. They should have just swallowed their pride and copied what SS2 did. Description line. Multiline notification area. Text appears instantly. Done.

The compass has a couple issues. First, it stretches alllll the way across the screen. This is a useless waste of space, which becomes awkward empty space when the compass is disabled. Second, The compass doesn't display compass headings on the scrolling part, just degrees. There's a separate sub-widget that displays N/S/E/W as you rotate toward those directions. This is needlessly complex. Trimming the compass display to just the center of the screen would allow moving the biomonitor and health bars up into the space it occupied, and moving the direction labels onto the compass would simplify reading it. Here's a mockup.

The highlight reticle does this distracting expand/shrink animation as you look at and away from interactable objects. This is tolerable when it's just a single object, but when you have multiple objects clustered together, it causes the reticle to spastically thrash as you look around. The reticle is functional UI, it should immediately appear and disappear as objects are focused instead of wasting our time with pointless "cool" animations.

The highlight reticle having two different ranges--identification range and use range--is annoying and confusing. The reticle should never show up unless the object under it is in use range.

I don't like the way the health and energy meters fill right-to-left. SS1 and SS2 (and practically every other FPS with horizontal health meters) fills them left-to-right. I feel like I'm looking at these bars in a mirror.

There needs to be a HUD display of your current gun's ammo, settings, etc. Currently the only way to tell is to look for vague differences on the object model or go into the inventory. There's a big blank space on the right side of the screen that would be perfect for this information.

The inventory should recognize when you're trying to drag-and-drop an inventory item instead of forcing you to click a second time to drop.

Why do I have to *HOLD* F to play an audio log? Just pressing F does nothing, so let me just press F to listen to audio logs. And it doesn't even work anymore after the prompt disappears! I can see the envelope icon indicating I have something to listen to, but holding F does nothing. Pressing (not holding) F should always play the most recently picked up log.

Why do I have to hold Alt for inventory item descriptions? Just display the description by default. There's plenty of room for it.

You apparently have to double-click logs and emails to play them, instead of single-clicking. Nothing in the UI indicates you have to do this. You shouldn't have to do this.

Forcing players to click on the door switch ONLY instead of anywhere on the door to open it is obnoxious. You know what I want, game. Just do it.

Being forced to watch a little animation that slows down movement and locks out picking up anything else every time I pick up a piece of "special" equipment is incredibly annoying.

The sequence when you die and get reconstructed is way too long. And not nearly as funny as in SS1.

I don't like the wiring puzzles at all. They're awkward to control, they're too slow to update, and they do a terrible job of communicating to the player how the colored electricity interacts and combines.

TEXT/TYPOGRAPHY
Most of the UI text is way too small, especially the compass heading text and the text under the automap. It's like Night Dive assumes everyone will be playing this on either a 32" monitor or a big-screen TV. At 1024x768, some of the text is basically illegible. This is unacceptable. Properly sized UI text should be clearly legible even as low as 640x480. (Let's also consider the irony of making a game with jumbo-sized retro pixels but then teeny-tiny text that requires modern resolutions.)

Right-clicking unusable objects produces random can't-use messages. This doesn't make sense. Everything on the HUD is supposed to be generated by the hacker's R-grade implant, which surely would NOT have been programmed to generate cutesy randomized messages. Everything displayed on the HUD should be diegetic. SS1 and SS2 got this right.

I really don't need messages like "Door opened", "Lever pulled", etc. I know those things happened. I'm the one who did it.

When you pick up an access card you already have, it just says "YOU GAIN NO NEW ACCESS". Well great, but I'd still like to know what I picked up.

When attempting to open a cyberspace locked door you get the message "IT'S LOCKED IN CYBERSPACE", which seems awfully conversational for your R-grade implant. Something like "CYBERSPACE LOCK ACTIVE" would be more appropriate. But even that would be a bit gamey, because cyberspace isn't what's locked the door. It's been locked by the station computer. Cyberspace is just an interface.

The station signage font works fine as a title font for simple words like "ALPHA", "GAMMA", etc., but for longer strings like "Neurosurgery" and the names of crew members, it gets a little overbearing. That's why the original DIDN'T use this font for everything.

Having puzzles literally labeled "Puzzles" on the map screen isn't very immersive. Again, the HUD should be as diegetic as possible. That's the entire reason Looking Glass made up the R-grade implant in the first place, to provide an in-game explanation for all this UI.

All descriptions of paneling have it misspelled as "panelling". I spotted at least three different ones.

MediPatch description: "Tolerance increased by 20%". Tolerance to WHAT?

GRAPHICS
Yeah, I get that Night Dive is trying to do some fashionably stylish faux-retro thing with the intentionally pixelated textures. Problem is, it just looks shabby to me. This look should be an option, not forced on us. So that's all I'll say on that.

The level lighting is so freaking dark, I didn't even get much of a look at any of the new AIs, because it was too dark to see them. In fact it's so dark that I rarely had much sense of where I was going or where I'd been. I just felt like I was randomly stumbling around in the dark for most of the level. If not for the automap and having played the original many times, I'd have been lost most of the time. This is completely unlike the original, where Medical was, for the most part, well-lit.

I generally like how SS1's blinky wall panels have been interpreted in the remake. But the problem is that they've been overused almost to the point of self-parody. There are now SO MANY blinkenlights everywhere that it's often difficult to identify actual objects that can be used or picked up. Every other room looks like the bridge of the Enterprise. It's too much.

Using power charge stations shoots bolts of lightning everywhere. This is nonsensical. It's not like the Hacker is grabbing a bare transformer. This is a piece of standard station equipment specifically designed for recharging things. If it's shooting out lightning, that means it's horribly damaged and I should stay the hell away from it. Imagine if your cell phone charger spat out sparks like that every time you plugged it in. You'd throw that thing in the trash. Worse yet, the game temporarily unequips your current weapon when using a charge station just so it can play a silly animation of the hacker shaking sparks off his fingers.

The new SHODAN portrait looks like the sort of cheesy neon display you'd find at the back of a Spencer's Gifts, between the blacklight posters and the plasma spheres.

The dead crew members almost look more horrifying than the mutants. They look like albino department store mannequins.

The wall widget with four vertical red lines is animated wrong. In SS1 they don't ping-pong, they scroll.

The screen-filling flash when you open most doors is beyond obnoxious.

The view of space out the windows is bizarre. It looks like Citadel is surrounded by glowing blue cotton balls.

Equipped weapons clip into terrain.

The falling dust when you open some doors is a nice touch, but then the same amount of dust keeps falling every. single. time. you open and close a door. Where is this infinite supply of dust coming from?

Most of the light fixtures on this deck look like the sort of harsh industrial lighting you'd normally see hanging from a warehouse ceiling, or mounted inside a paint drying station. They make zero sense for what's supposed to essentially be an office environment. These should be replaced with diffused fluorescent lighting, like Irrational did when they redrew these textures for SS2.

The "soft paneling" is clearly not soft at all. It's grids of very sharp edges that would shred anyone who stumbled into them. I'd recommend a different interpretation of the original textures, making them instead look like actual soft paneling, of the type that was popular in 60s-70s sci-fi. This would actually be appropriate for a medical deck, and would fit with System Shock's theme of being packed with classic sci-fi references.

Those uncovered fingers on the Hacker's hand are driving me insane. I have no interest in spending multiple hours staring at someone's dirty fingernails. Those CONSTANTLY blinking lights on the Hacker's glove are also distracting.

The chromatic aberration all over the UI is annoying. It makes everything look blurry and hard to read. We should at least have an option to turn this off in the graphics settings.

Inventory icons have an unpleasant washed-out filter that tints them to the color of the current UI theme. This does not look good.

The unlit LED segments on keypads and guns are so bright that it can be difficult to read what they're actually displaying. The unlit parts being a visible color doesn't even make sense, because they change color when a correct code is entered.

The original Medical level had quite a few video screens scattered around, displaying abstract "tech" animations, exterior views of the stations, static, Diego, etc. These are now strangely absent. We get a lot of non-animated TriOp logos and that's pretty much it.

OBJECTS
The "Rest Stations" need some external signage indicating their function, since from the outside they look like some kind of robot charging bay.

The overhead station monitors that rotate to face you don't make sense. If multiple crew members approach one of these things from opposite directions, how's it supposed to decide who to face? Yet another "cool but nonsensical" addition.

The container for patches looks exactly like, and is held by the player exactly like, a makeup compact. This looks rather silly. Also, it's annoying to have to sit through that canned animation every time you use one.

Wall screens can't be smashed like in SS1, and make a metallic sound when struck.

The security cameras themselves have a laughably complex design, with multiple joints and dangling cables. They almost look like a mini-GLaDOS. Whoever modeled them must have been bored that day.

The surgery machine design is completely nonsensical. It's impossible to load a human being into one of these things without essentially folding them in half. Not exactly something you'd want to do with someone who might be gravely injured.

Too many useless objects you can pick up, and no apparent rhyme or reason to which ones can be picked up and which ones can't. If we're going to have all these junk objects, there should be a clear UI indication of what's junk and what's not, preferably before I pick it up.

The audio log object looks like a toy Jetsons spaceship. I can see how they superficially resemble the original SS1 audio log sprite, but the interpretation is off. I believe the sprite is supposed to be a play on the various high-capacity removable disk formats that were popular in the early 90s (ZIP disks, Jazz cartridges, etc.).

Those ridiculous bouncy-bouncy doors on the elevator are still in, I see. I'm wondering if whoever did the animation for this has ever ridden an elevator in their life.

The repulsorlifts now look like some kind of plasma blender. These things are supposed to be designed for people to walk and stand on. That means their surface should be flat.

AUDIO
Sound propagation issues between rooms. In the starting room, which is completely sealed, I can clearly hear a cyborg talking.

The vocal "HOOAH!" "HAAHH!" every single time you swing your pipe is ridiculous. Please just give us a swoosh sound.

Still using that cringey "You're gonna need it" message from Rebecca Lansing, I see. Please don't. The original log was so much more professional-sounding.

In the re-recorded SHODAN greeting, she mispronounces "somnolent" as "somnulunt".

The re-recorded audio logs are not, in general, an improvement. They sound too much like the people who made them are (dramatic flourish) "AAACTING!".

Even though the new music isn't bad, I'd still very much like the option to switch to the original music.

Security cameras make a loud annoying chirp when they spot you, and a quieter chirp when they lose sight of you. This indicates to the player that there's some gameplay significance to being spotted by cameras. But there isn't. It doesn't matter at all if a camera can see you or not, so these sounds are just an annoying distraction. Instead of being motivated to destroy them to lower the security level, I'm motivated to destroy them so I don't have to listen to them anymore.

LEVEL DESIGN
There's an absurdly bright blinking yellow light in the starting room, which apparently serves no purpose whatsoever. This light did not exist in the original level. There are a couple more lights like this scattered around the level.

There are multiple places where a small corner of a room has been completely fenced off with railings for no apparent reason. Like, there's railing around an area that's literally just floor with nothing in it.

The pleasant little relaxation garden from the original now looks like "HAZARDOUS FLORA CONTAINMENT BAY - DO NOT DISENGAGE FORCE FIELD". That's not very relaxing at all.

CYBERSPACE
The cyberspace entry and exit animation is way too long.

Taking damage from colliding with walls is super annoying. Not even the original cyberspace did that.

While original cyberspace had the problem that it could be difficult to tell where the walls were, this version's cyberspace, due to the incredibly busy texturing, has the opposite problem that it's often difficult to tell where the walls are NOT. It's pure visual overload.

WEAPONS
Weapon overheating appears to have been removed. Booo.

When the Sparq is set to the highest power level, it constantly runs an animation of electric arcs spewing out from the gun, which a) is super distracting, and b) doesn't even make sense when it's not being fired. Its battery can be completely drained and it's still madly spitzing and sparking away.

ENEMIES
The Repairbot shoots FIRE at you? Why would a repair bot be equipped with a flamethrower? The original Repairbot used electrical attacks, which actually made sense for what it is.

The new name for the Hopper, "Mobile Laser", makes it sound like a weapon. Calling it something like "Mobile Welder" instead would better suggest its original purpose as a maintenance robot.

PHYSICS
Some of the props sitting on people's desks go wildly flying when you bump into them.

Trying to solve a puzzle while constantly bobbing up and down and sliding around in a repulsorlift beam is a gigantic pain.

The leaning motion is clunky and makes it feel like I'm banging against a wall even when I'm standing in the middle of a room. Needs some easing on the animation.

Destroyed things often continually make little jittery wiggling motions instead of just accepting that they're dead.

IN SUMMARY
It seems to me that every time someone on the dev team for this remake suggested a new "cool" thing, the response from management was always "Yes!" and never "Wait, does that make sense? How will it impact gameplay?"

A lot of the complaints above may seem like little things, and many of them are, but getting those things right is exactly why people still talk about Looking Glass games decades later. They understood that immersion comes from getting all the little things right. It doesn't even cost anything to get things right, it just takes devs who can be bothered to care and think things through.
 

urmom

Learned
Joined
May 28, 2020
Messages
308
I think recreating the level design so closely was kind of boneheaded. It worked in the original because the whole game was low detail and your mind kind of filled in the gaps. Is it necessary now?

I mean, you can still have good level design without copying everything 1:1 right? In theory anyway with 10x the budget.

I'll gladly replay the original but have almost zero interest in this remake. I hope for the developer's sake there's enough of you guys to keep them afloat.
 
Last edited:

JDR13

Arcane
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
3,997
Location
The Swamp
It's not exactly 1:1 though. There are lots of subtle changes that make the levels seem more realistic than what they were in the original game.
 

Bad Sector

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Messages
2,334
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Rehosting ZylonBane's review of the last SSR demo on the systemshock.org forums here for your enjoyment. It's a really solid breakdown and I agree with virtually all of it.

https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=8642.msg139016#msg139016

Overall i also agree (though aside from a few things on usability, like text sizes and too much contrast that ends up with blinding bloom, pretty much everything is nitpicking :-P), but i do have some comments on some things:

The opening animation is so low-res, it looks almost exactly like the "Videlectrix" intro from those old Homestar Runner parody games.

AFAICT the idea is that your visor (or implant) is running its own OS which is low resolution - the animation (and all "green screens") is supposed to be part of it and you see the full extent of it in the boot up sequence when you die. This is an aesthetic choice, not something they forgot to make better - i think it is meant to be a nod towards the PC boot up screens from the time System Shock was released (it is very similar to many AMI BIOS boot up sequences that a ton of PCs, especially non-branded OEM PCs, had).

Why do I have to *HOLD* F to play an audio log? Just pressing F does nothing, so let me just press F to listen to audio logs.

I do not have the game installed ATM but isn't F the same key as the interaction key? If so it might be to avoid accidentally starting the audio log while you are trying to interact with something but you "miss" the object.

Everything on the HUD is supposed to be generated by the hacker's R-grade implant, which surely would NOT have been programmed to generate cutesy randomized messages. [...] When attempting to open a cyberspace locked door you get the message "IT'S LOCKED IN CYBERSPACE", which seems awfully conversational for your R-grade implant

Why wouldn't it be programmed with cutesy messages? We already have and had for long computing devices with such "cute" programming, from the original Macintosh's Sad and Happy mac faces in the 80s to modern Windows 10's Sad BSOD face with overly informal writing. And Linux was always full of such messages, like "Kernel Panic: Aiee" when some catastrophic error happened :-P

Yeah, I get that Night Dive is trying to do some fashionably stylish faux-retro thing with the intentionally pixelated textures. Problem is, it just looks shabby to me. This look should be an option, not forced on us. So that's all I'll say on that.

I agree with this, however as i mentioned before i think it'll be hard to have an option with the way they design some of the textures to have 1 pixel wide elements, especially with text. 1px wide text fonts will become too blurry.

The dead crew members almost look more horrifying than the mutants. They look like albino department store mannequins. [...] Equipped weapons clip into terrain.

I *think* those are temporary. Well, i hope so for the crew members, because if nothing else all of them use the exact same model.

The "soft paneling" is clearly not soft at all. It's grids of very sharp edges that would shred anyone who stumbled into them.

This depends on the material, you can have soft material that is still square. Though i think the main reason they kept it like that is because the squares are basically one of the most memorable parts of the game - the first thing you see when you play it, so removing it would be like remaking Doom 1 without E1M1.

Also i remember reading comments from people about how unsafe the walls in SS1 (the original) looked too :-P

The overhead station monitors that rotate to face you don't make sense. If multiple crew members approach one of these things from opposite directions, how's it supposed to decide who to face? Yet another "cool but nonsensical" addition.

This is actually not as nonsensical as it may sound: we already have the technology for gaze and position tracking, the monitor can have an active area where it simply rotates itself towards the middle of all the people that look towards it.

If it is practical is another matter (it *can* be convenient to avoid moving around to see something), but we have a lot of cool-yet-pointless stuff in real life too: like the elevators in my last job that had some advanced system of using cards etc to work instead of just pressing a button (you'd think that it'd be for security, but no, we also had stairs and you could just type a floor outside the elevator anyway, it was purely a "form over function" thing).

Security cameras make a loud annoying chirp when they spot you, and a quieter chirp when they lose sight of you. This indicates to the player that there's some gameplay significance to being spotted by cameras. But there isn't. It doesn't matter at all if a camera can see you or not, so these sounds are just an annoying distraction.

The sound has a gameplay use in that indicates that there is a camera nearby. This can be very helpful when you are trying to find cameras to destroy as some cameras can be hidden in obnoxious places.
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
7,055
Why wouldn't it be programmed with cutesy messages? We already have and had for long computing devices with such "cute" programming, from the original Macintosh's Sad and Happy mac faces in the 80s to modern Windows 10's Sad BSOD face with overly informal writing. And Linux was always full of such messages, like "Kernel Panic: Aiee" when some catastrophic error happened :-P

Because it is a military-grade implant built into your head, not some home computer. If I'm getting a neural interface built into my head I sure as fuck want it designed around absolute efficiency and not include the personalized cutesy messaged of some fat sweaty hipster programmer.

pretty much everything is nitpicking

I feel like the "nitpicking" counter is used to discredit very valid criticism all too often. If that is not your intent then never mind. If the criticism is so very minor and very subjective then I classify it as nitpicking, but that doesn't look to be the case with *most* of Zylonbane's notes. Like his closing statement says, it's details like this (and many other factors) that set Looking Glass apart from the rest.

The sound has a gameplay use in that indicates that there is a camera nearby. This can be very helpful when you are trying to find cameras to destroy as some cameras can be hidden in obnoxious places.

Just give them an ambient hum/droning then...but you make a good point and I believe this one is probably nitpicking. A player will likely get confused by it thinking it has specific gameplay purpose, that is true, but that doesn't mean the feature has to go. Maybe it will even create moments that make players jump out of their skin, or make SHODAN's omnipresence more felt. She's watching your every move.

On that note I hope they include more SHODAN ambush/player thwarting attempts. Hearing that the cyborg assassin ambush when you destroy the mainframe in medical is gone is the complete opposite of my expectations.

Also perhaps they could include some gameplay purpose to the new camera behavior. Since most enemies are under Shodan control, maybe when a camera has you in its sights nearby enemies know your exact location, or have increased accuracy, or employ advanced manuevers (flanking, flushing you out with a grenade, suppressive fire) more frequently.
 
Last edited:

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom