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KickStarter System Shock 1 Remake by Nightdive Studios

Baron Dupek

Arcane
Joined
Jul 23, 2013
Messages
1,871,365
If only they put item description near the center like that niche forgotten game called Deus Ex...
And make pipe combat on par with old Condemned games by Monolith

wonder how much game is balanced around this garbage collector
quite poetic for garbage remake
FobqB-bacAATEXf
 
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Child of Malkav

Erudite
Joined
Feb 11, 2018
Messages
3,044
Location
Romania
This remake sucks. Are these weapons supposed to deal damage or tickle the enemies because I'm honestly confused? How the fuck does sparq beam has recoil now? Why are enemies so damage spongy? Specialized munition should absolutely wreck specific enemies. They don't. WTF? Why? How long was this thing in development? I should just replay SS1 again to get rid of the bad taste.
 

Tyranicon

A Memory of Eternity
Developer
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
7,809
Another issue is how incredibly low threat the enemies are. Whoever said it was like walking around their girlfriend's apartment at 4am hit the nail on the head, because there's no danger to exploring the station.

What creates a good horror game is to condition the player to fear enemies. Combat should be fast and lethal, forcing the player to use all their skills to survive. Also to incentivize avoiding combat.

Instead here we just have a shooting gallery with slow-moving, dumb enemies that never make you feel like you're in danger.
 

AndyS

Augur
Joined
Sep 11, 2013
Messages
588
I haven't paid much attention to this, but I tried out the demo. It's alright, I guess. It doesn't change my basic feeling that remakes are mostly pointless - a good game in the past will always be a good game regardless of whether kids are too dense to get over their hang-ups about old graphics and interfaces. But I actually liked how this remake updated the cyberspace section. OTOH, I hate the music and I generally hate the modern fixation on atmosphere and ambiance over memorable themes. Also, the "interactive" opening with the hacker meeting Diego comes across less like two morally questionable guys coming to a mutually beneficial agreement over a very delicate bit of high-level hacking and more like your grandpa asking you to come over and help him with his computer because he forgot how to order groceries online. You sit at this desk, push a couple of buttons, and...it's done? The voice acting is a real mixed bag. Some of the audio logs are okay but others are way over-acted. Austin Grossman was certainly no great actor in the original, but he did manage to give Diego a nice sense of being a corporate slimebag who got in way over his head. The new British actor seems more like an imitation of a Bond villain.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
99,636
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Austin Grossman was certainly no great actor in the original, but he did manage to give Diego a nice sense of being a corporate slimebag who got in way over his head. The new British actor seems more like an imitation of a Bond villain.
Oof, what a misread. Edward Diego was clearly meant to evoke Paul Reiser's character from Aliens. "I'm Burke. Carter Burke. I work for the company. But don't let that fool you. I'm really an OK guy!"
 

Semiurge

Cipher
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
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Location
Asp Hole
Finally, I'd also add that the music was composed on the Roland SC-55, which means that in order to hear the MIDI music in its proper form one needs either to have the actual synthesizer or the more recently released Sound Canvas VA, a software synthesizer that emulates one of the related SC devices which contains a map for the instruments in the SC-55 module. The Enhanced Edition just uses the default MIDI device in the system, probably because it wasn't possible to record samples for the system of dynamic music in the game.

The music in the EE is in no means bad though.
 

schru

Arcane
Joined
Feb 27, 2015
Messages
1,142
Finally, I'd also add that the music was composed on the Roland SC-55, which means that in order to hear the MIDI music in its proper form one needs either to have the actual synthesizer or the more recently released Sound Canvas VA, a software synthesizer that emulates one of the related SC devices which contains a map for the instruments in the SC-55 module. The Enhanced Edition just uses the default MIDI device in the system, probably because it wasn't possible to record samples for the system of dynamic music in the game.

The music in the EE is in no means bad though.
It does sound decent enough because the game just uses the default MIDI device, which is the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth in case of Windows (if no other is set to be used in its place), a very simplified version of the Roland SC-55. So at any rate, it should be possible to use the SC VA or the real SC-55 with the Enhanced Edition, but changing the default MIDI device has been made more difficult since Windows 10, while DOSBox has a specific setting for it.
 

Semiurge

Cipher
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
7,687
Location
Asp Hole
Finally, I'd also add that the music was composed on the Roland SC-55, which means that in order to hear the MIDI music in its proper form one needs either to have the actual synthesizer or the more recently released Sound Canvas VA, a software synthesizer that emulates one of the related SC devices which contains a map for the instruments in the SC-55 module. The Enhanced Edition just uses the default MIDI device in the system, probably because it wasn't possible to record samples for the system of dynamic music in the game.

The music in the EE is in no means bad though.
It does sound decent enough because the game just uses the default MIDI device, which is the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth in case of Windows (if no other is set to be used in its place), a very simplified version of the Roland SC-55. So at any rate, it should be possible to use the SC VA or the real SC-55 with the Enhanced Edition, but changing the default MIDI device has been made more difficult since Windows 10, while DOSBox has a specific setting for it.

One of the full soundtracks on youtube that I listened to sounded way simpler (and inferior) than the EE. I specifically searched for the track that was inspired by the Phantasm theme and it sucked.
 

Child of Malkav

Erudite
Joined
Feb 11, 2018
Messages
3,044
Location
Romania
Seems that the game has filtered you before the tutorial even started.
I finished the original. Guess what? It had a map. This piece of shit doesn't. It's missing features. You'd know that if you played the original. That is if you even know there was an original in the first place.
 

Trithne

Erudite
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
1,200
It has a map. You don't even have to select the map in an MFD panel like you do in the original.

My guess is you missed the mapping module add-on, because it's on a shelf in the cryobay closet and not in the briefcase.
 

schru

Arcane
Joined
Feb 27, 2015
Messages
1,142
Finally, I'd also add that the music was composed on the Roland SC-55, which means that in order to hear the MIDI music in its proper form one needs either to have the actual synthesizer or the more recently released Sound Canvas VA, a software synthesizer that emulates one of the related SC devices which contains a map for the instruments in the SC-55 module. The Enhanced Edition just uses the default MIDI device in the system, probably because it wasn't possible to record samples for the system of dynamic music in the game.

The music in the EE is in no means bad though.
It does sound decent enough because the game just uses the default MIDI device, which is the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth in case of Windows (if no other is set to be used in its place), a very simplified version of the Roland SC-55. So at any rate, it should be possible to use the SC VA or the real SC-55 with the Enhanced Edition, but changing the default MIDI device has been made more difficult since Windows 10, while DOSBox has a specific setting for it.

One of the full soundtracks on youtube that I listened to sounded way simpler (and inferior) than the EE. I specifically searched for the track that was inspired by the Phantasm theme and it sucked.
Here is a complete set of SC-55 recordings of the game's music: https://mega.nz/file/LBlEQTaL#5IZlRE58Ky_c3kvl-gJKsWXmnNxdhxArUNZzpM6jHBE.
 

Child of Malkav

Erudite
Joined
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Messages
3,044
Location
Romania
It has a map. You don't even have to select the map in an MFD panel like you do in the original.

My guess is you missed the mapping module add-on, because it's on a shelf in the cryobay closet and not in the briefcase.
Ok I'll check. Seems I have to adjust to modern interpretations of things.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
15,262
Played the demo a bit for the first time. Finished SS1 about 2 months ago on the highest difficulty (except plot) so I have a pretty good basis for comparison. Thoughts:

- Your ability to jump is limited to like 3 inches into the air. It's ridiculous. There also no mantle ability, only ladders everywhere. This is lame. It's slow to use, interrupts gameplay, and makes you feel weak. It's actually hard to jump off ledges now given that there are guardrails everywhere and the ladders have a very large range at which you snap to being on them, and fall damage is also high. I can also see it being irritating when enemies can shoot you while climbing down ladders. Not a fan at all, mobility is a huge part of SS1. Things don't bode well for later levels where mobility is important and you have skates/turbo/jetpack. Here you can't even get over the safety railings everywhere (I guess the station meets OSHA standards now).

- There's a few area changes. Some for the better (circle back to the lift that takes you to your healing bay from the shodan cores), some mostly irrelevant (added security room to your initial med bay room, which you can unlock to find... nothing), some that are purely there to make up for the worse mobility in the remake and which are therefore bad.

- Recycling items for credits is awfully done. The reason it worked in SS2 is because items gave 1 credit and a clip of 6 bullets cost like 90 credits. In other words you weren't radically breaking the economy if you collected 30 items to recycle in an area because woop-de-fucking-do, you now have 2 bullets. Not even the real armor piercing/anti personnel bullets you needed for tough things, just standard bullets. Here, you get 10 pistol rounds for 4 credits, and items recycle for 1-5 credits apiece. So now when you enter a room and see a bunch of junk (and there's a lot more junk than SS2), you're looking at potentially 50-100 rounds if you recycle.

- Recycling is even worse since you have to take it to a recycler, and manually recycling things is painfully slow to do. This is one of the worst ways to balance a game: just making the best strategy of play tedious. You CAN scrap items in your inventory which stacks to 100 and then take the scrap to a recycler to get about half the recycled value you would by hauling the item itself there (but without needing to backtrack every 5s, which is an improvement, but still annoying to manually click multiple times to scrap every item. Not sure if scrap is actually useful beyond this or if its just a bandaid fix to a awful system.

- To top it off, credits at least in the demo don't even really matter because you can only buy 2 mag pulse clips and 4 pistol clips before the store runs out. That's pathetic, I was running around with around 300 pistol ammo by the end of the first level. Either make credits useful and ammo at least a little scarce or just delete them and the stores from the game.

- Inventory management is awful, you're gonna have no space for shit unless there's huge inventory upgrades available later in the game. About 3/4ths of my inventory was taken up by 3 guns, a wrench, patches and grenades/ammo. SS1 was better where all this stuff you were going to carry around anyway took up separate slots from your normal inventory.

- Secrets are harder to find now given that there seems to be no assistance from software. Don't know if there's any good solution to this other than adding a software that does this back in.

- They made the worst puzzle type in the game (where you literally just ran wires back and forth until you guess right), worse. Now it takes time for the power to filter down and tell you whether you were right, and its more confusing to look at with wires bunched up in 3D space rather than the easy 2D panel of SS1, and the wires aren't colored to make it easy to understand. Total shitshow IMO, and they also don't have the automatic puzzle solver usable item here.

- Cyberspace is cool and obviously improved, but I can also see it being a pain in the ass to navigate if there are bigger and more complex levels.

- Damage taken and dealt seems fairly similar as a baseline. Melee is harder since you don't have 20 feet arms like in SS1. Ranged seems stronger since you can headshot now. In particular this makes the Sparq beam and presumably other energy weapons significantly stronger, something that they didn't really need since they are already free ammo and reasonably powerful. Now you can rely on Sparq beam to kill the random roaming enemy and it barely touches your energy supply.

- Enemies also have a reaction time now to shoot you rather than being instant shoot instant hit superhumans so that's a good change. Enemies get momentarily stunned when you shoot them, which makes sense and is probably a good thing but makes it a bit easy if you get the first shot off. Ninjas now throw grenades, though they kill themselves a lot of the time. The security cyborgs have a burst attack which is pretty cool and will almost certainly kill you if you take the full hit on the hardest difficulty.

- I'm not sure, but there seems to be no random respawns? Nothing was respawning as I was running around clearing the final few rooms and backtracking to do stuff. I think they may only be scripted spawns? That'd be lame. Spawning is also lame, you actually see enemies rising out of the floor from elevator rooms. Just spawn stuff out of midair in rooms that we are far from like normal games.
 
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Trithne

Erudite
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
1,200
Average Manatee cbf quoting and breaking the quote up on phone, but basically:

Yep, jumping is fucked. And they added fall damage to a game that didn't have it, so security and the "nice jump" on storage are going to be shit now.

I didn't mind inventory so much, but the recycler is fucking cancerous. I'll dump the feedback I put in their discord:

The recycler. This is a great example of a nice idea that wasn't taken to its logical conclusion, at which point it becomes a terrible idea. If the recycler just ate damaged weapons (i.e: loot) and leftovers from consumables, it would be a decent system that encourages you to consider picking up the "dead" weapons and applying inventory pressure as a result. (Incidentally, the recycler cannot fit the Assassin's Damaged Assault Rifles. This is clearly against the intended use of it to eat Damaged weapons)

Instead, because of the vaporise system, we've fallen into the modern rpg claptrap of incentivising the player to be a fucking loot gremlin. Because every piece of decorative junk can be picked up, and then vaporised, and the resulting scrap sold for coins at a fairly decent rate, even remotely savvy players will realise that they need to pick up every piece of useless shit on the map and sit there in their inventory, right-click -> vaporising each one individually, then picking up more crap once they have space and vaporising that, until they go back to the recycler. There's no inventory stress from large weapons because you just vaporise them. There's no decision making, you just pick up everything and vaporise it. If this is intended gameplay, please add an "automatically vaporise junk" function.

The wire puzzle is annoying, i ended up using my whiteboard to math it out and find the optimal placements. There are logic probes though, it's a frobbable slot next to the puzzle, at least in the case of the wire ones I found, but I never found a logic Probe.

Enemies respawn, at least on combat 3 they definitely do. They've toned them down a bit from earlier versions though, but if I circled back to the med bed I'd usually find two or three mutants and drones would respawn in the central area.

All in all I'm okay with this, except for the recycler, which needs to be reworked to not reward degenerate play.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
15,262
I didn't mind inventory so much,
This was my inventory after finishing off the shodan cores

WZTZXO1.png

That's 60 slots available. Ignoring the Scrap, there's only 24 slots left. But assuming we're expected to use the scrap/credits system (yes its shit), that's only 17 slots left. And tons of items are 2x2 or 2x3. And in SS1 we were able to carry 6 weapons at a time, and I'm sure we'll find far more weapons later. And later weapons are probably going to be bigger, since the damaged rifles you find are bigger. And there's going to be more medipatches/grenades/etc variety. And there's quest items to carry. The inventory size is already getting on my nerves on floor 1 and I can't image it on later floors.

EDIT: Also, just noticed that patches seem to have a stack limit of 10, should just stack to infinity like in original SS1. That was their whole advantage over the big bulky medkits. But if both medkits and medipatches stack in the inventory to 10 (I'm just guessing, haven't found 10 medkits), then patches just suck.

Enemies respawn, at least on combat 3 they definitely do. They've toned them down a bit from earlier versions though, but if I circled back to the med bed I'd usually find two or three mutants and drones would respawn in the central area.
I found a handful of respawns while I was playing, but then when I ran around for a bit more after finishing the levels I never found more. e.g. I saw (I think) 2 mutants next to the med bed and later 1 security cyborg but nothing more. The floor seems completely emptied of enemies. I'm on combat 3.
 
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Trithne

Erudite
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
1,200
I didn't mind inventory so much,
This was my inventory after finishing off the shodan cores

WZTZXO1.png

That's 60 slots available. Ignoring the Scrap, there's only 24 slots left. But assuming we're expected to use the scrap/credits system (yes its shit), that's only 17 slots left. And tons of items are 2x2 or 2x3. And in SS1 we were able to carry 6 weapons at a time, and I'm sure we'll find far more weapons later. And later weapons are probably going to be bigger, since the damaged rifles you find are bigger. And there's going to be more medipatches/grenades/etc variety. And there's quest items to carry. The inventory size is already getting on my nerves on floor 1 and I can't image it on later floors.

EDIT: Also, just noticed that patches seem to have a stack limit of 10, should just stack to infinity like in original SS1. That was their whole advantage over the big bulky medkits.

Note that they added Resident Evil Item Boxes to the cyborg conversion/resurrection rooms, at least the one on med.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
15,262
Note that they added Resident Evil Item Boxes to the cyborg conversion/resurrection rooms, at least the one on med.

Nice to know. Even still, I want to carry at least a reasonable number of weapons and equipment similar to the original around. Just imagine when all those weapons are replaced by later weapons that take 1-2 more squares each and we have more types of ammo along with more grenade types and mines. If they increased the width and height of the inventory by 2 squares each it might suffice, but I'd rather just see an inventory more like SS1 where certain items stack infinitely and don't take up space (like patches and ammo, maybe guns are fine to keep as they are bulky). Also that item box is small, will probably be only able to store 2 guns by the mid/late game.

Another thing I forgot to note: Grenades are pretty lame. Their radius is pretty small so that its hard to hit multiple enemies, or even 1 enemy if you aren't judging the cook off time well (which is long, and obviously aiming precisely while throwing is a bit hard since they bounce). Should just add like +100-150% to their radius. Insanely deadly to both the player and the enemies? Yes, that makes them fun. You only get like 2 of them for every 100 bullets, they should be fun to use and reliably take out groups.

Also, while I dislike the spawn system (with enemies elevating out of the floor), one thing it would be appropriate for is the trap Shodan spring on you with like 6 cybrogs after you take out her cores at the end of level 1. Unfortunately that doesn't happen here.

btw did anyone get security to 0% to open the secret room? Sadly there''s no map and I'm not sure where to look for more cameras, if they are even reachable without getting to level 2. I'm at 8% security.

EDIT: found the 2 remaining cameras after about 15 mins of running around. Got the secret area, got the magnum. 65 damage/60% AP, nice. Very weird firing sound, incredibly loud and has some kind of built in echo that sounds like a combination of a metallic and underwater reverb. Sadly nothing to use it on, I can confirm with 99% certainty that there is no random spawn system. When the level runs out of enemies and its scripted spawns, its out for good.
 
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RoSoDude

Arcane
Joined
Oct 1, 2016
Messages
750
Played the demo a bit for the first time. Finished SS1 about 2 months ago on the highest difficulty (except plot) so I have a pretty good basis for comparison. Thoughts:

- Your ability to jump is limited to like 3 inches into the air. It's ridiculous. There also no mantle ability, only ladders everywhere. This is lame. It's slow to use, interrupts gameplay, and makes you feel weak. It's actually hard to jump off ledges now given that there are guardrails everywhere and the ladders have a very large range at which you snap to being on them, and fall damage is also high. I can also see it being irritating when enemies can shoot you while climbing down ladders. Not a fan at all, mobility is a huge part of SS1. Things don't bode well for later levels where mobility is important and you have skates/turbo/jetpack. Here you can't even get over the safety railings everywhere (I guess the station meets OSHA standards now).
I keep wondering about this aspect. SS1 is a game where you zoom around on turbo rocket skates; the best update to the level geometry would have been to emphasize the angled surfaces and give more opportunities for expressive movement. It seems like they've done the exact opposite.

- There's a few area changes. Some for the better (circle back to the lift that takes you to your healing bay from the shodan cores), some mostly irrelevant (added security room to your initial med bay room, which you can unlock to find... nothing), some that are purely there to make up for the worse mobility in the remake and which are therefore bad.
Unless I'm misunderstanding you, the bolded part is also in the original; you unlock the bulkhead from the other side to make a path from the elevator back to the healing bed.

- Recycling items for credits is awfully done. The reason it worked in SS2 is because items gave 1 credit and a clip of 6 bullets cost like 90 credits. In other words you weren't radically breaking the economy if you collected 30 items to recycle in an area because woop-de-fucking-do, you now have 2 bullets. Not even the real armor piercing/anti personnel bullets you needed for tough things, just standard bullets. Here, you get 10 pistol rounds for 4 credits, and items recycle for 1-5 credits apiece. So now when you enter a room and see a bunch of junk (and there's a lot more junk than SS2), you're looking at potentially 50-100 rounds if you recycle.

- Recycling is even worse since you have to take it to a recycler, and manually recycling things is painfully slow to do. This is one of the worst ways to balance a game: just making the best strategy of play tedious. You CAN scrap items in your inventory which stacks to 100 and then take the scrap to a recycler to get about half the recycled value you would by hauling the item itself there (but without needing to backtrack every 5s, which is an improvement, but still annoying to manually click multiple times to scrap every item. Not sure if scrap is actually useful beyond this or if its just a bandaid fix to a awful system.

- To top it off, credits at least in the demo don't even really matter because you can only buy 2 mag pulse clips and 4 pistol clips before the store runs out. That's pathetic, I was running around with around 300 pistol ammo by the end of the first level. Either make credits useful and ammo at least a little scarce or just delete them and the stores from the game.

- Inventory management is awful, you're gonna have no space for shit unless there's huge inventory upgrades available later in the game. About 3/4ths of my inventory was taken up by 3 guns, a wrench, patches and grenades/ammo. SS1 was better where all this stuff you were going to carry around anyway took up separate slots from your normal inventory.
Spot on analysis on SS2's recycler balance. It's almost hard to believe how they stumbled into such a mess with it here. I've read elsewhere that there are now weapon upgrades you can spend credits on (good in concept, who knows about the execution), but I question the overall integration into gameplay. I was wondering what the point of the "Vaporize" option in the inventory was when there's also a recycler station, and you're saying it's really just a less efficient option when you can't be bothered to drag an item in your inventory? I also noticed that 10 scrap can be vaporized into... 0 scrap. I don't even know why that's an option.

- Secrets are harder to find now given that there seems to be no assistance from software. Don't know if there's any good solution to this other than adding a software that does this back in.
It was a fun part of the original with the help system off when you could click on every texture to get a brief description of what it was, and identify secret rooms from deliberate texture seams and the like. Now we have the classic problem of greater graphical fidelity leading to worse gameplay readability.
- They made the worst puzzle type in the game (where you literally just ran wires back and forth until you guess right), worse. Now it takes time for the power to filter down and tell you whether you were right, and its more confusing to look at with wires bunched up in 3D space rather than the easy 2D panel of SS1, and the wires aren't colored to make it easy to understand. Total shitshow IMO, and they also don't have the automatic puzzle solver usable item here.
I've argued before that the original grid and wire puzzles were much better. They've axed the color combination aspect (thank god) but it still seems overcomplicated for no real benefit, when the original design was fine as long as you understood how to feel it out.

Overall, the remake just doesn't evoke the feeling of the original game whatsoever. It's faithful, but in all the ways that don't matter (one-to-one recreation of the original level layouts with similar item placements, superficial elements of the presentation), while not really offering a cohesive identity or atmosphere. I'm also not convinced that the gameplay has been updated in a meaningful way, which is an absolute necessity now that the old control scheme and UI micromanagement is gone. Adding an economy and inventory grid is a step in the right direction, but not the way they're doing it now.
 
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Trithne

Erudite
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
1,200
They also added a door in the room adjacent to the resurrector that opens to the endpoint of the maintenance tunnels which has to be unlocked from that side - in the original game that's a window.
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,777
Seems that the game has filtered you before the tutorial even started.
I finished the original. Guess what? It had a map. This piece of shit doesn't. It's missing features. You'd know that if you played the original. That is if you even know there was an original in the first place.
Again: you literally got filtered before opening the first locked door. Yet you somehow think you're in position for posturing and retarded ratings?
 
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Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
15,262
Unless I'm misunderstanding you, the bolded part is also in the original; you unlock the bulkhead from the other side to make a path from the elevator back to the healing bed.
No, it's another pathway through the vents. When you go left from the healing bed room down the elevator that you need to complete a puzzle to activate. Taking a right in those vents leads to an area where you can look at the shodan core region of the map, but it doesn't actually connect there since there's a screen wall IIRC (also leads to a small radioactive room).

That said it is kind of a superfluous path with the one you mention. Also slower because you have to deal with multiple ladders.

I was wondering what the point of the "Vaporize" option in the inventory was when there's also a recycler station, and you're saying it's really just a less efficient option when you can't be bothered to drag an item in your inventory? I also noticed that 10 scrap can be vaporized into... 0 scrap. I don't even know why that's an option.
There's no use for the scrap in the demo, and I ended with 600 as you can see from my screenshot, so I'm going to assume yes. It's basically just a way to get 1/2 as much scrap without needing to walk back to the recycler and go through the recycling crap. Sometimes rounding gets you 1 more or less credit but looking at item values the ratio holds out. It's not like there's valuable small items that are worth a lot to recycle but little to scrap. or vice versa.

My guess is that the formula takes the amount of scrap an item would give, divides by 5, then rounds up to find the recycle value, except when the items base scrap value is 3 or less in which case it recycles for nothing (in which instance vaporizing gives something while scrapping doesn't).

Also the green bar in the middle of the wrench looks like it should be a bubble level except there's no bubble. Immersion ruined, game is developed by soyboys who've never done real work in their life.

CcaPXze.png
 
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