Starfield Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Perkel]

CDPR redengine is was pretty friendly to modding but was severely limited by assets.

This I don't follow, though, did you mean it was "severely limited to assets?" 'Cause that's one of the things that definitively hamstrung CBP's modding scene, user-made content was limited to asset replacers and superficially-integrated scripting.

CDPR redengine is was pretty friendly to modding but was severely limited by assets.

 

[racofer]

modders will fix it

Yes, the same way Skyrim is fixed now 11 years and 120,000 mods later. All the issues have simply disappeared.

FO4 is on the same track as well. Only 4 more years and 80,000 mods to go, so any moment now.

 

[Gargaune]

Uh-oh...

Climbable Ladders for Settlements​

Adds three different heights of craftable ladders that you and NPC's can climb in your settlements. All animated.

Todd, those pesky Fo4 modders are stealing Starfield's revolutionary innovations...

 

[Silverfish]

Todd, those pesky Fo4 modders are stealing Starfield's revolutionary innovations...

It's cool. Bethesda will just slap them with a cease and desist like they did to the guys who were making that Morrowind mod for Skyrim just a little to close to Dragonborn's release.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Todd, those pesky Fo4 modders are stealing Starfield's revolutionary innovations...

It's cool. Bethesda will just slap them with a cease and desist like they did to the guys who were making that Morrowind mod for Skyrim just a little to close to Dragonborn's release.

not aware of bethesda C&Ding any mods

 

[Risewild]

Todd, those pesky Fo4 modders are stealing Starfield's revolutionary innovations...

It's cool. Bethesda will just slap them with a cease and desist like they did to the guys who were making that Morrowind mod for Skyrim just a little to close to Dragonborn's release.

not aware of bethesda C&Ding any mods

They C&D a high-resolution world map mod for Fallout 2. Yes, that's a 2. There's actual posts by the author of the mod showing the C&D document he received somewhere in NMA, but I don't have time to search for it, so that link will have to do.
They also C&D a free fan game made on the FOnline engine (which isn't Bethesda property).

 

[Red7]

Todd, those pesky Fo4 modders are stealing Starfield's revolutionary innovations...

It's cool. Bethesda will just slap them with a cease and desist like they did to the guys who were making that Morrowind mod for Skyrim just a little to close to Dragonborn's release.

not aware of bethesda C&Ding any mods

They C&D a high-resolution world map mod for Fallout 2. Yes, that's a 2. There's actual posts by the author of the mod showing the C&D document he received somewhere in NMA, but I don't have time to search for it, so that link will have to do.
They also C&D a free fan game made on the FOnline engine (which isn't Bethesda property).

how is that relevant. ip laws are joke unless ppl are stupid enough to dox themselves like with using jewtreon. there is no excuse for that, u can take donations without engaging kyc with Bitcoin.

i cant recall when was last time i was using non pirated software. pirated soft is faster, lighter and safer than malware bloated, auto "updating" (downgrading) products for sheep.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Todd, those pesky Fo4 modders are stealing Starfield's revolutionary innovations...

It's cool. Bethesda will just slap them with a cease and desist like they did to the guys who were making that Morrowind mod for Skyrim just a little to close to Dragonborn's release.

not aware of bethesda C&Ding any mods

They C&D a high-resolution world map mod for Fallout 2. Yes, that's a 2. There's actual posts by the author of the mod showing the C&D document he received somewhere in NMA, but I don't have time to search for it, so that link will have to do.
They also C&D a free fan game made on the FOnline engine (which isn't Bethesda property).

redistributing assets from the games.

Because he had actual Fallout art assets in the game. That's the difference.

 

[Gargaune]

Bethesda's been pretty great with letting modders do as they please, going as far as trying to remake their old games on new platforms as long as they don't port assets across. Fo4 Point Lookout doesn't even check for the original DLC's install and BGS are happy to ignore it. The only mainstream developers that I know of who went farther with a "do whatever, man" attitude were CDPR and GSC Games, which is why you can find Witcher and STALKER assets in Skyrim and Fallout 3/4 mods.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Bethesda's been pretty great with letting modders do as they please, going as far as trying to remake their old games on new platforms as long as they don't port assets across.

you can get around this as long as you don't redistribute the assets see e.g., Tale of Two Wastelands which uses an install script to move files from a FO3 install.

 

[Gargaune]

you can get around this as long as you don't redistribute the assets see e.g., Tale of Two Wastelands which uses an install script to move files from a FO3 install.

That's iffy, when the Fo4 Capital Wasteland project asked about reusing the original VO, Bethesda told them that's not okay. Now I don't know the details, whether they specifically asked about an install-time repackage option, but all Fo4 remake mods have moved to recording new VO since even though they all intend to check for original installs on setup. It's possible the actors' union is an issue. Maybe it would be fine or maybe Bethesda's just turning a blind eye to ToTW as long as no one whines.

 

[vortex]

Starfield was postponed not because of the bugs but because of God of WAR Ragnarock. Now you know.

God of War Ragnarok is reportedly such a titan of a game, that other studios are moving out of its way and delaying their titles. God of War Ragnarok is easily one of the most anticipated titles on the horizon and is one of the games expected to be in the awards race at the end of 2022. The game was announced in 2020, just over two years after its predecessor was released, and was marketed as a key title for the then-upcoming PlayStation 5. The game was then expected to arrive in 2021, but was sadly delayed, something very few people were surprised by given how unrealistic that timeline seemed for the developers. There's still a lot of mystery surrounding God of War Ragnarok, but the game's release date was recently revealed and ensured that it would have a prime slot in the holiday season.

https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/g...ase-date-other-game-delays-playstation-5-ps5/

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Starfield was postponed not because of the bugs but because of God of WAR Ragnarock. Now you know.

God of War Ragnarok is reportedly such a titan of a game, that other studios are moving out of its way and delaying their titles. God of War Ragnarok is easily one of the most anticipated titles on the horizon and is one of the games expected to be in the awards race at the end of 2022. The game was announced in 2020, just over two years after its predecessor was released, and was marketed as a key title for the then-upcoming PlayStation 5. The game was then expected to arrive in 2021, but was sadly delayed, something very few people were surprised by given how unrealistic that timeline seemed for the developers. There's still a lot of mystery surrounding God of War Ragnarok, but the game's release date was recently revealed and ensured that it would have a prime slot in the holiday season.

https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/g...ase-date-other-game-delays-playstation-5-ps5/

Starfield isn't releasing for the PS5.

 

[vortex]

Starfield isn't releasing for the PS5.

Doesn't matter. God of war had swept all of moneros in 2018. Ragnarok was postponed to 2022 and now is affecting game launches.

Because some comic book website gave you this idea? You offer no proof of your theory.

I don't have any proof but I bet you that's the case.

 

[Late Bloomer]

Starfield isn't releasing for the PS5.

Doesn't matter. God of war had swept all of moneros in 2018. Ragnarok was postponed to 2022 and now is affecting game launches.

Because some comic book website gave you this idea? You offer no proof of your theory.

 

[Silverfish]

You offer no proof of your theory.

"Do you have an accredited study to back your claim?"

 

[likash]

I hope the horde of Todd Howards stans around here have learned their lesson after 76 and won't pre-order like retards.

 

[Risewild]

you can get around this as long as you don't redistribute the assets see e.g., Tale of Two Wastelands which uses an install script to move files from a FO3 install.

That's iffy, when the Fo4 Capital Wasteland project asked about reusing the original VO, Bethesda told them that's not okay. Now I don't know the details, whether they specifically asked about an install-time repackage option, but all Fo4 remake mods have moved to recording new VO since even though they all intend to check for original installs on setup. It's possible the actors' union is an issue. Maybe it would be fine or maybe Bethesda's just turning a blind eye to ToTW as long as no one whines.

It's a different case. They wanted to just grab the audio files from Fallout 3 and pack them with their mod. Bethesda said they can't allow that because the audio files are under different legal mumbo-jumbo and the actors association (or whatever it's called) would be able to sue Bethesda for allowing the redistribution of files that Bethesda owned the copyright for just Fallout 3 and no other game.

Our TTW installer does extract the FO3 files (from a legal English installation) into new temporary files, patches them, encodes them for the correct format (if they are audio files), repacks these new files, copies them into the TTW install directory and then deletes the temporary files (it does other stuff too like adding TTW files that don't exist in FO3 or FNV, or extracting and patching some FNV files too, etc.).

People suggested to the FO4 Capital Wasteland team that they should make an installer like TTW does, but they didn't like that idea for whatever reasons they had.

 

[Late Bloomer]

You offer no proof of your theory.

"Do you have an accredited study to back your claim?"

 

[ShaggyMoose]

This reminded me of one of the more memorable parts of F:NV...

 

[Gargaune]

It's a different case. They wanted to just grab the audio files from Fallout 3 and pack them with their mod. Bethesda said they can't allow that because the audio files are under different legal mumbo-jumbo and the actors association (or whatever it's called) would be able to sue Bethesda for allowing the redistribution of files that Bethesda owned the copyright for just Fallout 3 and no other game.

Our TTW installer does extract the FO3 files (from a legal English installation) into new temporary files, patches them, encodes them for the correct format (if they are audio files), repacks these new files, copies them into the TTW install directory and then deletes the temporary files (it does other stuff too like adding TTW files that don't exist in FO3 or FNV, or extracting and patching some FNV files too, etc.).

People suggested to the FO4 Capital Wasteland team that they should make an installer like TTW does, but they didn't like that idea for whatever reasons they had.

Interesting! I suspected it was the usual actors union bullshit at fault, but could you explain some more about the legal differences between the two approaches? So Bethesda has to shut down a mod that directly distributes copyrighted VO assets, but they're not obligated to interfere with the distribution of a tool that facilitates the same result on the user's end, is that it? Or is one simply easier to turn a blind eye to than the other?

And can you speculate on why TCW might not have wanted to do what TTW does? I know the project nearly shut down when they were told they couldn't reuse FO3's VO, before they decided to bite the bullet and record everything again, and then F4NV adopted the same approach.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

I hope that Starfield will have the same graphics of Fallout 3/NV.

 

[GentlemanCthulhu]

I hope the horde of Todd Howards stans around here have learned their lesson after 76 and won't pre-order like retards.

Todd's never done anything wrong in his life.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

So Bethesda has to shut down a mod that directly distributes copyrighted VO assets, but they're not obligated to interfere with the distribution of a tool that facilitates the same result on the user's end, is that it? Or is one simply easier to turn a blind eye to than the other?

The main issue is distributing assets Bethesda owns, which is generally always a no-no unless given explicit permission by the developer. I think Bethesda mostly looks the other way here, but they obviously have extra outside pressure applied for voice files.
A script that simply moves & processes existing files on your own storage device is in violation of no laws. OTOH, if Bethesda decided they didn't like it they could of course likely go after you for using their IP to begin with, but I'd have to go read over their terms of use/EULA again.

 

[Risewild]

It's a different case. They wanted to just grab the audio files from Fallout 3 and pack them with their mod. Bethesda said they can't allow that because the audio files are under different legal mumbo-jumbo and the actors association (or whatever it's called) would be able to sue Bethesda for allowing the redistribution of files that Bethesda owned the copyright for just Fallout 3 and no other game.

Our TTW installer does extract the FO3 files (from a legal English installation) into new temporary files, patches them, encodes them for the correct format (if they are audio files), repacks these new files, copies them into the TTW install directory and then deletes the temporary files (it does other stuff too like adding TTW files that don't exist in FO3 or FNV, or extracting and patching some FNV files too, etc.).

People suggested to the FO4 Capital Wasteland team that they should make an installer like TTW does, but they didn't like that idea for whatever reasons they had.

Interesting! I suspected it was the usual actors union bullshit at fault, but could you explain some more about the legal differences between the two approaches? So Bethesda has to shut down a mod that directly distributes copyrighted VO assets, but they're not obligated to interfere with the distribution of a tool that facilitates the same result on the user's end, is that it? Or is one simply easier to turn a blind eye to than the other?

And can you speculate on why TCW might not have wanted to do what TTW does? I know the project nearly shut down when they were told they couldn't reuse FO3's VO, before they decided to bite the bullet and record everything again, and then F4NV adopted the same approach.

Rusty is right in the above post. We can do whatever we want with the game files privately, as long as we don't distribute them, Bethesda is pretty chill about it because there's no law that prevents the user from grabbing assets from games they legally own and using them in different games as long as the user has the know-how to do so.

But as soon as someone starts distributing those assets without permission, then it becomes a copyright infringement, for the company that owns those files. Voice and music files are used by gaming companies under licenses (unless they are royalty free), so if Bethesda (in this case) goes ahead and gives permission for modders to use these files, then they themselves are breaking the legally bound license, which means they will get into legal trouble and can be put into court or have to pay a hefty amount out of court and then forced to revoke the permission they gave.

Fun fact, Bethesda asked the Nexus not to host TTW when TTW was first born, because Bethesda was worried we would distribute assets from the games. This was one of the reasons why we made our installer the way it is, it is also the reason why TTW is not on the Nexus to this day.

About FO4 CW team and their decision to not have an installer like TTW... I can only speculate, but I can come up with a few reasons why that might be:
First, getting someone that knows how to create and maintain the installer is a pain. TTW has had some versions delayed in the past because of this same reason.
Second, if the mod requires an installer then it can't be automatically installed by mod managers. So no one-click download and install, no including it in Nexus collections, users that are too used to this easy stuff will get problems installing it, it increases the customer support that a team needs to offer to users.
Third, maybe Bethesda telling them that they couldn't legally allow it scared the team and they decided to not bother with an installer, because what if Bethesda shuts them down later for other reasons and all of that?