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STALKER Shadow of Chernobyl Mod Thread

DramaticPopcorn

Guest
I thought the gameplay, at least as far as the shooting, was fine. I still found SoC's world a bit vacant and the attempt at factions/quests poorly implemented.

SoC was better in that regard, you were at least sort of isolated and on your own most of the time whereas in CoP there's people everywhere and wait for YOU to investigate those anomalies, occupying those neat little PoI's on world map.
 

RRRrrr

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
2,308
Am I the only one who can't view the descriptions of items from merchants properly? Some item's descriptions go out of the screen.
(MISERY 2.0)
 

RRRrrr

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
2,308
The knife seems to be useless right now. I tried killing a random rookie stalker with it and it didn't do anything. I hit him about 10 times and nothing happens. Especially annoying when you are playing the hardcocre mod without any equipment at the beginning.
Is it just me or now you can't get close to stalkers due to invisible walls or something? You can stand at about 1 meter from them. It wasn't like that in the vanilla/misery 1.
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
7,631
Is it just me or now you can't get close to stalkers due to invisible walls or something? You can stand at about 1 meter from them. It wasn't like that in the vanilla/misery 1.

I've yet to play Misery 2.0 but this seems like something you get with increased FOV.
 

baturinsky

Arcane
Joined
Apr 21, 2013
Messages
5,623
Location
Russia
I like vanilla mechanic in CoP a lot. You can permasprint without any artifacts, as long as you keep burden under 20.
 
Joined
Mar 18, 2009
Messages
7,631
This might actually be the case as I set the FoV to 90. Any idea how much the FoV in the original game is?

I think it's around 50-55. STALKER uses VERTICAL FOV values, not HORIZONTAL, so setting it to 90 is fucking crazy dude. You should be getting major fish-eye effect. I use vertical FOV around 60-63, that makes it around 90 in horizontal FOV terms.
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
I thought the gameplay, at least as far as the shooting, was fine. I still found SoC's world a bit vacant and the attempt at factions/quests poorly implemented.
Quests are actually THE area CoP improved the most. They are reasonably developed, well written and even come with some branching and substantial C&C.

The other major improvements are variety of meds and upgrade mechanics.

DraQ - do you happen to know if one can just disable the Misery music, or replace it with the older one? I am fine with the mod if not for that small detail..
Try fiddling with the files. If the music files are accessible deleting them (make backups) should cause the game to revert to packed-up defaults. I think I did it in Misery 1.0.

STALKER in general is very tolerant of missing resources (ruskie engineering I guess - don't throw fatals if you can still push on :salute: ), although attempting to access missing resource will create a lot of nasty lag.
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
6,207
Location
The island of misfit mascots
Let's just sink 3 facts into the debate. Unfortunately I'm too lazy to get links, but they're readily available:
(1) Firstly, EA stock has been on a steady downward slide for YEARS if not DECADES (years in terms of constant slide, decade+ if looking at overall up and down). Any notion that they are somehow meeting the idiocy of the market is factually incorrect.
(2) Bioware, even with their most expensive projects, are a near-insignificant blimp on EA's margins. Bioware aren't pulling down EA any more than any other division (and much less than most due to comparative cost factors and loyal market). This is actually part of EA's problem. I've made this comparison before, with the same proviso - I fucking hate Walmart. But compare Walmart with EA and you can see how from a consumer perspective just why game publishing is so undercompetitive. Walmart started as pure mass market company. Then as other companies entered the market, it segmented more and more. It even pumped fuckloads of money into ventures that had completely different skillsets and business models to their usual tactic of desigining systems around the least trained, least paid staff available (e.g. car servicing). It would have to take decades - at absolute best - to even cut even there - but that's not the point. They aren't trying to hit a home run with each product. They just want to make sure that if there's a product out there someone wants - no matter how few people want it - they're the ones to deliver it. Fuck all people want their cars serviced at a shitty walmart station - but they'll provide that service to create a huge advantage over any other chain retail store entering the same market, denying their competitors the market, and because in 10 years time they just might start to get a trickle of profits over costs that might just build into something significant. EA want to hit the ball out of the park - they want THE solution to their troubles. Good companies scrounge like they're the filthiest beggar around. Don't get me wrong - self-respect is a great and necessary part of the ARTISTIC end of things - game development, writing, direciting and so forth. But the creatives are served really poorly when the business folk start acting just as pretentious, if not more pretentious, than they are. Great capitalists should have no sense of shame. One on hand, that DOES mean that EA should probably flog a lot more shovelware under a different studio name, with about 30 degrees of corporate separation so nobody traces it back to them - anything for a profit. It also means that they have no fucking excuse for turning their noses up indie and crpg markets when they aren't making their own payroll in the mass market as it is.

If Walmart was a major game publisher (and there was a competitive market) there'd be a LOT more REALLY shit games around. Games so shit, that AAA would actually have meaning by virtue of the sheer quantity of shovelware out there (though if they were smart, they'd use corporate shells, so that their shoverlware companies didn't taint the reputation of their AAA companies, and their indie/experimental companies could have freedom without the ability to blow large budgets, so they could test potential recruits by saying 'here's a 3 year contract with broad control but really limited funds to make something interesting - we'll put you in our indie studio so you can't harm our main brand, and so you have a ready-made set of crpg/indie/adventure/mould-breaking (e.g. the Void) breaking-games with a built in market to appeal to. If you can keep up our sales quota for those guys, we'll give you the option of earning a lot more cash on one our our souless AAA titles (because most of you don't actually give a shit whether the game you are working on is great - after all you can still PLAY great games). They'd be scrapping for every possible dollar around like a cheap hobo. The fact that Bioware gets dismissed as 'too minor to affect EA's bottom line' is symptomatic of the problem - EA has been sinking for so long because they just don't get that there is no majic supergame that can save them in the long term. A new CoD might lift things for a year - but then they'll be 10 clones and they're back to square one. Lower the pretentiousness and scrap for every fucking dollar from every fucking market they can, and their stock might stop crashing.

(3) It's an indictment upon the insane undercompetitiveness of the publisher market that EA doesn't have execs jumping out of windors (or at least yearly turnover of CEOs and most of their major management). It's not just that they're failing - it's that they don't seem to have any plan for changing the way things have been run for the past decade, and hence no plan for NOT failing. In any other industry, you'd be shown the door. Maybe with a golden handshake, but you certainly wouldn't be running things if your mentality was 'let's keep doing the shit that has consistently crashed our stock price for years.
 

Zewp

Arcane
Joined
Sep 30, 2012
Messages
3,604
Codex 2013
Let's just sink 3 facts into the debate. Unfortunately I'm too lazy to get links, but they're readily available:
(1) Firstly, EA stock has been on a steady downward slide for YEARS if not DECADES (years in terms of constant slide, decade+ if looking at overall up and down). Any notion that they are somehow meeting the idiocy of the market is factually incorrect.
(2) Bioware, even with their most expensive projects, are a near-insignificant blimp on EA's margins. Bioware aren't pulling down EA any more than any other division (and much less than most due to comparative cost factors and loyal market). This is actually part of EA's problem. I've made this comparison before, with the same proviso - I fucking hate Walmart. But compare Walmart with EA and you can see how from a consumer perspective just why game publishing is so undercompetitive. Walmart started as pure mass market company. Then as other companies entered the market, it segmented more and more. It even pumped fuckloads of money into ventures that had completely different skillsets and business models to their usual tactic of desigining systems around the least trained, least paid staff available (e.g. car servicing). It would have to take decades - at absolute best - to even cut even there - but that's not the point. They aren't trying to hit a home run with each product. They just want to make sure that if there's a product out there someone wants - no matter how few people want it - they're the ones to deliver it. Fuck all people want their cars serviced at a shitty walmart station - but they'll provide that service to create a huge advantage over any other chain retail store entering the same market, denying their competitors the market, and because in 10 years time they just might start to get a trickle of profits over costs that might just build into something significant. EA want to hit the ball out of the park - they want THE solution to their troubles. Good companies scrounge like they're the filthiest beggar around. Don't get me wrong - self-respect is a great and necessary part of the ARTISTIC end of things - game development, writing, direciting and so forth. But the creatives are served really poorly when the business folk start acting just as pretentious, if not more pretentious, than they are. Great capitalists should have no sense of shame. One on hand, that DOES mean that EA should probably flog a lot more shovelware under a different studio name, with about 30 degrees of corporate separation so nobody traces it back to them - anything for a profit. It also means that they have no fucking excuse for turning their noses up indie and crpg markets when they aren't making their own payroll in the mass market as it is.

If Walmart was a major game publisher (and there was a competitive market) there'd be a LOT more REALLY shit games around. Games so shit, that AAA would actually have meaning by virtue of the sheer quantity of shovelware out there (though if they were smart, they'd use corporate shells, so that their shoverlware companies didn't taint the reputation of their AAA companies, and their indie/experimental companies could have freedom without the ability to blow large budgets, so they could test potential recruits by saying 'here's a 3 year contract with broad control but really limited funds to make something interesting - we'll put you in our indie studio so you can't harm our main brand, and so you have a ready-made set of crpg/indie/adventure/mould-breaking (e.g. the Void) breaking-games with a built in market to appeal to. If you can keep up our sales quota for those guys, we'll give you the option of earning a lot more cash on one our our souless AAA titles (because most of you don't actually give a shit whether the game you are working on is great - after all you can still PLAY great games). They'd be scrapping for every possible dollar around like a cheap hobo. The fact that Bioware gets dismissed as 'too minor to affect EA's bottom line' is symptomatic of the problem - EA has been sinking for so long because they just don't get that there is no majic supergame that can save them in the long term. A new CoD might lift things for a year - but then they'll be 10 clones and they're back to square one. Lower the pretentiousness and scrap for every fucking dollar from every fucking market they can, and their stock might stop crashing.

(3) It's an indictment upon the insane undercompetitiveness of the publisher market that EA doesn't have execs jumping out of windors (or at least yearly turnover of CEOs and most of their major management). It's not just that they're failing - it's that they don't seem to have any plan for changing the way things have been run for the past decade, and hence no plan for NOT failing. In any other industry, you'd be shown the door. Maybe with a golden handshake, but you certainly wouldn't be running things if your mentality was 'let's keep doing the shit that has consistently crashed our stock price for years.


Bro, I think you posted in the wrong thread.
 

someone else

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
6,888
Location
In the window
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
What exactly does it do? Google didn't help much.
http://www.moddb.com/mods/stalker-misery/forum/thread/unofficial-patch-for-yall

It breaks and unbalances the game in other ways. You can choose the fixes as well as balance it yourself.
The unofficial patch does not fix the rare ammo drop.
To get ammo drop by making commmunity item drops work better:
edit "death_loot_settings.ltx" in items folder
change:
[item_create_factor]
level_0 = 1.00
level_1 = 1.00
level_2 = 1.00
level_3 = 1.00

[community_item_create_chance]
zombied = 0.8 ; 0.8
bandit = 0.9 ; 0.9
ecolog = 1.0 ; 1.0
stalker = 1.0 ; 1.0
freedom = 1.0 ; 1.0
dolg = 1.0 ; 1.0
army = 1.2 ; 1.2
killer = 1.2 ; 1.2
monolith = 1.0 ; 1.0
[rank_item_create_chance]
novice = 0.8 ; 0.8
experienced = 1.0 ; 1.0
veteran = 1.1 ; 1.1
master = 1.2 ; 1.2
elite = 1.4 ; 1.4
You might want to reduce the drop rate of roubles.
 

someone else

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Feb 2, 2008
Messages
6,888
Location
In the window
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
While we wait for the Misery patch you guys can watch me play:

Assault class starting shootout at Ranger Station.
I keep moving backwards because of fear of grenades.
How do you force 720p quality for embeded videos?
 

Metro

Arcane
Beg Auditor
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
Metro said:
I still found SoC's world a bit vacant

I do get what you mean, but isn't that the point of the zone? That it's not flourisihing with life and people?

I meant more in the way of actual content. There isn't much point in exploring. Maybe finding an artifact but those are often given out as rewards to the numerous filler/MMO style sidequests.
 

skacky

3D Realms
Developer
Joined
Mar 5, 2013
Messages
2,506
Location
The City
My Assaulter save got corrupt and I began a Sniper playthrough instead. I baited all the mercs at their station in Zaton in the pipe and I already have quite a bit of equipment, which is always nice. I also finally decided to give Clear Sky another chance and made it through Limansk. The bandages are really retarded in the game, seriously.
 

Surf Solar

cannot into womynz
Joined
Jan 8, 2011
Messages
8,837
I meant more in the way of actual content. There isn't much point in exploring. Maybe finding an artifact but those are often given out as rewards to the numerous filler/MMO style sidequests.

You didnt play Misery, did you ?


I don't think Metro is the type who enjoys the more atmospheric/ambience challenges Misery introduces (which is not a negative thing, before someone calls me out on that)
 

Silva

Arcane
Joined
Jul 17, 2005
Messages
4,920
Location
Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
Well, I dont know if its Misery or the very CoP that does it, but the point is that the game corrects the exploration aspect of SoC (that was really innocuous, as Metro put it).
 

Behelit

Augur
Joined
Sep 26, 2012
Messages
103
The philosophy behind Misery 2.0

OK - I'll start with admiting that I am the guy personally responsible for balance and what you're experiencing - I am the gameplay lead for this project responsible for in-game implementation of all features (many of which I have constructed from ground up) and rest of the team has trusted me the responsibility on 'how the game is gonna play out in the end'. Please know that everything which is happening is done entirely on purpose and has been thought out and tested multiple times.

Now - I have not stated above to defend the current approach and state that it has to remain like that - on the contrary - I love balancing gameplay and there is no more fun thing for me than discussing it and setting stuff in-game accordingly (unfortunately around 50% of time I was spending on fixing bugs - and I actaully consider it an achievement how 'stable' the mod is now as it was way worse and few dozen nights was spend to iron out stuff which would prevent release altogheter).

I have red very carefully every work you've written above + many other places were ppl have put feedback regarding the mod. I am not saddened or dissappointed in any way as everything you've stated has been more or less forseen to happen (I'll explain below) - on the other hand I was not suspecting that it will back-fire as much as it apparently did.

Below - I will put my 'reply' in points / statements regarding how things were approached conceptualy and why. Main reason for this is not to defend the current situation - this is a project made to people afterall and it has to be adjusted towards general demand. Still I would like everyone to take below statements into account and provide feedback in some relation to them, in sort of way:
"OK I understand what your wanted to do but it failed / requires improvement because..."

OK, so here we go:

1. First and foremost please undestand that what is crucial for the gameplay is that I wanted to take the control over the experience out of the player's hands and make it so that its the world which enforces reaction rather than the player who can all the time choose what he wants to do.
Inspiration here was mainly taken from two games:
* Fallout 1 / 2 - go to wrong part of wasteland at the beggining of the game and you wont survive
* Gothic 1 / 2 - same as above - certain parts of the map / enemies were impossible to take out until the player progressed

2. Since Stalker is not an RPG game and the is obviously no leveling - the only way to make above happen is by restricting certain possibilities equipment-wise. In other words - it was my principle to restrict certain actions until you equip yourself adequately to be able to do certain stuff without frustration. I have assumed here that if certain thing makes you save / reload 30 times - you will refrain from doing this and rather think about doing something else for a while and returning to the 'impossible' activity once you can do it without frustration. So frustration is a tool I wanted to use to achieve and enforce above-mentioned sand-box restrictions and game progression.
Inspiration here is for ex.
* X series / EVE on-line - you begin in very tiny ship and its not a really good idea to try to destroy a mamoth ship with it right? On the contrary - thru the first 20+ hours of gameplay you should totally avoid combat and only do trading / scavenging.

3. So very large portion of gameplay desing has went into creating impossible situations (generating endless frustration) and then >>>> placing tools in-game and charging those tools properly which can make those impossible situations very much possible, non-frustrating or even easy.
This is an attempt to move the difficulty accent from the difficulty of the certain situation (which still should be challanging but deffinately not impossible and frustrating) into difficulty of preparing to certain situation (progressing enough withing allowed boundaries to aquire equipment allowing to takle cerain odd).

Above is also connected with breaking of regular game-proggresion - I did my best so that first clearing Zaton fully >>> moving to Jupiter is no longer the proper way.
Proper way - is to first clear all 'easy encounters' on both maps >>>> moving to clear 'hard encouters' on both maps when they are no longer impossible.

4. Below is the list of general areas to which sand-box gameplay in Misery has been divided to with 'tools' which make turn them from being impossible / frustrating ones into manageble / easy ones:

I. Hunting light mutants >>>> impossible / frustrating until player aquires shotgun / pistol with anti-tissue ammo

II. Clearing light anomaly fields (radiation, electrical) >>>> impossible / frustrating until player aquires gasmask (actually electrical ones dont require anything at all)

III. Clearing medium anomaly fields (acid) >>>> impossible / frustrating until player aquires SSP Headgear Set (screen helmet) or articats supporting the gasmask which is inadequate on its own

IV. Hunting lower-ranked humans >>>> impossible / frustrating until player aquires at least light combat armor (Sunrise Suit and derivative) and a weapon of choice with a supply of armor-piercing rounds (also supply of pain-reducing drugs is usefull, especially for recon)

V. Clearing heavy anomaly fields (fire) >>>> impossible / frustrating until player aquires SSP suit or SEVA suit (with SEVA being also the combat armor allowing to earch anomalys and fighting during a single expedition)

VI. Hunting heavy / psi mutants >>>> impossible / frustrating until player aquires explosive weapon / mines / supply of anti-tissue ammo. For psi mutant also headgear and anti-psi drugs are essential

VII. Hunting high-ranked NPCs / doing heavy-combat quests / going to Pripyat >>>> impossible / frustrating until player aquires heavy combat armor and hi-tier customized rifle with AP ammo

It has been made absolutely sure and it has been tested - than once appropriate 'tool' for certain stage of proggresion is attained the activity can be conducted in non-frustrating, fluent way. However trying to go against it - and tackle certain stage without the tool is to be almost impossible.

This concept has succeded - you can rely on this mechanic - just try it in-game or test it with this notion in mind.

Now...

WHERE IT FAILED?

Basically the main reason is I think is that that people are not put off from doing something by the sheer frustration and rather tend to try bash the head against the wall and go against the wind and in consequence bash us for unbalanced mod.

I think that were the mod has succeded: putting working equipment-based restrictions on sand-box game, lies the main problem with audience reactions. People basically feel over-restricted and not look for alternative ways.

Please know that I am not criticizing here - as hoobystic game desinger wannabe this is extremely important remark and observation for me.

Putting above statement in context of combat balance, it has been imho very well summarized in following statement from the comments:

Someone wrote:
-npc's dont die from a headshot even when not wearing helmets (i had to shoot 3 times with a deagle to kill them smaller calibers needed even more rounds)
but when npc's shoot you and your not wearing decent armor you instantly die

Well - I must say that this is exacly the point.

Note that also in this post none of you guys has stated in which armor you were in when trying to attack and kill NPCs, while this is exacly the feedback I would like to hear the most.

In short: NPCs are supposed to be equal to you in terms of resistance but only if suit 'worn' by them and you is of the same or similar class. When you'll be wearing Beril and feel that Beril-armored NPCs survive more than you: ok, this is were the change should be made. However fact that you're in Leather Jacket and get insta-raped by Exoskeleton NPC is something which has to be considered natural.

There is another layer here thou: ammo type. It has been set (for the first time in any Stalker mod ever) that ammo variety also affects NPCs - they can either use 'normal' ammo or 'ap' ammo and since differences in regard to armors are uge between them - higher-ranked, AP-shooting NPC at the beggining of the game will have tremendous advantage versus you.

QUESTION ARISES:

Lets assume that gameplay structured like above actually works. Is such gameplay fun? Are restrictions imposed by a sand-box world something to enjoy? I have automatically assumed that this is the way to go with Stalker gameplay and the only way I imagined introducing challenge to it.

Was I wrong?

---------------

Now - I would sincerely like to ask to take above into account and provide feedback with that in mind. I'd like to make this gameplay perfect but I am of course assuming that on some points execution might have gone wrong.

But to judge that - I would for ex. like you to actually aquire a 'decent armor', good weapon and AP ammo and letting me know how combat feels then. Without that and without having 'frustration-killing tools' for any other stages of gameplay progression model it is not possible to judge wheter it actully works and perfect it.

---------------

All that said and aside from conceptual stuff described above, there are still 'minor' gameplay issues that I'd like to adress:

- headshots - its simple - for me insta-kill headshots made the game to easy. So I've made this 'gamey' tweak as it was more fun and challanging for me personally. However - 99% of ppl dislike it - ok, its matter of changing a single line. Expect that done in monday's patch

- dropped weapon condition - again simple - allowing dropped guns in good condition makes having trader with weapons pointless, we can as well delete his stock. Have you ever actually purchased a gun in vanilla game? I dont think so and I wanted to change that. Only by saving on and purchasing a gun one starts to relate to it and wants to keep it in top condition >>>> which fuels manual repair system.
I never considered it unrealitic that rookies drop very worn guns - watching thru lets plays I have noticed that also players walk around with damaged guns at the beggining of the game no being able to afford the repair.
Note that veterans / masters (which will get more numerous later on) drop weapons in much better quality.
That said - ok, no problem I will rise the average condition of dropped guns to around 40-60%. Will that work ok? Making them mild thou is not the way to go. I hope you agree?

- mechanic repair costs - this is connected with above. Everything below 50% of condition is cheaper to buy new. For me it appeared logical, in terms of gameplay >>>> allowing cheap repairs of hundreds of looted guns again disables the need to purchase a single weapon ever >>>> we're in vanilla world again. Note however that repairing the weapon manuall is much cheaper but it will only work for weapons not lower than 45% of condition.
Still - we've already agreed in team that manual repair will work from 25%. OK?

- ammounts of ammo - again - same as with conditiona of dropped weapons. Ammo should be mainly purchased as otherwise whats the point of traders and stocks? Still ok: I'll rise the ammounts by 100%. OK?

---------------

OK - thats all from me. Sorry for wall of text I hope that you've found above insight at least interesting and can now see logic in some of the decisions.

I am confident that we agree that Misery v2 holds potential to be very unique experience among sand-box games (in comparison to FarCry 3 for ex.) and togheter we can make it perfect in every regard.

Looking forward to reading as much additional feedback as possible, however very much please locate it in above context as otherwise above 1000 words are pretty pointless ;)

Thank you all for interest in our humble work.

Cheers!

http://www.moddb.com/mods/stalker-m...s-talk-whats-okay-and-whats-not/page/4#869418

We all craved for a hardcore experience but the fact fatal headshots needed to be patched has me wondering if there any more 'bloaty' mechanics.
 

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