Gold Box SSI's Gold Box Series Thread

[octavius]

Just reached Yukash and got thrashed by the first group of Zhentrims. I forgot that the Zhentrim Terror Teams of Yulash are much larger than the Drow patrols of Hap. Also their mages are pre-buffed with Minor Globe and Prot Normal Missiles and cast Fire Shield as their first spell. So it's hard to interrupt their spell casting.

So I conclude that doing Yulash first is probably doable, but there is a reason you are supposed to do Hap first.

 

[Erebus]

Also their mages are pre-buffed with Minor Globe and Prot Normal Missiles and cast Fire Shield as their first spell. So it's hard to interrupt their spell casting.

Reminds me of the Dark Wizards in "Dark Queen of Krynn" : they're pre-buffed with Globe of Invulnerability, Protection vs Normal Missile, Mirror Image and Fire Shield. Their first spell is usually Delayed Blast Fireball (an instant spell, despite the name), which can really cripple your party. Magic arrows have a chance of neutralizing them, but Power Word Kill and Cone of Cold are probably the best ways to get rid of them. Of course, your mage has to act before the Dark Wizard or he'll get wounded by the fireball and won't be able to use magic. That makes the first initiative roll of the fight extremely important.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Oh yeah, that was fucking annoying in the GB games, wounded caster not being able to cast. Though it was often useful too...

 

[octavius]

Oh yeah, that was fucking annoying in the GB games, wounded caster not being able to cast. Though it was often useful too...

Well, it is an important part of combat tactics - disprupting the enemy and minimize chances of your own guys getting interrupted.
The games would have been quite different without these rules; definitely harder since it would mean having to kill - not just wound - enemy spell caster ASAP to prevent being subject to Fireball and Hold Person spells.

 

[Erebus]

Well, it is an important part of combat tactics

True, but luck also plays a big role : I remember some fights in which a single unfavorable initiative roll had a snowball effect that got my party completely slaughtered. Having my two single-classed wizards unable to do anything more than throw darts at the enemy during the first round of a fight because an early fireball hit the party was always unpleasant.

 

[octavius]

Well, it is an important part of combat tactics

True, but luck also plays a big role : I remember some fights in which a single unfavorable initiative roll had a snowball effect that got my party completely slaughtered. Having my two single-classed wizards unable to do anything more than throw darts at the enemy during the first round of a fight because an early fireball hit the party was always unpleasant.

That's when scrolls and wands come in handy.

 

[Erebus]

That's when scrolls and wands come in handy.

True enough. Wands of fireballs, necklaces of missiles and things like that are usually not as powerful as if the spell were cast by your wizards, but they can still save your ass.

 

[Sceptic]

Delayed Blast Fireball (an instant spell, despite the name)

I'm sure you could set the delay in one of the games. Was that only in POD? DBF has always been a wonky spell in SSI games, it also worked weirdly in Wake of the Ravager (no delay there either).

Oh yeah, that was fucking annoying in the GB games, wounded caster not being able to cast. Though it was often useful too...

I think this was a 2E thing, not just GB. And it was also there in Dark Sun, where it was tremendously useful, especially in the final battle in SL. And if you stock up on items and (in the 2nd game) scrolls, it wasn't such a big deal for your party, but when done to the enemy made some fights much easier.

 

[Erebus]

Delayed Blast Fireball (an instant spell, despite the name)

I'm sure you could set the delay in one of the games. Was that only in POD?

In DQK, the Delayed Blast Fireball is just as fast to cast as a Magic Missile, which is one of the reason it's the most useful offensive spell (the other reasons being the large area of effect and the fact that it hurts a lot). A normal fireball takes some time to cast and your wizard can be wounded during it, which makes him lose the spell. As a rule, the higher the level of the spell, the longer it takes to cast it (casting Meteor Swarm takes an obscene amount of time and it's not even that powerful). It's not surprising that Power Words would be an exception to that rule, but the DBF is a stranger case.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Oh yeah, that was fucking annoying in the GB games, wounded caster not being able to cast. Though it was often useful too...

I think this was a 2E thing, not just GB. And it was also there in Dark Sun, where it was tremendously useful, especially in the final battle in SL. And if you stock up on items and (in the 2nd game) scrolls, it wasn't such a big deal for your party, but when done to the enemy made some fights much easier.

Not a 2nd edition thing. GB games use 1st edition. 2nd edition has only normal interruption, ie you have to be casting the spell to be interrupted - if you get hurt before it's your turn, you can still cast. And DBF should work either as a normal fireball or as a "land mine" with a normal 7th level casting time. Hmm, I'll check the rulebook later when I get the chance.

 

[Sceptic]

In DQK, the Delayed Blast Fireball is just as fast to cast as a Magic Missile

Oh you meant the casting time. The delay in the name doesn't refer to that, but to the blast being delated. Pretty sure it was in POD where, on casting the spell, you could set a delay and the fireball would sit there and explode after the number of specified rounds. Extremely useful as a magical trap, especially if you line up 2 or 3 and time them to explode at once - they'll wipe out pretty much anything. But yeah the spell was great in DQ due to insta-cast, though I'm almost certain this was purely in the games and it should not be insta-cast according to the original rules.

Not a 2nd edition thing. GB games use 1st edition.

IIRC only POR does, the later ones use a bizarre mishmash of 1E and some elements of 2E (and the later ones were pure 2E). But yeah you're right, that particular behavior is not 2E. Which makes its inclusion in the Dark Sun games a bit odd, since these are definitely 2E (or supposed to be). But then did they even implement casting times? I seem to remember everything was insta-cast, at least in SL.

 

[ScottishMartialArts]

I've resolved to play the Pool of Radiance series. Any non-spoilery advice for a Gold Box newb?

 

[octavius]

If you want to play the whole series with the same characters, play the DOS version. The Amiga version of Secret of the Silver Swords has a severe bug - Cloaks of Displacement make you immune to physical attacks.

Also be aware of the racial level caps. Except for Thieves only Humans can reach the highest class levels. So a party of 5 humans and 1 Dwarf Fighter/Thief is a good mix.

Make sure your Cleric has 18 Wisdom so that s(he) can use lvl 9 spells eventually. Same applies to Magic Users and Intelligence.

You may want to dual class one or two fighter types to Magic User eventually. To dual class they need at least 15 in the Prime Requisite of their first class (STR for Fighters, STR, INT and WIS for Rangers) and 17 in the Prime Requisite of the new class (INT for Magic Users).
Rangers are especially well suited for this since they can cast spells while wearing armour.

Note that you can't have Paladins and Rangers in Pool of Radiance, so multi classed elves or half elves are good temporary party members in that game.

Hiring a lvl 4 Hero is a good idea in PoR.

 

[Jaesun]

I played an all 3 PoR+CotAB+SotSB (DOS version) with just a party of pure class characters. It really is just play a party you want.

 

[Gregz]

octavius owns the thread as usual, he covered almost everything.

The only thing I would add is that you can alter your character's stats somewhere in the character creation process (I forget exactly where).

So you don't need to spend 30 minutes rolling that perfect dual-class potential character, just get the race/alignment/class etc. stuff right, then afterwards you can simply edit the numbers, including giving yourself 18/00 strength (try to resist cheating that badly if you can).

 

[bussinrounds]

How would you know which ones were good/worth playing out of these ?

http://frua.rosedragon.org/modulelist/file.php[/url]

 

[Zomg]

Well, if you are gonna play the whole series:

Damn I wrote a lot at first then I got tired, I am gonna pare it down to one thing:

Backstabs

Gold Box backstabbing is unintuitive as fuck but it's the only way to make thief levels useful at all. IIRC backstabs do a multiple of normal attack damage, up to like 5x at level 14 or so IIRC, which is psychotic. However, the process is annoying. First, you have to have a thief and a second character . (W)ait until a humanoid enemy has used its turn, generally to swing a weapon or w/e. Then have the second character attack that enemy. It doesn't matter if he hits or not. Then have the thief attack the enemy from the opposite direction - this will make it a backstab attack, and it has a bonus to-hit also. If the character is hasted and/or this is a multi- or dual-classed thief with enough fighter levels to get a bonus attack, all the attacks become backstabs.

I feel like I remember that some of the Gold Box games allow you to backstab non-humanoids by the same process but I can't remember which ones.

 

[ScottishMartialArts]

Do you all recommend mapping out the areas by hand or is the rather minimal automap sufficient?

 

[Zomg]

The (A)rea thing is not sufficient, and it's not viewable most of the time anyway. In Radiance almost all the areas are very small and brain-mappable, with the exceptions being kinda fun to map manually, but later games have constant bullshit huge and confusing areas. If you don't want to map those, download the cluebooks from replacementdocs and use the maps.

 

[octavius]

How would you know which ones were good/worth playing out of these ?

http://frua.rosedragon.org/modulelist/file.php[/url]

I haven't tried many of them (yet), but I've heard good things about the modules made by Ray Dyer, Ben Sanderfer, Darius Whiteheart and Nol Drek.

Well, if you are gonna play the whole series:

Backstabs

Gold Box backstabbing is unintuitive as fuck but it's the only way to make thief levels useful at all. IIRC backstabs do a multiple of normal attack damage, up to like 5x at level 14 or so IIRC, which is psychotic. However, the process is annoying. First, you have to have a thief and a second character . (W)ait until a humanoid enemy has used its turn, generally to swing a weapon or w/e. Then have the second character attack that enemy. It doesn't matter if he hits or not. Then have the thief attack the enemy from the opposite direction - this will make it a backstab attack, and it has a bonus to-hit also. If the character is hasted and/or this is a multi- or dual-classed thief with enough fighter levels to get a bonus attack, all the attacks become backstabs.

I feel like I remember that some of the Gold Box games allow you to backstab non-humanoids by the same process but I can't remember which ones.

Backstab works differently in Pool of Radiance compared to the other games. In Pool it's the third attack, which must be opposite the first, which is a backstab. And it works on any enemy.
In later games it's the second attack, which must be opposite from the first, which is a backstab. And it only works on humanoids.
Backstab is especially useful in Curse of the Azure Bons where you fight mostly humanoids. Especially against the magic resistant Drow is it a very good tactic. Make sure you fighter/thief can reach at least lvl 7 Figher, so that he gets 2/1 attacks a round.

 

[Erebus]

I haven't played PoR, but here are a few things I have observed in other GB games :

- Poisonous attacks can insta-kill a PC.

- Be wary of using an unidentified magical item, as some of them will turn out to be cursed.

- Potions of healing are very rare, making priests extremely useful.

- Thief abilities (other than backstab) are seldom used.

- Helpless creatures can be reduced to 0 HP with a single hit.

- Stinking Cloud is a surprisingly awesome spell.

 

[octavius]

I haven't played PoR, but here are a few things I have observed in other GB games :

- Poisonous attacks can insta-kill a PC.

Poison is rather confusing. It doesn't actually kill right away even if it looks that way. A character who has been posioned can be revived with Neutralize Poison spell (only from a Temple in Pool) if the party brings him there before the poison kills him for good. Slow Poison will increase the time before the poison really kills, so it is a useful spell to have while exploring the slums. Out in the wilderness it is useless since it takes too long to reach a temple.
The advantage of Slow Poison is that Neutralize Poison is much cheaper than Raise Dead and it doesn't decreas CON.

 

[Fowyr]

I remember mapping only some areas in DQoK and SotsB. I even fully mapped Verdigris because doesn't have full journal at this time. It's still the largest map what I made.

 

[mondblut]

Make sure your everyone has 18 everything.

You may want to dual class all fighter types to Magic User eventually. After at least level 14-15

Improved.

edit: whoa, it's SMA posting in RPGD! What's next, a Mars landing?

Contrary to the previous claimants, area view is available almost everywhere except some select few locations, and while absolutely barebones, is still sufficient to see your way around.

 

[Metro]

You can't make a paladin in PoR and I'm not sure if you can change a character's class once you transfer over to Curse. And, yes, all of Phlan is split up into 'blocks' that you are tasked to clear... so basically everything is a square and the map is sufficient. The wilderness outside is fairly large but the landmarks are pretty obvious and you travel around there in an 'overworld' view. In the series only place you probably need to make a rough map of are the Veridigas mines and the well area in terms of what teleport goes where.

Game play tips. When you fight the big battle in Sokol keep, Mace, and the Kobold King... grab a sandwich because you'll be there a while. Do yourself a favor and save before those encounters.