Gold Box SSI's Gold Box Series Thread

[made]

Dunno. I've seen that frog in an icecube so many times before, it doesn't impress me anymore.

 

[Jaesun]

If graphics and not game play matter to you made, there is always Dragon Age.

Konjob rates it very high.

 

[bussinrounds]

What's the deal with this ? http://uaf.sourceforge.net/ Looks pretty fuckin cool.

I'ts still in "beta" but keep an eye on it.

Mechanics wise it's pretty dam solid, and IS very true to the good old Gold Box Game feel and experience. But again, it is still in beta and needs a bit more work.

I will definitely let the codex know if this is finally ready for prime time and is a MUST PLAY. I'm currently modding a campaign for it (for a beginning level party) for it now.

You should post up some reviews on those FRUA modules you've been playing.

 

[octavius]

Dunno. I've seen that frog in an icecube so many times before, it doesn't impress me anymore.

If you are using Firefox, in the URL field wite: About:config
Find this: network.http.sendRefererHeader;2

Change the value 2 to 1 and watch the icecube melt away as if by magic.

 

[octavius]

I've played Curese of the Azure bonds a few times and always gone after Dracandros the Red Wizard at Hap before going after the Cult of Moander at Yulash, but after my last playthrough I was beginning to think that mayhaps it is not the best order?

Apart from the "Dave's Challenges"s and end areas, I found the village of Hap and the dungeons underneath to be the hardest area in the GB games.
The village of Hap is extremely difficult if you don't kill any of the patrols, and then encounter the entire Drow occupation force in the town hall. Great use of an otherwise useless NPC to force combat with the patrols there. The caves are also very hard with two rooms filled with Drow mages and Drow clerics respectively, that are almost impossible to beat. Fortunately they allow you to back out. And then there's the Dracolich...
You really need some good fighters and thieves in this area since the Drow are highly resistant to magic. A fighter/thief really shines in this area thanks to his backstabbing ability.

In Yulash the hardest things you meet are a couple of Zhentil strike teams and some very nasty Slugs that hit very hard if they hit you. Fortunately the slugs have low THAC0. In the second part of this area you are also helped by two useful NPCs, making it easier.

So what do other COA players do? Hap or Yulash first?

Oh, and have anyone read the Curse of the Azure Bonds novel? If so, what do you think about it?

 

[Metro]

Been forever since I played but I always went Dracondras then Moander. But, yes, the Drow are ridiculous especially the champion or lord or whatever he's called. Fortunately one time I remember I used stinking cloud and it worked (yay dice rolls) so I just one shot him. I would just make liberal use out of prayer, bless, strength/enlarge (or w/e it's called), and especially haste.

You might have a problem with the three Bits o' Moander fight at the end of the Yulash branch with underleveled(well, without the xp bonuses of Hap+Dracondras' tower) characters. IMO, your best course is to do Dracondras first and... attack the black dragons at the end (fun fight!).

I actually did read the novel... and again, this would have been like... twenty years ago... so my insight into literature wasn't particularly strong. Overall I thought it was a decent story. The game basically has the same plot points just with a few villain substitutions.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Hap isn't THAT difficult if you are smart about it. Ignore the drow cleric/mage rooms since there is no point in fighting them and the drow in the village are easy to kill if you do the patrols. The dragolich is fucking annoying, though, no two ways about it. But you're right that the Moander cultists are relatively simple. Next time I play the game, I should switch the order around and try it that way.

The CotAB book is pretty decent in pulp-fantasy vein. I remember reading it when I was in my teens, though, so it might come across as really stupid now.

 

[octavius]

Been forever since I played but I always went Dracondras then Moander. But, yes, the Drow are ridiculous especially the champion or lord or whatever he's called. Fortunately one time I remember I used stinking cloud and it worked (yay dice rolls) so I just one shot him. I would just make liberal use out of prayer, bless, strength/enlarge (or w/e it's called), and especially haste.

I found that the only way to kill him was to get lucky with Stinking Cloud or Hold Person or use a Hasted and strengthened Fighter/Thief to backstab him.
I think my Fighter/Thief had about 80% of all the kills against the Drow and he used up all my Potions of Speed.

You might have a problem with the three Bits o' Moander fight at the end of the Yulash branch with underleveled(well, without the xp bonuses of Hap+Dracondras' tower) characters. IMO, your best course is to do Dracondras first and... attack the black dragons at the end (fun fight!).

Damned, I had forgotten about those Bits o' Moanders. But the Wand of Defloration...uh...Defoliation works well against them.

I have already played the game in the "correct" order so many times that this time I'll try a different order.

Hap isn't THAT difficult if you are smart about it. Ignore the drow cleric/mage rooms since there is no point in fighting them and the drow in the village are easy to kill if you do the patrols. The dragolich is fucking annoying, though, no two ways about it.

Yup, that's how I usually do it. As you say you can avoid the three most difficult fights, but still I needed to rest after many of the other encounters, even though I try to only rest once each day. And since I, unlike 99% of the players, don't play with characters with maxed stats things get a bit more challenging.

 

[dragonbait]

I've always gone to Hap, then Yulash, then Zhentil Keep. I've always found that Yulash/The pit was always tougher cause of the numerous shambling mounds, Bits of Moander and cultists.

When in the Hap, that darned Akabar Bel Akash or whatever his name was made life difficult. He never allows the party to run and seems to always cast his fireball in a way that hits other party members rather than our enemies.

I read Curse of the Azure Bonds too. It was a few years back, but It was pretty good. Definitely worth a read if you played the game and liked it. Had some additional characters not mentioned in the game IIRC.

Comparing the book to other books based on CRPG's of the time, CotAB was definitely better then the Bard's Tale books which didn't seem to have much to do with what happened in the games. Of course the Dragonlance series of books were great. I wonder if there were any books based on Wizardry or Might and Magic. Anyone know?

 

[Destroid]

I think the Dragonlance games were based on the books though, not the other way around?

 

[7hm]

I think the Dragonlance games were based on the books though, not the other way around?

Yes.

The dragonlance books are the first d&d novels. The only good (relative term) ones from what I recall from reading that stuff as a teen.

 

[Destroid]

I've not read any other dnd books but I agree, the Dragonlance books were good teen fantasy. The Death Gate Cycle by the same authors was good too.

 

[octavius]

When in the Hap, that darned Akabar Bel Akash or whatever his name was made life difficult. He never allows the party to run

There is a Flee option?
Actually Akabar is a very useful character if you don't choose the Flee option, since fighting the patrols makes the showdown at the barn easier. I think this is brilliant design - that there is a fixed number of enemies in a town and fighting the patrols makes the encounter in the local enemy HQ that much easier.

and seems to always cast his fireball in a way that hits other party members rather than our enemies.

The AI was very poor in the early Gold Box games, which is why I make him lose his Sleep, Stinking Cloud and Fireball spells. But also the enemy were subject to friendly fire.
Fortunately this improved in later GB games.

I've not read any other dnd books but I agree, the Dragonlance books were good teen fantasy. The Death Gate Cycle by the same authors was good too.

I thought the first Dragonlance trilogy was good, despite its cringeworthy "poetry". I even liked it when I re-read it many years later.
The second one was meh - too much psycho babble about the twins who only their mother could tell apart..
The Death Gate cycle started promising, but got steadily worse untill I couldn't take it anymore.

 

[Destroid]

Well, I read them when I was 14-16 or so, I couldn't say what they would be like for an adult.

 

[Erebus]

I think the Dragonlance games were based on the books though, not the other way around?

I think that the adventures were created before the novels, but that they used specific characters (you had to play Caramon, Tanis, Raistlin or one of the others instead of a PC of your own making). I may be wrong, though.

As far as D&D novels are concerned and as long as you don't expect too much, "Curse of the Azure Bonds" is reasonably entertaining. Better than "Pool of Radiance", for instance.

 

[Destroid]

Yes I recall reading that the stories started life as either adventure modules or just games that the authors ran/were involved in.

 

[octavius]

I think the Dragonlance games were based on the books though, not the other way around?

I think that the adventures were created before the novels, but that they used specific characters (you had to play Caramon, Tanis, Raistlin or one of the others instead of a PC of your own making). I may be wrong, though.

Actually you roll your own party, but you meet Tanis at some point and Tasselhoff even joins you for a brief moment; so brief that there are no combats when he's in the party.

Personally I prefer the Dragonlance setting to Forgotten Realms, since there are more options - more classes, fewer racial limits, special weapons (Dragonlances and Hoopaks) more abilities (Kenders' taunting and Knights' leadership), three orders of magi and clerics actually worships, and gain powers from, specific deities, instead of being generic clerics.

Yes I recall reading that the stories started life as either adventure modules or just games that the authors ran/were involved in.

I think the first half of the frist book followed their RPG campaign quite closely.
The first trilogy had a special charm, even though most of the characters were rather EMO/annoying. The books would definitely not have been the same without Tasselhoff. And Fizban was great too. Loved his references to Gandalf, for example.

 

[Destroid]

I think Fizban turns up in some of their other (non-dragonland) novels too. It's been many years since I read these books.

 

[barrakus]

I've read the curse of the azure bonds novel long, long ago. I actually masturbated to an erotic scene in the novel involving Akabar Bel Akash with a tavern wench (or whoever she was), holding the novel in one hand and my dick in another over the toilet bowl.

Ah, youth. Where have ye gone?

 

[GarfunkeL]

I didn't masturbate to Alias even though she was portrayed as the ultimate fantasy babe, bikini chainmail and all that but thanks for sharing. AFAIK, while the GB games are based on adventure modules (or at least most of them are), some of the books were written before the games - Dragonlance and CotAB being the prime examples. PoR book I'm not sure about, it was pretty awful in any case.

Which makes you wonder why there haven't been games based on the other books? Spellfire/Shandril's saga, for example, would have made a "great" Bioware game and Greenwood, while being pretty atrocious, at least beats Gaider.

Btw, many of the improvements that the Krynn campaign setting had were incorporated into Forgotten Realms for 2nd edition and 3rd edition.

 

[Erebus]

The first trilogy had a special charm

I found it entertaining when I was seventeen, but had to give up on it fairly quickly when I tried to read it again several years later. The Twins Trilogy is largely better in my opinion.

I think Fizban turns up in some of their other (non-dragonland) novels too. It's been many years since I read these books.

There's a Zifnab in the "Death Gates" cycle. It's a pretty entertaining series, but - as often happens with Weis & Hickman - the ending tries to be original and only manages to be disappointing.

Spellfire/Shandril's saga, for example, would have made a "great" Bioware game and Greenwood, while being pretty atrocious, at least beats Gaider.

I'm really not sure. I didn't read the Shandril books themselves but their french "translations", which probably did away with at least half of the original text. But I suspect I would have found the books godawful even if I'd read them in english.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Well, I have a soft spot for the those three books because they are really "classic" Forgotten Realms. I wouldn't be surprised if the first book is actually based on a P&P campaign that Greenwood ran as a DM. Zhents are scheming super-evils, Elminster is an obnoxious, absent-minded archmage (and not yet a Goddess-boning superman), Knights of Myth Drannor are wise-cracking jesters and the Seven Sisters kick ass. There's lots of dungeon crawling, magic flying around, Dragolich getting ravaged and Manshoon having his ass handed to him but escaping through the skin of his teeth, to struggle against the heroes another day.

Plus Shandril was a believable female character - or came across as one when I was fourteen :D So yeah, maybe I should read the first one again and see how it holds up.

 

[Erebus]

Plus Shandril was a believable female character - or came across as one when I was fourteen :D

I think what annoyed me was her Mary-Sueness : out of nowhere and for no good reason, she gains super-powers that allow her to destroy pretty much anything and anyone standing in her path. It wouldn't make for a very challenging game without a lot of nerfing.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Ah, but if we forget the psychological characterisation, she did have very effective limitations on her powers - she could only spit out the magical energy bestowed on her. Basically, she was the forerunner of warlock class - an arcane caster incapable of proper spellcasting but able to conjure pure "blasts" of magical energy, as long as other wizards poured that energy into her. IIRC, it's only edge was that because it came straight from the Weave (or something like that), it could not be stopped by any protective spells. So yes, it was a great power but not impossible one - I think the second book made a lot about how she was a glass cannon, not suited for subtlety and only had endurance for very limited engagements. Plus it was a relatively good comeback, as the first book spent half of its pages describing what a useless thief she was, culminating in the

Spoiler

complete slaughter of her entire first adventuring party

It only became really Mary-Sue when Greenwood had to bestow that same Silverfire-ability to Elminster, who could simultaneously tap into the Weave thanks to shagging Mystra - so he would never run out of magical energy and could just blast any/everything all the time, at which point it became clear that nothing would faze him and Greenwood had to jump the shark by send him to Avernus to be hunted by demons while cutting off his connection to Mystra thanks to the re-emergence of Shade into Faerun and the attempt by Shar and her followers to corrupt the Weave with the Shadow Weave which meant that Mystra could not "spare the time and effort to hunt for her beloved", especially since materializing directly in Avernus meant that Asmodeus would probably join in the fray - so instead she sent the Simbul to give chase and the reader is treated to 300+ pages of Elminster playing mindgames with the demons tormenting/hunting him while Simbul flies around Avernus blasting demons and lava dragons and whatelse, at one point throwing a whole mountain on an entire demon host, before finally rescuing him - which leads to hot wizard-on-wizardess sex in the throne room of Aglarond, naturally at the very moment that Shadow Weave Cultists try to usurp the throne since Simbul has been gone for days and the Phaerimm are lured into the melee thanks to all the magical energy being unleashed and then we have the inhabitants of Shade hunting the Phaerimm and then that book finally ends and yeah, maybe Simbul is just an up-gunned version of Shandril, so what does that tell us about Ed Greenwood? And me, since I've read most of those books, god dammit. So yeah, avoid Elminster in Hell. Or any and all of those Elminster books.

 

[Elwro]

I remember I thought the first Dragonlance trilogy was so awesome I even made my father read it; watching him trying to say "son, truth is, this is shit" in a nice way was quite an experience :D


...and then suddenly I realised this was 3rd-rate literature. Goddamn parents making their children grow up too fast etc. etc.