SOVL : Fantasy warhammer - It's Warhammer 6th edition in jank form!

[Johannes]

I got longbows on my Elves infantry in campaign. Can any other unit get that too? That was a gamechanger.

Have you run into a wood elf fight yet? 3 units of archers can delete one of your units a turn no problem. It's fucking brutal if you don't have a way to fight back. I was playing humans with a dorf cannon and a city guard elf unit allied in and they did so much damage it was impossible to win the next battle. Undead grinding down my already weakened units fucking sucked.

Chariots need a buff. I'm thinking 5-6 wounds would be a good place for them. It's too easy to do 4 wounds on them with a single cannon or decent ranged unit. Either 5 or 6 would push them just over the safety threshhold so they're not killed by a stiff wind.

Rather than making them more durable, change the "lethal shots" ability the cannons and bolt throwers have, from doing 2 wounds of damage for a single hit, to getting a bonus for wounding easier. Either -1 save, or forced reroll on success.

RN you always get at least 5+ saves on the Power vs Defence roll, so no matter your weapon power there's a good chance a goblin will save vs a cannon or bolt thrower shot. The chariot will get that same save, but will take twice the damage.

 

[Hell Swarm]

I got longbows on my Elves infantry in campaign. Can any other unit get that too? That was a gamechanger.

Have you run into a wood elf fight yet? 3 units of archers can delete one of your units a turn no problem. It's fucking brutal if you don't have a way to fight back. I was playing humans with a dorf cannon and a city guard elf unit allied in and they did so much damage it was impossible to win the next battle. Undead grinding down my already weakened units fucking sucked.

Chariots need a buff. I'm thinking 5-6 wounds would be a good place for them. It's too easy to do 4 wounds on them with a single cannon or decent ranged unit. Either 5 or 6 would push them just over the safety threshhold so they're not killed by a stiff wind.

Rather than making them more durable, change the "lethal shots" ability the cannons and bolt throwers have, from doing 2 wounds of damage for a single hit, to getting a bonus for wounding easier. Either -1 save, or forced reroll on success.

RN you always get at least 5+ saves on the Power vs Defence roll, so no matter your weapon power there's a good chance a goblin will save vs a cannon or bolt thrower shot. The chariot will get that same save, but will take twice the damage.

Doesn't solve the problem of archers killing a chariot in 1 round of shooting. 15 archers will almost always take out a chariot and they don't hit hard enough to be a concern.

 

[Johannes]

With either elven longbows at long range, or humans at short range, it's

15 * 1/2 * 1/3 = 2.5 expected wounds

So no, they don't almost always take it out in 1 volley.

Perhaps there should be a malus to hit for shooting after moving, though, would make it easier to stay out of sight.

 

[Kabas]

I got longbows on my Elves infantry in campaign. Can any other unit get that too? That was a gamechanger.
You are right that ranged units can get quite broken in the campaign. The hybrids are oarticularly strong here, with Elven city guards having options to get heavy armor on top of it (and banner of mist I think?).
What happens in the event where you lose one unit in the wood? You get them back in another way if you wait, but what if you don't? It is just lost?
Is it worth taking the +50% replenishment rate?

Lizardmen newts can get javelins but their range is really short. Their pterodactyls and triceratops can also get shortbows.
Dwarven deep guard can get rifles.

You mean that event where your unit transforms into wights? I think you can only wait and let it happen.

+% replenishment and +unit size seems to be the most no-brainer level-up choices to me. Some stronger units have an inherently shit replenishment rate but only one-two extra model being replenished is still better than nothing.
Extra attacks is a good choice too.

 

[Hell Swarm]

With either elven longbows at long range, or humans at short range, it's

15 * 1/2 * 1/3 = 2.5 expected wounds

So no, they don't almost always take it out in 1 volley.

Perhaps there should be a malus to hit for shooting after moving, though, would make it easier to stay out of sight.

More often than not you are. 2.5 wounds doesn't exist and rolling 15 dice is a lot of dice god potential.

 

[Johannes]

With either elven longbows at long range, or humans at short range, it's

15 * 1/2 * 1/3 = 2.5 expected wounds

So no, they don't almost always take it out in 1 volley.

Perhaps there should be a malus to hit for shooting after moving, though, would make it easier to stay out of sight.

More often than not you are. 2.5 wounds doesn't exist and rolling 15 dice is a lot of dice god potential.

(15!÷(0!×15!))×(1÷6)^0×(5÷6)^15 = 0,065 (zero wounds)
(15!÷(1!×14!))×(1÷6)^1×(5÷6)^14 = 0,195 (one wound)
(15!÷(2!×13!))×(1÷6)^2×(5÷6)^13 = 0,273 (two wounds)
(15!÷(3!×12!))×(1÷6)^3×(5÷6)^12 = 0,236 (three wounds)

Added together, 76,8% chance to not die.

But I'm not a dice god.

 

[Hell Swarm]

With either elven longbows at long range, or humans at short range, it's

15 * 1/2 * 1/3 = 2.5 expected wounds

So no, they don't almost always take it out in 1 volley.

Perhaps there should be a malus to hit for shooting after moving, though, would make it easier to stay out of sight.

More often than not you are. 2.5 wounds doesn't exist and rolling 15 dice is a lot of dice god potential.

(15!÷(0!×15!))×(1÷6)^0×(5÷6)^15 = 0,065 (zero wounds)
(15!÷(1!×14!))×(1÷6)^1×(5÷6)^14 = 0,195 (one wound)
(15!÷(2!×13!))×(1÷6)^2×(5÷6)^13 = 0,273 (two wounds)
(15!÷(3!×12!))×(1÷6)^3×(5÷6)^12 = 0,236 (three wounds)

Added together, 76,8% chance to not die.

But I'm not a dice god.

Rule 1 of math hammer : Math hammer doesn't work.

 

[Galdred]

With either elven longbows at long range, or humans at short range, it's

15 * 1/2 * 1/3 = 2.5 expected wounds

So no, they don't almost always take it out in 1 volley.

Perhaps there should be a malus to hit for shooting after moving, though, would make it easier to stay out of sight.

More often than not you are. 2.5 wounds doesn't exist and rolling 15 dice is a lot of dice god potential.

(15!÷(0!×15!))×(1÷6)^0×(5÷6)^15 = 0,065 (zero wounds)
(15!÷(1!×14!))×(1÷6)^1×(5÷6)^14 = 0,195 (one wound)
(15!÷(2!×13!))×(1÷6)^2×(5÷6)^13 = 0,273 (two wounds)
(15!÷(3!×12!))×(1÷6)^3×(5÷6)^12 = 0,236 (three wounds)

Added together, 76,8% chance to not die.

But I'm not a dice god.

Rule 1 of math hammer : Math hammer doesn't work.

That's a convenient rule n00bs tell themselves after getting plastered time and again(no clue about warhammer, but it happened a lot in Blood Bowl)!
Anyway, played the Chaos Abyssal Warriors campaign, and it offers a refreshing change, with you not having any notable ranged unit (apart dragon mount or wizard), but having access to randomized stat upgrages, that can give +1 wound or +1 attack.
These were game changers that turned my Bloodletters Devil Spawn from mop tiers to murder machine tiers.
The mounted Chaos Abyssal knights are also very very strong and will save at 2+ under most situations even if you swap its shield and sword for a great weapon (why can't have lance and shield btw?).
I wish the UI allowed to see yout units current stats when purchasing forge upgrade, because it becomes difficult to purchase the right option for the right group (sword+board to great weapon or halberd is great for warriors with 2 wounds, but not so great for others).

 

[Hell Swarm]

That's a convenient rule n00bs tell themselves after getting plastered time and again(no clue about warhammer, but it happened a lot in Blood Bowl)!

Bloodbowl is a completely different beast because 1 roll fuck up can cost you the entire turn or game. In large scale wargaming you should be aware of the odds but don't stick to them religiously. Good players understand what needs to happen and don't play exactly to the maths because they know dice aren't statistically accurate. 2 dice are generally going to roll 7, but some times they roll a 2 and some times they roll a 12.

 

[Johannes]

Dice are statistically accurate, you just don't understand what that means.

 

[Sunri]

I expected 3 chapters not 2, but the game is cool anyway finished wood elf campaign

 

[Hell Swarm]

Dice are statistically accurate, you just don't understand what that means.

I'm aware of what it means. Doesn't mean shit when you snake eyes a vital roll on the game table. That's why mathhammer nerds are laughed at by all serious players. They play the maths and lose because of it.

 

[Galdred]

That's a convenient rule n00bs tell themselves after getting plastered time and again(no clue about warhammer, but it happened a lot in Blood Bowl)!

Bloodbowl is a completely different beast because 1 roll fuck up can cost you the entire turn or game. In large scale wargaming you should be aware of the odds but don't stick to them religiously. Good players understand what needs to happen and don't play exactly to the maths because they know dice aren't statistically accurate. 2 dice are generally going to roll 7, but some times they roll a 2 and some times they roll a 12.

I don't think both cases are that different:
Many wargames have "super units" that account for a siginificant portion of the total cost of the army, like heavy mechs in Battle techs, superheavies in 40K, or titans in epic.
I remember two games of epic: Space Marines being decided by a single unit activation:
1 game 1, a group of exarchs vaporized a company of my shadowsword tanks in a single volley.
In another game, I deep striked 1 group of Terminators behind the enemy titan and one scored a lucky hit on the reactor, resulting in a catastrophic meltdown taking down the titan and the nearby Eldar units.

Actually, BB has several failsafes included: replacements (usually, not that great, but that's better than playing 10 vs 11), and rerolls.

Regarding dice variance, that's the point:
Against weaker players/teams/armies, you are supposed to play much more conservatively than against players of similar skills, and against better players, you have incentive to play more recklessly to have a shot at winning.You are supposed to know that you'll roll 1+1 1 time out of 36, and decide if you can live with it, or if you are sufficiently ahead to also take measures to cover this event.

As for BB, I have seldom lost against a much weaker player, unless playing one of the joke teams.

 

[Hell Swarm]

As for BB, I have seldom lost against a much weaker player, unless playing one of the joke teams.

One of the reasons I like BB. Having bad teams is part of the games balance. If you're a good player you can select your difficulty in a way more games don't allow.

I always like Orcs and Chaos for the free blockers. I want to thump things!

 

[Johannes]

Dice are statistically accurate, you just don't understand what that means.

I'm aware of what it means. Doesn't mean shit when you snake eyes a vital roll on the game table. That's why mathhammer nerds are laughed at by all serious players. They play the maths and lose because of it.

No you don't know, when you make retarded statements like "23% chance to die happens more often than not". Knowing how big the risk is in different situations is the key element in chance based games, be it wargames or poker or whatever. If you don't use math in your risk assessment while thinking you're a Serious Player you're just a tard.

 

[Hell Swarm]

Dice are statistically accurate, you just don't understand what that means.

I'm aware of what it means. Doesn't mean shit when you snake eyes a vital roll on the game table. That's why mathhammer nerds are laughed at by all serious players. They play the maths and lose because of it.

No you don't know, when you make retarded statements like "23% chance to die happens more often than not". Knowing how big the risk is in different situations is the key element in chance based games, be it wargames or poker or whatever. If you don't use math in your risk assessment while thinking you're a Serious Player you're just a tard.

I have literally hours of experience playing Sovl and watching chariots get taken off the table by elf archer units and cannons.

 

[Johannes]

Dice are statistically accurate, you just don't understand what that means.

I'm aware of what it means. Doesn't mean shit when you snake eyes a vital roll on the game table. That's why mathhammer nerds are laughed at by all serious players. They play the maths and lose because of it.

No you don't know, when you make retarded statements like "23% chance to die happens more often than not". Knowing how big the risk is in different situations is the key element in chance based games, be it wargames or poker or whatever. If you don't use math in your risk assessment while thinking you're a Serious Player you're just a tard.

I have literally hours of experience playing Sovl and watching chariots get taken off the table by elf archer units and cannons.

Yes, and you fail to do a proper assessment of that 23% chance (or whatever the given chance is in a given situation) because you suck at statistics.

 

[The Limper]

Choosing the random +1 to any stat option at level is amazing if you are lucky enough to land a plus to Wounds on a heavy infantry or calvary unit. I got it on Abyssal Warriors which are already crazy tough and on Saurian warriors coupled with several units of Kroxigors. Makes for unstoppable armies. Too bad no Slann-like character options.

I found the Wood Elves to be hilariously easy to win with. Just keep adding archers/Dryads and choose Druid as your leader. Disable the enemy with magic and pluck away. The enemy just dissolves. Dwarves, Empire and High Elves can all do this.

 

[Desman]

Dice are statistically accurate, you just don't understand what that means.

I'm aware of what it means. Doesn't mean shit when you snake eyes a vital roll on the game table. That's why mathhammer nerds are laughed at by all serious players. They play the maths and lose because of it.

No you don't know, when you make retarded statements like "23% chance to die happens more often than not". Knowing how big the risk is in different situations is the key element in chance based games, be it wargames or poker or whatever. If you don't use math in your risk assessment while thinking you're a Serious Player you're just a tard.

I have literally hours of experience playing Sovl and watching chariots get taken off the table by elf archer units and cannons.

Chariots are just super weak and get insta melted by leveled cannons or fireballs. It's not luck or randomness their stats just suck.

 

[Galdred]

Dice are statistically accurate, you just don't understand what that means.

I'm aware of what it means. Doesn't mean shit when you snake eyes a vital roll on the game table. That's why mathhammer nerds are laughed at by all serious players. They play the maths and lose because of it.

No you don't know, when you make retarded statements like "23% chance to die happens more often than not". Knowing how big the risk is in different situations is the key element in chance based games, be it wargames or poker or whatever. If you don't use math in your risk assessment while thinking you're a Serious Player you're just a tard.

I have literally hours of experience playing Sovl and watching chariots get taken off the table by elf archer units and cannons.

Yes, and you fail to do a proper assessment of that 23% chance (or whatever the given chance is in a given situation) because you suck at statistics.

That said, 23% chance to get instagibbed before contributing anything is significant, especially when said units is not particulary better than its alternatives when everything goes according to plan.

 

[The Limper]

Jeezuz! Imperial Pistoliers are quite nasty. Huge movement, short burst and flee, whittle and wither the enemy. Fun unit!

By Sigmar we need warrior priests and Flagellants for the Empire!

When are we getting the Bretonnians as a faction?

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

this must be what being retarded feels like. i can't make my units walk. only charge when an enemy is in range, i have no idea how i can make them simply advance.
and damn, i knew it, of the free armies i like only undead =_=

edit: it now works, all the first mission it didn't.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

three hours to unlock a single new unit. yeah no, fuck off. the unlock mechanism itself is absolutely retarded in a game like this.

 

[Desman]

three hours to unlock a single new unit. yeah no, fuck off. the unlock mechanism itself is absolutely retarded in a game like this.

I think it's just a way to hide the fact that this game lacks a lot of content and is pretty shallow and extremly repetitive after a couple of hours. So they make you grind to unlock stuff.
It's pretty sad because the potential is here.

They really need to add new mechanics like shooting on units engaged in melee or reacting to charges. Also while the "rogue-like" campaign is serviceable a true campaign with a world map and an actual story would make the game way more interesting.

 

[RaggleFraggle]

I think the game would also hugely benefit from having static 3d models and an army painter similar to Moonbreaker. Maybe even animated 3d models at some point.