Solasta Solasta II - Journey to the Lands of Neokos in the Unreal Engine - coming to Early Access - Demo available

[Lacrymas]

There's 4 fights in the demo:
>tutorial fight against crabs, with some platforms
>optional fight against kobolds that you can talk your way out of
>side quest fight against crabs, where you have to defend suicidal fishermen NPCs
>the final fight where you defend an obelisk, while platforms around it explode, and having to take 1 action per turn to stabilize it.

There's another optional crab fight if you go back to the stoneman's house after the tide has lowered.

I didn't see any interactable doors either, just open and closed spaces. NPCs don't react if you loot chests near them.

There are at least 2 doors - one in the mayor's house and one for the general store.

 

[whocares]

There's 4 fights in the demo:
>tutorial fight against crabs, with some platforms
>optional fight against kobolds that you can talk your way out of
>side quest fight against crabs, where you have to defend suicidal fishermen NPCs
>the final fight where you defend an obelisk, while platforms around it explode, and having to take 1 action per turn to stabilize it.

There's another optional crab fight if you go back to the stoneman's house after the tide has lowered.

I didn't see any interactable doors either, just open and closed spaces. NPCs don't react if you loot chests near them.

There are at least 2 doors - one in the mayor's house and one for the general store.

And the mayor does react if you try to loot her chests. She doesn't do anything about it, but she does complain.

Also, a really neat bit of reactivity comes from persuading the kobolds that you're one of them. Then they help you out in the final battle. And surprisingly, they come from a direction where a fuck-you how-do-I-even-get-to-you caster is hiding, so it feels actually useful.

 

[whydoibother]

And the mayor does react if you try to loot her chests. She doesn't do anything about it, but she does complain.

That's what I meant. She says she'll check on her stuff when you leave, but you just know nothing will happen (not just because of the scope of the demo). Elsewhere in the town, you can also loot some guy's chest. In the kobold cave, if you befriend them, they let you loot one chest, commenting its the stone guy's stuff.

The doors, I must've forgotten, I guess they exist.

 

[Artyoan]

Artyoan you know what I’m gonna ask… difficulty/encounter-design? Any signs of lessons learned?

The areas where battles take place do have multiple points with which to seek cover and both melee/ranged units with the occasional caster enemies. The actual pathing isn't quite as restricted as I might have made it but it is far and away better than many of Solasta 1's wide open areas where there is little to no cover which were basically smash bros final destination style fighting.

There are only a handful of encounters but in all but one of them they surrounded the party while still giving the player time to react to melee units closing the gap. The final fight involves a gimmick where you need to 'heal' a device (using one person's main action) that is destroying parts of the environment and hurting itself every round, while melee/ranged/caster enemies spawn in. It's a good fight and they did knock my rogue unconscious. That fight is going to gameover a lot of the more casual crowd, especially if they aren't familiar with Solasta 1.

So yes, they seem to have learned some things. I didn't struggle much prior to the last fight but I was getting favorable rolls. If anything, my biggest complaint about the difficulty was some ranged enemies having too low of health and therefore too easy to remove the danger factor.

 

[Roguey]

Combat is still the janky 5E miss fest you can't do anything about.

You can miss in Solasta?

You sure you didn't boot up a different game?

The perils of unchecking Helpful Dice because you want to be hardcore.

 

[Lacrymas]

The perils of unchecking Helpful Dice because you want to be hardcore.

Yes, I did uncheck helpful dice, just like I did in Solasta 1. It just goes to show how much the RNG can fuck you and you can't do anything about it if you need the computer to fudge dice rolls. Maybe everyone is playing with that setting on and that's why they aren't seeing the same problems I am? The fundamental problem here is not RNG in itself but that you aren't given any/enough tools to mitigate the RNG. Bless is the only thing you are given and it eats up a concentration slot. Yeah, I dislike buff stacking too, but that doesn't mean buffs should be so weak and unhelpful. Bless should make you auto-hit the next turn imo, so casting Bless on the Sorcerer is worth the action. The fewer buffs you can stack, the more each one should count (not as much as Haste, though).

 

[Roguey]

Of all sad words of mouth or pen, the saddest are these: Josh Sawyer was right again.

 

[Lacrymas]

I've always maintained he was right, just his solutions being shaky and dubious at best.

 

[whocares]

Yes, I did uncheck helpful dice, just like I did in Solasta 1. It just goes to show how much the RNG can fuck you and you can't do anything about it if you need the computer to fudge dice rolls. Maybe everyone is playing with that setting on and that's why they aren't seeing the same problems I am?

Most people (among those who know what the C in cRPG stand for) turn it off an enjoy missing. It makes things exciting and unpredictable. You just have weird priorities, as evidenced by this and your insistence that 2d10 is better than d20 because it leads to more average rolls. People don't want average rolls.

The fundamental problem here is not RNG in itself but that you aren't given any/enough tools to mitigate the RNG. Bless is the only thing you are given and it eats up a concentration slot. Yeah, I dislike buff stacking too, but that doesn't mean buffs should be so weak and unhelpful. Bless should make you auto-hit the next turn imo, so casting Bless on the Sorcerer is worth the action. The fewer buffs you can stack, the more each one should count (not as much as Haste, though).

Buff stacking has never been a problem and every attempt to mitigate it that wasn't "limit rest spam" has been complete and utter shit. And every reasonable player doesn't need the game to have rest-limiting mechanics and just naturally refuses to rest until it's impossible to go on. That said, 5E concentration is stupid.

 

[Lacrymas]

It makes things exciting and unpreditable only when it doesn't completely invalidate tactics, yet it does in 5E, necessitating combat encounters being as simple and easy as possible so players feel like their tactical choices mean something (when in reality they don't). Buff stacking has three major problems, one in tabletop, one on PC and one in both. The problem exclusive to tabletop is that it makes bookkeeping really tedious and slows the game down unnecessarily. The problem on PC is that it takes forever to cast the spells and devs don't feel it necessary to expedite the process by making buffing outside of combat instant. The issue that pertains to both, and the biggest one of them all, is that it makes balance impossible. You either balance around stacking buffs, which has subproblems of which buffs exactly, needing to take specific classes which provide these buffs and the philosophical question of why not bake the buffs into the classes themselves if they are so crucial; or balance around no buffs which causes buff stacking to trivialize the game. 5E's solution with concentration is not successful because it caused Haste to be the only buff ever worth casting.

 

[Nortar]

Just finished the demo.

* Combat.

The areas allow different angles of approach and have varied terrain with elevation, cover and choke-points for more tactical approach.
It's very promising, but it was not required on the demo difficulty though.

Enemies seem to approach from different sides and attempt to surround the party.
Nearly every encounter had additional spawn waves of the enemies.
I hope the game won't rely heavily on "reinforcements from nowhere" the DA2 style.

I liked that there seems to be more "object interaction" as a part of combat encounters.
Like the optional crab encounter where you can destroy the "crab den" to prevent it from spawning more crabs.
It would have been cool, if it did not run out of fresh crabs by 2nd round.

* Exploration.

As someone already pointed out before, I also noticed how the Mayor warned me againgt looting her house.
I took everything that was not nailed down just to see her reaction, but she never mentioned it again.

TA still goes against human (and especially dwarven) nature to give us loot that should not be looted.
If it's in a chest, I want to have it myself damn it, not rely on some "dungeon helpers" picking it up some time later.
Who knows if they are trustworthy lot?! Would those cleaners bring me stuff if I skip looking inside chests or won't check bodies for loot?
At least let us have something like "zone stash" the way Owlcats do, so we know what items are marked to be carried out by the janitors.

Lots of stuff has no clear purpose. There are like 3 different kinds of shells.
Should I pick the to sell later, would they be needed for some quest?
What about books and maps? Some are even mentioned in the party banter, but can not be read or otherwise used.

* The really important stuff! Myzzrym

The dwarf model is ok-ish, but would be much better with broader shoulders and/or more massive hands.
Otherwise dwarves look like scaled down humans.
Also Knut, being a respectable paladin and all, could use a better groomed (not so fuzzy) beard.

 

[Alienman]

Of all sad words of mouth or pen, the saddest are these: Josh Sawyer was right again.

Of what?

 

[Roguey]

Of all sad words of mouth or pen, the saddest are these: Josh Sawyer was right again.

Of what?

Being against extreme RNG.

I know the math, but why do you prefer the second? Do you prefer the second for in-game random for digital games? It makes extremes rarer, why is that desirable?

Especially at lower levels, the integer values of player bonuses are fairly insignificant compared to the range of the die vs. static target difficulty increases. Being “good” at something doesn’t have as much mechanical weight as players might expect or want.

Hi Josh, isn't this an argument in favour of karmic dice in BG3?

No. It is neither functionally the same nor is the outcome the same, and I think these are important considerations in the design of these mechanics.2d10 (e.g.) has a distribution that is fairly easy to understand and each instance is unrelated to previous instances.

This is an important element in RNG. Rolling any combo of numbers 10 times has no impact on what will be rolled the 11th time.Rolling 2 2s on 2d20 is rare but not extraordinary. Rolling 2 2s on 2x2d10 *is* extraordinary. However, these are *all* mechanically transparent events.

Karmic Dice reifies the Gambler's Fallacy and it does so opaquely. It may produce the feeling that players want, but it's doing so in a way that, IMO, clouds an aspect of gaming (RNG) that is already murky for players.

I have absolutely zero problem with its existence or inclusion. However, as a designer, I do dislike that it is turned on by default without players being made aware of it, because to an unwitting player, it produces results that reinforce fallacious ideas about RNG.

 

[Lacrymas]

Josh Sawyer is correct. Like he usually is about these things.

 

[Mortmal]

The dwarf model is ok-ish, but would be much better with broader shoulders and/or more massive hands.
Otherwise dwarves look like scaled down humans.
Also Knut, being a respectable paladin and all, could use a better groomed (not so fuzzy) beard.

It's a bit of nitpicking, but that's a good sign. Usually, when I criticize a game, it's about fundamentally broken issues. Here, we're reaching the level of criticism seen for games like BG3, where everything else is right, and it's really just about small details.

So, nitpicking I am—the dwarf model's beard is clipping with the plate armor.

 

[Infinitron]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2387285352

 

[Artyoan]

Having less control over combat RNG in low levels should be expected because your character is a rookie with less skills, which then enhances the feeling of progression to a veteran that hits much more regularly. The bad emphasizes the good rather than keeping it even long term.

Combatting the RNG comes from more than bless. The player gets magic weapons, imposes disadvantage, gains advantage, bless can be on potions that are typically easy to acquire with no concentration component, proper attributes chosen, feats/fighting-styles, and there are optional flanking/height rules potentially. I tend to have less issue with Sawyer's logic than his desire for too much grip on progression/systems that makes it feel bland and 'balanced'.

In Solasta, an initial plan can go wildly different depending on hits landing or spells being saved. That then constitutes new planning and reaction mid-battle. The same fight, the same approach, can go wildly different necessitating different resources used to regain control. This is good imo. I don't feel like I'm at the mercy of the dice at any level either, even levels 1-3 are entirely tolerable. Streaks of good and bad happen but they aren't determining my success.

 

[Lacrymas]

Having less control over combat RNG in low levels should be expected because your character is a rookie with less skills, which then enhances the feeling of progression to a veteran that hits much more regularly. The bad emphasizes the good rather than keeping it even long term.

It should be the other way around in 5E as it is now and would make as much logical sense as you describe - the enemies become more experienced and tougher to beat, but you also have much more powerful abilities and spells which are way more devastating if they land than lower level ones. When you are low level, a bad RNG streak can and will fuck you up, not so much at higher level. It actually doesn't make much sense for lowly goblins to be masters at dodging and defending while high level enemies are punching bags.

I don't feel like I'm at the mercy of the dice at any level either, even levels 1-3 are entirely tolerable. Streaks of good and bad happen but they aren't determining my success.

It really depends on what classes you bring. The more overpowered ones obviously have fewer problems, but are still more or less dependent on RNG. Getting advantage isn't as easy as you make it out to be at lower levels either. Oh, and it depends somewhat on your stats too, if you roll until you have 18 on your main attributes (something I suspect even 'Dex members are doing) then you'll have even fewer problems. What I am assuming is happening with people who aren't getting what I mean or think I'm making this shit up is that they do some combination of four things. 1) Play the most overpowered classes/parties; 2) Don't use point buy and roll until they get 18s; 3) Have karmic dice turned on; 4) Play on lower difficulties (I play Solasta on Scavanger). I suspect all four at once in some cases, but I would agree that the difficulty level is a thing I'm imposing on myself and is not necessarily a part of the system.

 

[lukaszek]

20d1

 

[Lacrymas]

I just finished the demo and it was indeed one of the demos of all time. First the good:

1. It looks better than Solasta 1. Good job.
2. Animations are faster.
3. Pathfinding is good. You can click anywhere from anywhere and the party will go there on their own.

The bad:

1. The demo, and I assume the game proper judging from it, is balanced around rest spamming/being able to rest whenever. What tells me this is how you can have 3 relatively big fights back to back to back if you return to stoneman's hut/cave/home/whatever it is when the tide is low. I knew to return there because the map told me there was seaweed there and I couldn't get to it the first time around. You get the optional crab fight with the crab nest and an alternate route to the nexus from there. There is no way to know there is another fight after the first corrupted stonepeople, so you can blow half your load on the crabs, not go rest, blow your second half of the load on the first corrupted stonepeople and have 0 good options in the end battle, maybe making it impossible or heavily RNG dependent. I had the good sense to go rest after the crabs, so it wasn't an issue, but it seems like it's balanced around that.
2. Computerized 5E without any regard for the lack of DM, just like Solasta 1. I already covered this.
3. I'm assuming the entire budget went into voice acting and graphics. I'll be expecting this and only clear evidence of the contrary will convince me otherwise.
4. Disney-esque/modern D&D-esque without any edge. Multicultural small fishing villages that rival modern metropolises. Very BioWare circa Mass Effect Andromeda in a bad way. Probably trying to ape Larian too, but less so.
5. Unoptimized, but it did get a lot better when I got out of the village. Since I'm not the only one feeling this, it's probably not optimized. It's pre-alpha, though, so I'll let it slide for now.
6. Three almost identical fights one after the other whose gimmicks are a welcome addition but not really enough. The first crab battle after getting down from the lift, the second crab battle with the suicidal fishermen and the third optional crab battle with the crab nest. They can spice them up just a little bit more, like the crab nest not running out of fresh crabs after 2 rounds, so it's not all bad. However, having experienced Solasta's abysmal encounter design, I don't have much hope here either.

All in all, It's not different enough from Solasta 1, so it really depends on how you felt about 1 and how much they've reiterated on it. The game needs better encounter design and a much better campaign. I can't judge this from the demo, obviously, but it would be severely disappointing if we get the same thing with the sequel just with prettier graphics. If you like it, then great, but I'm not particularly convinced it's not just because it's a turn-based 5E RPG from an indie studio without any regard for the quality of the content itself.

 

[SlightlyRadioactive]

1. The demo, and I assume the game proper judging from it, is balanced around rest spamming/being able to rest whenever. What tells me this is how you can have 3 relatively big fights back to back to back if you return to stoneman's hut/cave/home/whatever it is when the tide is low. I knew to return there because the map told me there was seaweed there and I couldn't get to it the first time around. You get the optional crab fight with the crab nest and an alternate route to the nexus from there. There is no way to know there is another fight after the first corrupted stonepeople, so you can blow half your load on the crabs, not go rest, blow your second half of the load on the first corrupted stonepeople and have 0 good options in the end battle, maybe making it impossible or heavily RNG dependent. I had the good sense to go rest after the crabs, so it wasn't an issue, but it seems like it's balanced around that.

Idk man, I've beaten the demo resting only once and found the battles to be on the easier side. And I'm not particularly skilled when it comes to turn-based combat.

 

[Lacrymas]

1. The demo, and I assume the game proper judging from it, is balanced around rest spamming/being able to rest whenever. What tells me this is how you can have 3 relatively big fights back to back to back if you return to stoneman's hut/cave/home/whatever it is when the tide is low. I knew to return there because the map told me there was seaweed there and I couldn't get to it the first time around. You get the optional crab fight with the crab nest and an alternate route to the nexus from there. There is no way to know there is another fight after the first corrupted stonepeople, so you can blow half your load on the crabs, not go rest, blow your second half of the load on the first corrupted stonepeople and have 0 good options in the end battle, maybe making it impossible or heavily RNG dependent. I had the good sense to go rest after the crabs, so it wasn't an issue, but it seems like it's balanced around that.

Idk man, I've beaten the demo resting only once and found the battles to be on the easier side. And I'm not particularly skilled when it comes to turn-based combat.

I'm sure it's eminently possible even if you don't know there are three "big" battles one after the other in the end. Or if you don't go to the optional crab nest battle, obviously. But it's going to be a pain and you'll be spamming cantrips in the end. Something I doubt the devs intended for the average player. I wonder what it's like if you kill the kobolds *and* do the optional crab fight then not rest at all, but my curiosity is not piqued enough to try it myself. Oh, and did you uncheck helpful dice? That option helps more than people realize.

Another thing that I just remembered. You can't precast a spell to enter a battle. If you try to do it, it prompts you whether you want to start a fight and if you say yes you'll roll initiative and it won't register the offensive spell cast before the combat start. I wanted to twin spell a frostbolt onto two of the melee stone guys before the battle, but couldn't. There are also some bugs, like the ranger stone guy knowing immediately where the sneaking rogue is although he shouldn't able to see her and sometimes not having any movement at the start of the turn, forcing me to end the turn without having done anything.

 

[SlightlyRadioactive]

I'm sure it's eminently possible even if you don't know there are three "big" battles one after the other in the end. Or if you don't go to the optional crab nest battle, obviously. But it's going to be a pain and you'll be spamming cantrips in the end. Something I doubt the devs intended for the average player. I wonder what it's like if you kill the kobolds *and* do the optional crab fight then not rest at all, but my curiosity is not piqued enough to try it myself. Oh, and did you uncheck helpful dice? That option helps more than people realize.

If you pay a bit of attention to the levels you can easily spot some hidden enemies before beginning to fight on at least 2 of the encounters.
I did all optional content with the exception of fighting the kobolds.
Also, isn't spamming cantrips the point? Like, they don't have a limit exactly for this reason, so you get to use your spell slots only when needed.

I decided to keep helpful dice enabled, it seems the devs prefer it that way, since it was that way by default. Maybe having them disabled really makes that big of a difference.

 

[Lacrymas]

I mean you'll only be able to spam cantrips because you blew your entire spellbook on the two fights before it. "Don't use your spells!" I hear you cry. Yeah, sure, I won't do that the next time I metagame and know there are three big fights one after the other and that there are only 2 crabs in the crab nest. I know what tricks devs think will get me, but almost all of them are extremely predictable and don't have the balls to restrict resting, so so much for that. The moment resting is not restricted is the moment I know the game is not "hardcore" enough for me to worry too much about spell usage either way and that the devs assume you are going to rest spam.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

Looks like a BG3 ripoff. Same camera, similar art style, dark fantasy, similar combat, etc.