Skyrim is worse than Oblivion in every way

[Crevice tab]

Neither game has good quest design.

Shit, even Morrowind probably doesn't (though it gave every quest great context in the world).

Morrowind's quests are good if taken individually or in the context of the greater world. They do tend to feel a bit simplistic and repetitive once you play enough of them but it's a relatively minor issue compared to most games out there.

Morrowind's quest directions were iffy as fuck. "Walk this way until you find a pile of rocks, then go south until you find the cave. Good luck!"

That's part of Morrowind's charm. You're supposed to feel like you're in an uncharted frontier, a 'Wild West' of sorts. Also less than precise directions means that you can stumble about new locations and generally get to explore the world better.

Otherwise the whole game would be limited to the lame and predictable go in the direction of the quest marker, levitate/jump over obstacles, reach dungeon. Morrowind has a huge ass map with the player's current position and important sites marked on it if you really get lost so finding stuff isn't that hard but you get incentives and good reasons to explore instead of just acting like a guided missile.

 

[DalekFlay]

Neither game has good quest design.

Shit, even Morrowind probably doesn't (though it gave every quest great context in the world).

Morrowind's quest directions were iffy as fuck. "Walk this way until you find a pile of rocks, then go south until you find the cave. Good luck!"

I liked that in moderation, it did do it a little too often. Still the world they built and the context they gave every quest were impressive. In comparison Skyrim is often just like "hey go find my journal please" whereas in Morrowind the quest would be largely identical but it would feel like a spy mission for one faction against another, with lots of social and historical asides sprinkled throughout. That matters, to me at least.

 

[DraQ]

I agree. Although I would add -- systems can and should be abstracted to be made simpler, esp for Skyrim type games; however, outcomes should remain complex. The problem is when systems are made simpler and the outcome is ALSO made more simple. That is not as fun.

That's the problem with abstraction.

The whole abstract VS realistic system is kind of a mixed bag. If the realism is attainable you should always consider if you want to go through with it.

For example: Morrowind has five different skills for its melee weapons, yet nineteen different types of weapons. Would Morrowind have been better by having different skills for clubs, maces, hammers and staffs instead of just the Blunt skill? I think not. On the other hand, Skyrim takes to its extreme: only seven melee weapon types spread over two skills, which was not well-received.

The funny thing here is that both systems are pretty much orthogonal to each other - Morrowind's concentrated on weapon's type, Skyrim's on weapon's handedness.
If you're going for few skills there is nothing inherently wrong with Skyrim's approach - it may even have some ground in reality - in Talhoffer, for example you have mostly similar techniques used with an array of vastly different 2h weapons.
Of course, there is nothing inherently wrong with Morrowind's approach either (although it should have had 1h spears to make spear+block builds valid).
You could even combine both systems although you'd probably need to exclude daggers as null-weapons of sort, governed only by base stats, which would actually reinforce their role as circumstantial weapons.

In the end there is a lot of freedom in deciding how to partition your skills and how granular your system should be. Part of the question here is relative balance of different skills - most of the time you can consolidate skills that feel weak or circumstantial or split too powerful ones and still have them make sense.

 

[Luzur]

Neither game has good quest design.

Shit, even Morrowind probably doesn't (though it gave every quest great context in the world).

Morrowind's quest directions were iffy as fuck. "Walk this way until you find a pile of rocks, then go south until you find the cave. Good luck!"

I liked that in moderation, it did do it a little too often. Still the world they built and the context they gave every quest were impressive. In comparison Skyrim is often just like "hey go find my journal please" whereas in Morrowind the quest would be largely identical but it would feel like a spy mission for one faction against another, with lots of social and historical asides sprinkled throughout. That matters, to me at least.

I had to use the Construction Set one time to locate a half-sunken hidden cave, but that was the only time my adventure skills failed me.

 

[Turjan]

Morrowind's quest directions were iffy as fuck. "Walk this way until you find a pile of rocks, then go south until you find the cave. Good luck!"

I don't think it was that often. There was the one with the naked Nord and the witch north of Caldera everyone stumbled over, so it's a shared experience*. The Redoran quests had several cases of iffy directions. On the other hand, nearly all the other directions were fine. The iffy ones tend to stick in mind as they took so much time.

*I just checked, and the directions were actually correct. They just looked wrong because of the road layout.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Also because "north of Caldera" is one big open area. It's pretty easy to walk past the witch because she was hidden behind a little hill.

I like Skyrim's approach to weapon handling better because the "I'm a master swordsman...oh god a short blade I have no idea how to use this, fuck" problem always seemed retarded in a single player game. If you're playing with other people and you can just give the weapon to someone who likes it then it's less noticeable.

 

[Gord]

Morrowind did have its fair share of pretty shitty quests.
"Yo there, unknown armed to the teeth stranger I just encountered in the middle of the ashlands, deliver this here piece of merchandise to some random NPC on the other side of the continent so he can pay you 143 gold pieces for it."

 

[AW8]

Really? The entire quest line for 3 of the guilds in Skyrim is go to dungeon, kill stuff, collect item, go to next dungeon.

[...]

The quest lines were garbage though, no variation, nothing of interest anywhere, just cave after cave after cave.

That is true. Something is wrong when the Thieves Guild has you delving into dungeon after dungeon (and never stealing anything, to boot).

At least Oblivion's Thieves Guild had you stealing stuff and screwing with Hieronymous Lex.

 

[Crevice tab]

That is true. Something is wrong when the Thieves Guild has you delving into dungeon after dungeon (and never stealing anything, to boot).

At least Oblivion's Thieves Guild had you stealing stuff and screwing with Hieronymous Lex.

The Thieves Guild quests are Skyrim's absolute worst and Oblivion's absolute best.

 

[Gord]

Really? The entire quest line for 3 of the guilds in Skyrim is go to dungeon, kill stuff, collect item, go to next dungeon.

[...]

The quest lines were garbage though, no variation, nothing of interest anywhere, just cave after cave after cave.

That is true. Something is wrong when the Thieves Guild has you delving into dungeon after dungeon (and never stealing anything, to boot).

At least Oblivion's Thieves Guild had you stealing stuff and screwing with Hieronymous Lex.

There's plenty of thievery in the radiant quests, which would lead to improvements to the thieves guild HQ. It wouldn't have hurt to have a better main faction quest line of course, but in principle they were a good addition.

 

[AW8]

That is true. Something is wrong when the Thieves Guild has you delving into dungeon after dungeon (and never stealing anything, to boot).

At least Oblivion's Thieves Guild had you stealing stuff and screwing with Hieronymous Lex.

The Thieves Guild quests are Skyrim's absolute worst and Oblivion's absolute best.

I'm a sucker for secret passageways and hideouts, so I enjoyed Skyrim's TG plenty. Not to mention I loved Skyrim's improvement on stealth, as well as the visual design of the unique items you got in the questline (Nightingale armor and Chillrend).

It's just that the plot turns out to be nonsense. Like the Companions you also end up doing something insanely unexpected in the end, that has no connection to how the questline started.

In the first few missions, you steal and sabotage on the orders of your benefactor. But then you start doing things that have nothing to do with being a thief, like hunting down a traitor, deciphering an encoded journal, joining a religious cult and duking it out with the bad guy before everything collapses like a Hollywood movie.

And of course, dungeons. 4 quests are pure dungeon crawls, and the majority of the rest have some dungeon element in them. Instead of sneaking into the palace, or a vault, or the guard barracks, you crawl around in the sewers or a skeever-infested cave.

There's plenty of thievery in the radiant quests, which would lead to improvements to the thieves guild HQ. It wouldn't have hurt to have a better main faction quest line of course, but in principle they were a good addition.

That's what happens when they introduce "infinite quests!".

The radiant TG quests are not only terribly boring and generic. They're where the actual thievery of the guild is located. Worse, the "upgrade quests" that give you more fences, vendors and the ability to bribe guards to get rid of your bounty (actually good rewards!) is hidden behind the radiant sludge.

I did one or two radiant TG quests before I realized they were pointless crap. When I'd finished the TG questline, I found out on UESP about the upgrade quests, and that you had to do 5 radiant quests in every city to unlock them.

I have nothing against Bethesda adding these retarded infinite quests for when the player has run out of quests (Jarl puts a bounty on a bandit leader, please rid us of this dragon etc.) but I hate how they put the radiant quests in questlines in lieu of real quests. Handcrafting a quest where you go after a piece of Ysgramor's axe in a dungeon specifically designed to hold the piece of the axe is always gonna be better than to travel with Aela the Huntress to dungeon Y-5 in search of the Boss Chest™ which for today contains Quest Item #133.

 

[DalekFlay]

Really annoying thing was Skyrim's Thieve's Guild started out great with that bee hive mansion quest. That was some good stuff. Then they totally fucked it up after that.

 

[AW8]

That quest was a may sing!!!

No but it was a really fun experience for me. It was one of the first quests I did in Skyrim, so I was still getting into the improved stealth system. My Sneak skill was around 30 or so, so I wasn't invisible in plain sight yet. I had to hide behind things as I waited for the "stealth indicator eye" to close. And I thought there'd be "blood money" penalties like in Oblivion, so I sneaked through the quest without killing anyone.

At one point, there was a guard I couldn't sneak by without being seen. So I equipped my bow and fired an arrow into a wooden pole on the other side of the room, which caused him to search the area of the arrow while I snuck past him. Now, Skyrim isn't the pinnacle of stealth gaming. But it was enjoyable, nothing in the game told me I could do that and as such it was a rewarding and memorable moment.

After I had gone in and out for the sale of bill, I lit the beehives on fire upon which the guards spotted me. So I ran to the shore and escaped into the water, and swam away from the island. :D

After that, the quest rewards got better, the plot got dumber, and the thief connection grew thinner for every quest.

 

[DraQ]

Even the College of Winterhold main questline in Skyrim, which left you with the vague feeling of mental discomfort and pointlessness, was immeasurably better than any of the questlines in OB.

Really? The entire quest line for 3 of the guilds in Skyrim is go to dungeon, kill stuff, collect item, go to next dungeon. From you first moments in the College that is all you do in the main questline. That's not even mentioning the actual retarded breakneck pace of the whole experience.

At least Oblivion had some variety, trying to get that shitty ring out of the well, the invisible cat dude who watched his whole guild build be burned down, discovering and hunting down the rogue mage after meeting up with an assistant, creating your own staff after being accepted into the university, also had that one amusing quest where you are sent to recover a book and instead get ambushed by vampires after which you are informed good job the book was just an excuse to get you to do the job. It was all very scripted and no C&C sure but at least I can remember some things from it. Compare that with Skyrim where all I remember is an undead dragon, arrogant elf and magical orb of doom which no one ever explains.

Still better than "NECROMANRS AR EBIL BECAUSE THEYA RE NECROMANCERS AND ALSO EVIL!!!1" *everyone* *always* explains, repeatedly.


Skyrim's CoW questline was pretty awful. Maybe not individual quests, although they were awfully linear, but as a whole it was short, badly paced and ultimately pointless (if PSJJJ dudes could teleport the orb afterwards than why not immediately after - or before - its discovery? What did letting the orb be discovered accomplish?). The thing is OB MG questline was just as linear, maybe longer and more purposeful but also insultingly banal and idiotic, not to mention culminating in killing a supposedly demi-god (at the very list) lich that turned out to be a pudgy, potato-headed altmer.
It didn't have particularly good quests - even by TES standards - either.
Such a riveting quests as creating your staff actually consisted fighting necromancers in a cave, so pot, kettle, black.
At least Skyrim's questline consisted of a somewhat connected sequence of events (even though it reached retarded conclusion) rather than repeated counts of "necromancers have unexpectedly fucked us once again because they are evil".
Then, you have the fact that while Skyrim questline was over two times shorter, the faction as a whole had roughly comparable number of quests because of faction sidequests - at least one of which was involved to the point of being mini questline, and some of which were skill gated and pretty decent as well (master ritual spells).

Tired of people saying Skyrim quests lines were better, they were prettier and the combat was more fun especially after mods, which makes Skyrim the better game. The quest lines were garbage though, no variation, nothing of interest anywhere, just cave after cave after cave.

They were. They were, however, much less garbage than anything in OB, with possible exception of OB TG (although it was p. garbage too, especially towards the end).

 

[Dreaad]

^ Yeah except I'm not even talking about the shitty back story involved in either game's guild quests. I'm just talking about what you are asked to do. Skyrim goes something like this

- welcome to the guild lets go to a dungeon together and kill everything inside
- wow that's an interesting orb, we need books to decide what to do, where are the books you ask?.... in a dungeon where you have to kill everything
- hey books! hmm not enough information, you should go talk to secret source of knowledge, where is this knowledge you ask?.... in a dungeon where you have to kill everything
- ok we need to find where magic artifacts of power are, how do we find out you ask?....go find a mage in dungeon where you have to kill everything
- hey you're back! stuff has attacked the town go kill 5 orbs of light flying around right outside
- ok time to get magical items to stop this evil, so where is the staff?.... oh I see so you have to go to a dungeon and kill everything do you.... ok
- ok you're back! time to fight the obviously evil elf dude who unexpectedly activated orb of doom

I am fully aware evil necromancers infiltrating mage guild and using black souls gems isn't a great plot especially not when you drag good lore in and ruin it. Still better than random evil orb vs secret super hero teleporting mages and the chosen one. This though I suppose is matter of personal taste and not objective.

 

[DalekFlay]

After that, the quest rewards got better, the plot got dumber, and the thief connection grew thinner for every quest.

Yup, good summary. My experience was the same. I expected 10 more missions of that and got... none.

 

[DraQ]

There was not a single procedurally generated dungeon in Oblivion but keep repeating that Hines's (who is dumb ololo) crap about "every dungeon in Skyrim is handcrafted" like they weren't in previous Beth games.

Technically true.

Emphasis on "technically".

A simple test:
After having played both games

Spoiler

take a look at pretty much random screenshot of a dungeon or over the shoulder of a person playing.
In Skyrim you'll usually be able to instantly identify the place, in Oblivion, with few exceptions, you'll only be able to tell dungeon's type.

The reason for that is simple - Skyrim dungeons are often kitbashes, feature more organic, non-standard angles between elements as well as other off-grid arrangements (thanks to masking components covering the seams and intersections) and generally less cookie-cutter approach. In this regard they allowed a good bit of the kind of freeform design that was the norm in the times of BSP based geometry rather than prefabricated 3D tiles.

Oblivion's dungeons, OTOH were generally assembled out of pre-arranged chunks of architecture and clutter, while strictly following tileset identity, grid alignment, even lighting conventions. Basically, other than a small handful of one-shot quest dungeons there are about 5 dungeons in Oblivion, each repeated dozens of times in somewhat rearranged fashion.

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Joel.../Skyrims_Modular_Approach_to_Level_Design.php

So yeah, Oblivion's dungeons are handmade - in the same sense as Chinese consumer electronics.

Also Daggerfall's dungeons are (somewhat) randomly generated.

At least in Daggerfall they were smart enough to have a machine put them together for them. Also at least in Daggerfall they were big and actually nonlinear, so while dull as fuck they offered some meaningful gameplay.

Skyrim's Dark Brotherhood quest has almost no dungeons, the Civil War and Thieves quests are relatively light on dungeons as well and the secondary quests of most other factions rarely involve much dungeoning. Skyrim's quests aren't brilliant but they aren't quite as dungeon focused as you make them sound. Also are you truly pretending that 'generic altmer that is supposed to be the uber-Mythical necromancer that somehow frightens everyone despite being totally retarded' and 'hurr- necromancers aren't 100% evil except they are, durr- we all juggle multiple idiot balls' is in any way better than 'mysterious orb of doom is mysterious and various power hungry mages battle for it'. Sure Skyrim ain't Shakespeare but at least the writers started to recognize their limitations and make small improvements here and there (except for the Thieves Guild quest- the Skyrim TG questline is seriously retarded).

It just occurred to me, Skyrim's CoW questline would be almost completely repaired (shortness and pacing aside) just by removing the early Psjjjic appearance.
At the cost of downplaying PSJJJ's near- omniscience and omnipotence (but upping their general competence) you'd have a logical sequence of events where they would be reacting to the appearance of big glowy orb of doom in the CoW, rather than retardedly wasting an opportunity to preempt it.

Neither game has good quest design.

Shit, even Morrowind probably doesn't (though it gave every quest great context in the world).

No TES has well designed individual quests.
The difference is between simplistic ones that can be approached from almost any angle, and rigidly scripted derpcoasters.

Another difference is between combat centric crawls and quests centered around less game'y stuff, but pretty much only Morrowind had any success here - the value of a non-gamey quest is directly proportional to the value and non-gaminess of underlying fluff it relates to (for example information you're to obtain), so the small handful of non gamey quests in OB autofail in this regard.

Strength of Morrowind's quests didn't lie in the quests themselves. It lied in the picture of the world they painted and lack of contrivances.
It also lied in the way the organically interconnected - actually, Beth seemed to try and replicate this sort of structure in Skyrim (quests organically leading into one another) and they desrve some credit for that, especially after the disjointed mess that was oblivion, but having opted for their rigid scripts and unpickable locks it turned out a sordid failure more than a few times - in Morrowind it worked precisely because there were no unpickable locks and tightly scripted questlines to unexpectedly make an entire faction questline a necessary step in an unrelated misc quest.

^ Yeah except I'm not even talking about the shitty back story involved in either game's guild quests. I'm just talking about what you are asked to do. Skyrim goes something like this

- welcome to the guild lets go to a dungeon together and kill everything inside
- wow that's an interesting orb, we need books to decide what to do, where are the books you ask?.... in a dungeon where you have to kill everything
- hey books! hmm not enough information, you should go talk to secret source of knowledge, where is this knowledge you ask?.... in a dungeon where you have to kill everything
- ok we need to find where magic artifacts of power are, how do we find out you ask?....go find a mage in dungeon where you have to kill everything
- hey you're back! stuff has attacked the town go kill 5 orbs of light flying around right outside
- ok time to get magical items to stop this evil, so where is the staff?.... oh I see so you have to go to a dungeon and kill everything do you.... ok
- ok you're back! time to fight the obviously evil elf dude who unexpectedly activated orb of doom

And oblivion's goes:
(in any order)
- go find a proof of 1x ranking guild member evil and retarded and wants to kill you for no reason on behalf of this guild member (proof is just outside the building, 2 min maybe)
- steal an item or cast dispel once (inside the same building, 15s tops)
- steal an item or buy it back
- go to a dungeon and kill everything there, retrieve 1x incompetent moron
- go to a dungeon and kill everything there plus a necromancer, retrieve 1x magical trinket
- fetch an item for one party, optionally steal it back and give it to the other party, order doesn't matter
- go to a middle of a road and kill everything there (1x wild woman)
(ordered)
- go make yourself a staff just kidding, to a cave (why is it even a cave?) and kill everyone there, retrieve 1x incomplete staff
- ok, that's one is almost decent - the closest OB comes to political matters and fetaures 1x non-evil (or at least non hurrr-evil) vampire.
- go to a dungeon (apply 1x solution that is handed to you to a "puzzle", but since similar details are omitted in your Skyrim's quest description...) and kill everything, retrieve 1x PJ's LoTR ripoff
- go to a dungeon and kill everything (note - you actually don't *have to* kill everything, but save for the Labyrinthian you can bypass combat in CoW quest dungeons too, if you see fit, so let's not have the facts get in our way).
- go to a dungeon and kill everything
- do your 1x vampire acquaintance a favour consisting of going to a dungeon and killing everything (although it allows several solutions and about two different values of everything).
- go to a guildhall and kill everything
(parallel)
- go to a dungeon and kill everything (retrieve 1x ugly helm)
- go to a dungeon and kill everything (the everything may pretend to be friendly at first)
(ordered)
- instruct allies to apply obvious tactics (seriously, why do you even have to manage the tactics if there is only one obvious correct option?) to ambush everything and kill it (put 1x evil retard out of his misery)
- witness an hero, then go to a cave and kill everything.

Do note that your summary also misses CoW quests outside of main questline, which are actually more numerous than the questline ones and arguably more diverse.

On an unrelated note:
I've just learned that Alexander Brandon did some of the VOs for Skyrim.

 

[Sykar]

Oblividerp is so shit that no mod in the world can fix that inexcusable mess of a giant turd. I remember being extremly excited buying it at launch day and uninstalling it the same day after "rescuing" Kvatch, which ironically was what I thought about the game. (Disclaimer, "Quatsch", a german word but pronounced similarly to Kvatch means "Nonsense")

Skyrim is at least somewhat enjoyable once you fix the most obvious crap with some mods, UI being the biggest offender. Pity you cannot get rid of that retarded quest compass since the quest texts are so barren and void of information that the quest log of Morrowind, which was a pure clusterfuck, seemed like a stroke of genius in comparison.

There was a brilliant article about why Oblivion sucks by someone called Damicat. I can only find google docs about it nowadays though.

https://sites.google.com/site/damicat/whyoblivionsucks
https://sites.google.com/site/damicat/whyoblivionsuckspart2

It was a 9 part series but I cannot find the page with all 9 parts together. If anyone is interested, just google it.

 

[Gord]

Pity you cannot get rid of that retarded quest compass since the quest texts are so barren and void of information that the quest log of Morrowind, which was a pure clusterfuck, seemed like a stroke of genius in comparison.

Try "Even better quest objectives", which while not fixing it completely at least gives the possibility to find quest objectives of a relatively large parts of the quests in the game just by the journal and without the need to use the quest compass as often.

 

[Sykar]

Pity you cannot get rid of that retarded quest compass since the quest texts are so barren and void of information that the quest log of Morrowind, which was a pure clusterfuck, seemed like a stroke of genius in comparison.

Try "Even better quest objectives", which while not fixing it completely at least gives the possibility to find quest objectives of a relatively large parts of the quests in the game just by the journal and without the need to use the quest compass as often.

Sounds good, will check out when I feel like hiking again.

 

[DraQ]

Oblividerp is so shit that no mod in the world can fix that inexcusable mess of a giant turd.

Nonsense. You can easily fix oblivion in 3 simple steps:

• replace all the content
• replace all the assets
• mod mechanics beyond recognition

At which point you need to ask yourself: "WHY am I playing oblivion in the first place?"
At least with Skyrim you can actually enjoy playing something clearly recognizable as Skyrim, hell, you can even enjoy playing vanilla, at least until the GUI eats your soul.

Pity you cannot get rid of that retarded quest compass since the quest texts are so barren and void of information that the quest log of Morrowind, which was a pure clusterfuck, seemed like a stroke of genius in comparison.

Try "Even better quest objectives", which while not fixing it completely at least gives the possibility to find quest objectives of a relatively large parts of the quests in the game just by the journal and without the need to use the quest compass as often.

This. Then disable the compass using immersive HUD mod or ini tweak.
Even without EBQO you can get rid of compass and navigate using map alone which forces you to pay attention unless you want to spend more time fiddling with GUI - and that's a powerful motivation.

As for Morrowind's journal - it *was* a stroke of genius, especially after expansions added filtering by quests.
Even without that, you had typical journal, log of everything anyone has ever said to you and ability to search topics alphabetically - how was it *NOT* a stroke of genius?

There was a brilliant article about why Oblivion sucks by someone called Damicat. I can only find google docs about it nowadays though.

https://sites.google.com/site/damicat/whyoblivionsucks
https://sites.google.com/site/damicat/whyoblivionsuckspart2

It was a 9 part series but I cannot find the page with all 9 parts together. If anyone is interested, just google it.

I'm sure pretty much everyone here has read it at some point, but yeah, it's good.

 

[Sykar]

Granted, I was a bit harsh with Morrowind's journal, which only became really hard to filter through late in the game and yes, Tribunal expansion really helped with the filter.

As to playing without compass in an unmodded Skyrim, I tried but failed. I mean Morrowind at least gave you a vague idea where to look but in Skyrim quest log? Often just nothing. "There is that sword I lost somewhere. Don't know where but sure you'll find it with the help of your magical compass". Doh

 

[DraQ]

Granted, I was a bit harsh with Morrowind's journal, which only became really hard to filter through late in the game and yes, Tribunal expansion really helped with the filter.

As to playing without compass in an unmodded Skyrim, I tried but failed. I mean Morrowind at least gave you a vague idea where to look but in Skyrim quest log? Often just nothing. "There is that sword I lost somewhere. Don't know where but sure you'll find it with the help of your magical compass". Doh

1. Kill the compass with mod or .ini (it also disables sixth sense somehow telling you that there is a dungeon behind that mountain over there).
2. Set quest as active in your quest "log".
3. Note position of the marker on the map (enjoy the UI).
4. Navigate to the spot based on your understanding of map and how it translates to terrain features
5. if unsuccessful goto 3 to enjoy the UI some more.

EBQO is *highly* recommended, but not necessary. It also doesn't touch quest mods, so you'll still get stuck with the process above sometimes.

Also, Damicat's full article:
https://sites.google.com/site/damicat/

 

[Sykar]

Thanks a lot, that's really helpful.

 

[Xenich]

Oblividerp is so shit that no mod in the world can fix that inexcusable mess of a giant turd.

Nonsense. You can easily fix oblivion in 3 simple steps:

• replace all the content
• replace all the assets
• mod mechanics beyond recognition

At which point you need to ask yourself: "WHY am I playing oblivion in the first place?"
At least with Skyrim you can actually enjoy playing something clearly recognizable as Skyrim, hell, you can even enjoy playing vanilla, at least until the GUI eats your soul.

I don't agree with your point about Skyrim, though my biggest problems with the game is that its character development systems are pointless and shallow which can't be fixed due to the engine limitations. As for Oblivion, I think you are right, the game has to be modded into hell and back to fix it. It takes FCOM (3-4 complete overhaul mods combined) that also has a slew of individual mods with it and then you add your own preference mods on top of that to end up with an enjoyable experience. It is no small task though, especially for the newcomer to dealing with all the mods and utilities. I think the first time I installed FCOM, it took me about 6-8 hours of installing, configuring, and tweaking to get the game set to play. That really is a lot of work, though for me I think it was worth it. While it is a major event to get Oblivion in a playable state, no amount of modding can repair the things I hate about Skyrim, which is unfortunate as Skyrim is really beautiful when you mod all the visuals in.