Shadowrun Shadowrun Returns Pre-Release Thread

[Ranselknulf]

I think many have underestimated the importance of voice acting

 

[shihonage]

The fact that this game uses checkpoints instead of savegames is telling. It was designed to look like a CRPG, not function like one.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Wow, you guys got riled up by a Eurogaymer review? So much for independent critical Codex thought that laughs at popamole media. I guess I should have left some other impressions after all

In fact, I have some justified doubts that this reviewer has NOT finished the (ridiculously short) game before penning this review.

Anyways!

First off, Roguey is a dirty liar (as if that wasn't obvious). The game has an easy/normal/hard/very hard difficulty setting. Finished my first playthrough on normal, only briefly played and started a hard one, but I already noticed differences - on normal NOBODY uses grenades, on hard I got mortared by the first street punk I met. So that's that. No idea how it changes later during the course of the game.

But still, on normal difficulty, the game felt pretty easy to me, too easy even. I died only a whole grand total of 3 times during the entire playthrough, and two of these times were not even in "actual" combat, but in cyberspace. It's also really BLEH-kind of easy for most of the early game, but fortunately picks up a bit when you finally start doing "full-time" runs with full parties of runners that you recruit. This is mostly around the middle of the game.

The low difficulty, however, is the product of one very, VERY bad thing. It's not the design of the set piece shootouts because some of the later ones are actually pretty damn gripping and cool, but from the fact that this game has no resource management whatsoever. Having one mage guy with heal means you'll probably never use medkits. Ammo never runs out. No special ammo to manage. You hardly ever use grenades. No reason to bother with stat-boost drugs. Some of the runs (especially the final one) WOULD actually be pretty damn hard IF you had to manage your supplies, ammo and medkits especially. But as it is now, the only things you gotta manage are shaman fetishes and rigger droid repair kits (cuz you cant heal them with magix).

The karma thing, I'll need to test it with my second playthrough to see how different it is to play an asshole, but the way this eurogamer review says it blows it out of proportion. Doing "goody-two-shoes" activities like returning a hobo's blanket from an alleyway 5 steps away from him (literally) happens ONCE EVERY BLUE MOON. Most of the karma you get for doing actual missions and shit that you'd get anyway even if you showed everyone the middle finger. The amount of skill points you'd miss on by ignoring these "good guy" things is negligible.

The game is pretty linear, yeah, which is unfortunate. BUT! it does allow for some side stuff and flexibility. The combat setpieces have many funky things for most classes, which adds a little to the tacticool/replayability layer. Rigger drones can flank shit from air ducts, shamen can summon spirits out of environmental links, mages get boosted by ley lines. Most of the talky-kind of runs supply different ways of tackling problems, one of the undercover missions has actually quite a few options that you have to actively dig for. You've obviously got the skill checks and shit as well. The missions are generally neatly varied and strike a good balance between raiding and going undercover.

Also, where the game definitely excells is portraying the "punk". The world is darkmaturegritty, people use all kinds of slang, it's dog-eat-dog, druggies, hobos, strippers and cyber-augmented doods on every step. Writing generally is also very good, except for the plethora of typoes.

Oh and the musix. Them musix. It's like a mix of Crusader: No Regret, System Shock 2 and Blake Stone. The game is worth playing for the music alone.


There are obviously some more things that I'll be writing about in solid detail, and I still have to go through my second playthrough to see different shit, but my bottom line for this game is this: It's only good while could have been truly great. It's generally rather 'limited' or 'shallow' in most areas, and all of them could have been expanded really easily, but I suspect Harebrained simply had to focus on just putting out a focused and "full" game with the limited funds they had. And that they managed to do. Despite the shortcomings, I had massive fun playing this game, and I was only left with a hunger for MOAR.

 

[Varnaan]

My hero !

Stayed up all night waiting for you to post something like that.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

First off, Roguey is a dirty liar (as if that wasn't obvious). .

Despite the shortcomings, I had massive fun playing this game, and I was only left with a hunger for MOAR.

 

[Metro]

How long is the game?

 

[Varnaan]

Well then, guess it's time to start spilling the beans:


I finished the campaign in 13 hours.

 

[Metro]

Hmm, why am I not seeing that in his post. Ah well, 13 hours doesn't seem that short.

 

[evdk]

Hmm, why am I not seeing that in his post. Ah well, 13 hours doesn't seem that short.

It was in a different post.

 

[LeJosh]

Darth said 13, someone else said 8 I think.

Will probably require more than 1 playthrough and I wonder how difficult "very hard" is.

 

[Volrath]

The last 6 pages of this thread have been a rollercoaster ride.

Thanks Roxor for trolling the fuck out of this thread!

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

There are obviously some more things that I'll be writing about in solid detail, and I still have to go through my second playthrough to see different shit, but my bottom line for this game is this: It's only good while could have been truly great. It's generally rather 'limited' or 'shallow' in most areas, and all of them could have been expanded really easily, but I suspect Harebrained simply had to focus on just putting out a focused and "full" game with the limited funds they had. And that they managed to do. Despite the shortcomings, I had massive fun playing this game, and I was only left with a hunger for MOAR.

Here's hoping there's enough content and flexibility in the editor. NWN1 was a good game simply because of the editor, it had an unplayably terrible campaign. If Shadowrun Returns' campaign is short, linear, and enjoyable AND the editor ends up good I'll be pleased.

Probably gonna end up fucking with the campaign before dicking with the editor though. Will want to have some sense of the gameplay at least.

 

[Morkar Left]

Watching the let's play for 8 mins I have to say I like the mood and writing. I'm looking forward to an enjoyable classical rpg that isn't made in the 90's.

Jeff Vogel's Avadon has better and deeper gameplay

Care to elaborate?

Avadon is 35 hours-long or so, and will have a more detailed story and more gameplay systems.

Shadowrun returns will only be 12 hours long, looks more linear and limited, will have less dialogue, less choices, will lack basic elements like inventory, stealth, and save anywhere. The music is a big disappoinment. And most of all the combat based on the gameplay videos looks very basic isometric turn-based stuff, no different than from a Jeff Vogel game, who is already not very good at combat. The options from the PnP game are for the most part gone.

I want to play it for the atmosphere, but otherwise it's a mobile developer on a limited budget making a game limited in scope. Don't except a revolution. Wasteland 2 has a better, more experienced team, and it will make all the difference.

That Avadon is probably longer I haven't questioned.
Where did you get that Avadon has a more detailed story? And how has Avadon more gameplay systems compared to SR Returns? SR Returns has a lot of skills, more attributes and even nuances like different Etiquettes. Has Avadon similar or more sophisticated systems like these? Combat allows taking cover, you can hack systems etc. And it looks like the skills get a lot more use to resolve obstacles depending on skill which doesn't seem the case in Avadon.
But since I haven't even played Avadon nor SR Return I'm sure you can enlighten me further. And in more detail please. With facts would be nice.

Avadon has long, detailed descriptions and dialogue for everything.

It is all nice and well that Shadowrun implements some skills, but what if the game world doesn't give you any opportunity to really use them in a way that makes a difference? A few cosmetic skill checks here and there, based on what I've seen so far, doesn't really mean much. There is no stealth even at that.

Though, no substance to talk about from your side.
Some thoughts for you: how many skills has Avadon compared to SR:R (combat and non-combat)? What are the meaningful skill-choices in Avadon you are talking about? Examples, please.
Have you watched the let's play from SR:R? I only watched the first 8 min. and there was already plenty of written text, descriptions and dialogue.

 

[DalekFlay]

A good but simple game that is right up my ass as far as things I like (cyberpunk, turn-based combat, moral choice).

So... exactly what I hoped for, basically.

 

[Trash]

Plenty of videos about the editor. Quite some people are already getting to grips with it. Looks complicated for anything other than the simples map making but also looks like it has a huge plethora of options. If the game sells well I do expect to see quite some content and with about twenty years of content worth I do hope some of the better stuff makes it in.

And I lol that people still take Chefe seriously.

 

[Volrath]

HHR is a fucking Vogel fanboi

 

[evdk]

HHR is a fucking troll

Seriously.

 

[Metro]

Lol @ praising Avadon. Story was boring and generic-ass-fuck.

 

[LeJosh]

I like that lootable corpses have already made it in by the same guy who got imported assets to work.

Importing those assets is a clusterfuck though.

 

[Trash]

I'm expecting custom content art packs to appear quite quickly. Really am hoping for some arcology stuff.

 

[m_s0]

A review is up on Polygon:
http://www.polygon.com/game/shadowrun-returns/8036

It's pretty funny that they open with

we'll pretend that Microsoft's 2007 competitive shooter take on the series didn't happen.

considering that at least two, possibly several of the same people, including Mitch Gitelman, worked on that 'Microsoft's 2007 competitive shooter'. Hah. Anyway the consensus seems to be 'good for what it is'

Also this:

The lack of healing options shines a particularly unforgiving light on Shadowrun Returns' save system. During combat sequences — which can often stretch for as long as 15-20 minutes of turn-based life or death — it's game over if your character goes down, which throws you back to the last autosave. There's no manual saving in Shadowrun Returns anywhere in the game, whether you're in combat or back home. More than once I spent twenty or thirty minutes between missions tweaking my character, talking to NPCs gathering information and generally preparing myself for the next step only to realize that I couldn't save. It's a weird "screw you" to the idea of experimentation in almost every area of the game, because experimenting could cost you half an hour or more of time as you try to roll back the changes you made. It's a bizarre, borderline-unacceptable omission in 2013.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Almost amusing.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Also, bonescraper 's mom was pretty meh, I'd give her 5/10 at best.

 

[hoverdog]

HHR has gone from defending failout 3 to praising Avadon. Why isn't he dumbfucked yet?

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Lol @ praising Avadon. Story was boring and generic-ass-fuck.

The only good Vogel games are the original 3 exile and the geneforge series. He shat on avernum with the avadon-esque remake.

HHR has gone from defending failout 3 to praising Avadon. Why isn't he dumbfucked yet?

Not NV? Fallout 3? ... can someone tell me how to use the ignore function?

Also I finally got legal copies of most of his games on the humble indie bundle for $0.01