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sea's (Mostly Technical) Skyrim Initial Impressions

Drakron

Arcane
Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
6,326
Peter said:
I guess I should've said 'p good for a Bethesda game'. Yeah, the puzzles and traps are banal shit boring by normal standards, but for a TES game, they're rather nice.

I say this, I do not want the kind of puzzles that are in Silent Hill 2-3 on RPGs.

As you said, they are rather nice on the sense its not "pull level and its done" as they at least require a bit of attention and thought, like the Claw were even if you are almost given the solution if you read the diary, its not spelled out in your quest log.

That is enough and should be enough, if bullshit minigames have no place in RPGs then neither do puzzles.
 

Peter

Arcane
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Messages
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MetalCraze said:
Excidium said:
Tel Velothi said:
So now Codex loves Skyrim? :retarded:
Where did you get that idea? Even the 3 or 5 people with positive impressions say it's an "ok" game at best.

The previous page is almost all love. The fact is many people do like it. The problem is of course that they keep shitting on Oblivion and also try to compare it to Gothic and DM which are both unreachable for Skyrim in their leagues (Gothic is much more feature rich, not dumbed down and DM has a much better and fluid combat)

To be fair, I don't think anyone really said Skyrim was as good as those games (except for Mastermind), but simply that it's a good thing that Bethesda has tried to take cues from those games. At least that's my belief and the impression I got from other posts.
 

Raapys

Arcane
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
4,994
From several hours of playing I've found the following:

Good things: Passable mage combat( the actual casting of spells and their impact), slightly more interesting dungeons, more interesting game world in general.

Bad things: Pretty much everything else. Ridiculous UI, crappy spell selection and variety, boring/formulaic (enchanted) weapons and armor, uninteresting skill system, tons of removed skills, no attributes, still no goddamned levitation, crappy melee combat, mostly awful dialog, reused music/books, same old Oblivion quest style/dialog and compass, no apparent C&C, uninteresting main story, utterly linear dungeons, same old crappy game engine, and much much more.

I give it MAJESTIC/10, since it's slightly more entertaining than the 10/10 Oblivion.
 
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They will never drop loading cells. They could at least try to make it a little more graceful by loading the new interior cell into the current exterior cell but that will never happen either.
 

likaq

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
Messages
1,198
Excidium said:
Does anybody know what the difficulty settings change?

Only health and damage of your opponents ( most probably ).
Or as in fallout 3:

Very Easy: Enemy Damage 50% Player Damage 200%
Easy: Enemy Damage 75% Player Damage 150%
Normal: Enemy Damage 100% Player Damage 100%
Hard: Enemy Damage 150% Player Damage 75%
Very Hard: Enemy Damage 200% Player Damage 50%

It is very unlikely that skyrim have something better. it is bethshit after all.
 

sgc_meltdown

Arcane
Joined
May 8, 2003
Messages
6,000
You know what the funny thing about the reused books is? Oblivion fans often point to the library of books in their game as proof that Bethesda still cared about lore and creating a richly detailed world. Whoop, a shitbunch of those are from daggerfall and morrowind, and I'd wager most of the interesting ones also come from that set. That's not proof your precious Oblivion is awesome, it's proof that Oblivion co-opted its awesome. Delusional as shit.
 

Peter

Arcane
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Messages
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sgc_meltdown said:
You know what the funny thing about the reused books is? Oblivion fans often point to the library of books in their game as proof that Bethesda still cared about lore and creating a richly detailed world. Whoop, a shitbunch of those are from daggerfall and morrowind

Why do I seem to think all of them were reused from previous games, except for the few that were related to specific quests?

Am I remembering Oblivion even worse than it was?
 

sgc_meltdown

Arcane
Joined
May 8, 2003
Messages
6,000
I just looked. uesp wiki doesn't seem to have lists of books unique to each game, just books IN each game

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Books
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Books

I wager that if you collapse all the seperate volumes in the oblivion section together you'll find it has less than the morrowind one

however do these players maintain their immersion knowing that the imperial capital has less books total than piers anthony ever wrote
 

sgc_meltdown

Arcane
Joined
May 8, 2003
Messages
6,000
If your gameworld fails to make me care about it, instead of turning to your interesting lore books that seem to be talking about a far more interesting place than the one my character is in, I might as well actually read an actual novel or short story collection.
 

Drakron

Arcane
Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
6,326
Excidium said:
Does anybody even read those books?

I did in Daggerfall, Morrowind have some very nice ones (Morrowind was very lovely on Lore) as Oblivion was pretty crappy ... I suppose it had a few but when you played Daggerfall and see the majority of books the ones you already read ... at least Morrowind new books had outlandish names so it would pick your interest to check then out, Oblivion books not so much.
 

Gragt

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Excidium said:
Does anybody even read those books?

I remember hunting for the various episodes of A Dance in Fire in Morrowind. I was so glad when I finally found the 5th part and could then finish reading the whole story.

Edit: The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
 

Mangoose

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Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity
sgc_meltdown said:
If your gameworld fails to make me care about it, instead of turning to your interesting lore books that seem to be talking about a far more interesting place than the one my character is in, I might as well actually read an actual novel or short story collection.
 

sea

inXile Entertainment
Developer
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Messages
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After spending a while with Skyrim I guess I have more coherent thoughts on the gameplay itself:

It's Elder Scrolls. That much is apparent. Turn up the combat to Master and it's still not amazingly challenging on a regular basis, but at least you don't kill every enemy in 2 seconds. Mana and health regen almost entirely ruin the point of bringing all those potions and food around. Spells feel much more simplified and limited in scope, but dual-wielding partially makes up for it... and let's face it, I don't really need Fire Spell 1 and Fire Spell 2, if they basically do the exact same thing but one does more damage. Combat is enjoyable but nothing really new - it gets the job done but this is not really a game about fighting anyway (unlike say, Divinity II) so I am willing to forgive the fact that I can get better combat elsewhere.

As for world design, I like. There are still stupid things that cut into realism and believability, like huge bandit camps out in the middle of nowhere with no obvious supply lines, the game world is a good size but the wilderness doesn't feel as expansive and endless as I'd like (more roads and obvious paths to follow), towns are nice but as with other Elder Scrolls kind of feel sterile - people do jobs and stuff, but I don't really get the sense they're bustling with activity. Needs more crowds, more people, more noise. The art direction and landscaping is tremendous and honestly probably the most impressive I've seen in any game, ever, and the dynamic weather and changing between climates really is extremely well done. Overall it's a huge step up from Fallout 3 and a little better than Oblivion, but there are just too many immersion-breakers that make you go "wait, what?"

Quest design, surprisingly, seems to be a strength of the game - not so much in terms of the quests themselves but in terms of choices and consequences. It feels like New Vegas in the sense that doing quests for NPCs and factions seems to lead to newer and better things, and there are times where NPCs will respond to you differently depending on your play-style. However, due to the lack of reputation pop-ups everywhere, the system feels much more natural to me. There are also random encounters, unmarked locations to find, etc. and generally it feels like there's always somewhere you can go and something to do, something woefully lacking in Oblivion despite its sheer size.

Cooking, smithing, alchemy and so on are all welcome. They don't seem particularly useful unless you're able to get much better equipment later on (more unique crafting-only stuff would help), and it'd be nice if there were schematics and whatnot required for some things, but alchemy at least requires experimentation. As with all crafting systems though, ultimately you're basically just wading through menus, which is never really fun.

Of course I've only played a few hours so I don't want to make too many assumptions, but it seems like Skyrim is somewhere in between Oblivion and Morrowind in terms of quality, leaning towards Morrowind. The simplified character system just plain sucks, the UI is awful, the lack of real persuasion options and whatnot is a bit disappointing (at least so far), and combat is too easy to be tactically or reflexively engaging, but like all other Bethesda games it claws back a lot of favour simply due to how much there is to do, how big and interesting the world is, etc., and in that respect Skyrim is definitely a big improvement. It's a shitty RPG, still, but as far as sandboxes go it is really well done.
 

MetalCraze

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Excidium said:
Does anybody even read those books?

I did this quite a lot in Morrowind. Some were pretty interesting. Not a good fantasy writing but not Gaider-grade either.

sea said:
this is not really a game about fighting anyway

What is this game about then? The majority of quests is about wiping out everything that moves in Area X and you can't do anything else but fighting and an occassional FedEx that also often involves fighting. It's TES.

sea said:
It feels like New Vegas in the sense that doing quests for NPCs and factions seems to lead to newer and better things, and there are times where NPCs will respond to you differently depending on your play-style. However, due to the lack of reputation pop-ups everywhere, the system feels much more natural to me. There are also random encounters, unmarked locations to find, etc. and generally it feels like there's always somewhere you can go and something to do, something woefully lacking in Oblivion despite its sheer size.

All of that shit was in Oblivion too and when it comes to unmarked locations - in much much bigger numbers. Stop being a KKK whore.

It feels like New Vegas in the sense that doing quests for NPCs and factions seems to lead to newer and better things

This bit is especially lulzy - what a fucking newfag you are. You haven't played Oblivion (let alone Morrowind) but you shit on it.
 

sea

inXile Entertainment
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MetalCraze said:
What is this game about then? The majority of quests is about wiping out everything that moves in Area X
Some quests, not all. I don't know how unavoidable combat is but it seems like stealth is a viable option to get around most of it, and all the quest objectives I've had so far have been non-combat related, even if there is combat to be had when you get there. Overall it seems like a good balance, but I mean, obviously if you accept a quest to clear out bandits from somewhere or to assassinate someone or whatever, you have no right to bitch about violence, especially when there are other quests focused on interacting with NPCs.

MetalCraze said:
That shit was in Oblivion too. Stop being a KKK whore.
Except in Skyrim, doing quests for one faction will cancel out another one, or even change your objectives as they are no longer relevant. There are also some neat consequences, like gaining followers if you help people out enough for them to like you. In other words, the quest chains don't feel 100% linear and actually branch out somewhat, with later quests being affected by ones you did previously, even if they aren't directly related to the same events. Even something as simple as following an NPC somewhere rather than meeting up later will result in unique dialogue sequences and whatnot that you won't get otherwise. I don't want to say that it's radically different structurally, and again, New Vegas did similar things, but the quests seem far less static and fixed than in Oblivion and Fallout 3, where there was basically always one outcome to every quest and almost nothing influenced each other. A comparison to Morrowind and its inter-faction conflicts seems apt here.
 

sgc_meltdown

Arcane
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Messages
6,000
so what you're saying bro is that they've made a streamlined morrowind with snow and better combat
 

MetalCraze

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Some quests, not all. I don't know how unavoidable combat is but it seems like stealth is a viable option to get around most of it

There's stealth in TES games? Tell me more

I've had so far have been non-combat related, even if there is combat to be had when you get there. Overall it seems like a good balance, but I mean, obviously if you accept a quest to clear out bandits from somewhere or to assassinate someone or whatever, you have no right to bitch about violence

So you just persuaded undead and bandits in linear tight corridors in dungeons into dying and also used rat diplomacy on a dragon so it died all by himself?

especially when there are other quests focused on interacting with NPCs.

Which are all "bring X to Y" and don't give you any XP. Are you still level 1 then?

Except in Skyrim, doing quests for one faction will cancel out another one, or even change your objectives as they are no longer relevant.

You've played only for a few hours and you talk like you did quests for a lot of factions? Sounds plausible and not like butthurt fanboy excuses

There are also some neat consequences, like gaining followers if you help people out enough for them to like you.

Meaning you do a single possible quest they offer and then you get the option to take one of them with you. And that's all to it.
"Help people out enough" "consequences" :lol:

In other words, the quest chains don't feel 100% linear and actually branch out somewhat, with later quests being affected by ones you did previously, even if they aren't directly related to the same events.

"In other words" you gave only one example that is linear as fuck. Either you do the quest and gain a follower OR YOU DON'T. Choices and consequences, biatch.

Even something as simple as following an NPC somewhere rather than meeting up later will result in unique dialogue sequences and whatnot that you won't get otherwise.

Meaning he will just keep babbling as he goes along a script of what he has to say. This is called monologue, dear newfag.
Also you could listen to NPCs babbling in Oblivion and get quests out of what you've heard.

I don't want to say that it's radically different structurally, and again, New Vegas did similar things, but the quests seem far less static and fixed than in Oblivion and Fallout 3, where there was basically always one outcome to every quest and almost nothing influenced each other. A comparison to Morrowind and its inter-faction conflicts seems apt here.

There were no interfaction conflicts in Morrowind. You could only join one out of three available and that's it. I know you haven't played it but at least try to pretend like you did.

Also there are non-linear quests in Fallout 3. I understand that New Vegas was your first shooter with quests ever but goddamnit.
 

Twinkle

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There were no interfaction conflicts in Morrowind. You could only join one out of three available and that's it. I know you haven't played it but at least try to pretend like you did.

What? Maybe you mean Great Houses but still...
 

MetalCraze

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Urkanistan
He talks about factions not guilds

You could join any guild and joining one didn't do anything to your progression in another apart AFAIR from not being able to become a guild master in every one.

With three houses it was linear too. They had their linear lines of linear quests with a single outcome that inevitably promoted you. Other houses weren't reacting to what you did at all. All they did is not accepting you if you've just joined 1 faction already.

So I don't really know what sea is talking about.

Then again doing a quest for the follower and making that dude your mule is considered "neat consequences" in his world so what do I know.
 

Mastermind

Cognito Elite Material
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
MetalCraze said:
There were no interfaction conflicts in Morrowind. You could only join one out of three available and that's it. I know you haven't played it but at least try to pretend like you did.

Shut the fuck up Skyway. One path of the fighters' guild questline involved slaughtering the entire leadership of the Thieves' Guild. No interfaction conflicts my ass. You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about, like usual. Go back to your 19th KOTOR playthrough and leave TES to people who aren't terminally retarded.
 
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Mastermind said:
MetalCraze said:
There were no interfaction conflicts in Morrowind. You could only join one out of three available and that's it. I know you haven't played it but at least try to pretend like you did.

Shut the fuck up Skyway. One path of the fighters' guild questline involved slaughtering the entire leadership of the Thieves' Guild. No interfaction conflicts my ass. You have no idea what the fuck you're talking about, like usual. Go back to your 19th KOTOR playthrough and leave TES to people who aren't terminally retarded.

Not to mention earlier quests for the FG where you had to perform tasks like stealing a TG code book. If you weren't skilled enough in pickpocket you had to kill someone to get it. The TG did not appreciate that and you'd get your ass thrown out for doing it.


Also, some of the higher up Thieve's Guild quests had a chance of pissing off certain Telvanni. Not sure but I think some Morag Tong ones had conflict too.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
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Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,498
Streamlined morrowind maybe yes, but theres really some character development at least, it seems you really have to specialize at something, like 2h weapons + heavy armor and forge and cant be master of all like in oblivion, but then again i dont know how many feats points you get in the end.
I dont have the crackling sound issues sea encounters but a ctd sometimes happens once every few hours.I am glad id diddnt bother with a scene release, theres probably a few things to get patched .
I dont know why you call it a shitty rpg, you have a few choices and consequences each time on many quests, factions, a few nice random encounters and triggers i wont spoil. Equipment is decent and its worth crafting your gear trust me.
No really its a good game, not just ok, the interface is a problem but ive seen worse, you dont really remember games interface in 85-90, people really overacting about it, that doesnt prevent me to play.
New vegas do things better, a simple example the companions, they have some personalities and souls in vegas, in skyrim you are awarded a brunette who swear total obedience to you, as reward from the jarl fairly early in the game, no reason given for such loyalty no explanation,no background, i am not even sure she told me her name!
 

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