S.T.A.L.K.E.R. 2: Heart of Chornobyl

[Major_Blackhart]

Looking at the actual gameplay mechanics, especially with the low HP levels of JSawyer Mod, it's evident that New Vegas would be a solid shooter if the foundation (engine, AI, etc) wasn't what it was.

Nah, this is where Obsidian's monocle fell short. If they focused on combat, they could have elevated it to a greater degree gamebryo or not. Hell I may even prove it with another mod one day. I did a fair bit of AI work on Deus Ex as you know and the vanilla poopy AI was primarily limited by how much work was originally given to to it. The chosen engine has an influence but the main thing is simply putting in the time (well, and good design sense is of course required), which the devs have been on paper showing regret for not having done so, even though what they did do was already a shitload of work.

Yeah the base FO3 design and engine definitely counts for something, but I know it can be made notably better with more focus/time, and don't think it's inherently doomed as a result of being a FPS/RPG hybrid blend of real time skill and stat-based outcomes, the existence of vats, whatever...but then again I love FPS, RPGs, and FPS/RPGs, so of course I don't.

If you did an AI overhaul for New Vegas that would be insane.

 

[Master]

I love New Vegas. Stalker is great but it's not a love interest for me. The final third of CoP was some of the most disappointing shit ever. I was enjoying CoP rather a lot, it addressed some issues I had with the original, and it was potentially going to be an all-time classic for me. Then the final area, Pipyrat happened. Shoebox-size comparative to the previous areas. Little introduction of new content (e.g enemy types, anomalies and such), and like 4 quests then it's over. Rather a short game. Not a good idea when combined with RPG elements. There has to be a point to all the strategy and character building (weapon/armor modding, loot management, artifact attainment and loudout), as well as satisfactory use of it. Well, it wasn't that short, but it wasn't fulfilling enough for me.

I agree, Pripyat endgame was a major letdown. I did however like how after returning from each mission you'd find a few more members in the camp missing, like a snare slowly tightening around your neck. At the end, you could cut the tension in Pripyat with a knife.

Storyfag! Combat ain't great, no, but there's way more to gameplay than just combat and NV made numerous improvements in that regard too: No level scaling. Not every location is marked on the map. Better, more varied locales/level design. No long-ass boring tutorial. Hardcore mode. Weapon modding was introduced. Survival skill. Challenge perks. You get 1 perk every two levels, like the good ol' days, and resulting in the player not having nearly everything in one playthrough. Differing ammo types. Re-tweaking of SPECIAL. Restoring Traits from classic FO. Flat skill checks in dialogue as opposed to % chance and so on and on.
Hell, even introducing something like Caravan (the card game) was incline, though sadly it was underutilised.

Thanks for mentioning this, it's good that the mechanical improvements of NV are recognized. Looking at the actual gameplay mechanics, especially with the low HP levels of JSawyer Mod, it's evident that New Vegas would be a solid shooter if the foundation (engine, AI, etc) wasn't what it was.

Ash is a serious decline enabler here. STALKER shits all over NV in every relevant area, what is wrong with you? Does monster placement make any sense in NV? Wtf are all those monsters doing around inhabited settlements? Why aren't they exterminated, decades ago? Stalker has less monsters in it, even though it happens in a for 20 years sealed off, uninhabited, iradiated and mutated area. Further NV doesn't have good "level" design. It has no levels, especially no shooter type levels, just haphazardly thrown about RPG areas that might've seemed logical if they we're looked at from a top down perspective. It's possible this was because of Obsidian being more used to top down mindset when designing them, but the areas just dont work for a FP game. Even F3 was better here, simply because there was less places per square mile. PostApocalypse anyone? And the subway system was at least a good general idea and had a game play function instead of like most dungeons in NV a "storytelling" one. Also adding more shit( crafting items, different ammo types, gun mods) to a game with a barely functioning and tolerable interface is hardly good design. And, why were flat numbers instead of percentage chance in dialogue better?

 

[HoboForEternity]

Looking at the actual gameplay mechanics, especially with the low HP levels of JSawyer Mod, it's evident that New Vegas would be a solid shooter if the foundation (engine, AI, etc) wasn't what it was.

Nah, this is where Obsidian's monocle fell short. If they focused on combat, they could have elevated it to a greater degree gamebryo or not. Hell I may even prove it with another mod one day. I did a fair bit of AI work on Deus Ex as you know and the vanilla poopy AI was primarily limited by how much work was originally given to to it. The chosen engine has an influence but the main thing is simply putting in the time (well, and good design sense is of course required), which the devs have been on paper showing regret for not having done so, even though what they did do was already a shitload of work.

Yeah the base FO3 design and engine definitely counts for something, but I know it can be made notably better with more focus/time, and don't think it's inherently doomed as a result of being a FPS/RPG hybrid blend of real time skill and stat-based outcomes, the existence of vats, whatever...but then again I love FPS, RPGs, and FPS/RPGs, so of course I don't.

If you did an AI overhaul for New Vegas that would be insane.

he also needs to completely remap enemy placement and balancing their stats etc, make it more natural/statisticcally static like gothic, borrowing enemy mods to make it more varied, etc.

Like a raider goons should have always shitty gear that made more dangerous by them using drugs and chems, and casino bodyguards have edge in gear and raw skill and tactics, etc, and soldiers too etc.

Of course, new Vegas isnt as bad as oblivion, fallout 3 or 4 in that case (like raiders using a fat man or high tech plasma rifle or power armor in fallout 4), most of the time the placement still make sense and their equipments are in the range of "okay" in term of believability, but it would be cool for someone to notch it up further

 

[Tacgnol]

Clear Sky might have an RNG element. I'm playing it right now, and I installed Sky Reclamation Project. The README file for one of the optional mods bundled with it says:

• The hit probability system has been removed: every well-aimed shot will hit its target without the game tossing a coin to determine whether it will be so.

Did they add this in CS?

Probably a misunderstanding by the mod devs of the actor.ltx settings.

The stalker modding community used to fight wars over what the value did. It took source code analysis to finally kill the argument.

Personally, I always thought the whole thing was dumb. You could easily disprove it by setting the probability value to 0 and still kill enemies with no issues, enemies on the other hand would be unable to hit you at mid-long distance.

 

[Ash]

Ash is a serious decline enabler here. STALKER shits all over NV in every relevant area, what is wrong with you? Does monster placement make any sense in NV? Wtf are all those monsters doing around inhabited settlements? Why aren't they exterminated, decades ago? Stalker has less monsters in it, even though it happens in a for 20 years sealed off, uninhabited, iradiated and mutated area. Further NV doesn't have good "level" design. It has no levels, especially no shooter type levels, just haphazardly thrown about RPG areas that might've seemed logical if they we're looked at from a top down perspective. It's possible this was because of Obsidian being more used to top down mindset when designing them, but the areas just dont work for a FP game. Even F3 was better here, simply because there was less places per square mile. PostApocalypse anyone? And the subway system was at least a good general idea and had a game play function instead of like most dungeons in NV a "storytelling" one. Also adding more shit( crafting items, different ammo types, gun mods) to a game with a barely functioning and tolerable interface is hardly good design. And, why were flat numbers instead of percentage chance in dialogue better?

At least half of this post can be summed up as "It's unrealistic so therefore it's bad".
I did say Stalker is a bit too concerned with realism for my liking, and New Vegas is a happy medium in that regard. Yes I want theme park world design packed full of interesting content rather than stretches of countryside with nothing much of note in it. Slight exaggeration of course, Stalker does have some interesting content and it's world/level design certainly isn't bad (except the last section of CoP), but I much prefer NV's approach.
It's a big thing that's wrong with AAA open world games like MGSV or GTAV, though they take it to the extreme: Make a massive "realistic" world and as a result it is not fun to explore, whereas San Andreas was smaller an more densely packed with interesting content every acre, and doesn't give a shit that it's littered with hidden wacky content like a van that once you get in turns into a mini-game with explosive RC helicopters.

 

[Master]

Yes but San Andreas is a city, not a postapocalyptic wasteland. It makes sense it would have content packed tightly.

 

[Ash]

New Vegas takes place more than 200 years after the great war. Not that I care. A world packed with fun interesting content in every crevice > minor boosted sense of realism you'd get from doing the opposite.

You're free to disagree of course.

 

[Master]

Then why does it look like a generic PA wasteland.

And, why were flat numbers instead of percentage chance in dialogue better?

Are you fucking retarded?

Huh? I thought its accepted that chance is better. NV way is not how conversations work.

 

[Ash]

Not to mention % chance really doesn't gel well with quicksaving and if a game is to feature free/quicksaving to begin with, then systems have to keep it in mind. A lot of players will game the system if given the chance. It's inherent player psychology to win all challenges and not miss any content, even if that means getting a little scummy as a result of not being given any other choice except to willingly walk away after failing the chance check. Not to mention you'd get XP if you passed a speech check in FO3, further incensing scummyness.

 

[Master]

ESh Well you said it yourself, "put enough points to clear the appropriate stat". Is this how discussions work? I wish, but it's not true. There has to be a degree of risk to it in order to feel like it's a person on the other side, not a Bethesda NPC. NV aproach is like it was designed by Skynet or a robot like Data from early TNG episodes or an alien who is trying to understand humans.

 

[Stavrophore]

Static checks are stupid, static checks with percentage based gaussian distribution are the way. So you set a a skillcheck at 80, and then if a bloke has 79 skill he has 95% chance to pass, if he has 75 he has 50% chance, if he has 71% chance he has 5% chance to pass and with 70 its 0. That's how it should work since, you don't need exact number to pass, just something close around it, so you wont be mad when your 79 skill character fail a 80 pass check. This is good especially when user plays ironman mode, and not savescum.

 

[ADL]

Sergey Galyonkin isn't the CEO of GSC, he works at Epic Games (in addition to running Steamspy). He knows about it because it's going to use the Unreal Engine.

RIP mods. I don't know any UE-powered game that supports modding.

Many of the biggest games do. Conan Exiles, Squad, ARK Survival Evolved, Battlefleet Gothic Armada, PUBG is getting support soon.

 

[HoboForEternity]

New Vegas takes place more than 200 years after the great war. Not that I care. A world packed with fun interesting content in every crevice > minor boosted sense of realism you'd get from doing the opposite.

You're free to disagree of course.

again, emphasis on gothic getting the balance right. Gothic 1 is still the apex of open world rpg and videogames ever.

It is, in its core is a videogame world that let you have fun, but never throw the sense of real place and lives happening inside that isolation chamber (magic barrier)

enemy placement that creates a progression barrier that feels like a real ecosystem interacting with the specific places.

If gothic is the perfect equilibrium, mew vegas leans closer to the theme park, but not too far off from the balance, and stalker leans more into the realism, but still not tpo far off.

Far into the ends of the spectrum is new bethesda ubisoft games type where the whole map is a stage for the players power fantasy, ignoring consistency amd sense, while the other end is probably some kind of ecosystem simulation or whatever that scientists use to collect data in the future where such thing will be possible.

The key is, like in most games or media really, is maintaining the illusion of realism while being a fun game in its core design.

 

[sullynathan]

San Andreas was smaller

It's not smaller than MGSV

 

[Jarmaro]

I wonder if it will have any women NPCs or none as previous games.

 

[Wunderbar]

https://dtf.ru/games/20333-sergey-galenkin-podelilsya-podrobnostyami-o-s-t-a-l-k-e-r-2
Grigorovich announced the game without telling anyone on the team;
Team mostly consists of newcomers, only a few people worked on previous STALKER games;
Development is still at the stage of writing design document.

 

[Vexxt]

Oh for fucks sake - so they are still hashing out the story and deciding on gameplay systems at this stage? If that's the case, then 3 years seems REALLY ambitious for a game like STALKER 2.

On the one hand I'm excited that there is interest in the brand again, but on the other if they don't even have any assets or even a barebones proof of concept then this seems more like 5 years off rather than 3.

 

[sexbad?]

This sounds par for the course. Call of Pripyat seemed to be GSC's last breath as a competent game developer.

From another STALKER thread: I remember the last time they announced a 2, they showed one render of a guy at a campfire and promised a fuckton of DRM and an XBox 360 version.

 

[Baron Dupek]

promised a fuckton of DRM

that would not surprised me, they [easterneuropean] love StarForce DRM which was the most obnoxious DRM back then, stops me from installing some old games like Boiling Point and else...

 

[Stavrophore]

People who have problem with DRM = pirates or retardos who have internet connection like a fucking colander.

 

[TedNugent]

Yas

 

[ADL]

People who have problem with DRM = pirates or retardos who have internet connection like a fucking colander.

Why would pirates bitch about DRM? They only deal with it for a week. Often less. Sometimes slightly more. It's the customers that get stuck with it.

 

[Micormic]

promised a fuckton of DRM

that would not surprised me, they [easterneuropean] love StarForce DRM which was the most obnoxious DRM back then, stops me from installing some old games like Boiling Point and else...

Isn't that on Hammer and Sickle aswell? I remember trying to install it and it fucked my version of windows a couple years ago.

 

[Micormic]

People who have problem with DRM = pirates or retardos who have internet connection like a fucking colander.

A- Delarge already quoted you but I feel like I need to do it again to highlight how insanely idiotic this post it.



People who steal content to bypass all DRM's complain about them?

 

[Invictus]

They should just stick to the example of CD Project; make a great fucking game and dont fuck with your end costumer
Oh and screw consoles this is a PC game through and through so no compromises or dumbing down