Vapourware RPGs that can legitimately be called masterpieces

[Strange Fellow]

Don't answer, it's a trap!

 

[fantadomat]

Where do I fall?

You have the knowledge but lack some of the form. You, Fairfax and various other knowlegeable posters sound a lil' too modern. I prefer the posting form of Grimwulf, CMB, ERYFKRAD and Rogueknight. And of course, my own.

What about me

Do you think that disco communism is a RPG or not?

 

[fantadomat]

it's a trap

Lilura or the post?

 

[JarlFrank]

Anyone here think HoMM3 is a masterpiece?

Yes, we do have plenty of Polish and Russian posters here.

 

[Lilura]

Yes, we do have plenty of Polish and Russian posters here.

It's just that I'm trying to find meaning in my current playthrough. Wealth accumulation and power progression seem all-2-EZ.

 

[JarlFrank]

Overall, I think Age of Wonders is a more challenging and meaningful game of HoMM's particular subgenre. HoMM3 isn't exactly the peak of strategy, it's just very accessible, has a fun gameplay loop and for some reason got really, really popular with Eastern Europeans of any flavor. Even the women. Every man and woman who grew up in the 00s in Eastern Europe and had a PC played HoMM3. No exceptions.

Some of the campaigns are pretty challenging but that's mostly due to your starting position being weaker than the AI's, and the AI cheating. Blade of Armageddon has some particularly difficult missions.

Overall its wide popularity is mostly due to its accessibility and enjoyable gameplay loop of upgrade city - build units - collect treasure - fuck up enemy. You're not gonna find JA2 levels of strategy and tactics here.

 

[Grimwulf]

Lilura, have you played Eador: Genesis, though? With New Horizons mod, obviously. I find it hard to come back to HoMM games these days, when E:G exists.

 

[biggestboss]

 

[octavius]

Anyone here think HoMM3 is a masterpiece?

Some of the user made maps are masterpieces.

 

[octavius]

Overall, I think Age of Wonders is a more challenging and meaningful game of HoMM's particular subgenre.

AoW has better game mechanics, but it has the disadvantage of being slower to play (especially large battles in AoW1) and it has a weaker AI then HoMM 3. AoW2 didn't even have boat AI.
In the AoW games the AI is to timid that it will never conquer the map, while in the HoMM games the AI will conquer you if given the chance. So I'd say the HoMM games are more challenging even if being simpler.

And games like HoMM 3 can appeal to both casuals and more hardcore gamers.

 

[Lilura]

Thanks, Jarl. I may uninstall the casual faggotry. It's just 2-EZ when spell ranges are basically equivalent to AD&D 2nd Edition (Slow, Haste, Prayer and the mobility-based spells).

Lilura, have you played Eador: Genesis, though? With New Horizons mod, obviously. I find it hard to come back to HoMM games these days, when E:G exists.

I'll check it out. Do you think I could handle Dwarf Fortress?

 

[Tweed]

Can we set up a separate thread where Lilura tells us all our RPG power level?

 

[Grimwulf]

I'll check it out. Do you think I could handle Dwarf Fortress?

You did this:

Spoiler

Of course you can handle DF. It's only a myth the game is difficult or hard to understand - it's only clunky in terms of UI. On the plus side, once you get used to it - you can play the game extremely fast, because you don't need a mouse.

I know you hate googling answers, but in case you decide to jump into DF - spare yourself the nerves and use the quickstart guide. This way you'll get a grip of UI in no time and can start enjoying the game.

Also, a major update is coming any week now. The game is updated once every few years, so you might wanna wait for that.

 

[Catacombs]

I'll check it out. Do you think I could handle Dwarf Fortress?

You did this:

Spoiler

Of course you can handle DF. It's only a myth the game is difficult or hard to understand - it's only clunky in terms of UI. On the plus side, once you get used to it - you can play the game extremely fast, because you don't need a mouse.

I know you hate googling answers, but in case you decide to jump into DF - spare yourself the nerves and use the quickstart guide. This way you'll get a grip of UI in no time and can start enjoying the game.

Also, a major update is coming any week now. The game is updated once every few years, so you might wanna wait for that.

Lazy Newb Pack also helps.

 

[Lilura]

Of course you can handle DF. It's only a myth the game is difficult or hard to understand - it's only clunky in terms of UI. On the plus side, once you get used to it - you can play the game extremely fast, because you don't need a mouse.

How many hours did you put into it before you could write confidently about it?

Note sure if my Dwarf-lore is up to scratch either.

 

[Grimwulf]

Lazy Newb Pack also helps.

I would recommend Meph's pack intead. Comes with the game and every plugin you might ever need.

How many hours did you put into it before you could write confidently about it?

Hrmpf. Hard to say. I've been playing DF on and off for god knows how many years. But not nearly as much as Dominions, that's for sure.

Spoiler

The only good thing about Steam is its ability to record play time. Sadly, DF is not on Steam (yet). If I had to take a wild guess, something between 200-300 hours in total over the course of my life, but it takes no more than a few hours to learn the ropes, and maybe 20-30 hours to master the game. As in, build an impenetrable fortress immune to both external and internal threats. Again, DF isn't a hard game, until you start fucking around and having FUN!

Since DF was mentioned, I will leave this dorf from my current playthrough:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Tell me she doesn't vaguely remind you of a certain someone.

 

[Lilura]

Hrmpf. Hard to say. I've been playing DF on and off for god knows how many years. But not nearly as much as Dominions, that's for sure.

Spoiler

Fucking hell lol. Yeah, see, that's the thing. I can only write confidently about IE because I've played its campaigns on and off since their inception.

If I had to take a wild guess, something between 200-300 hours in total on the course of my life, but it takes no more than a few hours to learn the ropes, and maybe 20-30 hours to master the game. As in, build an impenetrable fortress immune to both external and internal threats. Again, DF isn't a hard game, until you start fucking around and having FUN!

That's heartening/encouraging. 200-300 hours isn't all that long. It only amounts to a few months of solid play each day.

Still, big undertaking. Especially if blogging at the same time. Could be very rewarding and fun, though. I downloaded it a couple weeks ago, but I should wait for update, hey?

 

[JarlFrank]

Dwarf Fortress' main obstacle is its interface and the ASCII visuals, but there are plenty of user-made tilesets to choose from and the basic controls can be learned by following a noob guide and failing one or two fortresses.

Just hop in, follow a guide, lose your first fortress to some random thing (my first fortress failed because I hadn't built a brewery and the river froze in winter, so my dwarves had nothing to drink and died of dehydration). Then play another game and lose that fortress to another random thing. Repeat until you've got the basics down and manage to build a fortress that actually manages to survive a crisis or two.

Once you know how to play DF, it isn't hard at all. You'll likely manage to keep your fortress going for years if you play conservatively and don't take any huge risks.

EDIT:
If you want a rough estimate of hours, I think about 10 hours or so were enough for me to grasp the basic concepts and controls of the game. That was the point at which my fortresses no longer died due to self-induced lack of resources.

 

[Lilura]

Dwarf Fortress' main obstacle is its interface and the ASCII visuals, but there are plenty of user-made tilesets to choose from

Any good free ones you could recommend? I do find ASCII somewhat off-putting/harsh on the eyes (though the screencaps posted by Grimwulf seem to employ softer palette).

 

[janior]

If you did, you wouldn't have such bad taste.

There are anyone here who isn't in your ignored list?

Just kidding. Anyway, M&B has good combat. Fallout too. Except 3 and 76.

They don't have good combat. M&B has the same combat as Skyrim and Oblivion. Games with good combat are Dark Souls, Devil May Cry, God of War. Still M&B does other things well, the battles are immersive, conquering all the other cities and making your army greater, visiting towns and talking to NPCs, etc. It's a great game, has good gameplay, the things I mentioned are part of gameplay, combat is too, but is not that great to be considered a masterpiece.

 

[Daze]

If she's basically god then why doesn't she code already?
I want to get something worthwhile out of this.

 

[Grimwulf]

I downloaded it a couple weeks ago, but I should wait for update, hey?

Come to think of it, nothing stops you from trying. You will lose your first fortresses as JarlFrank said, and that's cool. We all did. New update will only bring more content (the so-called villains) and some fluff, it's not like the game is broken in its current state. Many players of DF community are waiting for the update because they don't want to start a new long playthrough without it. Nothing wrong with losing a few quick forts before the update is released.

Any good free ones you could recommend?

Everything DF-related is free. I'll just plug Meph again, you can choose the color palette yourself, it's pretty easy.

Spoiler

 

[Lilura]

Wait. Not sure if I have the right one. Is this it?

(No Meph yet.)

 

[JarlFrank]

Wait. Not sure if I have the right one. Is this it?

(No Meph yet.)

That looks like the ASCII vanilla version, no tileset.

 

[Grimwulf]

Wait. Not sure if I have the right one. Is this it?

Yes, v.0.44.12 is the latest one. But you downloaded the game separately. Major tilesets like LazyNewb and Meph come in full package, with the game included. You don't need to make it harder for yourself - just download the package and run the launcher. It will do everything else for you.