RPGs that are unanimously praised by people of refined taste that you never could finish.

[sea]

You are mad because porn vids being treated as serious trade goods. It offends your Tender Puritan Sensibilities. I can see that.

What the fuck?

I have no issue with porn. My issue is that Fallout 2 has porn studios in a world where nobody has a way to play back video, or reproduce videos in any significant quantity. The most it has are holodisks/tapes, and up until Fallout 3 those were all text-only.

People go to Las Vegas to fuck whores and gamble their money away. How they get there is irrelevant and is certainly not why the town exists.

A tourist trap can't survive if nobody can get there. Sex, gambling and drugs make sense in local contexts. Problem is New Reno produces nothing but Jet and whores in a world where basic subsistence is still a daily concern. No food = no druggies and prostitutes.

The sex industry thrives in poor regions. How many fat Americans travel to shitty neighborhoods in Bangkok to fuck poor, homeless prostitutes? How much of sex slavery comes from the U.S. or Western Europe? Not much. How much of it comes from the blown out towns of the Balkans, the rural countryside of South Asia, the ghettos of east Asia and Africa and the favelas of South America? Almost all of it.

There is a difference between an organized society with economic disparity and a large underclass, and a largely disorganized society where the vast majority of people can't even sleep without fear of being murdered and having their stuff stolen by a junkie or raider. Someone has to do the farming, build and maintain the houses, etc. Vice is fine because it lets people unwind - but New Reno goes too far because we never see anything beyond its drugs and hookers theme.

 

[laclongquan]

There's computers everywhere. I only count towns with mechanics, since I assume the intelligent tech guys will find a way to make them work. That's why I count less than ten towns which can buy porn vids at reasonable number.

And what did I say about New Reno being the hub of transport for north south routes? They have weekly cravans going through to every direction.

New Reno is a considerable safe region. They have the mob gangs belong to Families patrol, they have weekly caravan guards going through, Broken Hill patrol groups on the east. The only surviving raider group is state-sponsored and actually paramilitary, with local support. No cannibals, no slavers, no tribal raiders. Only threats is the occasionally ferocious wildlifes.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

New Reno is about as serious and believable in a post apoc setting as the Discworld's tourist in a fantasy setting.

 

[RK47]

come on guys, drop it already. new reno existence is already bad enough, and defending that porn studios takes the derp even further. They really went all out into stuffing the content in but unfortunately packing everything inside Fallout 2 world means some bad ideas made in with the good ideas. They took it too far with the 'Gang City' and Casinos.

 

[sser]

A tourist trap can't survive if nobody can get there. Sex, gambling and drugs make sense in local contexts. Problem is New Reno produces nothing but Jet and whores in a world where basic subsistence is still a daily concern. No food = no druggies and prostitutes.

What? A town need not produce anything of value to be of value. And I always took the world of Fallout 2 to be a recovering one. That means, at that time, sustenance is returning. Hence the farmlands, crops, brahmin, etc. That there are actual towns to begin with clearly demonstrates this fact. There are children afoot, military patrols being organized, and infrastructure being rebuilt.

There is a difference between an organized society with economic disparity and a large underclass, and a largely disorganized society where the vast majority of people can't even sleep without fear of being murdered and having their stuff stolen by a junkie or raider. Someone has to do the farming, build and maintain the houses, etc. Vice is fine because it lets people unwind - but New Reno goes too far because we never see anything beyond its drugs and hookers theme.

There are social stratas in Fallout 2. Have you played the game? There are people with wealth and people with power, and there are those who have neither, and that is apparent very, very quickly. What, you think some bodunk farmer is gonna orchestrate a whorehouse out in the sticks to fulfill some vice? No, of course not. A bunch of boss-men with guns are going to take over the blown out buildings of some city and turn it into a gambling den and get the wasteland to come to them. It's fucking genius! And it's also why it's a very common post-apocalyptic trope because it perfect sense if you know anything about human nature. The fact you are bewildered by guys organizing boxing matches and gambling in a post-apocalyptic world shows me you are seriously fucked if armageddon comes.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

you are seriously fucked if armageddon comes.

Aren't we all ? Cleve excepted, of course.

 

[sser]

Prosper would probably do well.

 

[Yoshiyyahu]

come on, i get that fallout 2 is a little bit less believable than fallout 1, and if that annoys you then fine. but theres still alot of wack shit going on in fallout 1 too, like the whole ghoul thing. people exposed to radiation turning into zombies that live for hundreds of years? is the same thing going to happen in fukushima?

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Just like some people might like an anime or JRPG Fallout

Are they the same people who enjoy South Park, Robin Hood, Batman, Monthy Pyton, aforementioned Dr Who and Hitchhiker's and quite a few others in F1? Damn F2 and its silliness, it doesn't allow me to seriously ask for sandwich in the more moody and serious encounters like F1 did.

As for the other locations

Oh yeah, F1 to the rescue, because Shady Sands has one quest which is... wait, is that possible... a dungeon with trash mobs?

I could have bought it if it had been clear that technology, economic infrastructure and living standards had improved significantly since the first game. They have a bit, granted

F2's setting is clearly based on an assumption that the shape of wasteland improved a shitton. Denying that is nothing more than shifting reality to fit your arguments. Just like the above pretending that F1 didn't have boring filler locations, trash mob dungeons and silly pop culture references.

And New Reno was mostly build on drugs and weapons trading. Is that so hard to believe considering the proximity of SAD and the tons of ingame lore you get on how big of a success the jet was? They could trade for everything else, the thing about F2 is that it shows that economy returned, there are towns providing food or power or raw materials or live stock etc and they do come into contact all the time so it's not a rocket science that traveling returned and providing gambling and hookers for visitors might be a good idea.

Btw most towns in F1 don't have toilets, I find that pretty hard to believe, please help me bros.

 

[Infinitron]

lol at all the butthurt FO2 fanboys making shitty rationalizations

 

[Yoshiyyahu]

shitty, get it?

 

[almondblight]

Are they the same people who enjoy South Park, Robin Hood, Batman, Monthy Pyton, aforementioned Dr Who and Hitchhiker's and quite a few others in F1? Damn F2 and its silliness, it doesn't allow me to seriously ask for sandwich in the more moody and serious encounters like F1 did.

I guess you're right, people that quote Monty Python and South Park all the time are very monocle, not like those idiots that enjoy anime.

Btw most towns in F1 don't have toilets, I find that pretty hard to believe, please help me bros.

Well, you FO2 gave you a shit bomb, so you should feel happy.

 

[Roguey]

Someone show me all the places where Fallout keeps reminding you you're playing a game.

(I like how all these lines are from Avellone)
That last line doesn't even make sense in context (unlike say, "Prime Choice Select is made of people!" from the first one). Also pretend I remembered to take a shot where your ignorant tribal character asks Renesco if he knows the lyrics to that one part in Rocket Man by Elton John.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Are they the same people who enjoy South Park, Robin Hood, Batman, Monthy Pyton, aforementioned Dr Who and Hitchhiker's and quite a few others in F1? Damn F2 and its silliness, it doesn't allow me to seriously ask for sandwich in the more moody and serious encounters like F1 did.

I guess you're right, people that quote Monty Python and South Park all the time are very monocle, not like those idiots that enjoy anime.

Btw most towns in F1 don't have toilets, I find that pretty hard to believe, please help me bros.

Well, you FO2 gave you a shit bomb, so you should feel happy.

Powerful arguments bro, you convinced me.

 

[laclongquan]

The short Master's War of Fallout 1 brought unexpected benefits to Fallout 2.

Remnant of Mutant Army block the expansion of NCR to west of Shady Sands. and force them to move north-northwest, to New Reno, Broken Hills, and Vault City, opening up several cattle routes.

The ingathering of mutants and humans in Broken Hills ensure the Wasteland got access to radioactive ores, needful for both Gekko's plant and the small plant in BH. In short, thank to them Fallout 2 got energy, which lead to the unexpected expansion of both VC and New Reno. They would have expanded nonetheless but it make the process quicker.

 

[almondblight]

You can't include groups based on real life religions*.

Didn't Darklands have Christianity? Eternal Darkness did too.

Anyway, the game doesn't have to go "lol, Christianity!" to be good. They can show cults, dangerous religious figures, power grabs that cross both political and religious lines, etc.

You can't include groups based on controversial real life political ideologies, like communism.

You can't? Planescape had communists. Also, I don't really need the game to be Animal Farm redux. It can show authoritarianism without going "hey, this guy is like Lenin, this one like Stalin..." etc. In fact, it should.

You can't include racist groups.

That mutant/human place was decent at showing racism. Also, Vault City.

You can't include tasteful rape groups that treat women inappropriately.

Remember the Khans in Fallout 1? If they ask to join they want to test to make sure you're evil enough, and tell you to kill some of their sex slaves.

Excluding direct references to Christianity (which they could include but might not want to), all the other stuff is kosher. And there's a ton of other things you can do as well. For instance, let's say Fallout 2 is somewhat more developed than Fallout 1. What will those quasi-feudal states look like? What kind of intrigue would their be? Imagine city-states that control smaller farmlands, mining towns and settlements, vying for power against other city-states. They hire raiders to attack areas, or work on plagues to poison them. They work with some member of the ruling party in opposing states to assassinate more troublesome leaders. They have puppet governments in control of smaller powers. All while mysterious cults from the wasteland start to spread amongst the lower classes, secret society's like the Brotherhood have a hand in the struggles to try to work towards their own ends, certain groups are trying to continue dangerous experiments from before the war, distant powerful states are waiting for the opportunity to gain a foothold in the region, etc. There's a ton of interesting things you can do in a post-apocalyptic setting, which is why it was so disappointing Fallout 2 went for the lulz approach.

 

[PorkaMorka]

stuff

Ok, good point re: the Khans in Fallout 1.

Regarding the other groups, I think that you significantly underestimate the potential difficulties of including them in a high budget game as fully fleshed out factions that the player can choose to side with or slaughter. The potential for butthurt is extremely high.

I like your game ideas and a serious post apocalyptic game with an unflinching take on reality based factions is one of my dream ideas for a game, but it would offend a hell of a lot of people.

Without offending people or going for the lulz, I do think that they are relatively limited in terms of interesting things to put in a post apoc. game, compared to fantasy or sci fi.

 

[Lunac]

What a bizarre fetish, this Fallout worship. I do sense a tinge of libertarian infused nutso survivalist thread going through... well this thread, at least in some of the posts of the people defending that shit game series. So, that's what it is. Some juvenile survivalist delusion personified in a game. (The rest of the defenders seem to be just a random combination of dumbfuck pollack kids and teenage contrarians with a few nostalgiafags thrown into the mix)


As for the core group, tell the doctor more, so I can develop a treatment for what ails you, my degenerate Randians.



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[visions]

Fallout was never that serious nor realistic with its big green supermutants, radscorpions, deathclaws and two headed cows as the norm (yes I know, there have been cases of animals with two or more heads in nature. These cases result from the failed separation of monozygotic twins or triplets or whatever. Somehow I doubt extensive radiation posisoning would make cows with this condition the vast majority).

To complain about New Reno not making sense economically in a supposedly real-world based setting which would supposedly be governed by the laws of nature as we know them (Q: although radiation can result in gigantism, would bigger size and therefore the need for more nourishment be an advantageous mutation for scorpions in a barren wasteland? Doesn't seem so. If so, why are they so prevalent?) yet still feature the abovementioned critters seems a bit silly, as in, why would things not making sense economically in Fallout 2 be such a big issue against the game's "seriousness", if when judged against the laws of nature, neither Fallout made much sense in the first place?

 

[Infinitron]

It's not about seriousness, it's about consistency of setting. Or a consistent level of (un)seriousness, if you will.

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

Verisimilitude, here we come !

 

[Infinitron]

Verisimilitude, here we come !

Yeah, that's the ticketM:

 

[laclongquan]

Look at the time, chaps. Fallout 2 was done in 1999. At that time was there any game done your way? No?

 

[Lunac]

Look at the time, chaps. Fallout 2 was done in 1999. At that time was there any game done your way? No?

1999? Just a few off the top of my head:

STBoF (Star Trek Birth of Federation), buggy as hell, but extremely replayable turn based strategy game. Probably unheard here since most here seem to be starwarsfags.

Age of Empires II (even though I prefer the simpler no1 in the series, the no2 did have some nice additions), probably not a favorite here since most here seem to be war/starcraftfags.

Asheron's Call MMO (first truly massive 3D no-hand holding MMO, lacking in orcs, elfs, and other Tolkienesque bullshit), probably unheard here since most here seem to be ultimafags+tolkienfags.

Freespace 2 (aka the pinnacle of a now dead genre), probably unheard of here until it was listed on GoG for the Codexian teen masses to consume. (In fact I can point out several Codexians saying as much.)

Now, bring it on beeyotches!



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[laclongquan]

Craps! All!