Review RPG Codex Review: Darth Roxor on Disappointment, thy name is Pillars of Eternity

[Seari]

Hence PoE is a better game.

 

[jewboy]

I should have clarified Neverwinter Nights 2, not the original. When Sawyer took over the design of NWN2, there was deliberate intention to place more focus in the single player campaign, compared to its predecessor. The addition of companions and full party control was a step closer to the Baldur's Gate model. Many disappointed fans complained that it played more like Baldur's Gate than NWN, and cited an underwhelming multiplayer support and lack of persistent worlds.

A 'step closer' to the Baldurs Gate model? Did Bioware actually market NWN2 as a 'spiritual successor', because, and I hesitate to even mention this, it seems to me that it is arguably a spiritual successor to...well...Neverwinter Nights 1. Hence the new name: Neverwinter Nights 2, rather than say Baldurs Gate 3 which would have seemed a much more appropriate name for any such project as you are describing. Did Baldurs Gate have player created dungeons? I can't seem to remember. I'm getting a bit old. So perhaps you could remind me.

 

[Dorateen]

Bioware did not make NWN2

 

[Jasede]

PoE vs NWN 2? Well, the combat is about similarly bad in both but NWN 2 has the good old D&D spell barrage, which means potent, powerful spells, and lots of them. (I consider that a plus.)

Actually, even that I've trouble writing. NWN combat is still kind of built on the (relatively solid) NWN 1 engine, but it kind of fucks up the details due to its clumsy interface, making spellcasting a bit of a chore (to me).

However, NWN 2 is extremely long and boring. It does come with MotB, though, which is kind of a masterpiece. NWN 2 OC, though, while it has its moments, is a slog. I think it took me 100 (!) hours to beat and I was using an optimized powerbuild. (Jaesun's divine favor cleric/bard, to be exact)

It's - actually really hard for me to say which game is better. It shouldn't be hard at all, which indicates that PoE is just not that great as we had hoped.

 

[jewboy]

PoE pretty clearly beats PS:T on build variety and character creation options.

But Dragon Age easily beasts PoE in that regard. I really loved being able to create a hot girl in character creation. It was the most advanced character creation I'd ever seen. I could actually create a beautiful female face from scratch. Clearly superior to PoE in that respect and PS:T as well.

 

[Bubbles]

I really loved being able to create a hot girl in character creation. It was the most advanced character creation I'd ever seen. I could actually create a beautiful female face from scratch. Clearly superior to PoE in that respect and PS:T as well.

PoE's character models were deliberately designed with an abstract, minimalistic quality so you can mentally project your idea of beauty upon them.

 

[Volrath]

Hence PoE is a better game.

No, you mean a better RPG.

 

[jewboy]

Bioware did not make NWN2

Sigh. Okay Dorateen. Fair enough. Did Obsidian actually market the game as a spiritual successor to the Baldur's Gate series? Did they actually at any time invite such a comparison or is it just your opinion that that is what it was?

 

[Grinning Reaper]

Comparing it to the games it set out to imitate: BG1, IWD, and PS:T, seems like a more obvious comparison to me. Comparing it to trash like DA and then saying that people making the comparison proves that it's equally as shit is circular reasoning. In other words, you could be right (you're not ), but your argument is shit. If you still don't get it, google is your friend.

Since it seems that you may be specifically referring to me show me where *I* actually make that circular argument. I think you are the one who needs Google. I never made any such argument. All I have done is pointed out the obvious comparison just because it's so fucking obvious and a lot more fair to PoE. It doesn't look like such a bad game when compared to Dragon Age does it? I mean ffs comparing it to games like Planescape: Torment, which by your argument this game *should* be compared to is just absurd. And comparisons to BG1 and IWD1 are not much better.

No, I wasn't saying that you specifically made that circular argument, didn't mean to make suggest that. I was primarily referring to this:

I love how the bar for this game is steadily dropping... First it was expected to be the next BG2 and rated 10/10 on release, then everyone was arguing about it's merits relative to BG1 with most people seeming to think it was mostly a bad imitation, and now the point of comparison has dropped to DAO, which it is apparently a worse version of... Never has the decline been so quick.

But, you did say this:

I realize that this is totally off topic (haha like that matters here) but with all of these favorable DA:O to PoE comparisons maybe another look at that game would be in order. I could never get past the the area or city right after slogging through the initial wilderness area with all those boring identical monsters. I can't remember if it was the annoyance of all the incessant trash mobs before it and then again after it or the annoying constant cooldowns or some other annoyance that I no longer remember. Are there now any mods or cheats that reduce or eliminate the trash mobs and cooldowns or whatever other annoyances made me ragequit and rageuninstall that mess of a game? I always heard that some of the fights against dragons etc were kind of fun but never got that far due to the unendurable boredom of the initial combat.

...and then continued pushing the DA:O to PoE comparison incessantly. They feel the same to you and you don't like either one very much, I get it. PoE feels nothing like the IE games to you of course, because you like those games. The comparison to the games that it set out to imitate is anything but absurd, but you're welcome to continue thinking that it is.

 

[Irenaeus]

ITT, idiots who hate PoE forcefully drawing comparisons between PoE and DA:O in order to insult PoE, and then using the fact that everyone is supposedly comparing them to say how much PoE sucks. Talk about circular reasoning.

Obsyhaters never change.

 

[Irenaeus]

I love how the bar for this game is steadily dropping... First it was expected to be the next BG2 and rated 10/10 on release, then everyone was arguing about it's merits relative to BG1 with most people seeming to think it was mostly a bad imitation, and now the point of comparison has dropped to DAO, which it is apparently a worse version of... Never has the decline been so quick.

It continues to be rated 10/10 after 100 hours in.

 

[DeepOcean]

Guise... PoE is like the son of a classic music master and DA:O was a gangsta hip hop singer, both did drugs together and were good friends in the college. PoE really wanted to be a gangsta hip hop singer and dreamed of millions of fans but his father would never allow that and he depended on his money so he did classic music but as vengence he tried to introduce as much gangsta hip hop on his music as possible.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

Some of the tryhards and fanboys are delusional.Only thing Pillars have over Origins is the graphics and art presentation,and even that manage to piss me off when I can't see shit in battle,behind trees and where is the guy I selected.

 

[Dorateen]

Bioware did not make NWN2

Sigh. Okay Dorateen. Fair enough. Did Obsidian actually market the game as a spiritual successor to the Baldur's Gate series? Did they actually at any time invite such a comparison or is it just your opinion that that is what it was?

No they did not, which is kind of the point I was drawing. The undeniable fact remains, that in design direction and how it plays, NWN2 was more like BG than bioware's NWN. Which a lot of folks were upset about. It speaks to the idea of a community of players not having their expectations realized, or perhaps bait and switch if one wants to ascribe more nefarious motives.

Either way, I've always viewed the development of PoE as Obsidian's attempt at a BG-like game, Take Two.

 

[Seari]

Pillows is a pretty good single-player MMORPG, but not as good as DA:I. Maybe in the sequel they can surpass it.

 

[Irenaeus]

Some of the tryhards and fanboys are delusional.Only thing Pillars have over Origins is the graphics and art presentation,and even that manage to piss me off when I can't see shit in battle,behind trees and where is the guy I selected.

You are delusional. PoE has better writing, story, plot, setting, graphics, music, combat, character creator, system mechanics and FUN.

Like I said, Obsyhaters gonna hate, this review is trollastastic moronic and I'm waiting for a real review here.

 

[jewboy]

Of course I pushed the DA:O comparison because it is the most obvious one. You actually believe that the post I made about DA:O mod suggestions was some kind of tactic just to try to make it seem like lots of people were making favorable comparisons? Please. Several people had made favorable comparisons in a short time. It didn't seem implausible that I had judged DA:O combat a bit too harshly and that a replay might be in order if mods had reduced the trash mobs. Especially since the graphics are probably quite a bit better than PoE.

Yes you want to argue that comparisons to games made like 14 years ago are more relevant than the last time someone tried to make such a spiritual successor? Fine. Make the argument. But it doesn't in any way show that such comparisons are any more apt or proper than the most fucking obvious similar game: DA:O.

 

[Irenaeus]

Of course I pushed the DA:O comparison because I'm a retard.

Fixed

 

[DeepOcean]

Only thing Pillars have over Origins is the graphics and art presentation,and even that manage to piss me off when I can't see shit in battle,behind trees and where is the guy I selected.

Man, Dragon Age has cooldowns and four people party, PoE has full party and vancian... It doesn't stop it being dull as fuck but its something.

 

[Irenaeus]

Only thing Pillars have over Origins is the graphics and art presentation,and even that manage to piss me off when I can't see shit in battle,behind trees and where is the guy I selected.

Man, Dragon Age has cooldowns and four people party, PoE has full party and vancian... It doesn't stop it being dull as fuck but its something.

I also doesn't stop BlackAdderBG from being stupid as as fuck but its something.

 

[Seari]

Especially since the graphics are probably quite a bit better than PoE.

 

[BlackAdderBG]

Only thing Pillars have over Origins is the graphics and art presentation,and even that manage to piss me off when I can't see shit in battle,behind trees and where is the guy I selected.

Man, Dragon Age has cooldowns and four people party, PoE has full party and vancian... It doesn't stop it being dull as fuck but its something.

I can give you that bigger party is better,but when there is two roles,tank and dps, that kind of makes it less of a plus.On cooldaowns,eh it's RTwP who gives a fuck at least you can script the abilities in Origins and let the battle play out with less tedium.

edit:also you can see what Sensuki have in mind when talking about tactical combat.In Origins you can script you battles how to play out ,but there is a lot of enemies where you have to react to them messing your go-to battle plan(stuns,freezes,pulling most distant char,etc.)

 

[jewboy]

I'm just not seeing any similarities with NWN2 and the Baldurs Gate series. Can you perhaps give some examples of how you think it is anything like the Baldurs Gate series? The only thing I can think of that is even remotely similar is that they both used D&D systems albeit with very different editions and that they both had more than one character. Presumably the writing was better on the Obsidian versions since the writers at Biowhore really have always been indistinguishable from mentally challenged third graders. imho of course.

Since I loved BG2 and have played it so many times since it was released that I can barely stand to play it any more I really wish NWN2 OC played anything like Baldur's Gate 2. Like a lot of modern cRPGs I find NWN2 OC to be basically unplayable. Even SoZ I haven't managed to make it very far into before getting bored or maybe frustrated by the pre-MoTB controls. I would like to give SoZ one more of a chance though. But wasn't really until MoTB that I finally considered any NWN2 playable.

Anyway the point is that if NWN2 really had been a sequel-in-spirit in any real sense I would have loved it and played the shit out of it instead of ignoring it after a quick attempt at the shit interface and controls etc. I'm an old Biowhore drone at heart in the sense that I truly adored BG2 combat particularly with the Sword Coast Strategems mod.

 

[Goral]

@hiver
Reviews are by definition subjective. As long as the reviewer supports his opinion with well thought out arguments it's all good. Darth Roxor did exactly that but retards have problems with reading with comprehension. Alternatively they just skim through text and read the conclusion/summary. The same type of retards looks at the score of "8/10" at the end of the review thinking it's shit because it's not 9 or 10 and ignoring every argument that is in text. It doesn't matter that the reviewer lowered the score because of some minor bugs and outdated graphics even though that didn't affect his enjoyment, retards will only see that it has a shitty score, because anything below 9 is shit. At least that's how it works and that's why reviewers are often bribed one way or the other (if they don't play ball they lose the chance to get earlier copies of the game which was the case with CanardPC and Fallout 3 review IIRC).

The same thing happened with VD's Wasteland 2 review. He praised the game and said he enjoyed it but he also explicitly stated what's wrong with it and who might not like it. And yet there were many people who somehow couldn't see these warnings and now they blame VD for not being EXPLICIT enough so that you wouldn't have to read the whole thing.

 

[jewboy]

Am I supposed to apologize for liking nice graphics? I've always been a bit of a graphics whore. I won't lie. I don't need good graphics but I love them when they are available in a game that already has fun mechanics and/or a good story. I don't see how good graphics are a bad thing. PoE has them. WL2 does not. WL2 makes my eyes bleed and it makes me want to play it less. Surely Fallout 1 had nicer graphics. Funny that saying this 10 years ago here would have gotten me flamed to cinders. Now it's the console kiddie popamole lovers who will flame me for not giving a popamole trash mob mowing simulator the respect it supposedly deserves.

I went back and tried to play some of my old favs from the early 80s that I used to play on the sad excuse for a computer that was my Atari 400 on an emulator some years ago. Games like Crush, Crumble, and Chomp, Castle Wolfenstein, and Archon and I found them unplayable based on graphics alone. Hey what can I say? I'm not 12 years old anymore and 1982 was a long time ago. It takes more to keep me interested now. Probably too much actually. What's kind of sad is that I cannot even really play Might and Magic VI anymore solely due to the graphics (and having to emulate Windows98 or some shit like that) and I really liked MM6-8.