Review RPG Codex Review: Darth Roxor on Disappointment, thy name is Pillars of Eternity

[Kiste]

Yes, basically - overproduced, overdesigned, overbanalced, extremely boring, pseudo-mmo games that have no creative spark and utterly terrible core gameplay and for some reason are missing basic features and extremely buggy to boot are the best and you should be thankful you're getting any games at all. Oh and make sure you savor all those KEWL ANIMESHUNS like your character in Wasteland 2 spending 20 seconds to try and open a chest, or your characters in POE running around in combat like headless chickens because who the hell cares about gameplay in 2015?
\

I don't think you will ever enjoy a game again. Not because they're bad but because you're an idiot on a quest for an elusive holy grail of CRPGs that will never, ever be found and has never existed in the first place, you know, like the real one. Oh, maybe there will be some quirky indy title or another which caters to some specific itch you want to scratch right at that moment, but you're just too god damn bitter and jaded. You should stop gaming alltogether or maybe just kill yourself.

 

[jewboy]

But is PS:T polarizing around here? Seems to be a favorite of a lot of Codexians, even ones who don't normally care much about story. It was just so damn good that it was hard not to like at least a little. I even liked the combat, but I guess I am in the minority there. To me, the combat is way more fun than PoE.

 

[tuluse]

About what? That not everyone was convinced it was going to be a great game and that at least some Codexians were preaching that The Sawyer was a shitty game designer who couldn't be trusted with the project?

They said multiple times it was going to be more BG1/IWD1 and that they wanted to bring back the wilderness areas from BG1. It's not Obsidian's fault you can't read.

 

[jewboy]

Ah so they admitted they were shooting for something like the shitty popamole trash mob combat of BG1 rather than the more tactical combat of BG2 with the possible addition of SCSII type of tactical AI. Yeah I must have missed that part and I am betting a lot of other backers did too. I'd be curious to see where they admitted they were aiming that low. As someone else mentioned maybe they should have just hired the guy who wrote Sword Coast Strategems to do their AI since they so obviously suck at it.

 

[roshan]

I'm not really good enough at writing and having objective evaluations to write a proper review. Here goes my attempt ill try and keep it brief.
Easy combat. Broken consequences, you can finish the game letting all the people die its actually an adv as it keeps your troops fed even though whole point is supposed to be caring for a caravan. Pretty crazy feeling C&C. I mostly predicted the correct choices in most dialogues and the ones where I made a 'mistake' were something totally random you could never have prediced.
Disclosure : I did kind of put 300 hours into the multiplayer and get into the top 10 so maybe that is why I found the combat too easy.
Edit : at huge discount I would probably say just go for it though

I do see your point regarding the caravan, there's no systemic or mechanical reward for maintaining your caravan. But in the end this is an RPG, and the extent to which you take care of the caravan is essentially a role playing concern. It somewhat boils down to old issue of gamism vs simulationism, and I would argue that this aspect of Banner Saga is purely simulationist in nature. I personally found myself invested in the plot enough that seeing those caravan numbers drop was a painful experience, but realistically speaking this is one of those things that are highly YMMV.

As for the CnC. I actually really liked the way Banner Saga handled it. You're supposed to use your own good judgment and instinct to figure out the best course of action, and if you fail the consequences are sometimes quite serious. I thought it was quite interesting to make CnC a matter of player skill, and also to have real consequences, instead of the way other RPGs handle it in which it was usually nothing more than picking between two different flavors of ice cream. Of course the game keeps things fresh by having some unpredictable results, and having some of your actions blow back in the long term. Which funnily enough is also pretty simulationist - in real life you aren't able to accurately predict the results of your choices either, and yes often if you fuck up there's serious shit you will need to deal with and no going back.

I thought combat was overall quite easy and very, very rarely lost battles. I attribute this to the almost purely deterministic nature of the system. When you can basically crunch numbers and make the most logical and optimal decisions every turn, there really isn't that much scope left for challenge or difficulty. I actually still really loved the combat though, purely because it was such a refreshing change from the usual RPG systems, the "board game" feel, the determinism, the gorgeous animations, the thinking that was involved. Great stuff.

Overall I see all the concerns regarding the above elements, but they're all YMMV, I personally thought all of them were actually strengths of the game.

 

[roshan]

But is PS:T polarizing around here? Seems to be a favorite of a lot of Codexians, even ones who don't normally care much about story. It was just so damn good that it was hard not to like at least a little. I even liked the combat, but I guess I am in the minority there. To me, the combat is way more fun than PoE.

Yeah I never really saw what was wrong with PST combat either. Nothing spectacular, but it was serviceable enough. And there were some really high points to the combat such as the cranium rats who could fire off some pretty fucked up spells when they were in large groups.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

They said multiple times it was going to be more BG1/IWD1 and that they wanted to bring back the wilderness areas from BG1. It's not Obsidian's fault you can't read.

Wasn't the whole lead-up that they kept which exact IE-game most inspired it as vague as possible? I mean, I think the quote you're basing this off is Sawyer saying:

PE is going to have more of an exploration focus than BG2 (though not as much as BG)

but maybe I'm wrong. Roguey of course knows best.

 

[Vault Dweller]

They don't break any rules and they don't do anything risky. They don't offend anyone. To be really great, a game has to polarize.

Not really. PST was a great game but it neither offended nor polarized. Same goes for Legends of Grimrock 2, for example.

Obsidian should have made the game they wanted to make, no the game they thought fans wanted.

Obsidian is a large company that used to spend a million bucks a month a few years back (maybe still does). It feeds over a hundred employees and is always a step away from lay offs. They survived because they've always played it safe and that's why they made a BG-like game and not Fallout or something cool and new and weird.

I expect Obsidian's talent to shine in the expansion packs, much like it always did, as that's the one (only?) arena where they can stop playing it safe and try new things.

That's what made PS:T great, I think. Their enthusiasm and love for it.

And the fact that it was made by a division of a large publishing house, a division that didn't have to rely on PST sales to keep people employed.

 

[roshan]

Yes, basically - overproduced, overdesigned, overbanalced, extremely boring, pseudo-mmo games that have no creative spark and utterly terrible core gameplay and for some reason are missing basic features and extremely buggy to boot are the best and you should be thankful you're getting any games at all. Oh and make sure you savor all those KEWL ANIMESHUNS like your character in Wasteland 2 spending 20 seconds to try and open a chest, or your characters in POE running around in combat like headless chickens because who the hell cares about gameplay in 2015?
\

I don't think you will ever enjoy a game again. Not because they're bad but because you're an idiot on a quest for an elusive holy grail of CRPGs that will never, ever be found and has never existed in the first place, you know, like the real one. Oh, maybe there will be some quirky indy title or another which caters to some specific itch you want to scratch right at that moment, but you're just too god damn bitter and jaded. You should stop gaming alltogether or maybe just kill yourself.

No actually after playing a ton of good-great 2D isometric RPG's (Shadowrun, Dragonfall, Lords of Xulima, Halfway, The Banner Saga), I actually couldn't believe that PoE wouldn't be able to deliver the incline. But it actually turned out to be a lot worse than I had initially expected.

 

[FeelTheRads]

I don't think you will ever enjoy a game again. Not because they're bad but because you're an idiot on a quest for an elusive holy grail of CRPGs that will never, ever be found and has never existed in the first place, you know, like the real one. Oh, maybe there will be some quirky indy title or another which caters to some specific itch you want to scratch right at that moment, but you're just too god damn bitter and jaded. You should stop gaming alltogether or maybe just kill yourself.

Ah, the good old "swallow shit and learn to like it otherwise you might as well stop eating".
How about YOU go kill yourself right after you leave? Thx.

 

[roshan]

Not really. PST was a great game but it neither offended nor polarized.

You may have missed the BG2 vs PST megathreads on the old BIS forums.

 

[Athelas]

Thing is, I know exactly what to like. I like Bayonetta and I like Crimzon Clover. I like the simple elegance of NieR's writing/voice acting and I like the oodles of atmosphere oozing from the sound design from Thief. I like Terra Nova's fun combination of story and RPG elements in a vehicular FPS and I like the great enemy AI in the first Fear game.

The problem is, these games - WL2 and PoE and perhaps even D:OS though it does have a more homemade, rustic charm - they were made with checklists. They follow principles. They don't break any rules and they don't do anything risky. They don't offend anyone. To be really great, a game has to polarize. The best games are games that people here will argue with you about for liking them. The best games are made with, for lack of a better word, love - because the team that created them believed, truly believed, that this was the game they wanted to make and play.

Obsidian should have made the game they wanted to make, no the game they thought fans wanted.

That's what made PS:T great, I think. Their enthusiasm and love for it.

... okay I am sorry, I had a bit too much wine. My Italian neighbor keeps giving me wine whenever I am depressed. He gives me so much wine. I wish he wasn't so damn Catholic.

You should get drunk on wine more often.

 

[Prime Junta]

Their original pitch listed BG1, IWD, and PS:T as inspiration, but not BG2. Likely because Josh doesn't/didn't like BG2.

That may have changed though as in a more recent interview, that's the game he recommended to someone asking which IE game he should play if he played only one.

Obsidian Entertainment and our legendary game designers Chris Avellone, Tim Cain, and Josh Sawyer are excited to bring you a new role-playing game for the PC. Project Eternity (working title) pays homage to the great Infinity Engine games of years past: Baldur’s Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment.

 

[almondblight]

the more tactical combat of BG2

 

[Alex]

I still can't understand why people are wasting their time discussing this mediocre game, when it's entirely obvious that the best RPG ever made (after Ultima 9) it's NWN RPG Mystery Of The Lost Herbs

Is it too much to ask for all people who make videos on youtube to be mutes?

 

[jewboy]

Although I loved BG2 and replayed it countless times despite the cheesy amateurish writing and dumb story, I could never get very far into BG1. I never liked the original Baldurs Gate. The story and writing if anything was even worse than BG2 and the combat just never felt right to me. I've always meant to get around to playing through it but every time I try I lose interest pretty quickly. So the differences seem significant to me even if they don't seem all that great on paper. The game just feels different from BG2. OTOH I quite enjoyed IWD1 combat and to a lesser extent IWD2 combat as well. Although I've never been able to finish either game probably due to the lack of any real story to hold my interest. But I think PoE combat has a lot more in common with Dragon Age than it does with Baldurs Gate 1.

 

[Kz3r0]

Obsidian is a large company that used to spend a million bucks a month a few years back (maybe still does). It feeds over a hundred employees and is always a step away from lay offs. They survived because they've always played it safe and that's why they made a BG-like game and not Fallout or something cool and new and weird.

I expect Obsidian's talent to shine in the expansion packs, much like it always did, as that's the one (only?) arena where they can stop playing it safe and try new things.

And that's the whole point isn't it?
Luckily the poor sods awaiting for the coming of the one and true RPG from them haven't realized that yet.

 

[Brayko]

There are no true RPG's

 

[Hatred]

But I think PoE combat has a lot more in common with Dragon Age than it does with Baldurs Gate 1.

Its good to know I am not the only person thinking this.

 

[jewboy]

You should get drunk on wine more often.

Yeah that was a nice post even if it isn't completely accurate. It had soul. How Meta. Maybe The Sawyer and his little minions should have gotten drunk on wine a bit more often too. Might have given the game a bit more soul rather than the hollowborn creation that it turned out to be.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Obsidian is a large company that used to spend a million bucks a month a few years back (maybe still does). It feeds over a hundred employees and is always a step away from lay offs. They survived because they've always played it safe and that's why they made a BG-like game and not Fallout or something cool and new and weird.

I expect Obsidian's talent to shine in the expansion packs, much like it always did, as that's the one (only?) arena where they can stop playing it safe and try new things.

And that's the whole point isn't it?
Luckily the poor sods awaiting for the coming of the one and true RPG from them haven't realized that yet.

Them poor sods must be illiterate then because Obsidian aimed to make a BG clone (the very opposite of 'the one and true RPG') from day one and didn't really make a secret out of it.

 

[Kz3r0]

Them poor sods must be illiterate then because Obsidian aimed to make a BG clone from day one and didn't really make a secret out of it.

More retards that guzzled too much of the INCLINE kool aid while remaining blissfully unaware of what capitalsm and the market are, of which Kickstarter is just an extension.

 

[Jim the Dinosaur]

Their original pitch listed BG1, IWD, and PS:T as inspiration, but not BG2. Likely because Josh doesn't/didn't like BG2.

That may have changed though as in a more recent interview, that's the game he recommended to someone asking which IE game he should play if he played only one.

Obsidian Entertainment and our legendary game designers Chris Avellone, Tim Cain, and Josh Sawyer are excited to bring you a new role-playing game for the PC. Project Eternity (working title) pays homage to the great Infinity Engine games of years past: Baldur’s Gate, Icewind Dale, and Planescape: Torment.

It seems more that they're using Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale here to signify the series rather than the first games in these series. Besides, is there seriously any sign that PS:T was more of an inspiration than BG2 or IWD2?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Them poor sods must be illiterate then because Obsidian aimed to make a BG clone from day one and didn't really make a secret out of it.

More retards that guzzled too much of the INCLINE kool aid while remaining blissfully unaware of what capitalsm and the market are, of which Kickstarter is just an extension.

It's not really capitalism/market forces at work as much as the gullibility of country bumpkins and eagerness to trade gold for empty promises, which is what KS is all about. It's the re-imagined carnival - hey, fella, you like awesome games, don't you? come take a look, it's free - where the parting of fools and their money is done in the most efficient way possible, turning promises into millions.

 

[Kz3r0]

It's not really capitalism/market forces at work as much as

I was implying that whole running a business affair, hard to understand for many, but you got what I meant.