Thats not true. If we assume god is some kind of evil monster then not even your thoughts can serve as proof of anything. Just the fact that you are thinking wouldn't mean anything in that case. You would be nothing more then a program build to think its thinking independently.
But i was rather arguing that thinking - everything is a lie - is nonsense just by itself, nothing more then extreme assumption - so it does not need any special proof for or against it.
Because it is nonsense extreme idea.
You misunderstand me to be arguing that everything is a lie there, for some strange reason, while that very sentence proves that kind of thinking is basically an oxymoron.
maybe i should have made it clearer....
If you are thinking everything is a lie, then that very thought may not be true - ok?
Or, if you think everything is a lie - then you cannot think that "everything is a lie" is true - since that would defeat the starting position.
You can spin yourself inside such preposterous assumptions indefinitely and thats just pointless. Since the starting position is preposterous unfounded extreme assumption.
Besides that, i exist even when i dont think, obviously, as that happens every night when im sleeping.
"You would be nothing more then a program build to think its thinking independently." Funny you should mention this, because this is quite a strong movement in modern philosophy - people are just an outcome of their "hardware" and they're only under the illusion of will, because they don't understand the complexity of their own mental patterns. But what does this really say? You said it your self; you're not really thinking, yoy're just a program
thinking its thinking independently. But that's all you need, that's your proof right there.
So aplllying that to what you said would look like this:
"If you are thinking everything is a lie, then that very thought may not be true - ok?" - If everything is a lie (or just a possibly lie, we don't need the extremes), then the legitimate conclusion would be: content of your thoughts is a lie, your thinking is not independent, your process of thinking is flawed etc. etc. That's all true hiver. But you cannot deny that something is really happening there. Is it possible that you're wrong in determining what exactly is happening? Sure. That's based on the premise that everything is a lie. But again, that's just a content of your thoughts. There is obviously some activity/operation/function happening there and this function has to have some kind of cause. If you really want to claim that even the thinking itself (or rather function in the words of modern philosophy) is a lie, then the only way how to prove that is not doing anything at all, which is equivalent to death. But the very thought "Wait a second, am I dead (non existent)?" is the only prove you need to rightfully establish that you're indeed not dead, therefore somehow existing.
"Or, if you think everything is a lie - then you cannot think that "everything is a lie" is true - since that would defeat the starting position." - Same here, the starting position only applies to the content of your thoughts (or nature of your thoughts) and that's because what I said in my first post: it's a logical conclusion, a pattern of how human deduction works, but that's it. Experiencing some process (i.e. claiming that everything is a lie and somehow conclude it's the truth) cannot be denied, no matter the position it's supposed to defeat. And it doesn't even do that. Again, the only thing that's established by that statement is that everything you think about your own thinking might me as well lie/wrong. Which is not the same as claiming the thinking itself is not happening.
"Besides that, i exist even when i dont think, obviously, as that happens every night when im sleeping." - In this manner of speaking, you might as well be dead when you're sleeping.
The encounters are just the same shit over, and over, and over again. It's like a Korean MMO.
Is this some kind of a trend nowadays? Fucking trash fights everywhere.
this thread.
.
