Codex Review RPG Codex Retrospective Review: Pillars of Eternity Revisited

[luj1]

When is the next Pillars review coming?

You mean before or after this site gets renamed to PoEcentral? DarkCucklord has already sold the main page to Sawyer

 

[Decado]

Can I do the review of PoE 2? And by "the" review I mean "one of the several" reviews?

I thought you'd decided you weren't cut out for Kodex-kaliber reviewing.

The lord hates a coward.

 

[HoboForEternity]

PoE was good then, and better now.

BG2> PoE > BG1
When dedfire is released it probably will be

Dedfire > bg2 > poe> bg1

 

[ArchAngel]

You guys are still debating with PoEtards?! The last Goty vote where TW3 was first showed how loved PoE is here (not very) and in year of its release it was near the bottom of the list.
They didn't even explain how the game is improved with my questions, no point in debating.
As someone said, this should have been an expansion review, the base game is forever tainted.

 

[Sizzle]

]

PoE 3.0 has nearly as good if not better itemization than Shadows of Amn.

you cucks actually believe that?

For the record, I do prefer BG2's itemization - but that's primarily because of the sheer quantity of items and various effects they have.

But people here seem to forget ignore that BG2 also had its share of broken items:

Mace of Disruption (can instantly kill undead), Blackrazor, Crom Faeyr, etc. And that's without going into all the ridiculously OP stuff from ToB.

And that's really the crux of the argument - in any other topic, the IE games can be criticized fairly, and with good reason, but whenever PoE is thrown into the mix, people deliberately ignore all of IE's shortcomings just so they can bash PoE.

There's plenty about PoE you can rightfully criticize, you don't have to go into bullshit mode to make a valid point.

 

[Jaedar]

Grunker
Still waiting for those concrete examples of how the character system has gotten better.

 

[luj1]

Grunker
Still waiting for those concrete examples of how the character system has gotten better.

You cant fix it, the ruleset is fundamentally flawed. You would need to redo the whole game.

 

[Wizfall]

I played PoE three times.

The first time at release, i stopped playing at Defiance Bay because i found the game very boring.
I disliked :
- the city a lot (not enough thing to do looked deserted)
- the writing and story was very badly put together (nice ideas but complicated strange" setting" words all over and too much text to say too few things while i usually love reading everything i can BTW)
- the itemization was awful
- too much abilities per encounter (i like to only micro manage mage/priest, yea i like "fighter type"on "auto pilot")
On other hand i like the character creation (except might attribute, really awful idea), the graphics and the combat system somewhat (engagement rules and longer fight in general was a + compared to IE games).

The second time it was maybe 1 year ago (already PoE 3.something) and without any extension, i stopped playing at the beginning of act III.
While i found the game much improved it was still too boring in the end.

The third time is a month ago with all the talk about PoE II. Got the 2 extensions this time.
I find the game much improved again and i'm really enjoying it this time.
I think it might have helped i got the time to assimilate the combat mechanics really well and that i got the setting much better too after all my previous reading my last two partial playthrough (much easier to digest as i have some things assimilated).

About character customization, i would not enter a debate but it is much better than in Baldur (and BG2 is one of my Top5 all time great and still much better than POE), saying otherwise is dumb IMO.
Much more different build from the same class are possible especially with the itemization which have been tremendously improved (to the point it's close to BG2 now).
Saying stats does not matter is insane,a medium 10 statistic to a 18 make a huge difference. Might impacting healing and damage spell is still a huge mood breaker from a roleplay perspective though.

About difficulty, the game on hard is roughly of the same level of difficulty of BG2 so no major complain on my part.
The issue is it makes a huge difference depending on the number of people in your party (as in BG2).
A six team party will roll over anything while a two/three team party is fine (i guess it is why the difficulty is fine for me as i dislike managing more than two extra companions) .
The main issue is it's extremely difficult to balance unless you balance everything for a 6 man party.

Overall final product with the two expansion is quite great (better than BGI but still quite far from BG2) and give a lot of hope for PoE II.

 

[luj1]

PoE 3.0 has nearly as good if not better itemization than Shadows of Amn.

 

[MasPingon]

Wizfall Did they fix the fortress management? It was ridiculously bad and useless back in the day.

 

[Prime Junta]

Wizfall Did they fix the fortress management? It was ridiculously bad and useless back in the day.

They greatly improved it. Still nothing to shout about, but not actively offensive.

 

[Goral]

Wizfall
Playing for a third time a game that bored you seems masochistic if you ask me. Same goes for buying the expansions hoping it would suddenly make a boring game interesting. I do wonder, what was your reasoning? Why did you buy these extensions? Seems utterly unreasonable. Of course it would be a different thing if you had liked it from the start...

 

[Maculo]

Wizfall
Playing for a third time a game that bored you seems masochistic if you ask me. Same goes for buying the expansions hoping it would suddenly make a boring game interesting. I do wonder, what was your reasoning? Why did you buy these extensions? Seems utterly unreasonable. Of course it would be a different thing if you had liked it from the start...

I am not sure I understand your reasoning Goral. Wouldn't a similar example be Neverwinter Nights 2 and Mask of the Betrayer? At least in my mind, MotB brought huge improvements over the base game (which I did not care for much).

Or, do you doubt that Wizfall could dislike the base game, but enjoy the expansion?

 

[Lady_Error]

Wizfall Did they fix the fortress management? It was ridiculously bad and useless back in the day.

They greatly improved it. Still nothing to shout about, but not actively offensive.

The main improvement is that you can access the Tower bonuses by resting anywhere on the main castle map, instead of going through 4 doors each time.

I also liked the final battle for Caed Nua, where you can recruit allies from throughout the game to fight on your side. I thought that was a nice addition.

 

[Goral]

I am not sure I understand your reasoning Goral. Wouldn't a similar example be Neverwinter Nights 2 and Mask of the Betrayer? At least in my mind, MotB brought huge improvements over the base game (which I did not care for much).

MotB is an exception to the rule, I don't know any other game where original campaign is shitty but the expansion is great. As for White March, can it be played by skipping original PoE campaign? If not my questions shouldn't be strange.

 

[Maculo]

I am not sure I understand your reasoning Goral. Wouldn't a similar example be Neverwinter Nights 2 and Mask of the Betrayer? At least in my mind, MotB brought huge improvements over the base game (which I did not care for much).

MotB is an exception to the rule, I don't know any other game where original campaign is shitty but the expansion is great. As for White March, can it be played by skipping original PoE campaign? If not my questions shouldn't be strange.

But there are exceptions, and I would argue that the White March gets pretty close (although Motb is a fucking masterpiece). You cannot skip straight to the White March, but I think it becomes available around level four or five (someone corect me if I wrong). That should put one past the starting village and initially clearing Caed Nue I think (about an hour or so in?).

It is not as if Wizfall had to replay the entirety of the base game to reach the White March expansion content. It is a early to mid level adventure as far as I remember (I was technically overleveled when I did it). Therefore, I think it is reasonable for someone to dislike the base game, but enjoy the White March content. PoE is far from perfect, and the White March turned it from just an okay/meh game to a good game in my opinion. Not in the same league as Planescape Torment or MotB though.

edit: I am wrong, I guess it is level 7-8 adventure, which means you need to access Defiance Bay. I always screwed around, and so I do not know how long that would take if you were intent to skip as much as the base game as possible.

 

[Parabalus]

MotB is an exception to the rule, I don't know any other game where original campaign is shitty but the expansion is great.

Shadowrun returns vs Dragonfall? It should count as an expansion since it's wasn't standalone at release.

Neverwinter Nights vs Hordes of the Underdark? It's not really a MoTB level jump but still pretty substantial, in mechanics mostly.

 

[Sizzle]

You cannot skip straight to the White March, but I think it becomes available around level four or five (someone corect me if I wrong).

You have to finish Never Far From The Queen to trigger it. And I think that level 7-8 is recommended for it, but I could be wrong. Prime Junta?

 

[Parabalus]

You have to finish Never Far From The Queen to trigger it. And I think that level 7-8 is recommended for it, but I could be wrong. Prime Junta?

Yeah, you have to finish the Woedica quest. It's doable at level 4 immediately (but hard), no reason to wait around. The ogres have deliberately low defense stats so party level isn't a major factor.

 

[Goral]

Shadowrun returns vs Dragonfall?

Dragonfall isn't that great, it's an overrated tablet game with ZERO replayability. You can see everything in one playthrough (with one or two reloads to certain moments), it's very linear, there is no interaction plus the fights aren't that good. It's not bad for a single playthrough but that's it. Fallout Tactics is more "RPG-ish" and more replayable than this thing and that says something. And if you play SR first the difference between it and SD isn't that great.

As for NN, I've only played original campaign and was quickly bored, would never even try to install any expansions.

 

[ArchAngel]

I played PoE three times.

The first time at release, i stopped playing at Defiance Bay because i found the game very boring.
I disliked :
- the city a lot (not enough thing to do looked deserted)
- the writing and story was very badly put together (nice ideas but complicated strange" setting" words all over and too much text to say too few things while i usually love reading everything i can BTW)
- the itemization was awful
- too much abilities per encounter (i like to only micro manage mage/priest, yea i like "fighter type"on "auto pilot")
On other hand i like the character creation (except might attribute, really awful idea), the graphics and the combat system somewhat (engagement rules and longer fight in general was a + compared to IE games).

The second time it was maybe 1 year ago (already PoE 3.something) and without any extension, i stopped playing at the beginning of act III.
While i found the game much improved it was still too boring in the end.

The third time is a month ago with all the talk about PoE II. Got the 2 extensions this time.
I find the game much improved again and i'm really enjoying it this time.
I think it might have helped i got the time to assimilate the combat mechanics really well and that i got the setting much better too after all my previous reading my last two partial playthrough (much easier to digest as i have some things assimilated).

About character customization, i would not enter a debate but it is much better than in Baldur (and BG2 is one of my Top5 all time great and still much better than POE), saying otherwise is dumb IMO.
Much more different build from the same class are possible especially with the itemization which have been tremendously improved (to the point it's close to BG2 now).
Saying stats does not matter is insane,a medium 10 statistic to a 18 make a huge difference. Might impacting healing and damage spell is still a huge mood breaker from a roleplay perspective though.

About difficulty, the game on hard is roughly of the same level of difficulty of BG2 so no major complain on my part.
The issue is it makes a huge difference depending on the number of people in your party (as in BG2).
A six team party will roll over anything while a two/three team party is fine (i guess it is why the difficulty is fine for me as i dislike managing more than two extra companions) .
The main issue is it's extremely difficult to balance unless you balance everything for a 6 man party.

Overall final product with the two expansion is quite great (better than BGI but still quite far from BG2) and give a lot of hope for PoE II.

TLDR;
I tried homo sex but it hurt as soon as he pierced my ass so I quit it.
The second time 1 year ago I tried it again, this time I knew what to expect so he managed to push his dick all the way through, but then it started to hurt again so I quit again.
The third time this month I tried buttfucking again but this time he brought rubbing oil and prepared my anus for it all. This time I enjoyed it fully.

It is nice of you Wizfall that you decided to come out like this on the 'Dex. I am sure we will be full of understanding

 

[Prime Junta]

You cannot skip straight to the White March, but I think it becomes available around level four or five (someone corect me if I wrong).

You have to finish Never Far From The Queen to trigger it. And I think that level 7-8 is recommended for it, but I could be wrong. Prime Junta?

At level 7 it doesn't feel like a massive difficulty spike (until a bit later at least). At level 5 it's frankly brutal.

 

[Decado]

]

PoE 3.0 has nearly as good if not better itemization than Shadows of Amn.

you cucks actually believe that?

For the record, I do prefer BG2's itemization - but that's primarily because of the sheer quantity of items and various effects they have.

But people here seem to forget ignore that BG2 also had its share of broken items:

Mace of Disruption (can instantly kill undead), Blackrazor, Crom Faeyr, etc. And that's without going into all the ridiculously OP stuff from ToB.

And that's really the crux of the argument - in any other topic, the IE games can be criticized fairly, and with good reason, but whenever PoE is thrown into the mix, people deliberately ignore all of IE's shortcomings just so they can bash PoE.

There's plenty about PoE you can rightfully criticize, you don't have to go into bullshit mode to make a valid point.

My favorite thing about the Mace of Disruption and Crom Faeyr are that you can give them Anomen, and he is a fucking asshole.

 

[Maculo]

As for NN, I've only played original campaign and was quickly bored, would never even try to install any expansions.

I have not played Hordes of the Underdark in years, but similar to MotB, I remember it being considered a step up from the base game in terms of story, characters, and combat. You meet Drow that are not completely autistic for once, and the encounters were nice (for NN that is...).

Which reminds me, I still need to finish it

 

[Grunker]

Wizfall Did they fix the fortress management? It was ridiculously bad and useless back in the day.

Fortress remains the worst and most tacked on part of the game, even improved as it is. I also state this in the review.

You cannot skip straight to the White March, but I think it becomes available around level four or five (someone corect me if I wrong).

You have to finish Never Far From The Queen to trigger it. And I think that level 7-8 is recommended for it, but I could be wrong. Prime Junta?

At level 7 it doesn't feel like a massive difficulty spike (until a bit later at least). At level 5 it's frankly brutal.

I did it at level 5 and it's probably the hardest video game experience I've ever had - even so, I hit another road block at Galvino's Workship. I would recommend level 7. Level 6 will just be tough as nails. The two biggest issues are the no-rest Stalwart fights with A LOT of ogres and Galvino's.