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Rift / Vive / VR General
- Thread starter Jigawatt
- Start date
Dexter
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Perkel
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Got my Quest 2 on friday. Resolution upgrade is insane compared to GEN1 vr headsets.
- absolutely no screendoor effect whatsoever
- it is really really really hard to notice pixels
- it is very light and very small compared to GEN1 devices (like 60% of my PSVR)
- thanks to that res you can read small stuff and actually browse web and play 2D gameswithout issues
- If you use it as browser/play 2d games it feels like slightly below 1080p tv/monitor pixel density wise
- strap isn't that comfortable by itself but due to light weight headset is comfortable
- it is 3rd day and controllers have still 100% battery
- ~2H standalone
- ALVR gives you ability to stream PCVR into your headset, works brilliantly
Playing right now Half Life 1 trilogy natively on it. Tried HL Alyx for a while but imho it is another "experience" rather than game so not my cup of tea.
- absolutely no screendoor effect whatsoever
- it is really really really hard to notice pixels
- it is very light and very small compared to GEN1 devices (like 60% of my PSVR)
- thanks to that res you can read small stuff and actually browse web and play 2D gameswithout issues
- If you use it as browser/play 2d games it feels like slightly below 1080p tv/monitor pixel density wise
- strap isn't that comfortable by itself but due to light weight headset is comfortable
- it is 3rd day and controllers have still 100% battery
- ~2H standalone
- ALVR gives you ability to stream PCVR into your headset, works brilliantly
Playing right now Half Life 1 trilogy natively on it. Tried HL Alyx for a while but imho it is another "experience" rather than game so not my cup of tea.
A horse of course
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Was your previous headset an HTC Vive?
Perkel
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I had 4xPSVR, CV1 for like 2 weeks and VIVE for 3 months. 4xPSVR because i went back to it every time after i tried CV 1 and VIVE and was the cheapest best headset from GEN1 after all my testing.
The only cons so far is that panel is LCD like Index so blacks are kind of gray. I fucking loved on my PSVR dark games because it really felt different when only thing you saw on screen were things lit vs now where you see gray screen. Though 95% of games don't have this issue since they are lit.
edit: Also thanks to that constant switching with GEN1 headsets i actually earned money on whole VR thing. I am like 15$ on green and i basically played whole 3 years with them. Just buy used and sell before something better comes out, rebuy again at lower price.
I will probably do something like this with my Quest 2. I will sell it when Quest 3 will be annouced this year fall and rebuy it for lower price. Maybe i will swtich to Quest 3 if it will be decent upgrade. In latest earning call Oculus confirmed they are working on Quest 3 and it seems like Quest releases will be yearly like smarphones.
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A horse of course
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I really want to upgrade from my Vive but the good headsets are virtually impossible to acquire in China. Quest 2 is most widely available from import resellers, but that facebook shit is doubly irritating in a country where Facebook services are all blocked without a VPN. I saw the quest 3 news recently and was pleasantly surprised that they're upgrading so frequently. As much as people despise iphone-esque cons00merism, this will hopefully drive VR technology much faster than now.
Perkel
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That sure fucking sucks if facebook is blocked. Recently Abrash one of leads on developement along Carmack said that next headset will only feature stuff absolutely needed to work as mandatory so there is chance need for facebook account is only Quest 2 thing maybe even only for a while once they patch it out.
As for Quest 3 incoming this fall i really do wonder what they have in store. I think it is reasonable to assume that fovated rendering is ready. I already saw pieces of gear you can actually buy like tobi5 which has ridicolously great eye tracking using just cameras under your monitor so imho tech is ready.
Once you have eye tracking you can do fovated rendering which makes game render stuff in high res only where you look and mostly at center. This tech can ridicolously lower GPU requirements as you can run full res only in small portion of image while rest will gradually be rendered at lower resolution further from eye sight. This combined with AI means that they can go even lower with rendering resolution and use AI upscaling to "fill in" missing details.
This is the portion about fovated rendering + AI upscaling from 2018 connect:
Fovated rendering could really change the game when it comes to hardware needed. Unlike flat screens VR headsets don't need to really render anything with great precision outside of very small part where you look at something. Good estimate is that once that technology comes online you basically can reduce needed power of GPU by 80% which means that VR headsets have possibility of beating to punch flat screens when it comes to picture quality without needing top tier GPUs.
Fovated rendering could be done on flat screens as Tobi5 shows it but the degree of errors and problem with lighting conditions, many people watching screen etc would make it finnicky while VR headsets have perfect conditions how developers want them.
Perkel
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Carmack on Quest 2 and future of Quest 2 and future of their headsets. Pretty great talk about why they went with Quest 2 it went and other stuff like incoming updates. Some summary from last year connect.
- he personally wants wifi streaming. Users are already using it via virtual desktop ALVR but internally they want better quality thus they are not doing it yet but might ship it in update.
- requirement of USB3.0 for link is pretty BS. At most they are using 150mbit/s and you can easily use usb 2.0 without issue but it does give them extra bandwidth to experiment and upgrade.
- multitasking is on their go to list atm.
- they are working on VRR currently for Quest 2. VR devices unlike normal desktops don't display non stop backlight but they flash it and in their research they noticed that it is quite problematic to make VRR work correctly. They are still wip on this and they don't know if they will put out update. It might need display hardware changes.
- they are not happy with blacks on Quest 2 due to LCD but trade of with proper RGB strips and much higher resolution was worth it
- they are still working on android system and more features will come online in updates so the phone part would work much nicely with exisiting android ecosystem
- They can enable 120hz because display supports it but they have considerations about heat and ghosting. This needs more R&D too see if they can actually enable it without issues.
- Carmack being Carmack. Fucker did hand tracking, head tracking and controller tracking entirely on DSP (video encode/decode) which means all that tracking is done without either CPU or GPU.
- He is not so bullish on fovated rendering as other people but he sees many other advantages than in just redering. Like using eye tracking to changed IPD to correct amount instantly, do proper anti-chromatic instant abberation algorithms. So stuff like "sweetspot" could be thing of past in a while.
- XR2 is pretty powerful but they are mostly limited by thermals. IT would be much faster if not for thermals. 1big super core with extra cache seemed like advantage but in real use it turned out to be an problem. It take more energy and doesn't clock as much as other gold cores.
- They are conservative with custom silicon and don't plan to do their own at the time. There is simply too much improvmenets in pipeline just on software side to design custom silicon and throw it all away after one generation when new compression alorithm on GPU will be faster than their custom silicon can do. They do want though matrixes silicon (think tensor cores). AI seems to be a big future for future of VR due to fovated rendering and upscaling.
- He thinks that in very near future VR headsets will be just better than monitors and TVs to do 2D content, work etc. For example he pointed out how with it you don't need multiple monitors to do some coding. You can make as many as you want since all are virtual. The limit for now obviously screen resolution but he predicts even more high res displays hitting market for VR pretty quickly.
- When it comes to lenses he thinks there is a lot of improvement there like pancake lenses or something more exotic and things are in R&D but if something like this won't end up in next headset they will probably go for display stuff like local dimming, HDR and other stuff that might improve experience in non resolution way.
- Despite Quest 2 tracking being great he is still not happy with it. He wants better cameras on next headset.
- Making ultra lightweight headset is priority, they are happy with Quest 2 500g and close to Go (460g) but they want to go further. A lot of comfort problems with VR is mainly due to weight. This also saves cost on expensive counter balance headstrap design. Main limit is battery right now. The point is to make VR headset being used for hours without problems like most of VR headsets now have.
- He is not happy with boudry/guardian system. He wants it to be seamless to user and user never setting up by themselves anything. Basically when you get near something headset would warn you like now but you wouldn't need to set it up yourself.
- There were internal issues where a lot of people wanted to do only gaming VR while he wanted to do more like general VR and now that Quest 2 is released they unified everything into one box (pc + standalone) which solves that issue. They will probably not release anymore any PC standalone headset.
- He believes that faster iteration with cheap headset will lead to better VR headset than competition which will throw kitchen and sink at headset and won't be able to polish things up. Witch cheap headset they can iterate faster. Which means there won't be probably expensive VR headset from Oculus coming soon because they can improve faster cheaper headset faster with whole team than spliting team to work on some expensive hardware that will be barely better by the time it releases compared to cheaper one with full team of people behind it. He mentions that Quest 2 is one of the best VR headsets right now while being the cheapest and thing will accelerate from now on.
- Controlers add a lot of cost to whole headset and he thinks that not including them in future is way to go just like you don't get pad to your laptop. IT would significantly lower price of headset. Naturally they have already working hand tracking and R&D on it hard to make sure all things are compat., additional stuff like voice tracking etc. The problem is in cost so they are researching ways to lower down cost of them without compromises.
- he personally wants wifi streaming. Users are already using it via virtual desktop ALVR but internally they want better quality thus they are not doing it yet but might ship it in update.
- requirement of USB3.0 for link is pretty BS. At most they are using 150mbit/s and you can easily use usb 2.0 without issue but it does give them extra bandwidth to experiment and upgrade.
- multitasking is on their go to list atm.
- they are working on VRR currently for Quest 2. VR devices unlike normal desktops don't display non stop backlight but they flash it and in their research they noticed that it is quite problematic to make VRR work correctly. They are still wip on this and they don't know if they will put out update. It might need display hardware changes.
- they are not happy with blacks on Quest 2 due to LCD but trade of with proper RGB strips and much higher resolution was worth it
- they are still working on android system and more features will come online in updates so the phone part would work much nicely with exisiting android ecosystem
- They can enable 120hz because display supports it but they have considerations about heat and ghosting. This needs more R&D too see if they can actually enable it without issues.
- Carmack being Carmack. Fucker did hand tracking, head tracking and controller tracking entirely on DSP (video encode/decode) which means all that tracking is done without either CPU or GPU.
- He is not so bullish on fovated rendering as other people but he sees many other advantages than in just redering. Like using eye tracking to changed IPD to correct amount instantly, do proper anti-chromatic instant abberation algorithms. So stuff like "sweetspot" could be thing of past in a while.
- XR2 is pretty powerful but they are mostly limited by thermals. IT would be much faster if not for thermals. 1big super core with extra cache seemed like advantage but in real use it turned out to be an problem. It take more energy and doesn't clock as much as other gold cores.
- They are conservative with custom silicon and don't plan to do their own at the time. There is simply too much improvmenets in pipeline just on software side to design custom silicon and throw it all away after one generation when new compression alorithm on GPU will be faster than their custom silicon can do. They do want though matrixes silicon (think tensor cores). AI seems to be a big future for future of VR due to fovated rendering and upscaling.
- He thinks that in very near future VR headsets will be just better than monitors and TVs to do 2D content, work etc. For example he pointed out how with it you don't need multiple monitors to do some coding. You can make as many as you want since all are virtual. The limit for now obviously screen resolution but he predicts even more high res displays hitting market for VR pretty quickly.
- When it comes to lenses he thinks there is a lot of improvement there like pancake lenses or something more exotic and things are in R&D but if something like this won't end up in next headset they will probably go for display stuff like local dimming, HDR and other stuff that might improve experience in non resolution way.
- Despite Quest 2 tracking being great he is still not happy with it. He wants better cameras on next headset.
- Making ultra lightweight headset is priority, they are happy with Quest 2 500g and close to Go (460g) but they want to go further. A lot of comfort problems with VR is mainly due to weight. This also saves cost on expensive counter balance headstrap design. Main limit is battery right now. The point is to make VR headset being used for hours without problems like most of VR headsets now have.
- He is not happy with boudry/guardian system. He wants it to be seamless to user and user never setting up by themselves anything. Basically when you get near something headset would warn you like now but you wouldn't need to set it up yourself.
- There were internal issues where a lot of people wanted to do only gaming VR while he wanted to do more like general VR and now that Quest 2 is released they unified everything into one box (pc + standalone) which solves that issue. They will probably not release anymore any PC standalone headset.
- He believes that faster iteration with cheap headset will lead to better VR headset than competition which will throw kitchen and sink at headset and won't be able to polish things up. Witch cheap headset they can iterate faster. Which means there won't be probably expensive VR headset from Oculus coming soon because they can improve faster cheaper headset faster with whole team than spliting team to work on some expensive hardware that will be barely better by the time it releases compared to cheaper one with full team of people behind it. He mentions that Quest 2 is one of the best VR headsets right now while being the cheapest and thing will accelerate from now on.
- Controlers add a lot of cost to whole headset and he thinks that not including them in future is way to go just like you don't get pad to your laptop. IT would significantly lower price of headset. Naturally they have already working hand tracking and R&D on it hard to make sure all things are compat., additional stuff like voice tracking etc. The problem is in cost so they are researching ways to lower down cost of them without compromises.
Dexter
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Why would you "browse the web and play 2D games" on it? That's not what it's meant for and you won't get a better result Streaming 2D games Wirelessly to your Mobile HMD than playing on a monitor or TV with a more effective use of your screen resolution, more detail and while not having to wear something on top of your head for however long you want to play...
How the fuck are "Index base stations annoying"? You literally have to put them up on the wall in opposite sides of the room, then never touch them again and they give you perfect tracking with no cameras involved. It's the best way of tracking. Aside from that the Index also has the best sound solution.
Also how is it an important point for you that the controllers have "superior battery life" (which you apparently already know will last literally months after only 3 days) when the HMD itself is out of juice after 2 hours? If you have to recharge that to play, you might as well have to recharge the controllers too. Every single HMDs Controller batteries lasted much longer than 2 hours. What fucking good are charged controllers going to do you if you have to recharge the headset itself every 2 hours to be able to continue playing? It's like having an Xbox Controller that lasts for days but having to plug in and recharge your portable TV every 2 hours to be able to use it. The Controller wasn't the problem in the first place.
Also these Mobile devices, while more "lightweight" are a lot less comfortable than an Index or even CV1 since front-heavy and with a shitty/cheap strap.
GOTY 2020 is apparently an "experience", and you prefer the Monorail Simulator called Half Life 1 to it that's totally not an "experience" in its opening level. I wonder if you even played Alyx at all tbh, this is so stupid. And how the fuck can you still "mainly" use a VR HMD not for actually playing any VR games but as a bad Emulator using VorpX on games that will give you hours of trouble even getting the rendering and basic functions to work correctly and won't have any of the game features or controls that make out a good VR game?
Leaving aside that even after 4 years you apparently still manage to fail to comprehend what VR is mainly about and prefer the one VR Headset that doesn't actually have native PC VR support and the shittiest controllers with shitty positional tracking based on fucking EyeToys:
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/sooo-i-bought-vr-psvr-for-pc.116244/#post-5189719
https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/sooo-i-bought-vr-psvr-for-pc.116244/page-2#post-5196889
How the fuck do you manage to buy and sell the same Headset for 4 times if you like it so much? Why would you even do this and not just keep it, if not the first then at least the second time? This alone makes it clear that you have some sort of mental issues... And that with kit that you have to wear on your head and don't know where it's been or what someone did with it?
That's literally the opposite of what Carmack has said:
It would also have been the dumbest thing in the world to go through that PR nightmare and all the people wishing them to go to hell only to try and take it back. The only way that goes away is through regulator intervention.
Foveated Rendering is still far from a solved problem, and even then it will likely not "reduce needed power of GPU by 80%" like you claim.
We've been over this shit back in early 2018 in this very thread on page 3:
It's 3 years later now and if anything Abrash/Carmack have only moved back from it and you're STILL saying that it's just around the corner, here's Carmack from Connect 2019 and 2020 btw.:
https://redditoscope.com/f/connect-carmack-2020/
If you're talking about "Fixed Foveated Rendering", which is essentially that the middle of the screen is rendered at a higher resolution and the parts further away at a lower one it's already in there since the release of the first Oculus Go.
If you're talking about "Eye Tracking" and rendering only specific points you are looking at, that's still much further away (likely 3-5 years), and no the "Tobi Demos" don't prove that it's "ready" for commercial release in any way or form.
And 20-30% might be as much as the upper limits of GPU performance savings with today's technology, in which case it's a question if it's even worth it given some of the other downsides that come with it.
The Rendering pipeline side of that would also have to be implemented on a per-engine basis in Unreal/Unity/etc. itself and it's FAR from a trivial process that would take a lot of time and would require them rejigging and rethinking the basic paradigm for rendering games. No single hardware company will be able to do this without major engine support and buy-in.
IF they'll have any sort of eye-tracking it'll likely be a lot less about rendering gains and more about tracking your pupil movements and what you're looking at for the Facebook database.
BCI is even much further away from being able to do anything actually useful and you're talking it up like it's not an experimental pipe-dream right now: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/soon-mind-vs-mouse-keyboard-vs-pad-wars.136950/
It's like with Star Shitizen and your "cloud tech" that you keep bringing up, like you hear and repeat things without seemingly having any deeper underlying understanding of any of them.
You're also completely nonchalant about the privacy implications that requiring a Facebook account and having Live cameras and a microphone in your living room already brings with it, and you're apparently looking forward to Facebook developing technology for tracking your pupils and micro-movements and getting ready for them to read your brain waves... I wonder if you'd remain entirely unconcerned or even applaud them if they implemented an anal probe feature, a mouth-gag to collect your DNA and had to implant electrodes in your brain to be able to use it?
Every time I stumble upon something you write I feel the need to fucking facepalm.
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Perkel
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Why do people use triple monitor setup to play games and productivity ? VR gives you ability to add as many screens as you want. In 2D racing game if it doesn't support Vr just do ultra wide and bend screen around you and unlike traditional monitors you can bend it also on vertically. You can also adjust size of your "monitor" to as big small you want. Have second screen to read discord watch tv etc. While current 2k headsets are still a bit from great experience once we reach 4k per eye there will be little point in buying some great TV or minitor when for cheap you can get something that will look much nicer in VR
Imho it needs both better res and to be even more light weight and smaller.
Because:
- you have to have space first for them
- connect them to power
- inside out tracking effectively made it obsolete
- it is another piece you have to pay for
Except VIVE controlers had like 2-3 hours battery life maybe top 4 hours if they were fresh new.
Because it is another day playing a bit with it and they are still 100%. And people already said online that those things will take months to remove single charge. Also if you don't know it, you can actually connect Quest 2 to PC via cable which will work as your standard PCVR and will charge it at the same time. So no problem with battery here and you can extend battery life 2-5 times by simply mounting battery pack at back of your head (which also works as counter weight). I yesterday tried to connect it to 10k mah battery and i played 7 hours with it and i still had plenty of juice. Wireless PCVR takes a lot less power, 2H gets extended to more like 3h and with battery pack to easily 10 hours+.
While it is true that they are front heavy, Quest 2 is only 500g. After fiddling with strap a bit it is much more comfortable than VIVE CV1 or PSVR which has halo design simply because all of them weight more and weight of device is something you feel over long period of time. Weight of device also has impact on how "hard" you need to strap it to your head in order for it to sit tight. In case of Quest 2 it basically hangs on my brow while it is barely resting on my cheeks which is great and i can play for hours without "VR face". But like i said it is bit tricky to get right. Either way 700$ for better strap is not worth it.
MUH IMMERSHIUN lol. Fuck off. Alyx is barely a game. It is fucking "experience" like many other VR "experiences". Subnautica and NMS has more gameplay in VR than Alyx has. And yes HL1 is better than HL2 because it is actual fun shooter.
Also let us talk about how retarded AI is in Alyx VR compared to HL1 or HL2. It is clear just how gameplay was compromised for VR.
Because i am not fucking idiot like you to buy $1000 index to sit on my shelve most of the time loosing its worth ? If you read previous posts you would see that i am actually $15 in green and i played most of those 3-4 years in VR. 4 times PSVr because i tried every other GEN1 device and basically had to go back to PSVR because they were not worth at all money compared to PSVR.
And no i don't give a shit about wagging your ass or walking around or any other idiotic stuff you can "VR" which has other name called being faggot with Wii that still doesn't understand that motion gaming is shit outside of limited amount of use cases. Shooters and FPS games great. Anything else ? Adventure games. Outside of that hell fucking no. Oh and btw still no feedback and there won't be feedback unless we go into matrix.
PSVR was easily the best PCVR headset from GEN1. No screendoor effect at all, ultra cheap compared to lolvive and its lense adjustement was best from GEN1 devices. Which is why i sold both CV1 and VIVE after playing with them a bit. Vive especially sting because i spend good money for it and experience was basically worse as there was huge screen door effect despite resolution being slightly better. Oh and PSVR had 120hz while all other headsets only 90.
Abrash quote was after Carmack quote you shown.
Eye tracking is already available to not only VR but also flat screen gaming via Tobi5. And in both cases it works brilliantly. I already have shown you video of one and Tobi you can buy yourself there are also plenty of vids on net. Which means dynamic fovated rendering is around the corner for Vr headsets.
The 80% is not just fovated rendering but also AI upscaling/filling in missing details. Dynamic Fovated rendering would be anything from 30-40% depending on what you want to do with it. Like increasing to 4k ppx like in your fov and reduce a lot everywhere else which gives you no fps benefit but ultra sharp image seen by eye or not doing that and just render less outside of small fov which gives that boost.
20-30% is already what they got from fixed version of it. Dynamic will increase it more and AI will shoot it into stratosphere. Because only with like 5-7% of pixels you can contruct image via AI that will feel to your eye like native.
Horseshit. It is basically like rendering in lower res just adjusting that lower res to camera position. It is already DONE it is just that there is no eye tracking to attach it to so you have now fixed fovated rendering.
lok says dude who doesn't even understand what fovated rendering is and don't know tech that is currently available for you to buy.
Maybe i am not retarded like you to use social media and care about those things ? I used facebook back when i was in school it was already gay at the time and since then it is even worse. Only losers like you would care about that platform.
Choo choo, this is very nice riding in trains. Quite difficult to keep your train on the tracks sometimes.
COMPOUND is my go-to vr game. Everytime I intend to try out some games I end up playing COMPOUND instead. It is expensive, but it is a great roguelite shooter with amazing retro graphics. Everything about this game just feels right, the guns, the environments, it all feels very inspired.
I have hardly played this since it is a step above my pay grade which is admittedly very low, but I love how they keep updating it. They are now busy with a playable above water destroyer ship.
Modbox let's you build playable areas with gameplay. Lots of work to get it right.
I played this for a very short while and it seemed a lot of fun for kids.
A horse of course
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Perkel
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If you don't like him then it is good video for you watch him squirm and go insane that Valve has a problem.
tritosine2k
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You really shouldn't launch into diatribe at that level of naivety,
foveated rendering won't fix any pressing VR ailments, afaict it hardly works without dedicated foveated display , and current optics has a centered sweet spot that just happens to align with fixed foveated
Then you have stuff like this:
https://vr.arvilab.com/blog/ambient-occlusion
How foveated rendering going to fix that for you? How about you give up ALL THAT extra perfomance for non screen space variants ?
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Perkel
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You really shouldn't launch into diatribe at that level of naivety,
foveated rendering won't fix any pressing VR ailments, afaict it hardly works without dedicated foveated display , and current optics has a centered sweet spot
Then you have stuff like this:
https://vr.arvilab.com/blog/ambient-occlusion
How foveated rendering going to fix that for you? How about giving up all extra perfomance for non screen space variants ?
Fovated rendering means that you only render full res where you look and 1/2 1/4 and so on resolution outside of that place where you look. Your eye sees clearly in sweet spot but outside of that it doesn't really register much detail thus decreasing resolution on periphery of your vision is something you can't see. Periphery vision is only used to detect movement and rough understanding what is near place you are looking at.
So if you know that you can make game only run full resolution where you look at and outside of that lowering resolution the further from center it goes. This way you can save GPU power. Instead of rendering say 2000x2000 you render like 400x400 in center and total for whole image is like 1000x1000. where almost 50% of those pixels are in sweetspot where it matter the most.
Just like that you save 50% of gpu power.
There are two types of fovated rendering:
Static - point is locked and doesn't move. Like center of your headset display. To see full res something you have to move your head. In this case fovated rendering is limited as you can only apply it to borders of your screen. So instead of like 70% of your screen being lower res you can do at most 30% before user notices it.
Dynamic - it uses eye tracing to dynamically change resolution of screen depending on where user looks. With this you can only focus on small part where user looks. This way only like 30% of display will be rendered correctly while nearly 70% of it not.
Vr is natural case for fovated rendering because you are using headset which causes eyes to always be in one position in same lighting condition etc. Which means it is perfect place for eye tracking. PC gaming also can do eye tracking but it will be more error prone due to various conditions users are in like different lighting conditions, length from camera, other people looking etc. It will also arrive on PC/consoles but it will take much longer time.
Recently also there is AI upscaling which takes few pixels and makes out of them complete picture. DLSS is one example of that. With such tech you can combine dynamic fovated rendering and AI upscaling to have insane gains. Instead of 30% you can have like 5% of pixels that are need to be drawn at full res and rest can be rendered at superbly low level. Instead of 1/2 or 1/4 of full res more like 1/32 or 1/64 or even less. You won't notice a thing but your GPU will go from 100% to maybe like 20-30% despite image looking to you like full res.
With dynamic fovated rendering and AI upscaling you are looking at situation where it will be cheaper to play games on VR headset than normally because to run nice looking games on VR it will take much lower end gpu.
Naturally this tech will come to PC just much later due to eye tracking problems. AI upscaling already is in form of DLSS.
As for AO i don't know what you are even talking about. AO much like most of screen space effect just need to be corrected for different camera offset due to rendering most of image twice (geometry 3D) there are plenty of games that use screen space stuff without problem in VR. Hell even 2D games do that, though it depends on game engine and how effects were done. Obviously like with everything there is cost but nothing is for free.
For example Witcher 3 in VorpX has perfect AO but its shadows are missaligned. What fixes it is to give one eye priority for such effects. While end picture shadows are not correct you basically can't notice it.
There are other problems like most of cheap effects looking like trash in VR because you can see clear as day that this fog isn't really volumetric but cheap 2D sprite.
tritosine2k
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Dude, usual suspect screen space stuff barely works with flatscreens, constantly fuck up when you feed it depth complexity https://gamedev.net/forums/topic/70...too-much-occlusion-from-thin-objects/5397367/
Perfect AO ? You aren't even close to 5% of that.
How do you get razor sharp foveated rendering when you have deadcentered 5-10° worth of good MTF with current optics+display? So only fixed foveated makes sense for now. Eye tracking in near eye is what? 5usd of hardware ? Hint: the problem lies elsewhere.
Perfect AO ? You aren't even close to 5% of that.
How do you get razor sharp foveated rendering when you have deadcentered 5-10° worth of good MTF with current optics+display? So only fixed foveated makes sense for now. Eye tracking in near eye is what? 5usd of hardware ? Hint: the problem lies elsewhere.
Perkel
Arcane
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2014
- Messages
- 16,259
By perfect AO i meant same as on flat screen. Perfect AO requires raytracing.
Pancake lenses for full FOV sharpness. But even now if you use VR headset you still use your eyes not just your head to look at different things. Even if you look at side which doesn't have perfect shaprness due to lens distortion you still get benefit of reduced GPU use.
>Eye tracking in near eye is what? 5usd of hardware ? Hint: the problem lies elsewhere.
The problem was that eye tracking requires split second accuracy. And this was the problem for longest time. Because without that you would be looking on super low res image for split second every time you moved your eyes. This was resolved already last year with first demos. It takes time though to put it into device that is full finished product. Pimax already is working on such product and they shown it at the CES demo booth and it works (posted video link earlier)
Moreover you seem to think of FR as way to increase sharpness (which is true, you can do that by increasing resolution of something directly in your eye view say like 4k by 4k in that one point where you look) but you omit the biggest benefit aka reducing GPU work.
Sharpness of image is already very good with GEN2 devices. My Quest 2 sharpness is like watching something between 900p-1080p screen while playing games. Soon 4k per eye shouldn't be an issue on mass scale and the only thing limiting will be GPU of headset or PC.
Pancake lenses are also being worked which solves two issues: sharpness at sides and DOF.
Pancake lenses for full FOV sharpness. But even now if you use VR headset you still use your eyes not just your head to look at different things. Even if you look at side which doesn't have perfect shaprness due to lens distortion you still get benefit of reduced GPU use.
>Eye tracking in near eye is what? 5usd of hardware ? Hint: the problem lies elsewhere.
The problem was that eye tracking requires split second accuracy. And this was the problem for longest time. Because without that you would be looking on super low res image for split second every time you moved your eyes. This was resolved already last year with first demos. It takes time though to put it into device that is full finished product. Pimax already is working on such product and they shown it at the CES demo booth and it works (posted video link earlier)
Moreover you seem to think of FR as way to increase sharpness (which is true, you can do that by increasing resolution of something directly in your eye view say like 4k by 4k in that one point where you look) but you omit the biggest benefit aka reducing GPU work.
Sharpness of image is already very good with GEN2 devices. My Quest 2 sharpness is like watching something between 900p-1080p screen while playing games. Soon 4k per eye shouldn't be an issue on mass scale and the only thing limiting will be GPU of headset or PC.
Pancake lenses are also being worked which solves two issues: sharpness at sides and DOF.
Haven't used my Oculus Rift in a few months. Tried it today, and while it was turned off it drained the battery of my right hand controller only. Second time this happens, I'll have to start taking the batteries off, making it even less likely for me to spontaneously pick it up to play.
Any good games come out since Half Life Alyx? For preference, ones available at the black market of Tortuga, I don't feel like paying premium for a game I might or might not play for six hours.
I looked up the Star Wars VR game, but it isn't cracked yet.
Any good games come out since Half Life Alyx? For preference, ones available at the black market of Tortuga, I don't feel like paying premium for a game I might or might not play for six hours.
I looked up the Star Wars VR game, but it isn't cracked yet.
Perkel
Arcane
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2014
- Messages
- 16,259
Asgard Wrath is another example of "AAA" vr game like Alyx. Pretty nice and has actual gameplay compared to Alyx. There are now ports of HL1 trilogy, Doom3, RTCW into VR. Plaing HL1 trilogy right now and it is awesome.
Generally i don't like "VR" experiences which is why i spend most of my time using VorpX software to convert flat games into VR ones. I spend shitload of time playing Monster Hunter World like that. Unfortunutelly VorpX is paid software and has online check so no way to pirate it or get any free alternative and it is pretty expensive (like 30-40 bucks) bought it years ago and i don't complain it gave me shitload of time to play with older games in VR like Dragon's Dogma and some newer ones too. Though it is not plug and play, you need to tinker a bit to play those games so your milage might vary.
tritosine2k
Erudite
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2010
- Messages
- 1,702
I'm not omitting, I just see some dopey make-believe Pie-in-the-sky stuff , you made a habit of believing.
You need to stop and get some good sources , that tell you about stuff like:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petzval_field_curvature
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