Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Revisiting VtM: Bloodlines

Kev Inkline

(devious)
Patron
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Messages
5,486
A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I'm surprised to see that half of the people with much older registration date act like they belong on ResetEra.
I'll just convince myself that owners of these accounts sold them to NeoFAG refugees.
Unsubscribed, before I lost my faith on Codex completely.

:hero:
You are pretty silly to think there's a simple overarching codex consensus on anything (well, perhaps on FO3), and now that not everyone agrees with you, you run away tail between your legs, classy.

You know, this is the place that harbours both gay furry nazis and catholic conservatives, not to mention the more esoteric folks.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,738
Pathfinder: Wrath
Another one that needs to attend reading comprehension classes.


Who is not reading and not debating now? This is getting juicier and juicier. I didn't say you held those opinions, I just gave them as examples. Voting NO to gay marriage out of spite and fucking over homosexuals so you can feel better about yourself and think you have the moral highground because "muh SJWs preach too much" is so arrogant and gross I don't have words.
 

Goral

Arcane
Patron
The Real Fanboy
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
3,571
Location
Poland
https://www.pcgamesn.com/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-mods

Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines
|6 November 2017
One man's endless quest to fix Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines
By
Robert Zak
vampire.jpg

-
-
0

Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines has grown into something of a legend among PC gamers. You will hear whispers on subreddits about its troubled development and what a technical disaster it was upon release in 2004, even though relatively few people actually played it back then. You will read declarations on RPG forums that it is a masterpiece, perhaps even one of the best games ever made - with unforgettable quests, excellent writing, and diverse character customisation. But are they praising the game as it was or the game as it is now?

Bloodlines is one of many classic PC games that are still worth playing today.

The truth is that Bloodlines was lacking when it launched. It was full of unfinished quests, bugs, unbalanced abilities, and missing areas. Still, something at its heart was able to bewitch a small group of players; they saw in it a foundation on which to build. This band of acolytes devoted themselves to improving the game, and one devotee in particular - chemistry professor Werner Spahl - has spent the past 12 years stitching together Bloodlines with his unofficial patch.

Now in its 9.9 iteration, Spahl’s patch is perhaps better described as a fan’s vision of what Bloodlines could have been were the developers, Troika, given more time. What started as a bug-fixing, technical project in 2005 quickly evolved into something more creative, as Spahl and the community began using scant bits of code, concept art, and rogue files hinting at whole unfinished chunks of Bloodlines to fill in its many blanks. Despite containing new levels, different item placements, and even different characters at crucial plot points, the patch is now deemed so crucial to Bloodlines that it has recently been lumped in with the GOG.com copy of the game.

8_1.jpg


I spoke with Spahl about how he handles the responsibility of resurrecting and managing a game that has grown into a cult classic in the time he has been patching it. “When I was young, I played a lot of text and graphic adventures,” he tells me when I ask why he chose to commit himself to Bloodlines in particular. “With Doom and Half-life, I switched to FPSes, because they let you explore new worlds from a first-person perspective. Bloodlines merged the great quests and worlds of those adventures with the action and graphics of an FPS.”

He goes on to praise Bloodlines’s relatively realistic (but with vampires, natch) urban settings and complete freedom of approach - be it combat, stealth, or seduction - Spahl, like those RPG forum folk I mentioned earlier, sees it as “more or less the best game I’ve ever played.”

A good enough justification, then, to spend over a decade working on it, although Spahl downplays his commitment. “It’s not as big a chunk of my life as it may seem,” he says. “Sometimes I work maybe an hour a day if something new can be restored, but then days or weeks may go by without me doing anything much.”

5_5.jpg


That comment - ‘something new can be restored’ - is oxymoronic, but it captures the tension at the heart of this project. ‘Restoration’ suggests that Spahl and the community are working towards some version of the game as it once was, or at least that they are adding elements that the developers intended to include in the original game, but didn’t due to the fact that it was rushed to release. The reality is that Troika’s intentions were never made entirely clear to Spahl, who reached out to the developers but only gained scarce details about the cut content (it is understandable that they weren’t particularly eager to reminisce about the game that led to the dissolution of their studio a few months after release). So, with little concrete information to go on, Spahl and the community got creative, embellishing and tweaking the existing Bloodlines world with speculative but meticulously thought-out details, and patching it to a healthy, playable state.

One former Troika member who did play a role in the patch was composer Rik Schaffer, who gave Spahl a list of unreleased tracks for the game that he considered to be his finest work. These tracks were not connected to any in-game locations, so it was up to Spahl to add them where he saw fit. Did Troika want these tracks in the original game? Is this now the composer Schaffer imbuing a bit of his personal vision about how he wanted Bloodlines to sound? How much does Spahl’s personal taste - deciding which track to put in which location - dictate the path of the game? The lines between restoration, modding, and patching become increasingly blurred.

Not that Spahl has any qualms about calling the unofficial patch more of a fan project than some noble quest to finish what Troika started. “Of course I’m aware that a lot of our bigger restorations, especially the new maps or quests, are /our/ vision and not that of Troika, if they ever came to a concrete version for those things at all,” he says.

4_7.jpg


The all-new Library level, for example, is based on a few assets in the game files. Bloodlines designer Brian Mitsoda told Spahl that “it was somehow connected to a main character and a Sabbat boss, and was meant to look like the real-world LA library.” On this scant information, one of the community members drove to the LA library, took notes on its layout, and co-designed the new level with Spahl, complete with a lore-friendly quest and a large ritual chamber (another unused asset floating around in the game files). Even the vaguest ideas became a polished, painstakingly created reality in the unofficial patch.

Amidst the thousands of fixes in the patch that have made Bloodlines more palatable, Spahl admits that some tweaks have been a little less graceful. Using concept art for reference he added a rotating turnstile to the entrance of a bar, for example, which many players then struggled to walk through (as, in some cases, did Patty, a quest NPC who is supposed to leave the club in one of her quest endings). His solution was to create a dialogue option with the bartender, asking her to remove the turnstile, which means that players can now choose whether to have it or not; an awkward workaround to a problem that did not need to exist in the first place.

In the early days of the patch, Spahl was persuaded by the community to make humanity loss possible in combat areas. The humanity system has a big effect on dialogue options and your character’s self-control throughout the game, and Spahl’s adjustment proved heavy-handed, resulting in potentially big knock-on effects for the rest of the game. “The reason for this change was to keep it in line with the tabletop game, which is the same reasoning behind some of the deeper Unofficial Patch changes,” he explains, admitting that he “didn’t know any better” at that point. The change was eventually reversed, and a lesson learned.

7_4.jpg


Despite such teething issues, by 2007, Spahl had achieved the mini-miracle of resurrecting a game that seemed doomed to eternal disrepair. It might not have been exactly what the original dev team intended, but it was a pretty good approximation. Not everyone agreed with the poetic license wielded by Spahl and his supporters, however.

A pair of modders, Tessera and Acrimonious, made a ‘True Patch’, declaring it more faithful to the developers’ intentions while aggressively denigrating Spahl’s work. Ironically, players quickly discovered that the True Patch used the very scripts that Spahl had created for his patch, albeit with the restorations and changes stripped out, leading Spahl to claim that they “basically stole his work.” An outcry in the community caused Tessera and Acrimonious to ostensibly make the scripts for a new True patch from scratch, although Spahl suspects that they continued to refer to his own scripts to make their jobs easier. Alas, all is fair in love and modding, where ownership is simply a code of honour rather than an enforceable rule.

Despite the combative rhetoric, Spahl took the discussion onboard, adding a ‘Basic’ version of the patch to the installer focusing mostly on patching rather than additional and edited content. Tessera, meanwhile, hosts the True Patch on his own website (NSFW warning: he is also the creator of a Bloodlines nudity mod, so beware the vampiric breasts plastered all over the site). Over the years, Tessera launched several tirades against what he described as Spahl’s “bastardised” version of the game, writing at length about the sins it allegedly commits against vanilla Bloodlines, the differences between a patch and a mod, and other accusations. A small fraction of players continue to gather around Tessera’s patch, which Spahl insists is “much inferior” and based on a now-outdated version of his own ‘Basic’ patch.

vamp.jpg


It seems silly to take a purist stance on a game that was born tainted. The work of Spahl and the Unofficial Patch community has restored the humanity of a game that was crippled from birth by the ruthless, business-driven side of industry. However, Spahl believes there is still much work to do on Bloodlines. Despite turning his attention to patching what he sees as other broken masterpieces - The Precursors and White Gold, among them - he admits that he “can’t really imagine Bloodlines patching to ever be completely finished.”

There is always a point at which perfectionism veers into obsessiveness; where the net result of another once-over is negligible as some elements improve while others regress, only to later be restored to their previous state. This is Spahl’s journey, and for him to judge when he reaches that critical point. In the meantime, the patch continues to evolve, making Bloodlines as much a fans' creation as the developers'; a fascinating bastardisation that today is more worthy than ever of sinking your teeth into.
 

Kev Inkline

(devious)
Patron
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Messages
5,486
A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I still haven't gotten an answer why people are against what someone does on his free time that affects them no way?

I'll reiterate: it's not like you are forced to install the patch by some evil gaylord spirit.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
Patron
Joined
Jan 12, 2004
Messages
11,843
Location
Black Goat Woods !@#*%&^
Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
To be clear: so you're angry that there is a space for sexual orientation on the character sheet?
Go attend reading comprehension classes.
Seriously, man. It's a simple question, and it cuts to the heart of your self-denial. Ask yourself this question and answer honestly. From your arguments, it seems you must answer "Yes," but being directly confronted with it makes you realize how dumb you sound. I get why you're afraid to admit it. It's OK. We can work through this. Are you or are you not angry at the idea of sexual orientation being on the character sheet?
 

Cael

Arcane
Possibly Retarded
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
22,085
Who is not reading and not debating now? This is getting juicier and juicier. I didn't say you held those opinions, I just gave them as examples. Voting NO to gay marriage out of spite and fucking over homosexuals so you can feel better about yourself and think you have the moral highground because "muh SJWs preach too much" is so arrogant and gross I don't have words.
You insist on arguing from hyperbolic absurdist arguments about things I never said or stated, and insist that I debate you according to that? I got two words for you: Piss. Off.
 

Cael

Arcane
Possibly Retarded
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
22,085
Seriously, man. It's a simple question, and it cuts to the heart of your self-denial. Ask yourself this question and answer honestly. From your arguments, it seems you must answer "Yes," but being directly confronted with it makes you realize how dumb you sound. I get why you're afraid to admit it. It's OK. We can work through this. Are you or are you not angry at the idea of sexual orientation being on the character sheet?
If you read what I wrote, you would already have your answer. Start reading and stop babbling.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,738
Pathfinder: Wrath
You insist on arguing from hyperbolic absurdist arguments about things I never said or stated, and insist that I debate you according to that? I got two words for you: Piss. Off.

LOlolololololOLOlOlolo. This is ridiculous. You are the one who threw absurdist arguments at me and extrapolated whatever you wanted from what I said. You are so obviously hypocritical and it's clear you don't hold yourself to the standards you hold everyone else to.
 

Goral

Arcane
Patron
The Real Fanboy
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
3,571
Location
Poland
I still haven't gotten an answer why people are against what someone does on his free time that affects them no way?
He can do whatever he wants, doesn't mean I can't show my disgust towards his recent "work". And it does affect me because I will have to either seek older versions of the patch (which are harder to find with each year) or not install them at all (or go with Tessera patch) or install it and spend more time on clicking which options I want and which I don't want. On GOG I can't even install a vanilla version of VtMB (there are ways to deal with it but it requires extra work).
 

Cael

Arcane
Possibly Retarded
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
22,085
He can do whatever he wants, doesn't mean I can't show my disgust towards his recent "work". And it does affect me because I will have to either seek older versions of the patch (which are harder to find with each year) or not install them at all (or go with Tessera patch) or install it and spend more time on clicking which options I want and which I don't want. On GOG I can't even install a vanilla version of VtMB (there are ways to deal with it but it requires extra work).
Or just walk away from it altogether. Bloodlines was OK the first couple of times, but it doesn't bear up under repeatitive playthroughs all that well. It is a weakness of the medium in that you can only programme so much in and only so many responses. That is why I will always prefer PnP games.
 

Sizzle

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
2,473
I still haven't gotten an answer why people are against what someone does on his free time that affects them no way?
He can do whatever he wants, doesn't mean I can't show my disgust towards his recent "work". And it does affect me because I will have to either seek older versions of the patch (which are harder to find with each year) or not install them at all (or go with Tessera patch) or install it and spend more time on clicking which options I want and which I don't want. On GOG I can't even install a vanilla version of VtMB (there are ways to deal with it but it requires extra work).

You're so disgusted/threatened by an option at the beginning you can easily choose not to select, that you would go out of your way to seek out an older version, just so you don't have to see (again - optional. As in - your choice) homosexuality in a game that, even unmodded, has homosexuality in it?
 

Kev Inkline

(devious)
Patron
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Messages
5,486
A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Let's get one thing straight, I don't condone Beamdog hamfisting a tranny character into their game, nor Obisidian retracting the silly limerick someone supersensitive thought oppressive to transpeople - but this reaction to an optional part of an optional mod, it just seems disproportionate to me.
 
Joined
Feb 19, 2005
Messages
4,641
Strap Yourselves In Codex+ Now Streaming!
Ok so here's what I'm doing: GOG's installer currently comes with the UP 9.7 integrated, so way before this whole homosexual thing was added.
Just download it before they update it, back it up on an external hardrive or in the cloud and you are set for ever basically.

I actually have tremendous appreciation for Wesps work, but the patch has been done for a long time and all upcoming "improvements" are bound to be completely unnessecary and getting further and furtherr apart from the dev's original creation.

Just backup an older version as don't bother with the updates anyomore, and let the man continue his modding. Where's the problem?
 
Last edited:

Goral

Arcane
Patron
The Real Fanboy
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
3,571
Location
Poland
Changing the subject, does anyone remember "Project Vaulderie"? It was supposed to be Bloodlines remade in Unity engine with multiplayer added, improved graphics, etc. Unfortunately Activision interfered and killed the project.

It looked pretty great:
http://www.projectvaulderie.com/archive/category/news/
Things are moving on nicely, here are the highlights for this Friday’s development blog:



Weapon System
The weapon system has gotten quite a nice treatment, with having the M37, the rest of the pistols and rifles all coded and working as expected. There’s still some work left to do on the melee weapons, but overall we’re happy with the progress.


Map Progress
A lot of progress have been done on the Society of Leopold maps and Empires. Improving the maps usually take a lot of time but they worth the effort. It goes without saying.



Teemu
Teemu insisted on making this blog being less technical for this once, so here are his thoughts on the design part of the project.

Hello everybody!

My name is Teemu Andreas and I work as a UI designer and a visual artist on this project. I thought I would write couple words about the work I have done and my overall thoughts about this project. I’ll try to keep it short because my writing skills aren’t nearly as good as Arthur’s.
When I was asked by Stephen to join him and Arthur on this project I happily agreed. Bloodlines was one of my favorite RPG games I had ever played and I was eager to start developing new visuals for the game. Bloodlines had amazing atmosphere, deep character development and a ton of replayability. It is well known that the development team had a lot on their shoulders when trying to rush the product to meet the deadline. It was also the first game on the brand new engine, Source. As much as I have enjoyed the game, there is many improvements that can be done, enhancing the gameplay even further and pumping some new blood in to this classic. One of these improvements is the UI design.

When we released the first few images of the new UI concept there was a lot of feedback. Some people didn’t care for it at all and some were excited about it. We cannot please everybody but we keep our minds open to ideas and feedback from the community. That being said, the UI concept page is now updated completely, and can be found at the same place as before: http://teemuandreas.com/vaulderieui. One of the major changes to the design is the color scheme. After the first round we experimented with the original Bloodlines color palette and decided to ditch the blue scheme for good. It brought that familiar feel to the design, gave it a lot more contrast and also revealed what was lacking from it.

Second bigger change to the original concept is the addition of a radial quick menu system in the game HUD. This would allow fast access to different disciplines, weapons and items with a click of a mouse. We also talked about implementing a similar time slowing effect as you may have seen in Witcher 2 when using the quick menu, but this only an idea at this point. With the changed color scheme I aimed to minimalize the HUD even further but in exchange to give it a more stylized look. This change can be also seen in the new Discipline icons, made in the spirit of the original ones.
There is a lot of work to be done before we have a finished UI for the game but I can say I’m pleased for the result so far. We have many ideas how to bring these elements alive through animation and subtle effects, but that is something for another blog.

Thank you for the feedback and support!



Remade Weapons
Iraito has done a fantastic work with reworking the models from scratch and having them PBR ready. This week’s weapons were the M37, Severed arm, Fire axe and Glock.









Interface
Teemu has done a lot of fantastic work reworking the interface with the new scheme as mentioned above. Most of the updated UI work can be seen in the link above as well.



Character Sheet
The migration to Unity’s new UI migration has gone quite smoothly, but there are still some issues they have to iron out. The character sheet was one of the first ones to have the pleasure of being reworked for the new UI system.




Misconceptions
There are a few misconceptions which I wish to address as soon as possible. First of all, the previous remakes of Bloodlines done in Source engine was done only by me. There was no Source team. There was no real or long lasting interest from any Source programmer or otherwise, nobody on the Vaulderie team ever worked on Resurgence. Project Vaulderie, on the other hand is still going strong. Does doesn’t necessary means it will eventually get done by tomorrow or next week, but that means it keeps being worked on, whether there are visible outcomes or not. In short, the Source port was doomed to die sooner or later, and I think the length and the same walls being hit over and over speaks for itself. There was never any possible way to achieve every feature that was present in Bloodlines to be also present in Source, mainly because of the limited SDK for modding. Without engine licensing, without full access to the engine code, you can only do so much.



Secondly, there would never be a proper cloth simulation, no new updates from later Source games, in short, there was no solid future for Resurgence. This is when Unity came around and turned everything around. We managed to get done so much under such a short time, which were never managed to be fully done in the Source version for all these years.



There was no real reason for us to stick with Source. As technology moves forward, we too want to implement the best out of everything if possible, to have complete freedom of work, and Unity allows us to achieve those in a short manner and reach the end goal much faster. Since the switch, we can prototype faster than ever, write our own tools to help with development, and we don’t have to worry about any sort of engine limitation. Unity receives updates at a very alarming rate, and with Unity 5 being around the corner, we can’t be more happy to have invested into this engine.
We might give you the impression that it’s not being worked on, lacking gameplay media or any short snippets from time to time, but that should be very obvious by the development blogs we post every other Friday, and rest assured that the project gets constant work done.


Wallpapers
Teemu has created a set of new wallpapers reflecting the new direction for the overall look and feel of the project so far. You can grab them here.









Summary
Progress is going as expected, nearing each time to a playable demo somewhere between this month and next month. These are not the final dates but they are pushing us to have something solid for you guys to try. Might end up either a part of the single player or a multiplayer demo, but the output may vary.

(...)
Teemu has done it again, adding great improvements on the overall HUD.

When you are in combat mode, all the HUD elements tied to it show up. After a short period, only the important ones remain, the rest will fade out.



Here are a few of the HUD elements that show up, with a brief explanation. Note that this will not cover the weapon selection screen as of yet.

 

Liquorice

Educated
Joined
Nov 11, 2017
Messages
140
Forget about faggotry, that fucking door still doesn't open on the first attempt. Now THAT is triggering.

Forget about the door, what about Jack's non sequitur line, and all the other absurd "restored" bits throughout the game that are very clearly only there because of Wesp's compulsive need to use anything he finds in the game files? Mercurio offering me a gun that I'm then forced to refuse is quite a bit more annoying to me than the occasional minor bug.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
Patron
Joined
Jan 12, 2004
Messages
11,843
Location
Black Goat Woods !@#*%&^
Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
If you read what I wrote, you would already have your answer.
Yes, I did and I do. I read you loud and clear. You're irrationally angry, and ashamed of yourself because of it, but too far in denial to admit it, so you hide behind good old "reading comprehension lol" instead of typing a three-letter word that would end the conversation.

I can play that game too. Just read what I wrote and you'll be forced to admit you're wrong. If not, you didn't read well enough! Works great, doesn't it?
 

Cael

Arcane
Possibly Retarded
Joined
Nov 1, 2017
Messages
22,085
Yes, I did and I do. I read you loud and clear. You're irrationally angry, and ashamed of yourself because of it, but too far in denial to admit it, so you hide behind good old "reading comprehension lol" instead of typing a three-letter word that would end the conversation.

I can play that game too. Just read what I wrote and you'll be forced to admit you're wrong. If not, you didn't read well enough! Works great, doesn't it?
Yeah, I thought so. You just deliberately refuse to get what I am saying in order to troll someone whom you think hate homosexuals even when it is clearly stated that it is actually the opposite. You actually don't really care about homosexuals as you claim and just want to get your own gratification by trolling.

People like you are why there is such a big backlash against political correctness in all its forms. I pity the poor homosexuals and other minorities who has to deal with the fallout from the shit YOU create as you happily go around selfishly pleasuring yourself.
 

Wesp5

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2007
Messages
1,953
Wesp5 Please mod in hand grenade

There are already hand grenades in the original game, Nines shows one off and Bach uses some against you, and I made one available in the plus patch long ago. Sadly though, the damage calculation is very weird and it isn't very useful because of that.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom