Revisiting VtM: Bloodlines

[Storyfag]

Please do not add fuel to the fire. You do not know what lurks in GD and is only waiting to come here and wreak havoc...

Iä! Iä! General-Discission! The Black Place with a Thousand Trolls!

 

[Drax]

You guys have thinner skin than a teenage girl. HHR would be proud.

 

[hello friend]

Wow bit of a reaction these last few pages. According to Wesp it was a zero effort change that had been requested by multiple people. Barring autism superpowers, the only people who bother to mod games over a long period of time crave at least a little bit the validation and attention of others. Getting your fix for a super quick job is a no brainer, of course he did.

Also vampires are very gay. If you can seriously contend that faggotry has no place in vtmb after seeing all the bdsm-themed stuff in the game, to take just one example; dude, you're out of your mind.

And calling someone a faggot is no more offensive than calling someone a cracker or a nigger. You don't even have to be a homo to be a faggot, although a lot of them are. If you don't believe that's true, man, you're either wilfully obtuse or you haven't met many homos.

Wesp5 keep your chin up and don't be such a pussy. Hat's off to you for working on this game after all this time and delivering new content.

 

[Lithium Flower]

Gotta love it when posters who usually don't peak their heads out of GD swarm over a thread with the cries of "ASS JAY DUBYA LIBRUL FAGGOT CUCK REDDIT AGENDA" due to an optional feature in an optional version of an optional patch to a game that already is quite open about exploring sexuality and occasional gheyness. I mean, its set in Los Angeles, what else do you expect?

However, there is a valid point to be made against this change based on a few philosophical questions about the patch. Should a patch add extra content not intended by the developers, even if said content increases the player's quality of life? As UP is by far the best (and arguably the only good) option in terms of patching the game, does Wesp have a responsibility to fuck as little with the game's intended form as possible, so that players are not forced to play the broken vanilla game to experience its intended balance/features/content?

Of course, these autists didn't give a fuck about these questions when Wesp added steel claws that dealt aggravated damage to the game or restored the meme song to the tower battle, but GODDAMN do they need to take a stand against the evil homosexual agenda.

Now to his credit, Wesp tried to address these dilemmas by splitting his patch into the Basic and Plus versions, but other questions still remain. Is the Plus Patch Troika's restored vision with a few bells and whistles or is it Wesp's vision of the game? What is the standard for changes that make it into the plus patch? Because some of the changes are clearly more fitting and reasonable than others. For example, the Aug no longer does pitifully low damage, which is a reasonable change, but the aforementioned aggravated claws (remember that aggravated damage = magic and IIRC fire and these are just the same mundane claws Grout's ghouls use) are probably not so reasonable. However, a person cannot play a version of the patch that has the former change without it being contaminated, so to speak, by the inclusion of the latter.

Now, the inclusion of a homosexual background is harmless compared to the above, but I believe it would help to have a something like a vision statement for what the Plus Patch is and should be. That would ideally both silence the people who complain about changes that deviate from Troika's vision every other release (and I would probably count myself among them) while setting a standard that the community could hold Wesp up to.

 

[Storyfag]

Ideally, there should be three versions of the patch.

- Basic, with just bugfixes.
- Restored, with restored content.
- Plus, with new levels/quests/gayness/whatevs

But I'm not going to force that idea down Wesp's throat.

 

[Mastermind]

VtM games are centered around story. There shouldn't be much focus on combat. So that's a tricky balance that Bloodlines somewhat managed to pull off- how to make you feel like a powerful vampire without making gameplay too combat-centric. Even in the PnP, actual combat is kind of disruptive. There are only so many times before being ambushed by a Sabbat war party gets old after all.

Yes, vampires have enemies, including other vampires. But it would be absurd if a WoD vampire spends every night fighting werewolves, kuejin and Hunters.

So a VtM gameplay needs to be focused around things like stealth, gathering information, politicking (c&c), exploration.

wrong, combat (or stealth for a couple of clans) is by far the biggest time sink in bloodlines. obv all those other things need to be in it to make a well rounded RPG but the combat cannot be ignored or even relegated to second tier status.

 

[aweigh]

Wesp5

Any codexer who is racist or homophobic is not a true codexer and their complaints don't count. As long as you keep doing a normal patch and a modded patch you will be doing God's work.

 

[fantadomat]

Didn't read what the drama is about,still:

 

[Drax]

That's luciferist.

Edit. F U U ruin me joke

 

[Storyfag]

Didn't read what the drama is about,still:

But why would you burn the symbol of the covenant between Heaven and Earth?

 

[fantadomat]

Didn't read what the drama is about,still:

But why would you burn the symbol of the covenant between Heaven and Earth?

It is corrupted mate,burn it with divine zeal!

 

[Goral]

My thoughts exactly. I came here with that suggestion because I had the very same feeling that someone is trying to convince me to do something that most people might not want!

How ironic is that :D.

 

[Lambach]

On the bright side, this is the most action this thread has gotten in a long time. Here, let me help grow it even more: Humanity has risen!

You're welcome.

 

[Liquorice]

Ideally, there should be three versions of the patch.

- Basic, with just bugfixes.
- Restored, with restored content.
- Plus, with new levels/quests/gayness/whatevs

But I'm not going to force that idea down Wesp's throat.

I think this is a great idea. Except the bit about not forcing it down his throat.

To add to it, I would only include in 'restored' the stuff that needs minimal effort to fit into the game, as opposed to clearly unfinished content that requires significant creative input from the modder to function and make sense in context, which should, IMO, go into 'plus' along with all the OC donut steel™ and content that was, as Wesp himself admitted, restored just for the sake of restoration - Jack's - what, second? - nonsensical line about "stepping outside" being a prime example. I suppose that one would rank among the changes that require creative input to work, except, of course, it hasn't received any.

TL;DR 'restored' - inexplicably cut from the release, works perfectly well; 'plus' - very understandably cut or not originally present in the game at all.

But who am I kidding, this probably isn't going to happen(especially now that Wesp's been scared away from this dark and intolerant place). I imagine it would be quite a pain in the ass to sort through and categorize all the changes. Would it?

 

[gaussgunner]

Why does is sound like an insult to you? Are you a faggot?

No, but I'm not a native English speaker either and in German the translation of "faggot" would be an insult compared to "gay".

It depends. Any word for "gay" can be a grave insult. No matter which word you use, or how, you're bound to offend some faggot on the internet in 2017.

 

[Old One]

In English a faggot (or fagot) is also a bundle of burning sticks. I've even heard it used to to refer to a cigar or cigarette (which is, after all, a bundle of tobacco). Yes, you can smoke a fag.

faggot
(ˈfæɡət) or
fagot
n
1. a bundle of sticks or twigs, esp when bound together and used as fuel
2. (Metallurgy) a bundle of iron bars, esp a box formed by four pieces of wrought iron and filled with scrap to be forged into wrought iron
3. (Cookery) a ball of chopped meat, usually pork liver, bound with herbs and bread and eaten fried
4. a bundle of anything

vb (tr)
5. to collect into a bundle or bundles
6. (Knitting & Sewing) needlework to do faggoting on (a garment, piece of cloth, etc)

[C14: from Old French, perhaps from Greek phakelos bundle]

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/faggot

 

[agentorange]

 

[Lacrymas]

People are surprised at vampire homosexuality? When one of the first books dealing with the modern version of vampires is literally about lesbians? Also, Tim Cain. I've read somewhere that Ash Rivers and Isaac were lovers at one point, or that Isaac was in love with Ash, but I've never been able to pick up on that, so it may just be a theory. I think Tommy is bi, I seem to recall being able to seduce him with a female char as well. It's also curious how anti-gay people are opposed to gay vampires, when vampires represent self-absorbed decadence and moral failing, the very same things they accuse gays of. The vampires in VtM aren't supposed to be "good people", that's ludicrous.

 

[Cael]

People are surprised at vampire homosexuality? When one of the first books dealing with the modern version of vampires is literally about lesbians? Also, Tim Cain. I've read somewhere that Ash Rivers and Isaac were lovers at one point, or that Isaac was in love with Ash, but I've never been able to pick up on that, so it may just be a theory. I think Tommy is bi, I seem to recall being able to seduce him with a female char as well. It's also curious how anti-gay people are opposed to gay vampires, when vampires represent self-absorbed decadence and moral failing, the very same things they accuse gays of. The vampires in VtM aren't supposed to be "good people", that's ludicrous.

That is where you "poor me" self-described victims get it wrong. Most of what you call anti-homosexuals really don't give a rat's arse what you idiots do in the privacy of your own bedroom. We are just sick of you throwing it out there every chance you get. It is not healthy or normal to announce to perfect strangers less than 5 minutes after meeting them that you are homosexual, just as it is not healthy for heterosexuals to announce their sexual orientation to perfect strangers within that 5 minutes.
We also are sick and tired of the fact you idiots push it into every facet of everything you can lay your hands on and claim it is reality. No. Reality is that you make up less than 3% of the population so stop trying to insert yourself into 100% of games.
Lastly, we are also sick of the fact you hold us responsible for bad things that happened to homosexuals years ago, before some of us were even alive. I absolutely REFUSE to take responsibility for something that someone else somewhere and sometime in history did. I will only take responsiblity for what *I* have done. Trying to hold me responsible for something that happened in a nation half way around the world 40 years ago is a surefire way to ensure that I oppose your agenda till the end of time.

 

[Cael]

Oh wow look here, a scholar! Thank you for explaining me things that I can't understand, oh mighty one.

Now, I claim that undead humanoids that stay "alive" due to evil, unearthly powers can do any form of sexual act they deem interesting simply because they can - while the dude that "asked me to prove it" implies that they follow some moral code that wouldn't allow them to apparently have gay sex specifically because "ew that's degenerate"... while simultaneously some of them decapitate human bodies and drink blood from their eye sockets or whatever.
Why should I prove my point and not he as his makes less sense? Who gives a fuck if he "asked me to prove it"? Did he provide any proof of his claims in the first place and I have to provide mine? What are we doing here, writing a paper for some scientific magazine?

The fact that you show disdain for scholarly pursuits explains perfectly why you are what you are: a person who throws crap everywhere and hope it sticks.
You made the claim that the game has openness. He asked you to prove it. He claimed nothing nor implied anything. You, however, did.
Also, you might want to look up something called "null hypothesis".

 

[Delterius]

If there's one thing I ~learned from the Codex~ is that abuse and BDSM turn people gay. If that is the case, Bloodlines and White Wolf not only feature gay people -- they are like factories of gayness.

 

[Lacrymas]

That is where you "poor me" self-described victims get it wrong. Most of what you call anti-homosexuals really don't give a rat's arse what you idiots do in the privacy of your own bedroom. We are just sick of you throwing it out there every chance you get. It is not healthy or normal to announce to perfect strangers less than 5 minutes after meeting them that you are homosexual, just as it is not healthy for heterosexuals to announce their sexual orientation to perfect strangers within that 5 minutes.
We also are sick and tired of the fact you idiots push it into every facet of everything you can lay your hands on and claim it is reality. No. Reality is that you make up less than 3% of the population so stop trying to insert yourself into 100% of games.
Lastly, we are also sick of the fact you hold us responsible for bad things that happened to homosexuals years ago, before some of us were even alive. I absolutely REFUSE to take responsibility for something that someone else somewhere and sometime in history did. I will only take responsiblity for what *I* have done. Trying to hold me responsible for something that happened in a nation half way around the world 40 years ago is a surefire way to ensure that I oppose your agenda till the end of time.

I'm not gay. Your little tirade also has nothing to do with what I said, so I think you should look in the mirror for the people who "throw it in your face in the first 5 minutes without provocation".

 

[Lambach]

This is the sort of drawing that only someone who is triggered about being exposed as a Shillary-supporting SJW nu-male Trump-hating degenerate Mudslime goy feminazi JIDF shill cuck from Tumblr would make and post.

 

[Kev Inkline]

People are debating whether or not the original source material had homosexual tendencies and whether or not there's a popular demand for gay vampire backgrounds - that's all moot and you all are mistaken. Guess what, this is one man's hobby and he can do whatever he pleases with it.

You do not need to justify your choices, Wesp5, if you want to add an assbandit background, just own up your choice and say you wanted it to implement it because it felt good inside. The rest of you, you do not need to install this version of the patch and you might be eventually better off doing healthier things than playing crpgs, like strolling through sunny meadows, or asking a next door girl out for a coffee (or a guy if you are repressed, it's ok).


Btw, which party iin the hypothesis testing controversy do you guys side with - Fisher's or Neyman-Pearson's?
http://stats.org.uk/statistical-inference/Lenhard2006.pdf

 

[Lacrymas]

I'll just leave this here for the "source material debate" - http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Dracon
http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Sascha_Vykos