Revisiting VtM: Bloodlines

[Excidium II]

You honestly think clan caricatures like Damsel, Nines, VV or Lacroix have memorable writing?

 

[ArchAngel]

You honestly think clan caricatures like Damsel, Nines, VV or Lacroix have memorable writing?

No, he said they are memorable characters.

 

[Excidium II]

Yeah, and like I said in the post he quotes it's because of the strong VtM source material and the execellent voice acting injecting a measure of personality into them.

 

[Prime Junta]

You honestly think clan caricatures like Damsel, Nines, VV or Lacroix have memorable writing?

I remember them very clearly although it's been 12 years since I played the game, so... yes. Duh.

Also, everything's relative -- by vidya game standards they are fantastic, in a very small, select class of games that include... I dunno, Planescape: Torment and a few others.

By film or literary standards, they would still be highly competent noir characters.

 

[Prime Junta]

Yeah, and like I said in the post he quotes it's because of the strong VtM source material and the execellent voice acting injecting a measure of personality into them.

The strong VtM source material is extremely important of course. Bad writers could have fucked them up big-time though -- think of how they'd sound if the fine folks at Beamdog had written this for example.

 

[Excidium II]

I remember them because of the voice acting more than Mitsoda's shitty writing. The characters look like their entire concept was done by reading their clan description of the rulebook.

 

[Prime Junta]

I remember them because of the voice acting more than Mitsoda's shitty writing. The characters look like their entire concept was doen by reading their clan description of the rulebook.

Well, we already knew that you're a fucking idiot with shit taste, so no surprises there.

 

[Excidium II]

You two go read grotnisk's CYOA and raise your standards for VtM writing a bit.

Well, we already knew that you're a fucking idiot with shit taste, so no surprises there.

Aren't you the famous PoE apologist?

 

[Prime Junta]

Whooooaaa haha the Malk mansion... that was wack! Best level so far. Still pretty linear and those tapes were a fairly clichéd way of telling the story but man, it was fun. Great writing, great voice acting, great buildup to the seriously spooky part at the end where those mannequins kept gaslighting me.

Also finally put points into firearms and switched to the shotgun to clear out those nasty burning experimental subjects at the end. Otherwise it was just stealth-killing and FFFFFFest.

Anyway that was rad.

 

[Excidium II]

The tapes are cliché (thought the device wasn't as abused before Biocock) but the malk primogen is a p. interesting character. He's genuinely disturbed and creepy as opposed to zany lel fishmalking that I expected from the overall writing. Wouldn't have minded more of him.

 

[Prime Junta]

Whoa, I got uppity with LaCroix again and he chucked me out on my ass, with no main quest continuation. That was unexpected. Went to the Anarchs with my intel as well, but no dice there either. Do I have to go groveling back to him to get it, or am I genuinely fucked (i.e., back-to-previous-save-time?)

If so, nice. That's courageous writing from the designers.

Edit: groveling it was; the story continues...

 

[Lacrymas]

Well, I thought it suited the Malkavian primogen. He gave off an air of liking the sound of his own voice, so I wouldn't put it past him to record it.

 

[Beautiful Clown Painting]

Excidium, do you realize that in every thread, you just trash everything? Do you really think that a constant contrarian stance makes you appear like a great esthet instead of a crazy clueless sociopath? Just asking, no need to answer, bro.

 

[Excidium II]

I don't remember that, but I guess you should be able to go back? The times I recall saying no to him he just sighed and used dominate. Lacroix has no subtlety.

 

[Excidium II]

Excidium, do you realize that in every thread, you just trash everything? Do you really think that a constant contrarian stance makes you appear like a great esthet instead of a crazy clueless sociopath? Just asking, no need to answer, bro.

Trash everything? ITT I've only thrashed the writing, because it does mostly suck yet people keep giving it great praise, being unable to differentiate the power of the source material from the work done with it.

There's no point in praising the art direction, the soundtrack, the voice acting, etc because everyone knows those are great.

 

[Beautiful Clown Painting]

It's what you think. For instance, I could tell you that the art direction is crap (which is not the case, I agree), but you are absolutely projecting only negativity, believing that everyone has the same tastes as you (for the most part, I do have the same tastes as you).

 

[Excidium II]

Are you implying my posts contain my opinion?

 

[Lacrymas]

Excidium is actually right in this, the interesting part of VtM:B's writing is the source material. They didn't do anything novel with it, they just used it and surprise, surprise - good source material, good end product. Some of the writing is good on its own, like Deb of Night, Jack, Lily, Malk primogen, maybe Vandal, maybe Jeanette/Therese. The other characters are mostly stereotypical clan members that do stereotypical things (Strauss, LaCroix, Andrei, Ming, Bach, The Giovanni, Garry(?)) or don't go anywhere (Ash, Andrei, The Giovanni, The Bishop, Nines). The serial killer character had potential, but it kinda ends disappointingly "my family won't like it!!!!" or some such crap. VV also had ...attributes. Surprisingly, your character was the one with the most characterization and change.

Not to mention that the entire thing doesn't go anywhere because they rushed it out the door. VtM:B's a good game though and the world needs a new good one (hint, hint Paradox).

EDIT: I'd even say that VtM:R's writing was somewhat better than B's , at least between Anezka and Christoff. It was kinda like a Shakespearean play

 

[Prime Junta]

I've only thrashed the writing, because it does mostly suck yet people keep giving it great praise, being unable to differentiate the power of the source material from the work done with it.

Smiling Jack is in the sourcebook, but his dialog isn't, and his dialog fucking rocks.

Bit parts like Fat Larry, Vandal (from the blood bank), Lily, or Heather Poe aren't in the source material, yet they're fully-fleshed, relatable, and realistic characters.

I can think of a number of explanations for your trash talk on this thread, and none of them reflect particularly well on you. Could be weaksauce trolling. Could be you dislike Mitsoda (his wife's politics, maybe?) and are unable to give him credit where credit is due. Could be that you're genuinely too stupid to be able to tell. Could you're reflexively disliking something because I like it and you don't like me. All of these are shit reasons. 'Cuz the one you're advancing -- that the writing is actually shit and everything good about it comes from the source material -- is just hilariously wrong.

 

[Beautiful Clown Painting]

Nevertheless, Bloodlines is one of the greatest RPG ever. For me, in recent times, only New Vegas came close to its brilliance.

 

[Excidium II]

Would only care for a new game if it properly realizes the setting, more sandbox in how it plays. Just steal grotsnik's CYOA FFS.

I've only thrashed the writing, because it does mostly suck yet people keep giving it great praise, being unable to differentiate the power of the source material from the work done with it.

Smiling Jack is in the sourcebook, but his dialog isn't, and his dialog fucking rocks.

Bit parts like Fat Larry, Vandal (from the blood bank), Lily, or Heather Poe aren't in the source material, yet they're fully-fleshed, relatable, and realistic characters.

I can think of a number of explanations for your trash talk on this thread, and none of them reflect particularly well on you. Could be weaksauce trolling. Could be you dislike Mitsoda (his wife's politics, maybe?) and are unable to give him credit where credit is due. Could be that you're genuinely too stupid to be able to tell. Could you're reflexively disliking something because I like it and you don't like me. All of these are shit reasons. 'Cuz the one you're advancing -- that the writing is actually shit and everything good about it comes from the source material -- is just hilariously wrong.

Passable writing. Excellent voice acting. This is tiring.

 

[Prime Junta]

Oh go fuck yourself Excidium. Which game has better writing anyway?

 

[Excidium II]

Planet Escape Tournament, New Vegas, BaK, SR Dragonfall/Ping Pong. Alpha Protocol is also one game that does a similar style of conversation but way more masterfully, Mitsoda worked on that one oddly enough, but not sure how much of his work remained.

Also AoD I guess? Haven't played since Teron demo.

Also² lol I've been complaining about VTMBs writing long before Mitsodas commited professional suicide.

 

[Beautiful Clown Painting]

Stop being a crazy old woman raging against Bach in the subway, screaming "Everything is shit, shit, shit".
You're more clever than that.

 

[Prime Junta]

Planet Escape Tournament, New Vegas, BaK, SR Dragonfall/Ping Pong. Alpha Protocol is also one game that does a similar style of conversation but way more masterfully, Mitsoda worked on that one oddly enough, but not sure how much of his work remained.

Also AoD I guess? Haven't played since Teron demo.

Also lol I've been complaining about VTMBs writing long before Mitsodas commited professional suicide.

About PS:T, yeah, that is on the same level, although it has different strengths -- the dialog isn't anywhere near as fluid or well-written for example. Amusing example though, as a lot of what makes PS:T great is also derived straight from the incredibly rich source materials.

New Vegas is very good but clealry not on the same level. I can't think of a single character even close to as memorable as even many of the bit players in Bloodlines.

Haven't played BaK or Alpha Protocol, so no comment on those.

Dragonfall is okay but not even close to Bloodlines. I just replayed it actually, so it's fresh in my mind. You've got lots ponderous monologues, characters telling their life stories in excruciating detail as you pump them for more information, and so on. As to the bit parts... come on man. Are you seriously saying that Altüg or Gunari Mettbach or Zaak Flash etcetera are even close to Fat Larry, Vandal, Rosa? With a straight face?