Revisiting VtM: Bloodlines

[Vibalist]

thats a big nope from me right there

 

[Fargus]

50 year old cop Mercurio and korean chink Therese.

 

[NecroLord]

50 year old cop Mercurio and korean chink Therese.

I think Mercurio is actually almost 60.
It's the vampire blood he gets fed with that keeps him fresh.

 

[ds]

I really don't understand what's wrong with the original graphics. They are good enough to provide the immersion sought.

I completely agree. Upscaling original textures by AI is fine for people who need this, although those mods crash a lot, but why completely change e.g. poster and pictures? That's not what a HD mod should be about!

Even faithfully upscaled textures that 100% match the originals will often visibly contrast with the still lower resolution meshes, effects and animations. In a way it can actually make the game look older compared to the original where you might stop noticing the lower texture resolution after getting used to it whereas the dissonance of high resolution textures with low poly models remains noticeable. It's a similar effect to 1080p remasters of old TV series where what used to be rocks are now clearly paper props.

And I'm not even saying that this means you shouldn't use upscaled textures (I often use them myself) but its worth keeping this in mind instead of blindly following a bigger = better mindset. Heck, it might even be a desirable effect when replaying your old favorites.

 

[Nikanuur]

Even faithfully upscaled textures that 100% match the originals will often visibly contrast with the still lower resolution meshes, effects and animations. In a way it can actually make the game look older compared to the original where you might stop noticing the lower texture resolution after getting used to it whereas the dissonance of high resolution textures with low poly models remains noticeable. It's a similar effect to 1080p remasters of old TV series where what used to be rocks are now clearly paper props.

And I'm not even saying that this means you shouldn't use upscaled textures (I often use them myself) but its worth keeping this in mind instead of blindly following a bigger = better mindset. Heck, it might even be a desirable effect when replaying your old favorites.

I too agree. The game has aged rather well, and at any rate, trying to modernize some of its parts... I feel it's as if the game were a good bread, and someone added several layers of butter to it, sprinkled it with sugar, and presented it as a cake. Sure, skills were used and all, but it inevitably falls flat, with the modernized parts sticking out sorely.

Forsooth, with HD textures, the cake is a lie yet again.

Btw, my attempt to reshade the game into kind of an SVGA look came, obviously, from nostalgia. I believe it's 'an allowed' attempt because it doesn't follow that bigger=better blind mindset, but goes at it the other way around as in making the game look even older. Not towards the horribly angular 3D beginnings, but towards the beloved SVGA adventures, or Blood FPS, that kind of stuff. I understand that some would find it ugly all the same, but at the very least, the idea doesn't try to build that fake cake at the expense of the game's initial charm.

 

[Old One]

I made a simple Reshade profile that made the shadows darker so vampire abilities that allowed you to see things in the dark became more valuable.

 

[Nikanuur]

I made a simple Reshade profile that made the shadows darker so vampire abilities that allowed you to see things in the dark became more valuable.

Nice!

Since we compare our dicks here with ReShades, I post two more. Have been working on those for the last two days. I mean it in a friendly way, your dick is cool for sure!

Visual Novel Cel-Shaded VtM:B

Toggleable Flashlight (ReShade based)

 

[Infinitron]

Wesp5 uploaded a bunch of stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@wesp5/videos

 

[La vie sexuelle]

Wesp5 uploaded a bunch of stuff: https://www.youtube.com/@wesp5/videos

There was animations in character creator. Why they removed that?

 

[Skinwalker]

Just hit a minor lore inconsistency (unless I'm missing something):

Spoiler

Thin-bloods aren't supposed to be able to sire; that's what makes them thin-bloods. Yet Lily sired E, even though Lily is by her admission, and according to her German sire, also a thin-blood. What's the deal with that? Is she just confused, and not a thin-blood? If so, then how come her sire just dumped her there?

14th generation thinbloods can still sire, but 15th generation ones cannot, because no vampire can have more than 13 generations between him/herself and Cain.

 

[Infinitron]

https://www.nexusmods.com/vampirebloodlines/mods/307

 

[Skinwalker]

Just hit a minor lore inconsistency (unless I'm missing something):

Spoiler

Thin-bloods aren't supposed to be able to sire; that's what makes them thin-bloods. Yet Lily sired E, even though Lily is by her admission, and according to her German sire, also a thin-blood. What's the deal with that? Is she just confused, and not a thin-blood? If so, then how come her sire just dumped her there?

14th generation thinbloods can still sire, but 15th generation ones cannot, because no vampire can have more than 13 generations between him/herself and Cain.

I might be mistaken here a little bit, I think 14th generation vampires have a 50% chance of being thinbloods, and the half which isn't thinblooded can still sire, but the half which is thinblooded cannot. 15th generation vampires have a 100% chance of being thinbloods, making them the final generation. Also, thinbloods can occur at any generation, but the ones above gen-14 are vanishingly rare.

Plus, I remember reading about a Tremere blood ritual that can temporarily raise (or lower) another vampire's generation, to reduce (or increase) their power. If this ritual ever causes a vampire's generation to go up to 16 or higher, that vampire instantly dies, because a 16th generation vampire cannot exist.

"Math!" - Count Chocula, or whatever that muppet is.

 

[SixDead]

Just want to share cool moment I had right now, playing for the 1st time.

I came to fight with the China-man vampire, I didn't invest in melee and suck in combat, spent all my blood and bullets on him, he had about 25% of health, and so did I.

I was sneacking from him, thought I'm fucked, but then BAM! I lost control on my character, and he ran out from the hiding and killed the motherfucker on his own!

It was a realy fun moment, thank you for reading my post.

 

[Storyfag]

Lifesaving frenzy, eh? Happens, happens.

 

[Ivan]

China-man vampire,

 

[Twiglard]

So in Bloodlines playing as a nozzie, is it normal that I can avoid getting masquerade violations from people on the sidewalk by walking in the middle of the street and not stopping? No stealth, no sewer usage. Just walking.

(the other threads are dead so posting here)

 

[Harthwain]

So in Bloodlines playing as a nozzie, is it normal that I can avoid getting masquerade violations from people on the sidewalk by walking in the middle of the street and not stopping? No stealth, no sewer usage. Just walking.

Yes. As long as you don't get too close (read: bump into someone) you will be fine. No real reason to use sewers as Nosferatu.

 

[SixDead]

So in Bloodlines playing as a nozzie, is it normal that I can avoid getting masquerade violations from people on the sidewalk by walking in the middle of the street and not stopping? No stealth, no sewer usage. Just walking.

(the other threads are dead so posting here)

Even when someone sees you and runs away in panic, this is not masquerade violation. You get it only when several people see you.

 

[Demo.Graph]

playing as a nozzie, is it normal that I can avoid getting masquerade violations from people on the sidewalk?

Have you been in Cali lately? They probably think that you have a bad case of mammary surgery or something.

 

[SixDead]

>Hobo saw you eating a rat
>Police comes and starts shooting you

 

[ERYFKRAD]

>Hobo saw you eating a rat
>Police comes and starts shooting you

Well yes, you're threatening the hobo's source of food.

 

[Twiglard]

Wesp5 what do you think about the feasibility of using something like rp_nycity (or a version made from scratch) for a standalone fan sequel? Here's a timestamped video. It's long but you can see various locales if you seek around a bit for a minute or two.





They're using color and lighting so appropriately for an urban fantasy game. Not only are the looks very realistic for the tech being used (see below), but they also match Bloodlines' focus on lighting and vibe as well as its specific art direction.

The map uses very little light sources. You can see that almost all lighting is per-vertex (looking as emitted by the texture itself, with no glow on outside objects) giving it good performance on old hardware but also making what they've managed to achieve more impressive.

One problem with Bloodlines is the poor tooling and proprietary data formats. There are things like animations and lip sync that are incompatible with Source's tools due to being based on an alpha version of HL2 rather than the open-source Source engine used in HL2:Ep2 or later. Another is scripting. Without very good reversers creating more involved scripted content for Bloodlines is limited to non-extensible ad-hoc Python integration done by Troika unlike modifying the client library (in Quake it was called gamex86.dll) and raising engine model and quest limits.

Making a prototype RPG system loosely based on VtM is easier given that PnP rulesets aren't copyrightable per se according to the US and EU laws.

As for the lore, Bloodlines uses very little WoD lore and arguably it's better for it as the deep lore and metaplot stuff is often needlessly complicated and retarded or autistic in its specific details.

Some relevant things are copyrighted or trademarked (characters, proper nouns, lore) but there's a lot of vampire lore common to folk legends, IPs like Anne Rice's, VtM, True Blood (and its novels), horror movies, gothic movies and aesthetics, grindhouse/exploitation films...

Implementing the character sheet requires familiarity with the Source engine but in itself is rather trivial. Skillchecks are trivial to implement then. Things like weapon accuracy slightly less so, but Troika's implementation isn't particularly sophisticated either. Things like enemy stagger etc. are similarly doable.

Since you're already making Prelude 2 — beyond a certain point it's more feasible to implement all the initial burden and actually save development effort by taking advantage of better tooling.

As for me I'm already working on a game project written with OpenGL and very few external libraries but am already regretting using the isometric projection and Fallout 1-style low-detail baked sprites due to being unable to achieve the amount of immersion of Bloodlines.

Shit sucks, we need better games than all the current slop.

 

[Wesp5]

Wesp5 what do you think about the feasibility of using something like rp_nycity (or a version made from scratch) for a standalone fan sequel?

Wow, I'm really impressed that a single mapper made something like this! I assume that Garry's Mod is still using the Source or Source 2 engine? He mentions a vmf file which he will not share though.

One problem with Bloodlines is the poor tooling and proprietary data formats. There are things like animations and lip sync that are incompatible with Source's tools due to being based on an alpha version of HL2 rather than the open-source Source engine used in HL2:Ep2 or later. Another is scripting. Without very good reversers creating more involved scripted content for Bloodlines is limited to non-extensible ad-hoc Python integration done by Troika unlike modifying the client library (in Quake it was called gamex86.dll) and raising engine model and quest limits.

While this might indeed be a problem for professional game designers, especially the simple to edit Python integration is the main reason why my patch and the other Bloodlines mods were possible in the first place. I'm no professional programmer and the same is valid for EntenSchreck and most of the other modders I know, so we wouldn't be a able to create a scripting system combing maps, stats, dialogues and everything we would need to create a RPG from scratch!

Implementing the character sheet requires familiarity with the Source engine but in itself is rather trivial. Skillchecks are trivial to implement then.

I don't really believe that as I can't remember a mod for HL2 that has ever done something like this.

Since you're already making Prelude 2 — beyond a certain point it's more feasible to implement all the initial burden and actually save development effort by taking advantage of better tooling.

Prelude 2 is almost finished and will be released at the 20th anniversary of Bloodlines !

As for me I'm already working on a game project written with OpenGL and very few external libraries but am already regretting using the isometric projection and Fallout 1-style low-detail baked sprites due to being unable to achieve the amount of immersion of Bloodlines.

Yeah, I'm a first person view guy myself and isometric RPGs never interested me at all.

Shit sucks, we need better games than all the current slop.

I completely agree with that though !

 

[NecroLord]

>Hobo saw you eating a rat
>Police comes and starts shooting you

Tough being a Nosferatu.

 

[SixDead]

>Hobo saw you eating a rat
>Police comes and starts shooting you

Tough being a Nosferatu.

I was playing as Tremere chick.

But yeah, my Nosferatu run was sad, because I couldn't get laid. Whу Imalia didn't reward me with tender nosferatu sex for doing work for her? We are outcasts, we should stick together and be loyal to our kin.