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Arkane PREY - Arkane's immersive coffee cup transformation sim - now with Mooncrash roguelike mode DLC

Ash

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I am now happy with Prey, for the most part. Thanks to the mod "Prey for Death 2". :salute: :salute: :salute:

https://www.nexusmods.com/prey2017/mods/63
Cool gameplay changes, those new weapon models look like piss though.

They do, approximately three of them, but shitty weapons better than no weapons. It's not a huge deal if you aren't a flamboyant beta boy that values graphics over gameplay.

That mod looks like a total mixed bag. Saving changes are BASED, as are the solar storms, but then there's dumb bullshit like repeatable bounty quests and a bunch of new useless weapons.

If this mod was JUST the alternate dimension stuff, the save system, and the solar storms, plus some of the changes from the PREY Corebalance mod, it would be kino. Right now it's just kinda meh.

Also, it's "HARDCORE" but doesn't fix some of the more glaring exploits in the game (like infinite health/psi from water fountains).

Repeatable bounty quests are kind of a non-factor. It's a tiny thing. It is 0.5% of the mod. I did two of them in my pt, and only out of necessity (difficulty is high, need power).

New weapons aren't useless, but very much needed. Especially against the absolute onslaught of mean enemies you must face. Some aren't executed great for sure, but none are notably overpowered (that I found...explosive shotgun sounds concerning but i never found that one), and only a couple useless. Useless weapons being a staple in classic gaming anyway. Now there's like 20 weapons as a result of the modders efforts. Originally, THREE guns and three supporting tools (stun/gloo/wrench). The end result could be executed better but it's not terrible, and almost anything is better than the pathetic vanilla offering.
There are many things new weapons result in, now pay attention: replayability is increased significantly, the weapon modding system is as a result more interesting and the inherent value of weapon mods increased, ammo and inventory management is more involved, combat variety significantly increased, involvement of the game's damage types and enemy weaknesses is highlighted further instead of just spamming shotgun and kinectic blast like vanilla...I can't stress how much better this mod makes the admirable but ultimately MEDIOCRE Prey.

Alt dimension stuff doesn't exist. Thankfully.

The water fountain issue is addressed. As both my review and the changelog states, all water is irradiated. This has far-reaching effect. Radiation poisoning status slows movement speed among other afflictions you absolutely dont want. Anti-radiation pills can only be fabricated so many times thanks to the GLORY of fab licences. Even with licenses available, recycling resources are more precious (you'll want to use them for ammo, health, armor, grenades etc instead). So yeah, the water fountain issue is, for the most part, fixed. It's still spammable (take the loss of a rad pill and spam it to 100 health) but to a much lesser, finite degree.

One of the most significant things about the mod you failed to comment on is the new enemy design: new enemy types, higher enemy count + respawn rates, and higher tier of enemy threat (a tier 3 introduced, essentially). This turns it into a legitimate game of old school proportions instead of the casual shitfest for retards that the original game is, where most of the time is spent swatting flies, recycling junk you don't need, and nothing is really a challenge.

Anyway, try to not have a knee-jerk reaction without actually playing it. It's a good mod, far more than I ever expected for Prey, and saved the game for me. I would have probably never touched the game again if it weren't for its existence. It's likely too hardcore for most of you lot though. In an ideal world you would all be jumping at this mod like ravenous savages ready to consume, but people are simply happy with mediocrity these days. It is what it is.
 
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Tweed

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There's absolutely no "experience" or "skill" needed for Prey's semblance of challenge to break and fold shortly after the tutorial area.
No, there is. I don't think you realize the gulf of difference between a player who tries to play Prey like an action shooter (especially if unskilled at such) vs. a player who can quickly internalize stat-driven features of combat. Prey's combat can actually be rather difficult if you just try to run and gun, as enemies have poorly telegraphed attacks that can kill you instantaneously, however if you understand the systems interactions from various tools in your arsenal you can completely declaw enemies and dispatch them easily.

For example, the GLOO gun is capable of stunning most Typhon and grants bonus damage for breaking enemies out of GLOO, but player movement is greatly slowed while firing. This means than phantoms soft counter the GLOO gun with nearly undodgeable melee swipes and projectiles, despite also being susceptible to GLOO stun (at a slow rate). The better strategy for phantoms is the stun gun (found later in the Hardware Labs unless you do some vertical exploration in the Neuromod Division), or using explosive canisters/charged wrench hits from stealth to put them in a chain knockdown state. The wrench itself is substantially more effective when charged, as it drains the same amount of stamina for double the damage along with the knockdown effect. Players who try to GLOO and swing wildly like it's BioShock's "zap em and whack em" based on lessons learned from the mimics will get owned by their first phantom in the lobby, let alone the thermal phantom in the infirmary or the etheric phantoms encountered after the Hardware Labs.

Look online and you'll find people complaining about bad combat, bullet sponges, running out of ammo because they don't understand any of this. These are cerebral elements that come from observing systems interactions, rather than just dodging and shooting. Experience with ImSims or other hybrid action RPGs will make a big difference here, something I've seen firsthand.

I remember loads of people screaming about this when the game first came out, freaking out at how "play your way" was a terrible lie. Modern players lose their shit if they have to compromise their playstyle even a little bit and Prey starts you out at a distinct disadvantage, forcing you to move slow and be stealthy at the start.
 

ciox

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I'm sure a lot of them just sucked, but some also screamed because the difficulty jump from fighting mimics to fighting phantoms is pretty 0 to 100.
There's a reason why the 2nd enemy you encounter in System Shock games doesn't melee instantly, teleport, dash, dash-up and instant melee, throw ranged attacks with deceptive travel speed/acceleration, teleport away and wait just around the corner, etc.

I understand the intent to hard-counter what used to work on mimics (gloo-ing them) but it's still awkward as hell for the 2nd enemy type you fight to be such a curveball, and you go straight from the mimic to the phantom with nothing much in between because of muh budget or whatever happened that stopped them from making more monsters.
 

Ash

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I'm sure a lot of them just sucked, but some also screamed because the difficulty jump from fighting mimics to fighting phantoms is pretty 0 to 100.
There's a reason why the 2nd enemy you encounter in System Shock games doesn't melee instantly, teleport, dash, dash-up and instant melee, throw ranged attacks with deceptive travel speed/acceleration, teleport away and wait just around the corner, etc.


Yeah, because Shock 1 & 2 has around twice if not thrice as many enemy encounters and enemy types across the game, and the ever looming threat of enemy respawns. If the phantoms weren't somewhat competent Prey would really be a sad joke in terms of challenge, as they are really all that holds the fort until you unlock kinetic blast which knocks them on their ass lol. Or once you start to notice the poor resource economy and fabricate infinite shotgun shells to just go ham.

Enemy Variety is a problem. More lower tier enemy types and higher tier enemy types needed both.
Enemy quantity is a problem. Not many enemies. The gameplay ratio is quite off, like in the new Deus Ex games where you spend 75% of the game committing burglary and theft. Notably, there's like 5 weavers and telepaths each in the entire game.
Enemy placement is a problem. Outside of rather harmless mimics, enemies only ever patrol central hallways and such, on their own, not too many exceptions to the rule, not much to catch you off guard. Not much scripted (or dynamic) spawning, group ambushes, or anything of that nature.
Enemy intelligence and overall behavioral design is pretty great. Can't really complain, I just hate the annoying sound cues when spotted etc. Oh and nightmares suck.

The mod I spoke of fixes all this, though many would complain it goes too far in the opposite direction (too hardcore). I am happy though.

Also, the phantoms aren't THAT wild. They move slowly when not teleporting, their projectile has a notable delay and are very well telegraphed. And there are many, many ways to deal with them even early game, some methods quite cheap. They are for sure a mid-tier enemy though, while mimics are like flies to be swatted. There definitely should have been an in-between enemy type. Quite the oversight from Arkane. "Oversight" is Prey summed up nicely when it comes to very core gameplay fundamentals.
 
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Mmm, disagree a bit there on the inequality of encounter rate between the Shocks (especially 2) and Prey. Shock 1 & 2 are both much shorter games than Prey, so they feel more tightly paced, but they definitely have their fair share of downtime (not a criticism, they are far better for it).

Agree with pretty much everything else. My suspicion is that, for some bizarre reason, the enemy variety problem was only noticed relatively late into development, and by the time it was recognized all they could do was put a band-aid on. It’s very clear that mimics got by far the most attention and every other creep after was a bit of an afterthought. Thinking about it now I’m not sure why they didn’t extrapolate the mimic ability to other mobs. The ability to mimic objects would be great for, say, Poltergeists and add some much needed tension and dynamism to those encounters featuring them.

And re: phantoms are a difficulty spike? Wtf you smoking Codex? Mimics are to headcrabs as phantoms are to headcrab zombies, it’s a very clear parallel and they’re both trivial to handle if you’ve been paying attention.
 

Ash

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No, they're right. Headcrab Zombies don't have shit on Phantoms, and are a low-tier enemy. They are slow, die in one magnum headshot (or three 9mm), and there isn't much else to say. Phantoms are more akin to mid-tier enemies. Teleportation, a fast and accurate projectile attack, less dodgeable melee than the zombie, and not really one-shottable especially early game. A mid-tier enemy isn't much to handle, no, but if say Prey was to be a newcomer's first ever First Person game, or first ever first person game that is more nuanced than GTAV and Call of Duty singleplayer, it's gonna wreck them a bunch without more common low-tier enemies here and there to ease them into the combat...and there isn't really any except hide and seek with the mimics. There isn't really that many enemies at all compared to traditional, superior game design. Sorry, that's also the truth. Not that there is a huge absence, but it is noticeably below what most classic games did, and detrimental to the quality of the game. Especially when it doesn't offer much otherwise except following objective markers, the very rare and very tame puzzle element, underdeveloped hacking mini-game, non-factor inventory management, risk-free exterior exploration, risk-free platforming and most commonly of all looting everything in sight - much of it unneeded. This game is quite casual, but starts somewhat testing, and has awesome spikes like the GUTS. After that, the game is no longer engaging. If you know what's good for you, you will Prey for Death! Install the mod.

Another factor that separates Shock 2 in enemy counts you're probably overlooking is security systems. Evil turrets and security cameras. Nothing like that here. Maybe one pre-placed corrupted turret in the entire game? lol.
 
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Zboj Lamignat

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No, there is. I don't think you realize the gulf of difference between a player who tries to play Prey like an action shooter (especially if unskilled at such) vs. a player who can quickly internalize stat-driven features of combat.
I'm not speaking about a modern gaymer's perspective, but about the reality of what the game is versus what it imagines itself to be. It throws way too many tools at the player way too quickly. Not to mention that some of these tools should absolutely not even exist in the game in the first place, like the ability to craft lvl up currency or upgrade kits, I still cannot fathom how someone was stupid enough to think the former is a good idea. And all the rationalization about it being somehow hidden, requiring effort or whatever sound pretty cope to me and not how the game was when I played it on release. I don't remember super well, but I don't think I'm wrong in saying that the best weapon AND the ability to craft ammo for it right next to it are in the lobby area. Many examples like that.

There's also some less significant stuff that tries to sell itself as "creative", but is in fact p retarded. Like giving skill for picking up boxes (lol) to get more loot, but then you quickly learn that it's enough to just throw a recycling grenade at them.

All that plus the super crappy enemies and general lack of tension/horror drag this game down a real lot. Yeah, it's a "SS clone so good even when bad" type of thing, but not much more than that despite the undeniable potential. I think it's the same as many other modern games where the dev staff had some good ideas, but were then course-corrected along the way so that the game could sell. With the added irony that doing it that way never works so it didn't.
 

Latelistener

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I'm still trying to finish Mooncrash, but it is a drag. I've completed Prey 3 times in a row and was less exhausted.

Some people here said they don't like roguelikes. I don't really like them either, but Mooncrash is not even that. The ultimate idea of "rogue" as I see it is to try to make every walkthrough unique.

This one's ultimate goal is to make things in the correct order over multiple walkthroughs. I may even like the idea on paper, but most of its objectives are locked behind other objectives and grind.

General writing took a nosedive compared to Prey. Not that you have time to read anything because of the timer.

No, you need to open a computer, copy an email into your PDA and only then read it, but by that time you already lose interest and forget about it.

Also, shopping before each run is even worse than the usual "meta-progression".
 

ciox

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Sorry bro, but video essays said it's the best gaming experience ever created.
 

Tweed

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I am now happy with Prey, for the most part. Thanks to the mod "Prey for Death 2". :salute: :salute: :salute:

https://www.nexusmods.com/prey2017/mods/63

As many of you will know, I considered this game beneath me, nice attempt and a lot to love there, but ultimately a major disappointment. Much better than Bioshock, yet no true classic. Well, mods will fix it!

-Fabrication licenses! No longer can you spam infinite shotgun ammo & neuromods. You must make use of everything you can get your hands on. I don't think I used a single EMP or nullwave grenade vanilla, but here they saw a decent amount of use. No infinite neuromods nicely solves the issue where you had all relevant upgrades 60% into the game. Here by the end I did not remotely have enough neuromods. I got maybe 70% of the human upgrades but only lvl1 kinetic blast from the three alien trees. I have some criticism of the balancing of the adjusted neuromod costs & choices but it's way better than shitty vanilla so it feels kind of moot to go into detail at this time. Additionally, as you do not have all the neuromods, this forces you to get creative with solutions and weigh your options, even in the late game. It stays engaging until the final stretches now, unlike vanilla where it's a cool game until the arboretum.

-New weapons + uniques offer a little replayablity & combat diversity, as well as add depth to the weapon upgrade system. They're definitely not perfect, could use work, for example the inventory icons are borked when a weapon is broken, but again we can't be too critical when the vanilla offering was deeply unsatisfying. All the stuff from the Mooncrash DLC has been ported over, this being the psi blade + unique skin variants for all the existing weapons, only the dev smartly repurposed those unique skins versions into unique-performing variants. I found a wrench that briefly stuns, a gloo gun repurposed into a flamethrower (far too ammo hungry though), a q-beam that deals a little bit of fire damage in addition to energy and so on. All these weapons can be modified too. As for the actual new weapons not just reskins: SMG, laser SMG, Magnum, Psi Blade, Gauss Gun. And most of these have unique variants too. Oddly enough there were no fabrication licenses to be found for the SMG and Magnum ammo, resulting in minimal use for those two weapons. As a result Pistol/shotgun/qbeam remain the ranged workhorses, with laser SMG & Gauss secondary, and SMG & Magnum tertiary. Ideally all weapons would see equal potential use via ammo availability.

-New level events: Minor randomized environmental hazard locations add a little diversity, and periodic solar radiation storms make the entire station go dark (all lights out) which makes things adequately spooky. Stay away from the windows or suffer heavy radiation damage/poisoning. Later in the game during these events a new phantom variation named "Solar Hunters" spawn in, and they're nasty, you absolutely want to hide. Finding where to hide in the dark with these guys on your ass may prove tricky.
In the machine shop level you also get a randomized pulse of solar activity (I forget what exactly), which powers down most electronics for just a few seconds (doors, turrets), which creates interesting situations when trying to run away from enemies for example.

-New & redesigned enemies! 6 or so new variants. Frequent enemy spawning, game is no longer just a pointless junk-recycling simulator! Cystoid phantom is a mobile cystoid spawner that can't teleport but you definitely want to keep your distance from. Chameleon phantoms are invisible and come in nasty groups of 2-3. The nightmare now lives up to his name, and has pretty much every attack in the game and then some. The typhon are almost scary now. They are out for blood!
These are all very well implemented, most notably they are all visually distinct and look the part. Occasionally you'll notice a slight imperfection in behavior but considering there is over twice as many enemies as vanilla that's to be expected. More time spent with them, more likely for things to go wrong.

-Restricted game saving! One autosave when entering a new area for the first time. Save as many times as you like at key locations (Morgan's lobby office, Alex's Arboretum office), in addition to limited use save cards you find which can be used at any security station to manually save. Makes the game a genuine challenge and all the systems and choices fall into place.

-Various Little details I should mention:

No more indicators above enemies and no sharp ear-raping sound effects alerting you when they've spotted you (special case enemies still get music, such as Poltergeists). INCLINE.
Randomized locations of some key items, though the execution leaves something to be desired.
Inventory use has a small delay, creating consequence for spamming in combat. Honestly I'd remove this. Vanilla had a delay it's just longer here.
Drinking water sources still heals you, in fact even more so (3hp as opposed to 1), but all water sources are contaminated with radiation, so you can't go overboard and need to keep anti-rad medicine handy.
The flashlight beam was changed from a moderate-sized rectangle to a small circular sphere. Arguably too small. It does make things extra spooky when all the lights go out but I'd have kept the rectangle. Still, it's fine I guess.

This mod is by no means perfect, but it has done what nobody thought possible; made Prey a genuine game. Its biggest issues were the very basics of design: absurd balance that removed all thought/C&C/strategy/challenge from the game after a certain point, lack of enemies compounding the issue even further and not providing payoff for the endless scavenging, and a lack of weapons resulting in repetition in the engagements that do exist, and that's all fixed here and with even more than that on top. There's a lot of (mostly minor) rough edges with this mod, but now I finally managed to sit through Prey a second time without quitting in disgust/boredom and I enjoyed it almost right to the end. Up until you've explored everything and Arkane have you running backwards and forwards doing menial tasks for the ending - the final 15 mins. I just quit there. One day, in a decade perhaps, I will play again with this mod. Prey now has a future.

Big thanks to the creator for making this a genuine classic. Be warned though, this is hardcore asf, more so than System Shock 2. I died approximately 80 times and had moments of frustration in the Crew's quarters (which resulted in me listening to Danielle Sho & Abigail Foy's little love story over and over and now I am traumatized). This is on easy difficulty + all hardcore options enabled (traumas, weapon degradation etc). And that is what settings I recommend you play on too.
Another word of warning is stealth playstyle is both no longer viable, and yet simultaneously mandatory, use it when you can to get the upper hand, which is not often. Perhaps play with RoSoDude 's Core Balance Mod instead if Prey is in your eyes a stealth game but you want it to be a bit less retarded, as it just doesn't fly here. You can sneak in various situations but trying to play 100% stealth is just not going to work. Otherwise this mod is a must play for any serious monocled gamer with interest in Prey. This is now my favorite Arkane game alongside Arx Fatalis. The rest are forgettable.

The next version of the mod in progress claims to be making some alt dimension mechanic, which sounds gay/mod author overstepping, but he's proven his worth so far so I'll try to keep an open mind. Hope he at least polishes up what is already existing though.

Tried this, it's unbalanced, immature crap. Tedium of needing to save your game and losing progress isn't fun. 32 different flavors of the same generic phantom doesn't solve enemy fatigue. Instead of printing neuromods you can go on the same "kill monster" mission over and over to scrounge up enough traits to survive more than five seconds. and when I got a fire pistol called Trogdor I knew all this guy had done was turn the game into a very bad looter shooter and called it quits.
 

Ash

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So you got owned. Get good. This mod is the only way to make Prey a genuinely good game.

Instead of printing neuromods you can go on the same "kill monster" mission over and over to scrounge up enough traits to survive more than five seconds.

Pure lies.

32 different flavors of the same generic phantom doesn't solve enemy fatigue.

4 added flavors. And they're all very well done.

Tedium of needing to save your game and losing progress isn't fun.

Not sure why you'd try it if you know you can't live without your cucksaving.

I knew all this guy had done was turn the game into a very bad looter shooter and called it quits.

Hardcore survival horror more like.
 

Tweed

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So you got owned. Get good. This mod is the only way to make Prey a genuinely good game.

Instead of printing neuromods you can go on the same "kill monster" mission over and over to scrounge up enough traits to survive more than five seconds.

Pure lies.

32 different flavors of the same generic phantom doesn't solve enemy fatigue.

4 added flavors. And they're all very well done.

Tedium of needing to save your game and losing progress isn't fun.

Not sure why you'd try it if you know you can't live without your cucksaving.

Ok, you're a retard, my bad.
 

Tweed

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Nice argument you have there. Keep playing.

No. :)

I'm sure it gave you a tingly in your peepee to flex on someone for not liking your toughguy mod, but it really eats shit. I played well past the Arboretum and it's not fun, just repetitive in different way. Being jumped by the Nightmare three times in the span of five minutes doesn't make a good version of Prey and neither does letting it shit out 100 cystoids. Getting magical space guns that belong in Fallout 4 don't improve the game, they make it into something else and your idea of fun may be getting pinned down in Crew Quarters because an entire fucking army of phantoms is sitting on the other side waiting for you, but for me it's just bad design.
 

Ash

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Yes.

your idea of fun may be getting pinned down in Crew Quarters because an entire fucking army of phantoms is sitting on the other side waiting for you, but for me it's just bad design.

:incline:

Get good!

Like I said, some would complain it is too hardcore. For myself, having to use Prey's freeform design to work around the brutal onslaught is awesome and I'd never thought Prey could be saved from the casual shitfest it is. Guess you'd better stick with modern gamer vanilla.

For Cystoids, get the high ground. Kinectic blast and other alien powers help greatly. Recycler grenades, Nullwave grenades, gloo gun, fly over them, grab a turret and lure them to it, turn into a coffee cup and sneak past, find an alternate route if possible to bypass them altogether...I will agree the cystoid spam is a bit much, but who cares. Work with it. Better than vanilla where nothing really presents an obstacle.

But yeah, if you see no value in restricted saving, you're simply going to have a bad time with this mod. It is hardcore asf. My death count was probably around 100 by the end of it.
 
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Ash

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It's OK, you're just raging after many deaths and throwing the toys out of the pram. You'll be back to finish the job. Not gonna let yourself get owned like a sissy now are you. :smug:

Oh, and a tip for you...run away/sneak past the nightmare? You don't have to fight it, especially in the arboretum. I killed most but definitely avoided a few. The mod IS unbalanced (brutal and needs to be toned down very slightly), but are you not an old school gamer? 80s games were tougher and more unforgiving than this. Get good.
 
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Tedium of needing to save your game and losing progress isn't fun.

Not sure why you'd try it if you know you can't live without your cucksaving.

Some people are brainlets and can't handle a game that doesn't let them undo their mistakes every 5 seconds.

Quicksaving was a mistake. I'm so glad the industry at large is waking up to this fact and making more and more interesting save systems, like what old console games used to have.

Bring back ink ribbons, I say!
 

Tweed

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Tedium of needing to save your game and losing progress isn't fun.

Not sure why you'd try it if you know you can't live without your cucksaving.

Some people are brainlets and can't handle a game that doesn't let them undo their mistakes every 5 seconds.

Quicksaving was a mistake. I'm so glad the industry at large is waking up to this fact and making more and more interesting save systems, like what old console games used to have.

Bring back ink ribbons, I say!

Both of you faggots can talk when you finish KotC 2 1.0
 

Sunsetspawn

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unlock kinetic blast
I really need to play this again with alien powers; I played my first run all human because I thought it would effect the ending. It's on my to-do list, but horror games give me anxiety because I'm a giant f-word.
 

Ash

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Prey scare/horror factor: 2/10

At this rate it may be time you transitioned to sisterhood. Or not, as you are man enough to admit it at least.

I would probably advise against unlocking Kinetic Blast vanilla. It is absurdly OP: knocks phantoms on their ass, can be spammed (its cooldown is like 4 seconds), decent damage, decent reliable range, not much psi point drain per use, AoE effect which is always good, effective against every enemy type, and once psi water fountains are unlocked it is even more problematic. This is my experience, and I don't invest in optimizing Psi to the best of its potential (via neuromods and chipsets). though because Prey lets you unlock nearly everything with ease it does get some.
Go for the other powers, they're not so problematic in regards to balance. Of those I tried.
 

Tweed

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unlock kinetic blast
I really need to play this again with alien powers; I played my first run all human because I thought it would effect the ending. It's on my to-do list, but horror games give me anxiety because I'm a giant f-word.

Psychoshock melts pretty much everything and phantom shift makes it even easier for avoid damage.
 

ciox

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doyouevenlift.png
"Bro, do you even worship Arkane"
 

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