Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

[BlackAdderBG]

4-5 on Athletics is more than you need on most characters. 2-3 is good enough.

10 Mechanics is probably enough to open all locks - it's disarming traps that gets higher than that.

Disagree that stealth is "useless", especially now with individual stealth. It's a playstyle thing, eremita - decide for yourself what you're going to do.

3 Athletics on PotD will annoy you a lot.
As for stealth ,he asked for advice,my is don't bother.

 

[Delterius]

Well, I did not invest on Stealth and it was still possible to scout for encounters and even

Spoiler

bypass the frost elves' surveillance at the pocahontas city

was this changed?

 

[Roguey]

Somewhat related.

https://twitter.com/MLPSandy/status/650711802515337216




There's one brony who just can't rise up to the challenge.

 

[Infinitron]

Well, I did not invest on Stealth and it was still possible to scout for encounters and even

Spoiler

bypass the frost elves' surveillance at the pocahontas city

was this changed?

Define "invest". It doesn't "need" to be maximized the way Mechanics needs to be, no. You can probably do some wacky stuff with enemy crowds with Stealth at 10+ (like walk right past them undetected even in narrowish corridors) but it's not necessary for unlocking content.

 

[Sensuki]

Probably dying to disengagement attacks.

 

[Delterius]

Define "invest". It doesn't "need" to be maximized the way Mechanics needs to be, no. You can probably do some wacky stuff with enemy crowds with Stealth at 10+ (like walk right past them undetected even in narrowish corridors) but it's not necessary for unlocking content.

I mean in the sense that of the traditional uses of Stealth in such games -- Infiltration and quest resolution, Scouting, Combat -- the one that sees use in PoE is scouting and even though I gave Sagani a high Stealth score just in case, the enemies' field of vision is very poor, so there was no point to it all. I was wondering if higher level enemies could reveal the player more quickly in PoE 2.0, or if the White March expansion added content that makes stealth more worthwhile, such as different quest resolutions, encounters that are spread over a large area instead of huddled together or maybe even encounters filled with traps in between the enemies.

 

[Infinitron]

I mean in the sense that of the traditional uses of Stealth in such games -- Infiltration and quest resolution, Scouting, Combat -- the one that sees use in PoE is scouting and even though I gave Sagani a high Stealth score just in case, the enemies' field of vision is very poor, so there was no point to it all.

You probably don't need super high Stealth just to venture momentarily into an enemy group's line of sight, but to reposition yourself on the other side of said group, or get a look at the entire group, not just ones on the edge, can be more demanding.

if the White March expansion added content that makes stealth more worthwhile, such as different quest resolutions

I believe it did.

encounters that are spread over a large area instead of huddled together

See my remark about scouting the edge vs the entire group.

maybe even encounters filled with traps in between the enemies.

The base game has those too.

Anyway, the funny thing about stealth in this game to me is that it can trick you into getting yourself into trouble. I bet lots of players keep stealth on all the time, so that when they leave it to fight they're in the vision range of more enemies than they need to be, and their characters are closer to the enemies than they need to be.

 

[eremita]

Thanks for the advice guys. I'm afraid I'm gonna have to whine a little bit then. Skills are disapointing: 1) Athletics is obvisouly a must have skill, which makes it a design failure in the same way as "useless skills" are. If Mr. Balance came up with that, it's pretty ironic... 2) Why would anyone merge Open Locks, Disarming Traps and Set Traps and Search in the same skill?! 3.5e proves that those skills are viable in their own right, because various combinations permit different playstyles. Stealthy Ranger seting traps makes sense. If someone's concerned with his lack of ability for disarming/opening they can just throw one level of rogue in there. Lots of different choices, lots of differetn styles. But here I'm forced to take a mandatory athletics skill and then either make a stealthy survivalist, stealthy rogue or survivalist rogue. And you have to be a retard to achieve this kind of playstyle restrictions with classless skills. Good job Obsidian. Even 7 years old Storm of Zehir does this much better...

I dare anyone to defend the skills in PoE, I will tear you to pieces! It's shitty for no reason, reworking it wouldn't screw balance and it wouldn't make it less IE games successor. It's a work of a designer who doesn't understand the possibilities of different playstyles within classes. So I'm guessing in every fucking playthrough you end up with the same shit: few points of athletics and lore for everyone and one Mechanics guy. Again, good job!

 

[Infinitron]

Thanks for the advice guys. I'm afraid I'm gonna have to whine a little bit then. Skills are disapointing: 1) Athletics is obvisouly a must have skill, which makes it a design failure in the same way as "useless skills" are. If Mr. Balance came up with that, it's pretty ironic... 2) Why would anyone merge Open Locks, Disarming Traps and Set Traps and Search in the same skill?! 3.5e proves that those skills are viable in their own right, because various combinations permit different playstyles. Stealthy Ranger seting traps makes sense. If someone's concerned with his lack of ability for disarming/opening they can just throw one level of rogue in there. Lots of different choices, lots of differetn styles. But here I'm forced to take a mandatory athletics skill and then either make a stealthy survivalist, stealthy rogue or survivalist rogue. And you have to be a retard to achieve this kind of playstyle restrictions with classless skills. Good job Obsidian. Even 7 years old Storm of Zehir does this much better...

I dare anyone to defend the skills in PoE, I will tear you to pieces! It's shitty for no reason, reworking it wouldn't screw balance and it wouldn't make it less IE games successor. It's a work of a designer who doesn't understand the possibilities of different playstyles within classes. So I'm guessing in every fucking playthrough you end up with the same shit: few points of athletics and lore for everyone and one Mechanics guy. Again, good job!

Nobody's defending them, even the developers knew they were a weak/undeveloped subsystem. The skills were even abstracted out and merged with Talents at one point in the game's development, but backers rebelled against that so they just kinda gave up.

The IE games were never "skill system games" so it's not a big deal, but I assume there will be changes in the sequel. In the meantime, it'll help if you think of PoE's skill system not as equivalent to the system from NWN/3E, but as a kind of generalization of the Thief skills you could increase on level up in the IE games.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Thanks for the advice guys. I'm afraid I'm gonna have to whine a little bit then. Skills are disapointing: 1) Athletics is obvisouly a must have skill, which makes it a design failure in the same way as "useless skills" are. If Mr. Balance came up with that, it's pretty ironic... 2) Why would anyone merge Open Locks, Disarming Traps and Set Traps and Search in the same skill?! 3.5e proves that those skills are viable in their own right, because various combinations permit different playstyles. Stealthy Ranger seting traps makes sense. If someone's concerned with his lack of ability for disarming/opening they can just throw one level of rogue in there. Lots of different choices, lots of differetn styles. But here I'm forced to take a mandatory athletics skill and then either make a stealthy survivalist, stealthy rogue or survivalist rogue. And you have to be a retard to achieve this kind of playstyle restrictions with classless skills. Good job Obsidian. Even 7 years old Storm of Zehir does this much better...

I dare anyone to defend the skills in PoE, I will tear you to pieces! It's shitty for no reason, reworking it wouldn't screw balance and it wouldn't make it less IE games successor. It's a work of a designer who doesn't understand the possibilities of different playstyles within classes. So I'm guessing in every fucking playthrough you end up with the same shit: few points of athletics and lore for everyone and one Mechanics guy. Again, good job!

spoiler

its because the designers are inept

 

[Cadmus]

I haven't read the whole 62 pages, is the game less banal shit boring now?
Darth Roxor

 

[Darth Roxor]

how the hell should i know lol it probably aint

 

[Cadmus]

aren't you already writing another review? what are you good for?

 

[Infinitron]

Darth Roxor has been thoroughly typecast as the Codex's "hater-on-demand". I'm starting to feel sorry for him with all these lesser haters begging him for validation all the time.

 

[Darth Roxor]

i should set up a pay-per-hate patreon account

 

[Cadmus]

Darth Roxor has been thoroughly typecast as the Codex's "hater-on-demand". I'm starting to feel sorry for him with all these lesser haters begging him for validation all the time.

I believe it is you who typecast him as a hater.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Darth Roxor has been thoroughly typecast as the Codex's "hater-on-demand". I'm starting to feel sorry for him with all these lesser haters begging him for validation all the time.

In the words of someone who looks like a codexer, and talks like a codexer:

 

[Dorateen]

The White March is thematically excellent. Besides being set against a backdrop of tragic dwarven history, the thrust of the adventure is much more toward exploration and treasure hunting. Combat encounters and itemization are better. In addition there is less focus on the central "Main Character" narrative. Through special events, whether saving an animal, rescuing villagers or running into burning houses, the player is able to select other party members and utilize their skills situationally. This makes the expansion play closer to a full party game like Icewind Dale or Storm of Zehir.

The design principles displayed in The White March is what Pillars should have been from the beginning.

 

[Excidium II]

Through special events, whether saving an animal, rescuing villagers or running into burning houses, the player is able to select other party members and utilize their skills situationally.

What do you mean special events? The CYOAs? You already could do that.

 

[Dorateen]

Not in the same degree as how TWM does it. I have other custom made characters being recognized in text and identified as the one performing the feat, not just the Main PC. There is one situation I am thinking of in particular that was not the CYOA style, but through regular dialogue, and had other custom characters participating.

 

[Vociferon]

I was wondering, how critical is TWM expansion to the overall PoE experience? Should I try the base game as it is or should I wait for the Pillars of Eternity Complete Ultimate Director's Cut Deluxe Limited Platinum Extended Edition release, if I'm already considering giving it a shot?

 

[AwesomeButton]

I was wondering, how critical is TWM expansion to the overall PoE experience? Should I try the base game as it is or should I wait for the Pillars of Eternity Complete Ultimate Director's Cut Deluxe Limited Platinum Extended Edition release, if I'm already considering giving it a shot?

My advice is, try it before you play it. If you can bear the bad sides of the base game, TWM's quality is higher and chances are you'll enjoy it. If you dislike the base game too much, TWM won't change your mind.

 

[Excidium II]

I was wondering, how critical is TWM expansion to the overall PoE experience? Should I try the base game as it is or should I wait for the Pillars of Eternity Complete Ultimate Director's Cut Deluxe Limited Platinum Extended Edition release, if I'm already considering giving it a shot?

I'd wait, but that's because I'd be annoyed to have to reload an old save to play TWM Part 2 as by then I'd have already finished the main game and Part 1.

 

[Delterius]

I believe it is you who typecast him as a hater.

Not really. Darth Roxor has been setting an example to us all since 2008.

 

[Excidium II]

It's like people already forgot his blackguards review. Was it that long ago?