Game News Pillars of Eternity Released

[Sensuki]

BG's main content has nothing to do with the motivation of the player character, that was my point. The player character isn't actually allowed to pursue the murderer of his foster father, you have to investigate the Nashkel mines and Cloakwood bandits for...reasons. Until you stumble upon said murderer entirely by accident.

I think you're just thinking something like linear = bad, or something like that. Linear just = linear.

Sarevok is the overarching antagonist, but you have to deal with Tazok because you run into a bunch of bounty hunters that have bounties signed by Tazok, and later on you find out that Tazok works for Sarevok.

The game isn't as "plot-gated" as Pillars of Eternity is early on, but eventually you'll run into a reason to do something that all make sense and are related. I think the Pillars of Eternity plot runs into issues in Act 2 and then it's just like wtf is this? when you get to Act 3.

This means that if you follow the main plot and deliberately only do 1/2 wilderness areas in between main plot quests, the pacing will be fine. If on the other hand you follow the game "geografically" and do everything there is to do in the wilderness before going to the title city, pacing will be bad.

I don't have trouble detaching side content from plot content I guess. I was talking about the pace of the plot, not the way that you progress through the entire game itself.

I think going crazy and trying to find out what the hell is happening to you - along with weird visions of some past events and tortured people - is good enough motivations for a player.

I dunno by the time I got to the end of Act 2, I didn't really want to stop being a Watcher, or Awakened and there was proof that people live with it fine. Yet that's not recognized in the game (but whatever, I usually don't care about that stuff anyway). Thaos didn't have anywhere near the impact as other half-decent to good antagonists in games I've played over the years.

 

[abnaxus]

When will Oscuro Overhaul be out?

 

[Tigranes]

Sensuki has a very complicated expression of his opinion, but Grunker's got the essence of it I think.

I love POE in its high moments and for some of its Torment-y themes, but its low moments and its more regular fantasy plot-y moments are pretty subpar. It's quite odd for a game with a relatively small team and what you'd imagine was tighter direction. It'd be fun to read later about how the plot changed and what was cut / changed over time.

 

[One-and-a-half-Ivan]

I dunno by the time I got to the end of Act 2, I didn't really want to stop being a Watcher, or Awakened and there was proof that people live with it fine. Yet that's not recognized in the game (but whatever, I usually don't care about that stuff anyway). Thaos didn't have anywhere near the impact as other half-decent to good antagonists in games I've played over the years.

I see. Different point of views probably.
Also, I agree with Grunker regarding PoE. But I didin't think that its low moments were very low (in comparison with DAO, for example).

 

[Sensuki]

Sensuki has a very complicated expression of his opinion, but Grunker's got the essence of it I think.
It's quite odd for a game with a relatively small team and what you'd imagine was tighter direction. It'd be fun to read later about how the plot changed and what was cut / changed over time.

It is odd. I think it might have something to do with their collaborative writing process. They used a new experimental writing process that they have never used before. Usually it's just one guy banging out the story - MCA for KotoR 2, Ziets for MotB, Gonzalez for FNV. For Pillars they had collaborative meetings about the story with a lot of people and then used elements from Fenstermaker, Ziets, Sawyer and a couple of small details from others to make the story.

Fenstermaker and Ziets worked on it together for a time and then Ziets left the project for Torment.

After a while, Fenstermaker decided to change the core theme of the story from what he and Ziets were working on.

They got to do multiple narrative edit passes and stuff later in the project that they've never been able to do before and then they had Avellone doing his own edits as well.

Maybe it's a case of too many cooks? I dunno.

For me, it felt like they really had to deliberately stretch the plot just so they could get to the Act 3 to 4 stuff which was really what they wanted it to be about ... but I'm not sure why, as if they had to have specific reasons to visit most areas in the game or something, I dunno.

 

[Irenaeus]

They made a great cake and that's what matters.

 

[Sensuki]

Too many nuts for my liking.

 

[Crooked Bee]

I think if you enjoyed New Vegas, which also was a Sawyer-Fenstermaker project, chances are you will enjoy this one too (even though, weirdly enough, I found New Vegas' dialogue and narrative a bit more compelling overall).

Oh shit.

Oh, I take it you didn't enjoy New Vegas.

I dunno, that's just the way I feel about it. Don't be a roguey, just play the game and judge for yourself.

 

[Sensuki]

And if you do, use the IE Mod (even if just for the HUD)

 

[Bleed the Man]

I'm sorry, but I can't fathom the comparison with the first Baldur's Gate. With the second I would understand, as it has an extremely enjoyable villain (not deep, or even well written, but it's all in the delivery. He's a fun villain to watch) and really great pacing with his super duper epic plot. It's an enjoyable and fun, but not deep or terribly interesting, plot, as most high fantasy stuff is when is done well. But BG1? The concept for the story is fine, but you can't disjoint it from the narrative and writing quality. One of the mian reasons I think BG1 is a mediocre and bland game is that i can't stand it's writing. It's beyond cheesy, it's amateur as hell. It damages all the interesting stuff that the plot of the childs of the god of murder could offer. Contrary to what happened with BG2, where the delivery of a relatively cliché and not superinteresting story was done quite well (the writing is still very univen though, specially with the companions, who are horrendus), BG1 delivery was absolutely terrible.

I can't talk much about the plot of PoE for now, but the only notable issue that I'm seeing thus far is the fact that they didn't want to go with the MotB rute again and make the affliction the player suffers relevant gameplay wise, so when it is mention in certain interactions (mostly the bad dreams Edér wakes you) falls completely flat.
But outside of that, it has a great set up (Waidwen's Legacy, animancy, watcher powers), with a great mistery vibe through all the 2 first acts, an enigmatic and interesting villain, and it toys with some classic fantasy concepts (evil cult doing bad things) and does really cool stuff with it.

Right now, it doesn't reach KOTOR 2 or MotB quality levels, but it is definetly a good plot for what I've seen and very well written, with great lore to support it.

 

[Sensuki]

Except I wasn't talking about the writing quality, just the plot.

Other IE games (and other Obsidian games/other games) have simple straight forward plots that work.

Pillars of Eternity has a more complicated plot that has a few issues and I didn't remotely care about it.

Didn't have a problem with the plot in KotoR 2

 

[Bleed the Man]

Except I wasn't talking about the writing quality, just the plot.

The concept for the story is fine, but you can't disjoint it from the narrative and writing quality.

Dungeon Siege 3 has also a relatively good/interesting plot, but the delivery of said plot is awful, which make it a bad plot. The narrative and writing of said plot is of equal or even of greater importance.

Other IE games (and other Obsidian games/other games) have simple straight forward plots that work.

Pillars of Eternity has a more complicated plot that has a few issues and I didn't remotely care about it.

Didn't have a problem with the plot in KotoR 2

Other Obsidian games that have a more straight forward plot are NWN 2 OC, which has some really interesting and well done bits but overall is just a narrative mess with uneven writing quality, Storm of Zehir, which is almost irrelevant for the game so it's just there, Alpha Protocol, that supports it's conventional story with it's theme (spies) and great writing and cast of characters along with tons of reactivity, and Dungeon Siege 3, which as I said has a good concept but it just falls apart in its delivery.
Only AP plot works consistently well of their more conventional plots. The rest have a lot of problems, a lot more than PoE.

I understand having issues, big or small, with the PoE plot, even if I don't agree with them or if I don't think they're as big as other people believe. But BG1 is just extremely weak by itself to be worthy of a comparison. I wouldn't have had a problem if it was BG2 the one being discussed, even if I believe there's no comparison either.

 

[Sensuki]

The writing concerning the main plot (and not the side content or companions) doesn't bother me at all in BG1. The overall writing tone of the game is a mess but IMO the plot central characters are all fine.

I agree with what Grunker said earlier - BG1 is never amazing, Pillars of Eternity has some really good bits but is uneven overall / is more of a spectacular failure, if anything.

 

[Melcar]

So it's all shit?

 

[Irenaeus]

No, it's awesome.

 

[Melcar]

Awesome shit?

 

[Ramireza]

Of course its awesome, maybe not perfect. But i can surely underdstand that someone with an IE Fetish cant enjoy Pillars Story/Plot at all.

 

[One-and-a-half-Ivan]

Too many nuts for my liking.

Imagine how it will be with Torment. It froghtens me a little bit, tbqh.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Pretty sure the million different writers in Torment are only there on the basis of 'oi, you there, please write this one dialogue k?'.

I'm also pretty sure TToN will come out well. It seems to have a much more solid management/vision behind it than poe to me.

 

[Jaedar]

Pretty sure the million different writers in Torment are only there on the basis of 'oi, you there, please write this one dialogue k?'.

I'm also pretty sure TToN will come out well. It seems to have a much more solid management/vision behind it than poe to me.

The problem is that it seems to be the same vision that spawned numenara in the first place.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Yes, the very use of Numenera is of course a big problem

 

[tuluse]

Pretty sure the million different writers in Torment are only there on the basis of 'oi, you there, please write this one dialogue k?'.

I'm also pretty sure TToN will come out well. It seems to have a much more solid management/vision behind it than poe to me.

The problem is that it seems to be the same vision that spawned numenara in the first place.

what

 

[Septaryeth]

The plot is good. It has some hiccups, but is still good nonetheless.
I think the issue is that there is so much info dump at the start, and not enough incentives to keep the players forward to the juicy part.

Spoiler

In a world where soul-science dominants pretty much everything, being a watcher feels almost like a superhero.
You pick up trails impossible to find in this life time, read others' minds, change people's perception or even their memories.
What's there to make you want to stop being a watcher?
Sure, you see an old watcher go crazy with multiple personality disorder, but it feels too distant. It did not happen on you at all.
Apart from your companion quipping about you having nightmares, there is no repercussion on all the awesome things you can do.
As a player all we see is just camp fire, more fire, and some flashing adra during rest.

Personally I really care for the story after entered the city and discovered that there is something we can do about the hollowborns.
Not that the content before that is boring, it's just doesn't feel as relevant as it should.
We don't need the protagonist to turn into Slayer and start eating their companions, but something more than a casual line to warn the players their character is losing their mind would be nice.

And I'll take Durance anyday over Pallegina even with his criticism over my every action and the constant threat of cleansing me with fire .
(Did anyone else find Pallegina buggy as hell? A lot of time there is no voice acting for her first sentence, and her dialogues did not trigger, and her quest...whoa, that was unsatisfying.)

 

[Brayko]

Well it's currently off the top seller list on Steam. Will it make a non-sale comeback? O:

 

[Tigranes]

The plot is good. It has some hiccups, but is still good nonetheless.
I think the issue is that there is so much info dump at the start, and not enough incentives to keep the players forward to the juicy part.

Spoiler

In a world where soul-science dominants pretty much everything, being a watcher feels almost like a superhero.
You pick up trails impossible to find in this life time, read others' minds, change people's perception or even their memories.
What's there to make you want to stop being a watcher?
Sure, you see an old watcher go crazy with multiple personality disorder, but it feels too distant. It did not happen on you at all.
Apart from your companion quipping about you having nightmares, there is no repercussion on all the awesome things you can do.
As a player all we see is just camp fire, more fire, and some flashing adra during rest.

Personally I really care for the story after entered the city and discovered that there is something we can do about the hollowborns.
Not that the content before that is boring, it's just doesn't feel as relevant as it should.
We don't need the protagonist to turn into Slayer and start eating their companions, but something more than a casual line to warn the players their character is losing their mind would be nice.

And I'll take Durance anyday over Pallegina even with his criticism over my every action and the constant threat of cleansing me with fire .
(Did anyone else find Pallegina buggy as hell? A lot of time there is no voice acting for her first sentence, and her dialogues did not trigger, and her quest...whoa, that was unsatisfying.)

I think it was a big challenge to make the Watcher's atrophy of the mind seem realistic to the player. I mean, what can you do? You can't fuck with the player's control over his own character, action or dialogue. They could have ripped off BG2 by having the player go out of control from time to time, but being a Watcher has no Slayer-like combat benefit to offset that.

I suppose they could have thrown in a few cutscenes and the like where the player begins to hallucinate and see things in a way that isn't helpful to him, but it's probably a lot of work for an end result that still feels like "well I'm only ever told about this atrophy that never affects me".

Maerwald was very well written and it's a good thing at least he's there, or everyone would forget there's any downsides to being a Watcher.