Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire + DLC Thread - now with turn-based combat!

[ArchAngel]

I already told you. They were created by humans, they are not different than a very powerful computer or a battleship. They are not smarter, or wiser or omnipotent, that is all very clear once you get to talk to them. As Eder says, they act like bickering children.

So they act exactly like say... greek gods?

Was Zeus created by humans using some technology or magical process?

the greeks had a damn word for it
https://www.britannica.com/topic/apotheosis

How did Zeus become a god? And that process does not create God or Gods, just powerful humans. And sure some people called them Gods, but so do many on Eora.
It does not change the fact they are just powerful beings but still very limited and act like humans

Not to split hairs, but if the Eoran gods are amalgamations of millions of souls, does that really make them AI?

Returning to the Greek gods for a moment, Zeus and the other Olympians were neither the creators of the world nor the first set of ruling gods. They killed/banished their predecessors and claimed the mantle of most violent assholes on the block.

Souls are just what is powering them. They were still created by human (kith) made machines. And they are limited by what kith dream of and want.
Just like human made AI will learn from us and never be able to go beyond our perceptions of the world.
Well never is too strong a world, but I don't expect AI to be much more than a better organizer or a tyrant.

 

[Crichton]

I already told you. They were created by humans, they are not different than a very powerful computer or a battleship. They are not smarter, or wiser or omnipotent, that is all very clear once you get to talk to them. As Eder says, they act like bickering children.

So they act exactly like say... greek gods?

Was Zeus created by humans using some technology or magical process?

the greeks had a damn word for it
https://www.britannica.com/topic/apotheosis

How did Zeus become a god? And that process does not create God or Gods, just powerful humans. And sure some people called them Gods, but so do many on Eora.
It does not change the fact they are just powerful beings but still very limited and act like humans

Not to split hairs, but if the Eoran gods are amalgamations of millions of souls, does that really make them AI?

Returning to the Greek gods for a moment, Zeus and the other Olympians were neither the creators of the world nor the first set of ruling gods. They killed/banished their predecessors and claimed the mantle of most violent assholes on the block.

Souls are just what is powering them. They were still created by human (kith) made machines. And they are limited by what kith dream of and want.
Just like human made AI will learn from us and never be able to go beyond our perceptions of the world.
Well never is too strong a world, but I don't expect AI to be much more than a better organizer or a tyrant.

I've seen multiple posters on this forum claim that but I honestly don't see the basis for these claims at all. Why should the creation be limited by the imagination of the creator? Fairy tales are full of creations that do things their creators don't anticipate (think of Galatea, the golem of Prague or Kolobok/Gingerbread man). If we think about this in terms of more terrestrial ways of creating a new entity, children are not inherently limited by their parents' understanding; neither of Einstein's parents had any glimpse of some of the things he was able to comprehend.

The 'twist' in PoE1 makes every bit as much sense as someone telling the player in Assassin's Creed: Odyssey "Galatea isn't real; she was carved out of marble by Pygmalion!" (and powered with the souls of nerieds or whatever) Why should anyone (including the player) give a shit? And you'll notice that the player's companions don't, not even the religious ones; the whole thing is disjointed, as if the authors tried to shove the plot of an odd-numbered Star Trek movie into a fantasy setting.

 

[ArchAngel]

I already told you. They were created by humans, they are not different than a very powerful computer or a battleship. They are not smarter, or wiser or omnipotent, that is all very clear once you get to talk to them. As Eder says, they act like bickering children.

So they act exactly like say... greek gods?

Was Zeus created by humans using some technology or magical process?

the greeks had a damn word for it
https://www.britannica.com/topic/apotheosis

How did Zeus become a god? And that process does not create God or Gods, just powerful humans. And sure some people called them Gods, but so do many on Eora.
It does not change the fact they are just powerful beings but still very limited and act like humans

Not to split hairs, but if the Eoran gods are amalgamations of millions of souls, does that really make them AI?

Returning to the Greek gods for a moment, Zeus and the other Olympians were neither the creators of the world nor the first set of ruling gods. They killed/banished their predecessors and claimed the mantle of most violent assholes on the block.

Souls are just what is powering them. They were still created by human (kith) made machines. And they are limited by what kith dream of and want.
Just like human made AI will learn from us and never be able to go beyond our perceptions of the world.
Well never is too strong a world, but I don't expect AI to be much more than a better organizer or a tyrant.

I've seen multiple posters on this forum claim that but I honestly don't see the basis for these claims at all. Why should the creation be limited by the imagination of the creator? Fairy tales are full of creations that do things their creators don't anticipate (think of Galatea, the golem of Prague or Kolobok/Gingerbread man). If we think about this in terms of more terrestrial ways of creating a new entity, children are not inherently limited by their parents' understanding; neither of Einstein's parents had any glimpse of some of the things he was able to comprehend.

The 'twist' in PoE1 makes every bit as much sense as someone telling the player in Assassin's Creed: Odyssey "Galatea isn't real; she was carved out of marble by Pygmalion!" (and powered with the souls of nerieds or whatever) Why should anyone (including the player) give a shit? And you'll notice that the player's companions don't, not even the religious ones; the whole thing is disjointed, as if the authors tried to shove the plot of an odd-numbered Star Trek movie into a fantasy setting.

Parents do not create their children, they are just vessels where they are created/grown. God or Nature create children. Einstein didn't do anything more than what humans as a race are capable of.

 

[Crichton]

I already told you. They were created by humans, they are not different than a very powerful computer or a battleship. They are not smarter, or wiser or omnipotent, that is all very clear once you get to talk to them. As Eder says, they act like bickering children.

So they act exactly like say... greek gods?

Was Zeus created by humans using some technology or magical process?

the greeks had a damn word for it
https://www.britannica.com/topic/apotheosis

How did Zeus become a god? And that process does not create God or Gods, just powerful humans. And sure some people called them Gods, but so do many on Eora.
It does not change the fact they are just powerful beings but still very limited and act like humans

Not to split hairs, but if the Eoran gods are amalgamations of millions of souls, does that really make them AI?

Returning to the Greek gods for a moment, Zeus and the other Olympians were neither the creators of the world nor the first set of ruling gods. They killed/banished their predecessors and claimed the mantle of most violent assholes on the block.

Souls are just what is powering them. They were still created by human (kith) made machines. And they are limited by what kith dream of and want.
Just like human made AI will learn from us and never be able to go beyond our perceptions of the world.
Well never is too strong a world, but I don't expect AI to be much more than a better organizer or a tyrant.

I've seen multiple posters on this forum claim that but I honestly don't see the basis for these claims at all. Why should the creation be limited by the imagination of the creator? Fairy tales are full of creations that do things their creators don't anticipate (think of Galatea, the golem of Prague or Kolobok/Gingerbread man). If we think about this in terms of more terrestrial ways of creating a new entity, children are not inherently limited by their parents' understanding; neither of Einstein's parents had any glimpse of some of the things he was able to comprehend.

The 'twist' in PoE1 makes every bit as much sense as someone telling the player in Assassin's Creed: Odyssey "Galatea isn't real; she was carved out of marble by Pygmalion!" (and powered with the souls of nerieds or whatever) Why should anyone (including the player) give a shit? And you'll notice that the player's companions don't, not even the religious ones; the whole thing is disjointed, as if the authors tried to shove the plot of an odd-numbered Star Trek movie into a fantasy setting.

Parents Ancient Wizards do not create their children Gods, they are just vessels where they are material from which they are created/grown. God or Nature create children Gods. Einstein Eothas didn't do anything more or less than what humans as a race are capable of.

FTFY

If humans can create independent sentient creatures biologically, why couldn't they do the same through magic? Why would gods created by ancient thaumaturgy be less capable of reason or change than gods licked out of salt blocks (Buri) or created through deific masturbation (Shu and Tefnut)?

 

[ArchAngel]

I already told you. They were created by humans, they are not different than a very powerful computer or a battleship. They are not smarter, or wiser or omnipotent, that is all very clear once you get to talk to them. As Eder says, they act like bickering children.

So they act exactly like say... greek gods?

Was Zeus created by humans using some technology or magical process?

the greeks had a damn word for it
https://www.britannica.com/topic/apotheosis

How did Zeus become a god? And that process does not create God or Gods, just powerful humans. And sure some people called them Gods, but so do many on Eora.
It does not change the fact they are just powerful beings but still very limited and act like humans

Not to split hairs, but if the Eoran gods are amalgamations of millions of souls, does that really make them AI?

Returning to the Greek gods for a moment, Zeus and the other Olympians were neither the creators of the world nor the first set of ruling gods. They killed/banished their predecessors and claimed the mantle of most violent assholes on the block.

Souls are just what is powering them. They were still created by human (kith) made machines. And they are limited by what kith dream of and want.
Just like human made AI will learn from us and never be able to go beyond our perceptions of the world.
Well never is too strong a world, but I don't expect AI to be much more than a better organizer or a tyrant.

I've seen multiple posters on this forum claim that but I honestly don't see the basis for these claims at all. Why should the creation be limited by the imagination of the creator? Fairy tales are full of creations that do things their creators don't anticipate (think of Galatea, the golem of Prague or Kolobok/Gingerbread man). If we think about this in terms of more terrestrial ways of creating a new entity, children are not inherently limited by their parents' understanding; neither of Einstein's parents had any glimpse of some of the things he was able to comprehend.

The 'twist' in PoE1 makes every bit as much sense as someone telling the player in Assassin's Creed: Odyssey "Galatea isn't real; she was carved out of marble by Pygmalion!" (and powered with the souls of nerieds or whatever) Why should anyone (including the player) give a shit? And you'll notice that the player's companions don't, not even the religious ones; the whole thing is disjointed, as if the authors tried to shove the plot of an odd-numbered Star Trek movie into a fantasy setting.

Parents Ancient Wizards do not create their children Gods, they are just vessels where they are material from which they are created/grown. God or Nature create children Gods. Einstein Eothas didn't do anything more or less than what humans as a race are capable of.

FTFY

If humans can create independent sentient creatures biologically, why couldn't they do the same through magic? Why would gods created by ancient thaumaturgy be less capable of reason or change than gods licked out of salt blocks (Buri) or created through deific masturbation (Shu and Tefnut)?

I do not think you understood what I wrote. You just wrote the same thing I did and just proved my point. Such creatures created by humans are still limited by the rules of that same world. True God writes those rules. Our children cannot write new rules, they are also limited to only exploring within the rules.

Or to give you an example I read from someone: We (humans) learned and created a lot of way to grow stuff from earth and soil but God creates earth and soil from nothing. All we can ever do is play with his Creation.

 

[Crichton]

So if the true God created Einstein and he's a creature with reason, free will and the capacity to grow and change; who created Eothas? and what makes you think Eothas and company are different in these respects than Einstein, Pallagina, you or me?

 

[Delterius]

Skaen allying with Woedica in PoE1 is a clear-cut example of this: it’s perfectly and fully logical for Skaen to ally with fallen and beaten Woedica, because that’s precisely the thing which opposes the current system in the most fundamental and definitive way.

The interesting thing is that Skaen refers to Woedica has his mistress in PoE2. Which makes me think he was always her frenemy. Skaen is the god of revenge, not the revolution. Woedica and Skaen need one another. Violence that begets tyranny, which begets revenge, and so on.

Gods were not summoned from some distant place

That's not what I said. Chanters don't summon creatures from other places, they excite the fabric of the beyond and let it crystallize into forms understood and commonly portrayed by mortals. Assuming that has anything to do with how the gods came into being and how they adopted their forms, it is no different from creation.

 

[ArchAngel]

So if the true God created Einstein and he's a creature with reason, free will and the capacity to grow and change; who created Eothas? and what makes you think Eothas and company are different in these respects than Einstein, Pallagina, you or me?

Kith in Eora created Eothas with their machines and soul power. Eothas and other gods are just a lot of souls crammed together with help of special machines.

 

[Crichton]

Do kith on Eora not have free will? What are kith but a bunch of souls crammed together with the help of special machines husbands plowing their wives?

 

[Desiderius]

So if the true God created Einstein and he's a creature with reason, free will and the capacity to grow and change; who created Eothas? and what makes you think Eothas and company are different in these respects than Einstein, Pallagina, you or me?

Kith in Eora created Eothas with their machines and soul power. Eothas and other gods are just a lot of souls crammed together with help of special machines.

 

[Suicidal]

I always had a somewhat different impression. System which Engwithans made worked like a clockwork overdesigned into pure perfection, that is: system proved itself to be too perfect. Gods were clearly designed, initially, as a functioning pantheon which would accommodate kin of every kind. There was a goddess of ruling, monarchs and of law in the same way in which there was a god of the downtrodden, the oppressed and hate social deficiencies could bear. There was even a rather typically evil god, at least I presume that Rymrgand was designed to fill that niche. It was all supposed to work out perfectly. And it did. It just so happened that, let’s say, primal distinguishing characteristics of each of the gods were much more potent than Engwithans initially envisioned them. Skaen allying with Woedica in PoE1 is a clear-cut example of this: it’s perfectly and fully logical for Skaen to ally with fallen and beaten Woedica, because that’s precisely the thing which opposes the current system in the most fundamental and definitive way. And Skaen is a god of opposing the system. Almost all the other cases of interactions between gods exhibit this flaw in the design. Engwithans did too good of a job. This, when you consider that gods are made from souls of kin, that is, that it’s natural for them to resemble kin in at least some way, eventually spiralled completely out of control. No matter how Thaos sees this he failed utterly, as of PoE1 he’s unable to stop the gods from clashing with each other and waging conflicts bore out of their designed core programming.

Of course, the matter is in all more complicated than that, all the mysteries introduced mainly in addons for PoE2 are of course interesting, but I don’t think that what we hear from Thaos directly and what he implies is wrong. Gods were not summoned from some distant place, gods were crafted to fill very specific, already existing mythological roles and they did and do just that.

I liked that bit in White March (which still is the best PoE related content by far) where they talk about the conflict between the god of technology and god of secrets (forgot the names) where the latter dropped a nuke on a city/country of the followers of the former because they were advancing too quickly, which caused the two gods to fight due to their conflicting directives. At times like these PoE gods seem less like gods and more like AI from dystopian stories.

 

[gurugeorge]

One thing I'm not completely clear on (and I may have missed some crucial bit of lore about this), but are the Eoran gods like artificial constructs made by the Engwithians (a bit like AIs as someone said above) constructed of and powered by human souls, or are they former Engwithian individuals who shed their mortality and "ascended" to become something like cosmic-level superheroes with specific power domains, via the soul power machines?

I must admit the banter between them reminds me very much of the bickering in an old superhero team in the comics (and of course that does go back to the Greek gods and that sort of thing) - which is actually something I quite like about the lore. They're like a mega-souped-up JLA or Authority The whole tone is very "science hero"-ey - like they were science bros who became gods. But I suppose it would make more sense for them to be completely artificial.

 

[Poseidon00]

One thing I'm not completely clear on (and I may have missed some crucial bit of lore about this), but are the Eoran gods like artificial constructs made by the Engwithians (a bit like AIs as someone said above) constructed of and powered by human souls, or are they former Engwithian individuals who shed their mortality and "ascended" to become something like cosmic-level superheroes with specific power domains, via the soul power machines?

I must admit the banter between them reminds me very much of the bickering in an old superhero team in the comics (and of course that does go back to the Greek gods and that sort of thing) - which is actually something I quite like about the lore. They're like a mega-souped-up JLA or Authority The whole tone is very "science hero"-ey - like they were science bros who became gods. But I suppose it would make more sense for them to be completely artificial.

I believe they are constructs, created with the souls of vaguely like-minded Engwithans who did the fusion dance to become one being. That is what I remember anyway

 

[gurugeorge]

One thing I'm not completely clear on (and I may have missed some crucial bit of lore about this), but are the Eoran gods like artificial constructs made by the Engwithians (a bit like AIs as someone said above) constructed of and powered by human souls, or are they former Engwithian individuals who shed their mortality and "ascended" to become something like cosmic-level superheroes with specific power domains, via the soul power machines?

I must admit the banter between them reminds me very much of the bickering in an old superhero team in the comics (and of course that does go back to the Greek gods and that sort of thing) - which is actually something I quite like about the lore. They're like a mega-souped-up JLA or Authority The whole tone is very "science hero"-ey - like they were science bros who became gods. But I suppose it would make more sense for them to be completely artificial.

I believe they are constructs, created with the souls of vaguely like-minded Engwithans who did the fusion dance to become one being. That is what I remember anyway

Right, so basically it was science bros x 9000 - like all the advanced thinkers in Engwithian-land deciding to sacrifice themselves to form these mega beings?

 

[Delterius]

One thing I'm not completely clear on (and I may have missed some crucial bit of lore about this), but are the Eoran gods like artificial constructs made by the Engwithians (a bit like AIs as someone said above) constructed of and powered by human souls, or are they former Engwithian individuals who shed their mortality and "ascended" to become something like cosmic-level superheroes with specific power domains, via the soul power machines?

I must admit the banter between them reminds me very much of the bickering in an old superhero team in the comics (and of course that does go back to the Greek gods and that sort of thing) - which is actually something I quite like about the lore. They're like a mega-souped-up JLA or Authority The whole tone is very "science hero"-ey - like they were science bros who became gods. But I suppose it would make more sense for them to be completely artificial.

I believe they are constructs, created with the souls of vaguely like-minded Engwithans who did the fusion dance to become one being. That is what I remember anyway

Right, so basically it was science bros x 9000 - like all the advanced thinkers in Engwithian-land deciding to sacrifice themselves to form these mega beings?

The final confrontation with Thaos shows a memory of a mass sacrifice by the Engwithans. They were aware of it and seemed willing to do it. There were entire families with their baby children doing it. Then Beast of Winter shows that ancient Ukaizo was fooled into a mass sacrifice of their own. What I wonder is if the Engwithans destroyed any other ancient civilizations that way.

 

[Nikanuur]

One thing I'm not completely clear on (and I may have missed some crucial bit of lore about this), but are the Eoran gods like artificial constructs made by the Engwithians (a bit like AIs as someone said above) constructed of and powered by human souls, or are they former Engwithian individuals who shed their mortality and "ascended" to become something like cosmic-level superheroes with specific power domains, via the soul power machines?

I must admit the banter between them reminds me very much of the bickering in an old superhero team in the comics (and of course that does go back to the Greek gods and that sort of thing) - which is actually something I quite like about the lore. They're like a mega-souped-up JLA or Authority The whole tone is very "science hero"-ey - like they were science bros who became gods. But I suppose it would make more sense for them to be completely artificial.

To be honest, I am perplexed the same way. Quick look on the "Origin" section at the Wiki showed the same Delterius already explained. However, I believe there were a couple of hints throughout the game suggesting that the player could become a god themselves?

https://pillarsofeternity.fandom.com/wiki/Deities#Pantheon

 

[gurugeorge]

One thing I'm not completely clear on (and I may have missed some crucial bit of lore about this), but are the Eoran gods like artificial constructs made by the Engwithians (a bit like AIs as someone said above) constructed of and powered by human souls, or are they former Engwithian individuals who shed their mortality and "ascended" to become something like cosmic-level superheroes with specific power domains, via the soul power machines?

I must admit the banter between them reminds me very much of the bickering in an old superhero team in the comics (and of course that does go back to the Greek gods and that sort of thing) - which is actually something I quite like about the lore. They're like a mega-souped-up JLA or Authority The whole tone is very "science hero"-ey - like they were science bros who became gods. But I suppose it would make more sense for them to be completely artificial.

I believe they are constructs, created with the souls of vaguely like-minded Engwithans who did the fusion dance to become one being. That is what I remember anyway

Right, so basically it was science bros x 9000 - like all the advanced thinkers in Engwithian-land deciding to sacrifice themselves to form these mega beings?

The final confrontation with Thaos shows a memory of a mass sacrifice by the Engwithans. They were aware of it and seemed willing to do it. There were entire families with their baby children doing it. Then Beast of Winter shows that ancient Ukaizo was fooled into a mass sacrifice of their own. What I wonder is if the Engwithans destroyed any other ancient civilizations that way.

Yeah it's starting to come back to me a bit more. But that about Ukaizo is interesting- to what end were the Huana (they were the ones who created Ukaizo, right?) sacrificed? Was it to create another god (if so which one(s), and that might be an interesting source of the conflict between the gods, maybe there's some lingering resentment there ).

 

[Delterius]

Yeah it's starting to come back to me a bit more. But that about Ukaizo is interesting- to what end were the Huana (they were the ones who created Ukaizo, right?) sacrificed? Was it to create another god (if so which one(s), and that might be an interesting source of the conflict between the gods, maybe there's some lingering resentment there ).

I think the Engwithans needed the Huana's resources and their own adra knowledge to set up the wheel. What I'm not sure about right now is if they were part of the sacrifice to create the gods, or if the gods waking up destroyed their civilization. Either way, for a setting that answered some rather fundamental questions right out of the gate (the gods are fake, they were created, etc) there's still a lot of mystery here and there.

I've said this before 5 times but its so weird that setpieces in Beast of Winter aren't a part of the main story of Deadfire.

 

[gurugeorge]

Btw, I'm actually playing Deadfire again atm, and here's a little PSA:- you can quite easily change the base classes of your companions by using the Full Respec Companions mod in combination with any of the alternative companion subclasses mods (there are three of them, so far as I'm aware).

If you create your own mod (say, using Lore Friendly Companion Class Changes as a base), then you can substitute any of the alternative subclass .gamedata setups in there, for your character of choice, from one of those 3 mods, then use Full Respec Companions, and when you respec - if you want to do it "in the wild" as I sometimes do, you can use the Linked Inn mod - that other set will come up for the level one choice.

Quite handy, although you're limited to the options made in those three mods, but there are quite a few of them for all the characters (all on their Descriptions pages), and I should imagine it's easy enough to use one of the others as a basis to create your own conbination and change the attribute stats appropriately, if you wanted to as well (by personalizing this mod). Reverting to the game's base given subclasses is easy, just delete any alternative mod for your character of choice from your made-up mod.

Warning: Full Respec Companions sits with the game's .exe, similarly to UMM, it's not an override mod - but it's easy enough to pop it in and then delete its files when you don't use it. I have some UMM mods going, so when I want to use FRC I just uninstall UMM, install FRC, use it, uninstall it, then reinstall UMM.

************

The modding situation for Deadfire is in a bit of a mess when it comes to non-override mods that modify AssemblyC#.dll. I think because POE modders used Patchwork, UMM/Doorstop never really caught on for Deadfire in the way that it so gloriously did for the Owlcat games. In another life, I might take it upon myself to convert all the really useful non-override mods for Deadfire (e.g. 6 man party, sort by item type - which thankfully now has a UMM version - etc.) into UMM mods, so that they could all run concurrently.

In particular, the game is crying out for someone to turn the old Unity Console mod (which actually can still be made to work, but it's a bit clunky) into a UMM mod, analogous to those 2 big tweaks mods for the 2 Owlcat games (Toy Box and the other one).

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Oh cool, definitely gonna try that.

 

[MajorMace]

Does someone know if they fixed the broken string bugs surrounding the smugglers area under Neketaka ? Ie. if you entered this map from the wrong side, they'd trigger some inconsistent dialogs iirc.
Also, is there a mod that polishes the slavers island faction ? It was extremely barebone in the base game, quite a disappointment.

 

[gurugeorge]

The main reason I'm playing this again is to do the 2 DLCs which I never got round to last time I played (and finished the main game). I'm quite enjoying the Seeker, Slayer Survivor DLC, it's a tasty little bit of extra gameplay and an interesting story. The storybook segments are particularly good.

I was piddling around comparing turn-based with RTwP. When I first got the game I started with a turn-based run and got about a third of the way through, so I picked up that team, tarted it up a bit, neatened it up, respeccing with the slightly deeper knowledge I have of the system now, and played a wee bit of turn-based. It's amazing how it's actually quite a bit harder in turn-based (and takes sooooo much longer) with the same mods and difficulty (PoTD), and although I think the UI layout is pretty stellar for a turn-based game, one still feels the mechanics really weren't designed for it. I mean, for example, I see the sense in having spells be cast on next turn, it probably squares away with the timings of things in RTwP in some sense, plus it's an interesting angle to have to forethink your spells, engagement and positioning. But it really isn't much fun because most of the time things have moved away from where you cast the spell by the time it's cast. I suppose the point is to hold the mobs in place with engagement or something, but eh, it's a bit faffy.

Compare and contrast with RTwP with your own tailored AI conditionals - smooth as butter, and much, much easier. The game just seems to be fundamentally designed around near-concurrent events, with DEX being really important - like, focus fire is a huge part of the RTwP gameplay, and that's just impossible in turn-based when one thing moves at a time.

It's interesting though, with that well-designed and very readable UI, and with a whole different set of mechanics, you can sense it would have an amazing feel as a turn-based game. Everything is quite transparent and readable, you can spend ages figuring out what's what, what's likely to work and what's not, right down to some fine detail, and (with the zoom mod) you can zoom right in and enjoy the pretty well-done and detailed animations and fx. On really wants it to be good, but it's not quite, at least not as good as RTwP.

 

[Agesilaus]

The main reason I'm playing this again is to do the 2 DLCs which I never got round to last time I played (and finished the main game). I'm quite enjoying the Seeker, Slayer Survivor DLC, it's a tasty little bit of extra gameplay and an interesting story. The storybook segments are particularly good.

I was piddling around comparing turn-based with RTwP When I first got the game I started with a turn-based run and got about a third of the way through, so I picked up that team, tarted it up a bit, neatened it up, respeccing with the slightly deeper knowledge I have of the system now, and played a wee bit of turn-based. It's amazing how it's actually quite a bit harder in turn-based (and takes sooooo much longer) with the same mods and difficulty (PoTD), and although I think the UI layout is pretty stellar for a turn-based game, one still feels the mechanics really weren't designed for it. I mean, for example, I see the sense in having spells be cast on next turn, it probably squares away with the timings of things in RTwP in some sense, plus it's an interesting angle to have to forethink your spells, engagement and positioning. But it really isn't much fun because most of the time things have moved away from where you cast the spell by the time it's cast. I suppose the point is to hold the mobs in place with engagement or something, but eh, it's a bit faffy.

Compare and contrast with RTwP with your own tailored AI conditionals - smooth as butter, and much, much easier. The game just seems to be fundamentally designed around near-concurrent events, with DEX being really important - like, focus fire is a huge part of the RTwP gameplay, and that's just impossible in turn-based when one thing moves at a time.

It's interesting though, with that well-designed and very readable UI, and with a whole different set of mechanics, you can sense it would have an amazing feel as a turn-based game. Everything is quite transparent and readable, you can spend ages figuring out what's what, what's likely to work and what's not, right down to some fine detail, and (with the zoom mod) you can zoom right in and enjoy the pretty well-done and detailed animations and fx. On really wants it to be good, but it's not quite, at least not as good as RTwP.

The game is definitely made for RTwP and tailored AI. I tried TBS once and quit immediately after the initial beach combats; it's very clear that the game is going to be effectively unplayable. Pathfinder series did a much better job of turning RTwP to TBS, and I think they have less trash mobs, too. I can glide through Pathfinder in TBS and it all makes sense, without actions being split over multiple turns.

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

I think I fell asleep playing PoE 5-10 times at my desk reading this lore garbage.

 

[ArchAngel]

The main reason I'm playing this again is to do the 2 DLCs which I never got round to last time I played (and finished the main game). I'm quite enjoying the Seeker, Slayer Survivor DLC, it's a tasty little bit of extra gameplay and an interesting story. The storybook segments are particularly good.

I was piddling around comparing turn-based with RTwP When I first got the game I started with a turn-based run and got about a third of the way through, so I picked up that team, tarted it up a bit, neatened it up, respeccing with the slightly deeper knowledge I have of the system now, and played a wee bit of turn-based. It's amazing how it's actually quite a bit harder in turn-based (and takes sooooo much longer) with the same mods and difficulty (PoTD), and although I think the UI layout is pretty stellar for a turn-based game, one still feels the mechanics really weren't designed for it. I mean, for example, I see the sense in having spells be cast on next turn, it probably squares away with the timings of things in RTwP in some sense, plus it's an interesting angle to have to forethink your spells, engagement and positioning. But it really isn't much fun because most of the time things have moved away from where you cast the spell by the time it's cast. I suppose the point is to hold the mobs in place with engagement or something, but eh, it's a bit faffy.

Compare and contrast with RTwP with your own tailored AI conditionals - smooth as butter, and much, much easier. The game just seems to be fundamentally designed around near-concurrent events, with DEX being really important - like, focus fire is a huge part of the RTwP gameplay, and that's just impossible in turn-based when one thing moves at a time.

It's interesting though, with that well-designed and very readable UI, and with a whole different set of mechanics, you can sense it would have an amazing feel as a turn-based game. Everything is quite transparent and readable, you can spend ages figuring out what's what, what's likely to work and what's not, right down to some fine detail, and (with the zoom mod) you can zoom right in and enjoy the pretty well-done and detailed animations and fx. On really wants it to be good, but it's not quite, at least not as good as RTwP.

The game is definitely made for RTwP and tailored AI. I tried TBS once and quit immediately after the initial beach combats; it's very clear that the game is going to be effectively unplayable. Pathfinder series did a much better job of turning RTwP to TBS, and I think they have less trash mobs, too. I can glide through Pathfinder in TBS and it all makes sense, without actions being split over multiple turns.

I only played POE2 on TB and finished it. It was fun and played well. You were probably just too lazy to learn the differences to RTwP that you were used to.