Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire + DLC Thread - now with turn-based combat!

[Nikanuur]

You reminded me trying out to continuously switch aggro towards always a new shooter. Whole team lined up, large spaces between one another, equipped with something shooting. First fire shot, enemy started to move against the shooter, the shooter started to run vaguely towards the second shooter. As soon as enemy got closer to the second shooter, that one started to shoot, the first ran in a different direction. Enemy switched aggro approach towards the second shooter, that shooter started to run towards the third shooter... etc.
Of course it worked only for one creature attacking, I had those two perks reloading on the run and faster running, and pulling out enemies from their groups carefully one by one was a requirement too. But it was fun to try it out at least several times and it worked.

 

[ArchAngel]

Oh and ticking spells are great in Turn Based mode (rays, walls). Their damage over duration is grealy compressed in TB mode.

Are you sure about this? I liked Deadfire in TB much more than RTwP, but one of the hiccups I remember is that ray spells didn't do as many ticks per turn as they should. The spell UI would give some astronomical damage number but if you actually cast it, you'd see very little damage done. I remember this specifically with Hand of Weal and Woe, which I loved in my RTwP playthough but was straight trash the 2nd time around in TB.

How did you deal with the 1-2 turns delayed basic skills and often-to-nothing lessened debuffs? This is not attempt to passively-aggressively fight you :D I am really curious because I wanted to like TB and didn't have the stomach for it. Maybe you can teach me to like it :D

I think for a lot of people, the TB didn't work because they loved optimizing "DPS" by minimizing recovery time and whatnot and that's just gone in TB, high initiative is useful for battlefield control, but stacking it infinitely is wasteful. It doesn't matter how much higher your initiative score is.

However a lot of other things worked better in TB. You could actually react to something like a spell being cast without it becoming moot 0.2 seconds later when something else happened. And the spell delays were part of that; I understand people's frustration with the UI since you often couldn't get an exact idea of how long the delay would be, but with those delays, you could be rational about the use of interrupts. This is particularly important for things like knockdown, which don't effect attacks, but are hugely important for interrupting hostile actions and setting up attacks for other party members (but you do actually have to look at the turn order, there's no point in using knockdown on someone whose turn is next and isn't casting).

Similarly, while I initially thought the action speed to initiative conversion was too crude, it actually works pretty nicely with the engagement system; high initiative lets you control the battlefield by forcing the enemy to eat engagement attacks to reposition. There's just no way to make that work with simultaneous movement, which is why RTwP kind of worked for 2E D&D but has been a bit of a mess for 3E/3.5/Pathfinder/Pillars. Not having to worry about animation speeds also opened up some interesting action economy with things like the free action self-buffs that fighters and wizards got so many of; much more fun to use in TB.

Maybe this was improved for Ultimate Edition but when I choose a spell on turn order list it shows me when the spell is going to go off (if initiative is not delayed by other ways) compared with others. And yes, I did use TB to cancel enemy casting.

What I found TB irritating for was fighting exploding undead yesterday. When they activate their explode ability they explode on same turn very fast. In Real Time if you notice it you can tell your melee guy to move away before they explode. After Eder ate 80 damage for first time, I had to switch everyone to ranged and kite them.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Firearms are just more satisfying to use, even if for pure damage you're better of with something like a Devoted/Assasin and that warbow that resets action on crit.

 

[Delterius]

Guns have a cool punch and besides the setting calls for them.

 

[ArchAngel]

OK, I found a useful place that explained how TB works.
So your character sheet initiative is only important for turn 1. Your initiative for later turns is then dependent on what you did on turn before. Each attack or spell has base initiative value which is modified by armor initiative modifier and other modifiers (like magic item that I found that reduces armor penalty to initiative). Moving seems to not be counted as any initiative usage and if you didn't attack or cast a spell this turn your initiative for next round is 0 (lower initiative is better).

There is another stat called cast time that some spells have that adds some number to your current initiative to determine when in initiative order your spell is going to go off. This stat is modified by action speed modifier but not armor (that one only works on initiative).
That means stat that controls action speed (I think Dexterity) is only useful for casters so you can get your spells off faster after you cast them.

Another interesting info is how duration works. Old time in seconds is now turned into turns. Every 6s = 1 turn, the rest is always rounded down.
As a result it seems you only need 14 Intelligence (+20% bonus) to get 1-2 more second out of most buffs and spells with durations. Everything above is going to waste and everything below does nothing due to rounding down system.

Due to this system having high Resolve is also not that useful because you need a lot to reduce durations of negative effects by a noticeable amount. Only useful for those that will tank stuff. You can also dump Resolve a bit (go under 10) and except for less Deflection it is not going to do much.

 

[Taim]

Every once in a while I need an autism check - I'm sure you guys are up to the task.

I have like 200+ hours in PoE 1 over several half started playthroughs and I had a blast with it - played everything but WM part 2 but at that point gaming fatigue had struck and I wanted to finish the goddamn game.

PoE 2 on the other hand...I just can't get into it. The combat is great and the muticlass options are cool (Ghostheart/Cipher was a ton of fun), but the game itself just feels so lifeless.

So much of my enjoyment of Beregost, Baldur's Gate, and Athkatla was how much "filler" shit there was. Not all of it was story critical so you had to actually explore the city. Also peasants had shit to say and there were a lot of potential things (hell some even added to your journal entries about shit happening in the region). There was also fantastic ambient sounds that helped sell the illusion of a bustling city (especially Athkatla). IWD 1 was combat heavy but the rpg segments - while few and far in between - were great. I haven't played it in years and could probably describe 80% of Easthaven and Kuldahar to a sketch artist.

Contrast that with PoE 2. I wrap up Port Maje and head to Dunnage. Dunnage feels incredibly fucking lazily designed. There's three small areas, either indoor locations or super small outdoor locations. There are almost no locals - every single person plays some quest role. I find someone who seems like a random dude with a cool story that leads to an option to train with him for 3000 gold - I think "hey that's kinda neat I haven't seen that before." Then I immediately find 6 more people that follow the exact same template - asking for the exact same amount of gold with the exact same responses.

So much of the dialogue feels templated this way.

My most recent playthrough I only made it to Dunnage before stopping but I had gotten as far as Neketaka before and, while that was better in some respects, the pacing was still all over the place. Someone on the codex made a great point that Athkatla and Baldur's gate did a great job of mixing combat in the city so it wasn't JUST a massive exposition dump before heading back into the wilderness. I think I got burned out on Neketaka because it was just nonstop talking.

The exploration sounds amazing on paper but a ton of these islands are boring as fuck with small areas with little to no dialogue and very few things of interest.

I don't know why I didn't feel this way in PoE 1, perhaps it was all the backer NPCs i didn't talk to that make the places feel more populated? I also think PoE 1 went quality(ish) over quantity with their urban centers. PoE 2 just feels like there's too much stuff that's half finished.

I could go on but I think my point is made.

TLDR: I'm sad that while the game has a great combat and aesthetics (except for the godawful fucking portraits compared to the first game) it feels lifeless and templated - even compared to PoE 1.

What are people's thoughts on this?

 

[Lacrymas]

There are literally only 5 plot critical quests, everything else is filler.

 

[Taim]

By filler I mean filler. Not related to any quests - main or side. The Infinity Engine games actually tried to make places feel like actual places and not empty theme parks.

Only 5 plot critical quests is another one of my laundry list of digs against the game.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

The way Neketaka is structured, if you need some variety you can get on a ship at any time. Swim around for a bit, smash a few islands then go back again. Start taking your OCD pills and stop expecting games to design around 0,0001% of weirdos who can't leave a location without looking under every rock.

 

[Maculo]

Every once in a while I need an autism check - I'm sure you guys are up to the task.

I have like 200+ hours in PoE 1 over several half started playthroughs and I had a blast with it - played everything but WM part 2 but at that point gaming fatigue had struck and I wanted to finish the goddamn game.

PoE 2 on the other hand...I just can't get into it. The combat is great and the muticlass options are cool (Ghostheart/Cipher was a ton of fun), but the game itself just feels so lifeless.

So much of my enjoyment of Beregost, Baldur's Gate, and Athkatla was how much "filler" shit there was. Not all of it was story critical so you had to actually explore the city. Also peasants had shit to say and there were a lot of potential things (hell some even added to your journal entries about shit happening in the region). There was also fantastic ambient sounds that helped sell the illusion of a bustling city (especially Athkatla). IWD 1 was combat heavy but the rpg segments - while few and far in between - were great. I haven't played it in years and could probably describe 80% of Easthaven and Kuldahar to a sketch artist.

Contrast that with PoE 2. I wrap up Port Maje and head to Dunnage. Dunnage feels incredibly fucking lazily designed. There's three small areas, either indoor locations or super small outdoor locations. There are almost no locals - every single person plays some quest role. I find someone who seems like a random dude with a cool story that leads to an option to train with him for 3000 gold - I think "hey that's kinda neat I haven't seen that before." Then I immediately find 6 more people that follow the exact same template - asking for the exact same amount of gold with the exact same responses.

So much of the dialogue feels templated this way.

My most recent playthrough I only made it to Dunnage before stopping but I had gotten as far as Neketaka before and, while that was better in some respects, the pacing was still all over the place. Someone on the codex made a great point that Athkatla and Baldur's gate did a great job of mixing combat in the city so it wasn't JUST a massive exposition dump before heading back into the wilderness. I think I got burned out on Neketaka because it was just nonstop talking.

The exploration sounds amazing on paper but a ton of these islands are boring as fuck with small areas with little to no dialogue and very few things of interest.

I don't know why I didn't feel this way in PoE 1, perhaps it was all the backer NPCs i didn't talk to that make the places feel more populated? I also think PoE 1 went quality(ish) over quantity with their urban centers. PoE 2 just feels like there's too much stuff that's half finished.

I could go on but I think my point is made.

TLDR: I'm sad that while the game has a great combat and aesthetics (except for the godawful fucking portraits compared to the first game) it feels lifeless and templated - even compared to PoE 1.

What are people's thoughts on this?

Why head to Dunnage second? Personally, I sailed around and explored the map as far as I could. The best part of Deadfire for me was just cruising around and finding trouble. The quests generally highlight what you are getting into, but exploration leaves each island a surprise.

Next, I would go Neketaka. In either case, I saved Dunnage and the critical path for dead last.

Deadfire is a great “give a murderhobo a ship” simulator. Once I get back to my PotD playthrough, I am kicking around the idea of an all-Cipher custom party (psychic kill team).

 

[Yosharian]

..I just can't get into it. The combat is great and the muticlass options are cool (Ghostheart/Cipher was a ton of fun), but the game itself just feels so lifeless.

Yup that's the game, enjoy it

 

[gurugeorge]

Every once in a while I need an autism check - I'm sure you guys are up to the task.

I have like 200+ hours in PoE 1 over several half started playthroughs and I had a blast with it - played everything but WM part 2 but at that point gaming fatigue had struck and I wanted to finish the goddamn game.

PoE 2 on the other hand...I just can't get into it. The combat is great and the muticlass options are cool (Ghostheart/Cipher was a ton of fun), but the game itself just feels so lifeless.

So much of my enjoyment of Beregost, Baldur's Gate, and Athkatla was how much "filler" shit there was. Not all of it was story critical so you had to actually explore the city. Also peasants had shit to say and there were a lot of potential things (hell some even added to your journal entries about shit happening in the region). There was also fantastic ambient sounds that helped sell the illusion of a bustling city (especially Athkatla). IWD 1 was combat heavy but the rpg segments - while few and far in between - were great. I haven't played it in years and could probably describe 80% of Easthaven and Kuldahar to a sketch artist.

Contrast that with PoE 2. I wrap up Port Maje and head to Dunnage. Dunnage feels incredibly fucking lazily designed. There's three small areas, either indoor locations or super small outdoor locations. There are almost no locals - every single person plays some quest role. I find someone who seems like a random dude with a cool story that leads to an option to train with him for 3000 gold - I think "hey that's kinda neat I haven't seen that before." Then I immediately find 6 more people that follow the exact same template - asking for the exact same amount of gold with the exact same responses.

So much of the dialogue feels templated this way.

My most recent playthrough I only made it to Dunnage before stopping but I had gotten as far as Neketaka before and, while that was better in some respects, the pacing was still all over the place. Someone on the codex made a great point that Athkatla and Baldur's gate did a great job of mixing combat in the city so it wasn't JUST a massive exposition dump before heading back into the wilderness. I think I got burned out on Neketaka because it was just nonstop talking.

The exploration sounds amazing on paper but a ton of these islands are boring as fuck with small areas with little to no dialogue and very few things of interest.

I don't know why I didn't feel this way in PoE 1, perhaps it was all the backer NPCs i didn't talk to that make the places feel more populated? I also think PoE 1 went quality(ish) over quantity with their urban centers. PoE 2 just feels like there's too much stuff that's half finished.

I could go on but I think my point is made.

TLDR: I'm sad that while the game has a great combat and aesthetics (except for the godawful fucking portraits compared to the first game) it feels lifeless and templated - even compared to PoE 1.

What are people's thoughts on this?

The sense of life and variety in POE2 you're talking about comes from exploring the many islands - there's a lot of stuff there. It still doesn't have the kind of "fluff" variety you're talking about within those areas, but in terms of the overall feel of the game, that content out there that you have to get to by exploring in your ship is what gets the game out of the claustrophobic feeling you might get in some of the set piece areas.

At least that's how I found it to be anyway.

 

[ArchAngel]

Every once in a while I need an autism check - I'm sure you guys are up to the task.

I have like 200+ hours in PoE 1 over several half started playthroughs and I had a blast with it - played everything but WM part 2 but at that point gaming fatigue had struck and I wanted to finish the goddamn game.

PoE 2 on the other hand...I just can't get into it. The combat is great and the muticlass options are cool (Ghostheart/Cipher was a ton of fun), but the game itself just feels so lifeless.

So much of my enjoyment of Beregost, Baldur's Gate, and Athkatla was how much "filler" shit there was. Not all of it was story critical so you had to actually explore the city. Also peasants had shit to say and there were a lot of potential things (hell some even added to your journal entries about shit happening in the region). There was also fantastic ambient sounds that helped sell the illusion of a bustling city (especially Athkatla). IWD 1 was combat heavy but the rpg segments - while few and far in between - were great. I haven't played it in years and could probably describe 80% of Easthaven and Kuldahar to a sketch artist.

Contrast that with PoE 2. I wrap up Port Maje and head to Dunnage. Dunnage feels incredibly fucking lazily designed. There's three small areas, either indoor locations or super small outdoor locations. There are almost no locals - every single person plays some quest role. I find someone who seems like a random dude with a cool story that leads to an option to train with him for 3000 gold - I think "hey that's kinda neat I haven't seen that before." Then I immediately find 6 more people that follow the exact same template - asking for the exact same amount of gold with the exact same responses.

So much of the dialogue feels templated this way.

My most recent playthrough I only made it to Dunnage before stopping but I had gotten as far as Neketaka before and, while that was better in some respects, the pacing was still all over the place. Someone on the codex made a great point that Athkatla and Baldur's gate did a great job of mixing combat in the city so it wasn't JUST a massive exposition dump before heading back into the wilderness. I think I got burned out on Neketaka because it was just nonstop talking.

The exploration sounds amazing on paper but a ton of these islands are boring as fuck with small areas with little to no dialogue and very few things of interest.

I don't know why I didn't feel this way in PoE 1, perhaps it was all the backer NPCs i didn't talk to that make the places feel more populated? I also think PoE 1 went quality(ish) over quantity with their urban centers. PoE 2 just feels like there's too much stuff that's half finished.

I could go on but I think my point is made.

TLDR: I'm sad that while the game has a great combat and aesthetics (except for the godawful fucking portraits compared to the first game) it feels lifeless and templated - even compared to PoE 1.

What are people's thoughts on this?

All you described here that you are missing is in Neketaka, it is basically Athkatla of this game with how much life and content they put into it. Makes the game feel like BG2, sometimes too much (there is even undercity filled with powerful undead :D)

I went there after Port Maje with only 2 stops to smaller islands and I have been there for last 20 hours of playtime and I have not even gone to part of the map where main missions is.

 

[Tenebris]

Every once in a while I need an autism check - I'm sure you guys are up to the task.

I have like 200+ hours in PoE 1 over several half started playthroughs and I had a blast with it - played everything but WM part 2 but at that point gaming fatigue had struck and I wanted to finish the goddamn game.

PoE 2 on the other hand...I just can't get into it. The combat is great and the muticlass options are cool (Ghostheart/Cipher was a ton of fun), but the game itself just feels so lifeless.

So much of my enjoyment of Beregost, Baldur's Gate, and Athkatla was how much "filler" shit there was. Not all of it was story critical so you had to actually explore the city. Also peasants had shit to say and there were a lot of potential things (hell some even added to your journal entries about shit happening in the region). There was also fantastic ambient sounds that helped sell the illusion of a bustling city (especially Athkatla). IWD 1 was combat heavy but the rpg segments - while few and far in between - were great. I haven't played it in years and could probably describe 80% of Easthaven and Kuldahar to a sketch artist.

Contrast that with PoE 2. I wrap up Port Maje and head to Dunnage. Dunnage feels incredibly fucking lazily designed. There's three small areas, either indoor locations or super small outdoor locations. There are almost no locals - every single person plays some quest role. I find someone who seems like a random dude with a cool story that leads to an option to train with him for 3000 gold - I think "hey that's kinda neat I haven't seen that before." Then I immediately find 6 more people that follow the exact same template - asking for the exact same amount of gold with the exact same responses.

So much of the dialogue feels templated this way.

My most recent playthrough I only made it to Dunnage before stopping but I had gotten as far as Neketaka before and, while that was better in some respects, the pacing was still all over the place. Someone on the codex made a great point that Athkatla and Baldur's gate did a great job of mixing combat in the city so it wasn't JUST a massive exposition dump before heading back into the wilderness. I think I got burned out on Neketaka because it was just nonstop talking.

The exploration sounds amazing on paper but a ton of these islands are boring as fuck with small areas with little to no dialogue and very few things of interest.

I don't know why I didn't feel this way in PoE 1, perhaps it was all the backer NPCs i didn't talk to that make the places feel more populated? I also think PoE 1 went quality(ish) over quantity with their urban centers. PoE 2 just feels like there's too much stuff that's half finished.

I could go on but I think my point is made.

TLDR: I'm sad that while the game has a great combat and aesthetics (except for the godawful fucking portraits compared to the first game) it feels lifeless and templated - even compared to PoE 1.

What are people's thoughts on this?

Deadfire tied too much content with kickstarter fig rewards. All those people for training were made by backers. It's Deadfire's version of those dumb gold plated npcs from the first game. The majority of the non critical path islands are also backer made which is why they're so devoid of content. Dunnage feels lazily done because they loaded all the content to Neketaka. Every other location only serves as a place to continue the 2 hour main quest. Obsidian should look at Deadfire as the golden standard for what happens when you overcorrect issues from the first game.

Spoiler

The new portraits we got are also all backer rewards which explains why they all look like nerds in cosplay.

 

[ArchAngel]

Lol I went to the Adra teleportation quest that ended up in that other realm. I fought a boss there that is easy to beat but has too much HP and right after the fight one of the Gods shows up and kills my party.. no save after the boss fight lol.
Now I have to do the whole map again..
Fuck you Obsidian.

 

[Taim]

The argument that I'm wrong about Neketaka is probably accurate - it's been many years since I made a playthrough where I got that far before bouncing off. Glad to hear it's a good "big city."

Generally my problem is if you have 3 good big areas but 10 half finished shitty areas those 10 areas sap my enjoyment of the game. Most areas in the Infinity Engine games felt very detailed, large, and fleshed out. There were very few "small maps" that had very few things of interest. In fact, for better or for worse, pretty much every wilderness area in BG1/2 had the exact same dimensions AFAIK.

I would rather the game be half the size but the areas were actually fleshed out. Having cities with very few locations (and the locations that are there feel incredibly empty) is a major buzzkill for me.

I remember Kingmaker having similar problems but it wasn't as egregious (haven't played much of WoTR to comment on that one).

Anyway, glad not everyone had the same problem.

The sense of life and variety in POE2 you're talking about comes from exploring the many islands - there's a lot of stuff there. It still doesn't have the kind of "fluff" variety you're talking about within those areas, but in terms of the overall feel of the game, that content out there that you have to get to by exploring in your ship is what gets the game out of the claustrophobic feeling you might get in some of the set piece areas.

At least that's how I found it to be anyway.

Perhaps I should stop expecting it to be Baldur's Gate and modify my expectations to this game's strengths. For me, easier said than done, but I hope at some point I can get into the flow of the game and not keep bouncing off of it.

 

[Haplo]

Lol I went to the Adra teleportation quest that ended up in that other realm. I fought a boss there that is easy to beat but has too much HP and right after the fight one of the Gods shows up and kills my party.. no save after the boss fight lol.
Now I have to do the whole map again..
Fuck you Obsidian.

Well, maaaybe shit talking to the god of Entropy in his own realm wasn't such a bright idea, huh?
Who could have thought?

 

[ArchAngel]

Lol I went to the Adra teleportation quest that ended up in that other realm. I fought a boss there that is easy to beat but has too much HP and right after the fight one of the Gods shows up and kills my party.. no save after the boss fight lol.
Now I have to do the whole map again..
Fuck you Obsidian.

Well, maaaybe shit talking to the god of Entropy in his own realm wasn't such a bright idea, huh?
Who could have thought?

I didn't. Conversation is badly made. First time I told him I am Chosen of Berath and he would be angry and got the reply he does not care and starts killing me. I click Say nothing option and we all die.
2nd time I first say that I can be useful to him if he leaves me alone and he says Don't care and starts killing me. This time I say Wait and he says He will spare me because he does not want to anger Berath.. sorry but this is retarded Obsidian.
2 out of 3 options in 2nd reply kill you and whatever you choose in first reply means nothing and even directly contradicts what happens if you chose right option later..

 

[gurugeorge]

The argument that I'm wrong about Neketaka is probably accurate - it's been many years since I made a playthrough where I got that far before bouncing off. Glad to hear it's a good "big city."

Generally my problem is if you have 3 good big areas but 10 half finished shitty areas those 10 areas sap my enjoyment of the game. Most areas in the Infinity Engine games felt very detailed, large, and fleshed out. There were very few "small maps" that had very few things of interest. In fact, for better or for worse, pretty much every wilderness area in BG1/2 had the exact same dimensions AFAIK.

I would rather the game be half the size but the areas were actually fleshed out. Having cities with very few locations (and the locations that are there feel incredibly empty) is a major buzzkill for me.

I remember Kingmaker having similar problems but it wasn't as egregious (haven't played much of WoTR to comment on that one).

Anyway, glad not everyone had the same problem.

The sense of life and variety in POE2 you're talking about comes from exploring the many islands - there's a lot of stuff there. It still doesn't have the kind of "fluff" variety you're talking about within those areas, but in terms of the overall feel of the game, that content out there that you have to get to by exploring in your ship is what gets the game out of the claustrophobic feeling you might get in some of the set piece areas.

At least that's how I found it to be anyway.

Perhaps I should stop expecting it to be Baldur's Gate and modify my expectations to this game's strengths. For me, easier said than done, but I hope at some point I can get into the flow of the game and not keep bouncing off of it.

Just get out there in your boat and start a-wandering, get the sea shanties going, keep your crew fed and watered for the long journeys, discover new islands, explore them (and there's usually at least one tactical map to found on most of them, like a buried temple or a cave or something). That feeling of exploration and discovery is more the overall feel of Deadfire - that interleaved with the main story and main side quests.

 

[Roguey]

Only 5 plot critical quests is another one of my laundry list of digs against the game.

Fallout is great because the number of things you're required to do is low and more RPGs ought to be more like it. Arcanum is the opposite and it's awful.

 

[Maculo]

The argument that I'm wrong about Neketaka is probably accurate - it's been many years since I made a playthrough where I got that far before bouncing off. Glad to hear it's a good "big city."

Generally my problem is if you have 3 good big areas but 10 half finished shitty areas those 10 areas sap my enjoyment of the game. Most areas in the Infinity Engine games felt very detailed, large, and fleshed out. There were very few "small maps" that had very few things of interest. In fact, for better or for worse, pretty much every wilderness area in BG1/2 had the exact same dimensions AFAIK.

I wouldn’t say Deadfire’s islands feel unfinished, but they are not all even with respect to content; some have cult lairs and monsters, some just have a rice field and rum.

 

[ArchAngel]

The exploration parts of this game feel a lot like Storm of Zehir, both good and bad parts.
The major city is all BG2

 

[Yosharian]

Comparing Neketaka to Athlkatla is like comparing Fallout to TOW.

 

[roshan]

Is this game worth playing? Itching for a party based, 2D isometric fantasy RPG.

 

[ArchAngel]

Is this game worth playing? Itching for a party based, 2D isometric fantasy RPG.

I look at this like WL3, I had low expectations when starting but I find it better than game that came before it.
Still worse than both Pathfinder games and BG games but better than most of the shit that is released.