Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire + DLC Thread - now with turn-based combat!

[Lacrymas]

You take dominate animal at least at the start with the sole purpose of dealing with the initial island, then you can respec if you find it too situational.

 

[ArchAngel]

You take dominate animal at least at the start with the sole purpose of dealing with the initial island, then you can respec if you find it too situational.

That is called metagaming and it is not done by someone playing 1st time and not knowing what enemies await me. Also except for this fight, no other animal enemy was a problem.

 

[Lacrymas]

All the foolproof tactics for the drake fight are metagaming, there is no way around it, it's a very tough fight. I'd say all pre-written tactics are metagaming. It also depends on your definition of metagaming. Is it metagaming if someone tells you that dominate animal is a useful spell and you should probably get it? Maybe it is, but if that's the case and you don't want that, why are you asking on a forum? ;d

 

[ArchAngel]

All the foolproof tactics for the drake fight are metagaming, there is no way around it, it's a very tough fight. I'd say all pre-written tactics are metagaming. It also depends on your definition of metagaming. Is it metagaming if someone tells you that dominate animal is a useful spell and you should probably get it? Maybe it is, but if that's the case and you don't want that, why are you asking on a forum? ;d

I was not asking for tips or help, I was commenting. If you read it you would see I am beyond that point and I was not looking for tips. I even explained how I circumvented that fight Art of War style.

 

[Maculo]

I see the drake continues to take people's butt virginity. This pleases me. Gorecci street is imo harder than the drake and the only fight I needed to recruit an extra mercenary to handle. Drake really depends on what class you are if you are going with Eder and Xoti, being a Druid massively lightens the fight.

How? Panthers took out my druid in one turn :D
Maybe I should put Heavier armor on him. I try to use Leather armor or Robes to reduce Initiative penalty as my main idea was to spam spells and pistol from the back row and only use bear shape as last resort but it seems AI all charges back line and there is nothing in the game to stop them. Eder stands in front but he only engages enemies on his turn..

I played recently on PotD and the digsite/drake fight took me a couple of tries ( RtwP though). At that point, I would recommend hiring an adventurer or two to either solidly the frontline and/or can charm/dominate some enemies. My cipher was spamming dominate/charm on the drake the entire time.

I believe Druid has dominate/charm animal, which you can use to take either the drake or panthers out of commission. Scrolls or spells that debuff willpower before hand come in handy too.

I was avoiding hiring silent random mercs. If I like the game well enough and learn how to make characters I might do another run and have full merc party.
And I didn't take beast manipulating spells since you can only have a few and I never pick spells that only work on one group of enemies. This is a problem 2x worse with this PoE2 system, at least in IE games you have all spells and while you will never fill your limited spell slots with such spells you have the option to change them, rest and go do the fight.
Here everyone is a fucking sorcerer and you should never pick spells that don't have universal use unless you already played the game and you are just metagaming the shit out of it.

I get it 100%. I was the same way when I first played. Personally, Mercenaries felt too metagamey to me, and I wanted to prioritize story companions. Years later I realized there were a lot of systems I glossed over, particularly the buff and debuff combos. Then, you get into the counters.

The problem with the intro imo is that you don’t have a full party or toolset to play with. Otherwise, the drake/digsite fight can be decent intro into how to break an encounter.

 

[ArchAngel]

Funny game. In most battles with more enemies I had so far I lost all my encounter spells/abilities half way and had to just use standard attack the rest of the way.
Boss so far has been Aloth that has some lvl 2 necrotic spell that does crazy amount of damage. He does like 70 per normal hit (40+30) and then it does some damage on next turn. My priest and druid so far have nothing similar although 3 turns of being a bear usually gives me decent damage (about 2x15 per turn).

I didn't figure out yet how to use Empower to recover used encounter spells/abilities. Not sure if hints give me some wrong info, if it cannot be done with a controller or if I am missing something.

 

[Lacrymas]

If you want damage, cat form is the way to go ;d As for the empowers, you click on the spell level to get back uses (not the spell itself, the little I, II, III and so on you have to click to get the list if spells for that level). You can also click on your character to get class resources iirc.

 

[ArchAngel]

If you want damage, cat form is the way to go ;d As for the empowers, you click on the spell level to get back uses (not the spell itself, the little I, II, III and so on you have to click to get the list if spells for that level). You can also click on your character to get class resources iirc.

Too late now, I don't plan to respec unless I manage to somehow completely destroy my character and during character creating there was no explanation what each form does. I chose bear because usually they do most damage.

 

[Haplo]

Probably not in Turn Based mode, though. Here only the power of a single attack counts, not attack speed.
So I guess bear was the correct choice (it also has great Armor AFAIR).

And yes, invest in nukers.
Since in a single round you can either swing your sword once or cast a spell to damage x enemies, often for more damage, the latter is clearly superior.

Oh and ticking spells are great in Turn Based mode (rays, walls). Their damage over duration is grealy compressed in TB mode.

 

[razvedchiki]

will a musket heavy party work better in turn based or real time?
also are grenades worth using?

 

[Crichton]

Oh and ticking spells are great in Turn Based mode (rays, walls). Their damage over duration is grealy compressed in TB mode.

Are you sure about this? I liked Deadfire in TB much more than RTwP, but one of the hiccups I remember is that ray spells didn't do as many ticks per turn as they should. The spell UI would give some astronomical damage number but if you actually cast it, you'd see very little damage done. I remember this specifically with Hand of Weal and Woe, which I loved in my RTwP playthough but was straight trash the 2nd time around in TB.

 

[Haplo]

will a musket heavy party work better in turn based or real time?
also are grenades worth using?

Turn Based. With the +20 Accuracy modal.
They are slow, but in TB you don't care.
Although Red Hand is better in real time, I guess (double shot there).

Grenades? You mean after the digsite? Not sure, probably not (think there are some fairly potent poisons though).

 

[Yosharian]

Didn't they change the way the ray spells worked in TB? I'm sure there was a patch that significantly reduced their effectiveness. They used to be fucking nuts.

 

[Haplo]

Although offense-wise, the boar shape might be best sure to the nasty DOT it inflicts.

 

[Haplo]

Didn't they change the way the ray spells worked in TB? I'm sure there was a patch that significantly reduced their effectiveness. They used to be fucking nuts.

Did they? A shame.

 

[Nikanuur]

Oh and ticking spells are great in Turn Based mode (rays, walls). Their damage over duration is grealy compressed in TB mode.

Are you sure about this? I liked Deadfire in TB much more than RTwP, but one of the hiccups I remember is that ray spells didn't do as many ticks per turn as they should. The spell UI would give some astronomical damage number but if you actually cast it, you'd see very little damage done. I remember this specifically with Hand of Weal and Woe, which I loved in my RTwP playthough but was straight trash the 2nd time around in TB.

How did you deal with the 1-2 turns delayed basic skills and often-to-nothing lessened debuffs? This is not attempt to passively-aggressively fight you :D I am really curious because I wanted to like TB and didn't have the stomach for it. Maybe you can teach me to like it :D

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Grenades suck monumental dick, poisons are okay though.

 

[Tygrende]

will a musket heavy party work better in turn based or real time?
also are grenades worth using?

I only have experience with real time but I did beat the game on PotD and Eothas challenge with a custom party that only used arquebuses (and occasionally bows vs. pierce immunes, before I could reliably destroy those with red hand and dragon's dowry).

The key was to focus on weapon swaps like you would in the first game, but in Deadfire this works even better. Black Jackets eventually get 4 weapons slots and instant swap, plus attacks made from stealth have their recovery (including reload) time reduced to almost zero, which means that 5 custom black jackets/assassins can shoot 25 times within seconds. Wouldn't work in turn based at all. In turn based you should probably focus on stacking reload time reductions instead, but the way math in Deadfire works it eventually starts having very diminishing returns. Never actually played TB though, reload speed might be useless.

It was fun, made some parts of the game a lot harder, but trivialized others, bosses especially. I made a video of killing the sea dragon with it a long time ago, that's basically how all boss battles went for the most part.

Grenades suck monumental dick, poisons are okay though.

They are okay for starting combat with reverse pickpocket though. They get a huge damage and absurd accuracy bonus that way, practically guranteed to crit.

 

[Crichton]

Oh and ticking spells are great in Turn Based mode (rays, walls). Their damage over duration is grealy compressed in TB mode.

Are you sure about this? I liked Deadfire in TB much more than RTwP, but one of the hiccups I remember is that ray spells didn't do as many ticks per turn as they should. The spell UI would give some astronomical damage number but if you actually cast it, you'd see very little damage done. I remember this specifically with Hand of Weal and Woe, which I loved in my RTwP playthough but was straight trash the 2nd time around in TB.

How did you deal with the 1-2 turns delayed basic skills and often-to-nothing lessened debuffs? This is not attempt to passively-aggressively fight you :D I am really curious because I wanted to like TB and didn't have the stomach for it. Maybe you can teach me to like it :D

I think for a lot of people, the TB didn't work because they loved optimizing "DPS" by minimizing recovery time and whatnot and that's just gone in TB, high initiative is useful for battlefield control, but stacking it infinitely is wasteful. It doesn't matter how much higher your initiative score is.

However a lot of other things worked better in TB. You could actually react to something like a spell being cast without it becoming moot 0.2 seconds later when something else happened. And the spell delays were part of that; I understand people's frustration with the UI since you often couldn't get an exact idea of how long the delay would be, but with those delays, you could be rational about the use of interrupts. This is particularly important for things like knockdown, which don't effect attacks, but are hugely important for interrupting hostile actions and setting up attacks for other party members (but you do actually have to look at the turn order, there's no point in using knockdown on someone whose turn is next and isn't casting).

Similarly, while I initially thought the action speed to initiative conversion was too crude, it actually works pretty nicely with the engagement system; high initiative lets you control the battlefield by forcing the enemy to eat engagement attacks to reposition. There's just no way to make that work with simultaneous movement, which is why RTwP kind of worked for 2E D&D but has been a bit of a mess for 3E/3.5/Pathfinder/Pillars. Not having to worry about animation speeds also opened up some interesting action economy with things like the free action self-buffs that fighters and wizards got so many of; much more fun to use in TB.

 

[Nikanuur]

I think for a lot of people, the TB didn't work because they loved optimizing "DPS" by minimizing recovery time and whatnot and that's just gone in TB, high initiative is useful for battlefield control, but stacking it infinitely is wasteful. It doesn't matter how much higher your initiative score is.

However a lot of other things worked better in TB. You could actually react to something like a spell being cast without it becoming moot 0.2 seconds later when something else happened. And the spell delays were part of that; I understand people's frustration with the UI since you often couldn't get an exact idea of how long the delay would be, but with those delays, you could be rational about the use of interrupts. This is particularly important for things like knockdown, which don't effect attacks, but are hugely important for interrupting hostile actions and setting up attacks for other party members (but you do actually have to look at the turn order, there's no point in using knockdown on someone whose turn is next and isn't casting).

Similarly, while I initially thought the action speed to initiative conversion was too crude, it actually works pretty nicely with the engagement system; high initiative lets you control the battlefield by forcing the enemy to eat engagement attacks to reposition. There's just no way to make that work with simultaneous movement, which is why RTwP kind of worked for 2E D&D but has been a bit of a mess for 3E/3.5/Pathfinder/Pillars. Not having to worry about animation speeds also opened up some interesting action economy with things like the free action self-buffs that fighters and wizards got so many of; much more fun to use in TB.

But look at the bones strprfeeewwn... the teeeth!

Oh, sorry, I got distracted.
Anyway.
A-ha! Another case of open mindedness showing us yet again how a broader view can lift the detriment of fun! I am grateful for this. Honor to all Shofixti!

 

[razvedchiki]

will a musket heavy party work better in turn based or real time?
also are grenades worth using?

I only have experience with real time but I did beat the game on PotD and Eothas challenge with a custom party that only used arquebuses (and occasionally bows vs. pierce immunes, before I could reliably destroy those with red hand and dragon's dowry).

The key was to focus on weapon swaps like you would in the first game, but in Deadfire this works even better. Black Jackets eventually get 4 weapons slots and instant swap, plus attacks made from stealth have their recovery (including reload) time reduced to almost zero, which means that 5 custom black jackets/assassins can shoot 25 times within seconds. Wouldn't work in turn based at all. In turn based you should probably focus on stacking reload time reductions instead, but the way math in Deadfire works it eventually starts having very diminishing returns. Never actually played TB though, reload speed might be useless.

It was fun, made some parts of the game a lot harder, but trivialized others, bosses especially. I made a video of killing the sea dragon with it a long time ago, that's basically how all boss battles went for the most part.

Grenades suck monumental dick, poisons are okay though.

They are okay for starting combat with reverse pickpocket though. They get a huge damage and absurd accuracy bonus that way, practically guranteed to crit.

hehe nice gun line! so its not advisable throw grenades after some volleys?

 

[Tygrende]

hehe nice gun line! so its not advisable throw grenades after some volleys?

I tried to make that work but it really doesn't. The biggest issue is accuracy, it sucks even if you level explosives. And even if you do hit/crit, the damage and length of effects are meh. If 25 shots were not enough to finish the fight, my strategy was usually to kite with 1-2 guys while the others reloaded or to smoke veil away. Kiting works especially well with arterial strike, that thing deals silly damage if you make enemies run for whole duration.

 

[razvedchiki]

In pillars 1 i opened each battle with a volley from all party members and then i started swinging with a couple of zweihanders and the dedicated arquebusiers continued delivering lively fire to them enemies. usually worked until some mob got past the front ranks and started headbutting my fire line.

 

[Tygrende]

That works, I just wanted to go 100% arquebus only for the sake of it. They're inferior to other ranged when it comes to sustained DPS, but taking advantage of their highest base damage with instant weapon swap with 4 slots makes them rather strong in a unique way. If you are not going to build around swapping, I'd replace black jackets with either sharpshooters (for reload speed and other ranged stuff) or bleak walkers (flames of devotion with added acid, hits like a truck) and one chanter for the reload speed chant. All multiclassed with assassin.

 

[Cyberarmy]

I only have experience with real time but I did beat the game on PotD and Eothas challenge with a custom party that only used arquebuses (and occasionally bows vs. pierce immunes, before I could reliably destroy those with red hand and dragon's dowry).

This is glorious!