Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire + DLC Thread - now with turn-based combat!

[Darth Roxor]

Caed Nua was 10 times better than the ship as a stronghold

per complanca

 

[fantadomat]

Caed Nua was 10 times better than the ship as a stronghold

per complanca

You can spam the speaker icon to hear it,it is amazing,such advanced technology!

 

[Safav Hamon]

Keep the scripters, and artist , hire mca as writer , fire sawyer and just put some random neckbeard AD&D 2E DM enthusiast as director instead and i am pretty sure you could get a real BG3.

I'm going to share some controversial opinions that I will probably regret later...

- Infinity Engine combat was ass. D&D was never designed to be implemented in real time. Deadfire is lightyears better for the recovery system alone.

- 2E AD&D was awful. That system aged poorly, and lacks basic modern RPG concepts such as talent progression and skills. Most of the class distinctions were based on poorly balanced arbitrary numbers, and battles were plagued with RNG.

- If MCA were the writer, this game would be full of long winded rambling and pretentious psuedo-philosophy. You guys think it's bad already, but he's the worst offender when it comes to that style of writing.

- Josh Sawyer is the reason for the incline in this game. The encounter design, multiclass/subclass options, itemization, and most of the other combat based improvements were all because he was project leader.

 

[Shadenuat]

Josh pls.

 

[Prime Junta]

Safav Hamon

1. wtfamireading.gif
2. duh, AD&D is a trainwreck as well as a great nostalgiafag detector
3. burn the heretic
4. well yes but he's also the reason for the hilariously broken shit, e.g. the multiclassing

 

[Safav Hamon]

I told you it would be controversial, but deep down you all know it to be true.

 

[Shadenuat]

lacks basic modern RPG concepts such as talent progression and skills

 

[fantadomat]

Keep the scripters, and artist , hire mca as writer , fire sawyer and just put some random neckbeard AD&D 2E DM enthusiast as director instead and i am pretty sure you could get a real BG3.

I'm going to share some controversial opinions that I will probably regret later...

- Infinity Engine combat was ass. D&D was never designed to be implemented in real time. Deadfire is lightyears better for the recovery system alone.

- 2E AD&D was awful. That system aged poorly, and lacks basic modern RPG concepts such as talent progression and skills. Most of the class distinctions were based on poorly balanced arbitrary numbers, and battles were plagued with RNG.

- If MCA were the writer, this game would be full of long winded rambling and pretentious psuedo-philosophy. You guys think it's bad already, but he's the worst offender when it comes to that style of writing.

- Josh Sawyer is the reason for the incline in this game. The encounter design, multiclass/subclass options, itemization, and most of the other combat based improvements were all because he was project leader.

We all know that you are a 15 year old faggot and PoE is the greatest rpg that you have seen because you haven't seen any others.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

I think Josh is just used to working with top class writers of old Obsidian, so he keeps making the mistake of going for all this psychobabble, thinking the team can pull it off. Whereas both games would be infinitely better if all the Deep Lore nonsense was reduced to minimum.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Caed Nua’s biggest sin was having to take time off questing to revisit it for random attacks/events/visitors. It’s mechanics weren’t particularly interesting, but they weren’t intrusive most of the time either. Purchasing upgrades for the keep took all of 7 seconds to do in the menus. It was also easy to ignore.

The ship screams for your attention from the moment you get it - position the crew, feed the crew (or don’t and get a permanent character bonus for putting down a mutiny... but you’ll still need to get a new crew and feed them), hey what do we do with these fish, hey wanna play orlan’s head, 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 can I fight now?, etc, etc, etc...

Once it stops being fresh, it gets tedious and makes me less enthusiastic about picking up the game to give it another run through, even though on the whole the game was a pretty enjoyable experience.

 

[Shadenuat]

Not apart of the core rules, and was largely dependent on player input.

Core rules:

Table 37:
Nonweapon Proficiency Groups
General
# o Relevant Che
Proficiency Required Ability Modifier
Agriculture 1 Intelligence 0
Animal Handling 1 Wisdom -1
Animal Training 1 Wisdom 0
ility Artistic Ab 1 Wisdom 0
Blacksmithing 1 Strength 0
Brewing 1 Intelligence 0
y Carpentr 1 Strength 0
Cobbling 1 Dexterity 0
ce Cooking 1 Intelligen 0
Dancing 1 Dexterity 0
Sense Direction 1 Wisdom +1
tiquette 1 Charisma 0 E
Fire-bu
ishing F 1 Wisdom -1
Heraldry 1 Intelligence 0
ern Languages, Mod 1 Intelligence 0
rking Leatherwo 1 Intelligence 0
Mining 2 Wisdom -3
Pottery 1 Dexterity -2
Riding, Airborne 2 Wisdom -2
Riding, Land-based 1 Wisdom +3
Rope Use 1 Dexterity 0
Seamanship 1 Dexterity +1
Seamstress/Tailor 1 Dexterity -1
Singing 1 Charisma 0
onry Stonemas 1 Strength -2
Swimming 1 Strength 0
eather Se 1 Wisdom -1 W
W
Priest
ifier
ory
2 e
cient e
strument
e
e
e
f Slots k
roficiency Required Ability Modifier
istory 1 Intelligence -1
ppraising e
tory
e
uism
# of Slots Relevant Check
cy Required Ability Modifier
nimal Lore e
tcher
n
# of Slots Relevant Check
Proficiency Required Ability Mod
Ancient Hist 1 Intelligence -1
Astrology 2 Intelligence 0
Engineering 2 Intelligence -3
Healing 2 Wisdom -2
Herbalism Intelligenc -2
Languages, An 1 Intelligenc 0
Local History 1 Charisma 0
Musical In 1 Dexterity -1
Navigation 1 Intelligenc -2
Reading/Writing 1 Intelligenc +1
Religion 1 Wisdom 0
Spellcraft 1 Intelligenc -2
Rogue
# o Relevant Chec
P
Ancient H
A 1 Intelligenc 0
Blind-fighting 2 NA NA
Disguise 1 Charisma -1
Forgery 1 Dexterity -1
Gaming 1 Charisma 0
Gem Cutting 2 Dexterity -2
Juggling 1 Dexterity -1
Jumping 1 Strength 0
Local His 1 Charisma 0
Musical Instrument 1 Dexterity -1
Reading Lips 2 Intelligenc -2
Set Snares 1 Dexterity -1
Tightrope Walking 1 Dexterity 0
Tumbling 1 Dexterity 0
Ventriloq 1 Intelligence -2
Warrior
Proficien
A 1 Intelligenc 0
Armorer 2 Intelligence -2
Blind-fighting 2 NA NA
Bowyer/Fle 1 Dexterity -1
Charioteering 1 Dexterity +2
Endurance 2 Constitutio 0
Gaming 1 Charisma 0
Hunting 1 Wisdom -1
Mountaineering 1 NA NA
Navigation 1 Intelligence -2
Running 1 Constituti -6 on
urvival 2 Intelligence 0
racking 2 Wisdom 0
Intelligence -3
# of Slots Relevant Check
Modifier
nce -1
elligence 0
ence -3
erity -2
elligence -2
lligence 0
lligence -2
lligence +1
0
raft -2
mpt is automatically successful, or
lly
Set Snares 1 Intelligence -1
S
T
Weaponsmithing 3
izard W
Proficiency Required Ability
ellige Ancient History 1 Int
t Astrology 2 In
ring Enginee 2 Intellig
ext Gem Cutting 2 D
ism Herbal 2 Int
Languages, Ancient 1 Inte
Inte Navigation 1
Reading/Writing 1 Inte
ion Relig 1 Wisdom
pellc 1 Intelligenc

(pdf copypasta fucks shit up)

Not apart of the core rules

that's not what you said, motherfucker.

You said AD&D just lacked skills/talents. Please don't run from your own arguments.

 

[Safav Hamon]

I stand corrected. I only played it once a long time ago, and don't have the clearest memory. It's still ass though.

 

[Shadenuat]

I only played it once a long time ago, and don't have the clearest memory

But of course.

 

[Safav Hamon]

I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong. AD&D was 20 years ago.

 

[Ulfhednar]

I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong. AD&D was 20 years ago.

More like 40...

 

[Shadenuat]

I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong. AD&D was 20 years ago.

Why even make an argument then?

AD&D had a lot of roleplaying options. If IE implemented all of them - like giving paladins fookin pegasus mounts and followers and searching for their holy swords - many classes there would be even more interesting than in PoE.
Problem is, many options would also be about roleplaying; you woudn't pick Wyrmslayer kit, to become one you'd have to go and slay some wyrms.
So a) many options were more about roleplaying & b) their mechanics & distribution was fucking ass (gotta love them separate percentage tables for everything).

3d edition systemized everything in a superior way, like kits becoming prestiges, but it kinda also made game more about picking awesome classes to get more BAB. But let's not lie that options did not exist there to begin with.

Fact is though, modern RPGs do not lack in talents and getting abilities to hit enemies. But for some reason they do not have paladins achieve pegasus mounts, search for holy swords and slay wyrms. Dat shit is harder to do than reducing devoted flames from 50% to 20% damage you see. Now that's fucking unique feature any class wants, massive progress.

Talents and skills, I mean, seriously? What do these even DO in PoE? Allow you to pass dialogue in a different way even if you can pass it anyway by clicking on another line? Do they really strongly affect how you go through the game, or can you replace them with 5 grappling hooks?

"modern rpg concepts" pffff.

 

[TT1]

lacks basic modern RPG concepts such as talent progression and skills

Best rpg book ever made

 

[Shadenuat]

Let's even imagine the very simple skill system in spirit of AD&D.

You get to pick bunch of skills, and their rolls are modified by your stats.

You can't put points into them like a dumb autist every level (or every second level, for more balance!! and more CHOICE because players gotta have CHOICE meaning putting meaningless points everywhere!!), but they do have actual in-game applications. Like, Gemcutting - you can increase value of gems you find, and change raw gems into gems that can be used in crafting/spellcasting.

Bad system? I'd say only bad if you can't have enough of clicking on little plus button and see number become omg it was 5 now it's 6.

Having binary system would be even easier to implement in a game since instead of thinking "oh shit, now if player has elfearcutting +16, what would THAT mean compared to +12?" - skill would be either useful or not.

Can do something similar with talents, like to level up you'd need to do 1 of 2 different quests and depending on which one you do you get a unique kit (Gothics did this in a sense i.e. combined character progression with actual narrative and choices).

 

[Safav Hamon]

Damn, I really struck a nerve...

 

[Shadenuat]

Yes, because I despise people who consistently go hurrr that old 10-20-40 year old thing sucked "even I can do better now!".
I do not treat games as holy cows either, but let's be reasonable here - it's in many ways same as pointing to your grandpa and saying "grandpa you suck". And he might indeed be stupid and doesn't understand how to use tv remote but, chance is, he might have built a house you now have a luxury of living in.

And it seems to be a thing about games - like, we don't often say that that old black and white cartoon sucks and we get better now.

I understand when developers do it - they need you to believe that they have achieved much (even if they didn't and their new level is a linear corridor where you press e to pay for dlc) and they need you to buy their new shit; also why journalists do it - they get paid for sensation and get paid by developers and fly on their planes and get presentations and doritos and cute little pens.

But when players do it, I feel like

And if people would just go around shitting on thac0 they read about somewhere and never rolled for themselves it's one dumb thing, but also praising Sawyer for delivering them from evil ad&d with his half-assed system more boring than probably majority of pnp systems out there is multiple levels of extra dumb.

 

[Safav Hamon]

First off, I never claimed I could do better (although I have been designing a tabletop RPG which needs alpha testing).

I have played many P&P RPGs though, and 2nd edition D&D clearly hasn't aged well compared to modern P&P systems. Only nolstalgia would make people believe otherwise.

 

[Reapa]

First off, I never claimed I could do better (although I have been designing a tabletop RPG which needs alpha testing).

I have played many P&P RPGs though, and 2nd edition D&D clearly hasn't aged well compared to modern P&P systems. Only nolstalgia would make people believe otherwise.

you seem to be stuck on the word "modern". in case you think it makes you sound smart to keep throwing that word around like it means something, think again. it makes you sound retarded.

 

[santino27]

Not much info in this interview that's spread across two different sites, but it IS just a DLC, so it's not like there's all that much info to give.

MMORPG: What is the story in Beast of Winter about?

Brandon Adler: The high-level, mostly spoiler-free version is the player is contacted by a Rymrgand-worshipping doomsday cult stationed on a quickly growing iceberg in the southern Deadfire. Quickly growing is underselling it a bit as the iceberg has started to expand rapidly recently and is threatening to swallow the world in frost in short (relatively speaking) order.

The cult is convinced that the player is the Duskspeaker, a herald of the end times, and has invited them to Harbingers' Watch to celebrate the end of the world. The player will learn about the cult, their leader Vatnir, why the iceberg is spreading, and how to deal with the problem. Dealing with the iceberg sends the party into Rymrgand’s realm in the Beyond, where players will see some fantastic areas and learn about the inner workings of The Beyond and the White Void.

MMORPG: Where in the timeline of the overarching story does Beast of Winter fit?

Brandon Adler: The story that takes place in the Beast of Winter spans hundreds of years, but the player starts concurrent with the story in Deadfire.

MMORPG: What kind of content can players expect (i.e. how many new quests)? Will there be any new followers and / or crew to find?

Brandon Adler: Beast of Winter adds all of the things you would expect from an Obsidian game – new areas and dungeons to explore, dozens of new items and creatures, and fun, engaging quests. We have also added Vatnir, an Endings godlike the player can convince to follow them into the depths of the White Void.

Due to the nature of the DLC, some of the game’s previous companions will also have quite a bit to say. For example, Ydwin, as a pale elf animancer, has a lot to talk about as it relates to the people of the cult, Rymrgand, and the nature of souls.

MMORPG: Are there any completely new features being added in this DLC or in the other two coming later this year?

Brandon Adler: There is a new item type being added to Beast of Winter – the Trinket. Trinkets are items that allows characters to cast powerful, once per rest abilities that can turn the tide of a battle.

We also have many other new features planned for future DLCs and patches, but we will talk about those later.

MMORPG: What if a player has “finished” the game prior to the DLC? How do they access it?

Brandon Adler: The DLC is accessed by heading directly to the iceberg in the southern portion of the Deadfire. While players can access the DLC content at any time after they have their ship, it is specially crafted for parties of levels 14 – 15. For players not in that level range, level scaling will work with the DLC content.

If a player has finished the story from the base game, they can access the “point of no return” save and start their Beast of Winter adventure.

MMORPG: Do the events in the DLC have any impact on the end of the game?

Brandon Adler: The adventure for Beast of Winter is a mostly self-contained experience that is resolved separately from the main story in Deadfire. That said, there is some reactivity in Deadfire based on things that happen in the DLC, and the game boasts additional end slides for the Beast of Winter content.

MMORPG: Once the final DLC launches, is PoE 2 considered “finished”? Perhaps PoE 3?

Brandon Adler: Obsidian is committed to supporting Deadfire with patches, updates, and DLC for the foreseeable future. This isn’t just Deadfire, but all the Pillars of Eternity products. It’s our feeling that our games should be evolving with player feedback and, as with PoE 1, we won’t stop until we have the best experience possible for our fans.

As for Pillars of Eternity 3, we always have things in the works and lots of ideas for things we could do with a Pillars 3.

GameSpace: What about the free update for all players. What can everyone expect to find with the update that launches alongside Beast of Winter?

Brandon Adler: Along with Beast of Winter, we are also releasing The Deck of Many Things DLC for all players. It’s a free DLC which introduces a new ship to the world map, The Deck of Many Things. This ship, ancient Engwithan in origin, has some of the most unique items and crew in all of the Deadfire. And for those that want to try to take the ship on in naval combat, it’s the hardest ship fight in the game.

We are also adding Magran’s Fires, which are special challenges that allow players to go through the game with additional limitations. For example, a player doing Berath’s Challenge is unable to flee from combats and their party members are permanently killed if not revived within six seconds of being knocked out. One of the stranger challenges is Galawain’s Challenge, which gives all Beast type creatures additional random abilities in combat.

These challenges are all played on Path of the Damned and have a special version of level scaling enabled which only allows for upward scaling.

GameSpace: Since launch, have your metrics and data revealed any surprises in how players have consumed the content in PoE 2?

Brandon Adler: I’m not sure if there were any major surprises, but it was interesting to see information about the most popular character choices (class: Wizard) and the least popular (Race/Gender: Female Dwarf).

One of the more important uses of our metrics is seeing how players are playing the game – what things are they missing, where they are stopping, where they are dying, etc.. This data helps us smooth out these areas in post-launch patches and allows us to make better decisions in future games.

GameSpace: What have been the biggest challenges you and your team have had to overcome both in development and post-launch?

Brandon Adler: Anytime a DLC team has strict, short timelines it can be easy to fall into the trap of playing things exceptionally safe – retreading existing ideas, using only assets that were created for the base game, and not taking many chances. It can also be easy to shut down the team’s creativity inadvertently by being too forceful about not exploring new ideas.

It was important to me that we give developers the freedom to come up with cool, fun gameplay while also being smart about how much we delve into untested ideas. I feel like we struck a good balance and that players will be pleased.

 

[Mortmal]

Keep the scripters, and artist , hire mca as writer , fire sawyer and just put some random neckbeard AD&D 2E DM enthusiast as director instead and i am pretty sure you could get a real BG3.

I'm going to share some controversial opinions that I will probably regret later...

- Infinity Engine combat was ass. D&D was never designed to be implemented in real time. Deadfire is lightyears better for the recovery system alone.

- 2E AD&D was awful. That system aged poorly, and lacks basic modern RPG concepts such as talent progression and skills. Most of the class distinctions were based on poorly balanced arbitrary numbers, and battles were plagued with RNG.

- If MCA were the writer, this game would be full of long winded rambling and pretentious psuedo-philosophy. You guys think it's bad already, but he's the worst offender when it comes to that style of writing.

- Josh Sawyer is the reason for the incline in this game. The encounter design, multiclass/subclass options, itemization, and most of the other combat based improvements were all because he was project leader.

I name AD&D 2 cause this was what was used on the original baldur's gate , pathfinder would do too, even D&D 5E. You dont even need talent and skills, add several dialogue options, and prevent save scumming to not cheat the outcome, like a real pen and paper session.
That's still a better system than that one designed by sawyer, when each level brings nothing to be enthusiastic about .Plenty of feats , that just bloat the action bar with dubious to mininal effects.The encounters are all similar for my party once, again, i send ender the invicible tank ahead, he tank, party spank. Theres no need of crowd control, nor giving priority to any target , everything works.There's no need to be carefull with your build , its all wasted time.
Itemization ? my backpack is full of legendary item , all of them similar ,upgradable in the same way, nothing unique except the talking lesbian sword wich is a nice touch . Once again its bloated with details and stats but they means nothing.
They had everything to make something great and they screw up badly. Its just average, sales wont lie either , they will get even maybe? The dlc adding mid game content when everyone will have either threw away or finished the game will flop too.
I really hope kingmaker do good , else we wont see those kind of games before a long long long time.

 

[frajaq]

More Sawyer posts about Eothas and premise of the game