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Pillars is 10/10 GOTY would back again and anyone who disagrees is an edgelord or burnout

Is Pillars 10/10 GOTY would back again?

  • yes

    Votes: 33 27.5%
  • edgelord

    Votes: 25 20.8%
  • burnout

    Votes: 18 15.0%
  • kingcomrade

    Votes: 44 36.7%

  • Total voters
    120

Angthoron

Arcane
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
13,056
This is all very nice except.

Spoilers:

1. Hylea is infuriated, makes a trade with Berath to scourge Dyrwood
Requirements: Renege on your agreement with Hylea.

Hylea, who had expected the souls to be returned to the Hollowborn, was infuriated by your duplicity. The goddess of motherhood demanded new births in compensation, and made a bargain with Berath to trade death for new life.

The skies of Dyrwood darkened, blotted with swarms of birds and other winged creatures called together to claim what the Sky-mother believed to be hers by right. For months, the people of Dyrwood were forced to stay under shelter for fear of the vicious, unexplained attacks from the sky. The incidents left entire villages decimated and littered the streets of Defiance Bay with corpses covered in a thousand puncture wounds.

2. Berath evens the score with an epidemic of deaths
Requirements: Renege on your agreement with Berath.

Followers of Berath have a saying that life is a debt all must pay in death, and their god is known to always collect what is owed. In breaking your word to Berath, a debt was created - souls were owed to the Cycle - and the agents of the god of inevitability would not be refused.

An epidemic of unexplained deaths struck Dyrwood in the days that followed the Legacy. Most often the dead would be travelers on the road, known to be a favorite target of Bareth's Pallid Knight, who exacts impossible tolls from those who have journeyed for too long. The elderly, too, seemed to pass on in alarming numbers. But just as often the deaths appeared to strike randomly and for no reason at all.

Those who sensed the involvement of the Twinned God dubbed the calamity "Berath's Price," supposing it a payment for the end of Waidwen's Legacy.


3. Galawain goes on the hunt

Requirements: Renege on your agreement with Galawain.

It is said that Galawain is the enforcer of the gods, and is known to hunt down those who wrong them. To wrong Galwain, then, is truly to wake the beast, and the Father of Monsters took great umbrage at your broken promise to him. Along with Magran and Abydon, Galwain embarked upon a more direct approach to claiming his quarry.

In the months that followed, the frontier settlements of Dyrwood were inexplicably attacked by packs of beasts and monsters, suddenly organised and unafraid to approach kith on their own land. Many such villages were all but destroyed by the time troops could be dispatched from local garrisons.

Those that weren't destroyed by the beasts of Galawain often found themselves at the mercy of the fires of Magran. A dry spell throughout Dyrwood led to a rash of forest fires on a scale not seen since the War of Black Trees, and many settlements paid the price for their proximity to the wilderness.

In the cities, meanwhile, dabblers in animancy who had placed the souls into golems and other moving vessels soon found that their creations had risen up against them. Such constructs terrorised their surroundings, killing indiscriminately and often in great numbers before being subdued.

4. Rymrgand and Ondra take their due anyway

Requirements: Renege on your agreement with Rymrgand.

The loss of the souls you had promised to entropy would be no setback to Rymrgand, nor to Ondra, for the Beast of Winter trudges ever forward, and the will of the Lady of Lament is as unstoppable as the tide. In Dyrwood, the weather quickly chilled. Unseasonable frosts destroyed the year's harvests before giving way to the coldest winter in memory. Many who survived the famine would soon freeze to deah in their own homes.

The oceans proved no safer. A barrage of squalls pounded the harbors along the Dyrwoodan coast for months, sending many ships to be forever lost in the depths of Ondra's domain, either mourned or forgotten- both to the Lady's liking.

Furthermore,

At your direction, the souls diverted by Thaos were guided back to the vessels originally meant for them. For the first time, parents of Hollowborn children woke to the cries of their infants, and looked into their eyes to see them staring back. People fell to their knees where they stood, thanking Hylea or Magran, or even Eothas for their forgiveness of whatever guilt they felt they bore.

But for all the relief that had come to some parents, others only found new grief, for many thousands of Hollowborn had died during Waidwen's Legacy, many by their parents' own hands. For those children there would be no homecoming.

Yet the last Hollow birth was in the past now, and those parents willing to risk trying for a new child were frequently rewarded, often with twins. Many felt they saw Hylea's hand in it, and the year would be remembered as the Year of Hylea's Splendor.

Oh hey, it's like gods can do stuff, have their own portfolios and are known for them.
 

Night Goat

The Immovable Autism
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As I said: in cRPG's, people follow gods because of rewards/punishments. IRL people follow religions for far more complex reasons.
In real life, people follow religions because they think doing so will allow them to go to heaven and avoid hell.
 

Shevek

Arcane
Joined
Sep 20, 2003
Messages
1,570
This game gets alot closer to the mark on why people follow religion. Its group think to convince ourselves that there is more than this existence. That we get to keep going once our nuerons stop firing. Thaos thinks people would go apeshit once people's mythology is debunked and they realize that their "souls" are things which are quantifiable (like dna, etc).
 

KK1001

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 30, 2015
Messages
621
In real life, most people follow religions because they're raised to follow them.

Do you guys honestly think that 99% of religious followers have hammered out their own theology and philosophical worldview? People don't have time for that shit. Religion just offers a ready-made philosophical toolbox for people when they do face challenging times (unexpected death in the family, sickness, lack of justice in the world).
 

Prime Junta

Guest
In real life, most people follow religions because it's a crucial part of their identity. It defines who they are, what their place in their community is, what's expected of them. Religion provides community, comfort, and structure. It gives ways of thinking about big burning questions of life and death, right and wrong, justice and injustice, the search for meaning and purpose; for some they're ready-made answers, for others, they're a way of grappling with them.

I can't think of any cRPG that comes close to describing religious people with as much nuance and sympathy as Edér and Durance, different as they are in their religiosity. Their respective crises of faith and duty were entirely human and believable. Relatable, even, if you are or have been religious yourself, or are close to someone who has had to deal with that kind of shit.

Which other cRPG does the evil bloodthirsty secret cult trope in a way that you actually understand, even sympathise with why someone would willingly be flayed, castrated, and blinded alive in the name of his god? Which other cRPG deals with human sacrifice in a way that you understand why people do it, and why the offerings would volunteer for it? "Standard fantasy fare" indeed.
 

Lady_Error

█▓▒░ ░▒▓█
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Joined
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Messages
1,879,250
As I said: in cRPG's, people follow gods because of rewards/punishments. IRL people follow religions for far more complex reasons.
In real life, people follow religions because they think doing so will allow them to go to heaven and avoid hell.

Christianity is not all religions, you know. I guess today hardly any Christians actually believe in hell, though maybe in some sort of heaven. The US bible belt may be an exception in this.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
21,331
Stompa Thank you for making my point for me.

As I said: in cRPG's, people follow gods because of rewards/punishments. IRL people follow religions for far more complex reasons. P:E's religions and gods are far more believable because there aren't simplistic rewards and punishments. Gods don't protect their holy sites here either, nor involve themselves (much) in the affairs of mortals, yet people still keep following them. Weird, isn't it?
You did say it, but it does not make it true lol.
I read a fair bit of D&D books and people don't follow gods for spells, they follow them for what they represent in their lives. Only difference is that priests of said gods can do miracles often while in RL these "miracles" are rare and often unproven.
 

Jools

Eater of Apples
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Stompa Thank you for making my point for me.

As I said: in cRPG's, people follow gods because of rewards/punishments. IRL people follow religions for far more complex reasons.

Do they, now? How come all religions basically come (or have come) with a reward/punishment system, then?

You say in a later post that religion is a crucial part of one's identity, but that only explains half of it and only really applies to a few "fervent" ones. Most religious people, even the most zealous ones, inherently (and often unknowingly) follow their religion of choice because, indeed, of the "punishment/reward" thing (aka "carrot/stick").
 

Prime Junta

Guest
Jools Yes, they do. What you're saying is broadly true for fundamentalist Christianity and fundamentalist Islam plus a few other fringe belief systems, but not much else. What's more, fundamentalism is in no way related to the depth or strength of an individual's convictions.

Why do religions have reward/punishment systems? I'm not sure, but I believe it reflects our fundamental sense of fairness. We really want to believe there's some cosmic balancing of the scales out there since it's so fucking obvious there's none down here. I've met a few people who do adhere to their religion's teachings out of fear of Hell or hope of Heaven, but they're by far outnumbered by the people who do so for other reasons.
 

Jools

Eater of Apples
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Jools Yes, they do. What you're saying is broadly true for fundamentalist Christianity and fundamentalist Islam plus a few other fringe belief systems, but not much else. What's more, fundamentalism is in no way related to the depth or strength of an individual's convictions.

I'm not talking extremists/fundamentalists. Even your average "casual" Christian or Buddhist sticks to their chosen set of beliefs because of the promise/hope for some kind of "better", in this life or the next (again, sometimes this drives them subconsciously).

Nobody ever followed a religion that doesn't have a "reward program", and that's why there basically are no such religions at all: they would make no sense and would really have a hard time attracting any followers.

I'm not really sure what you might have in mind, advocating otherwise.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
Jools Reward/punishment does play a role in motivating people to act in ways in accordance with their religion (although most people pass that stage of ethical maturity some time around when they hit adulthood), but it's not very important in getting them to adhere in the first place (except perhaps Christianity). Most religions don't even have cosmic punishments in store for non-adherents simply for being non-adherents (again, Christianity being the notable exception), rather, they're reserved for people who do Bad Things, whatever that is defined to mean.

This is particularly true for the religions that most closely resemble the ones in Eora -- Hinduism, Buddhism, and the other karmic/polytheistic faiths. There's a Hindu hell for meat-eaters, where they get torn to pieces by animals, but it doesn't discriminate between Hindu and non-Hindu meat-eaters. Conversely, there's a Hindu heaven for enlightened sages, but it doesn't distinguish between enlightened Buddhist, Christian, or Hindu sages. It's your actions and intentions that count.
 
Unwanted

Hatred

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I really cant work out what you are trying to say with this :

Reward/punishment does play a role in motivating people to act in ways in accordance with their religion (although most people pass that stage of ethical maturity some time around when they hit adulthood), but it's not very important in getting them to adhere in the first place (except perhaps Christianity).

Not that much of your talk about religion makes much sense to me but this just makes none.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
21,331
He is claiming that most people once they hit adulthood lose all real faith and just follow religion because of their culture.
I agree with that.

I don't see what that has to do with PoE having better religion that D&D games.
 
Unwanted

Hatred

Unwanted
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Ah. Well thanks for the clarification. Its a retarded sentiment though. People who grow up stop being religious. Supporting a religion you don't even believe in is almost as stupid as thinkinking PoE is 10/10 GOTY.

Edit :having re-read what you and junta wrote idk that I can be sure that is what he meant. Hopefully he will chime in at some point even if I did shower him with Doritos and Mountain Dew to show my disgust earlier.
 
Last edited:

Kz3r0

Arcane
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
27,026
Yeah, youngsters are known to be all fundies, bunch of Dawkinstards.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
He is claiming that most people once they hit adulthood lose all real faith and just follow religion because of their culture.
I agree with that.

No, I'm not.

Hatred I re-read that and honestly don't see what's so hard to understand about it. Someone claimed that people only follow a religion because of reward/punishment. I replied that that's not so: while reward/punishment may play a role in getting people to act according to their religion (although social pressure is FAR! more important), it has very little to do with getting someone to adhere in the first place.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
21,331
He is claiming that most people once they hit adulthood lose all real faith and just follow religion because of their culture.
I agree with that.

No, I'm not.
That probably explains why nobody understands you except for your self and why we laugh at your 10/10 review.
Maybe try to explain things to us in a normal non autistic way?

Because what you are talking about seems to only make sense to one person.
 

Jools

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Jools Reward/punishment does play a role in motivating people to act in ways in accordance with their religion (although most people pass that stage of ethical maturity some time around when they hit adulthood), but it's not very important in getting them to adhere in the first place (except perhaps Christianity). Most religions don't even have cosmic punishments in store for non-adherents simply for being non-adherents (again, Christianity being the notable exception), rather, they're reserved for people who do Bad Things, whatever that is defined to mean.

I see you're not really up to date with the latest Christian trends. It has been officially stated by the Church that even non-Christians can go to Christian Heaven, as long as they've led righteous lives.

IMHO, there are two and a half kinds of adherents:

1."born into": they adhere "just because", out of habit you might say, and because they are born and bred in an environment that seeped the beliefs they end up adhering to.
2."St. Paul": they reach a point in life where they deliberately, or because of some "event", adhere to a religion ex-novo, either coming from a weak belief in another one, or from some sort of "atheism".
3.Fundies (prestige class): well, these are mostly deranged people who embrace a religion to the core and beyond that, with he results we all know.

What really brings all three kinds together is that they all still do it in the hope for some reward. Some hope for a better afterlife ("futures option" reward), some enjoy having a "purpose" and feel rewarded in their daily existence ("stock option" reward), some just like to blow up things or tie trashy ladies to a pole and burn them alive ("immediate, sadistic" reward").

The point being, nobody just devolves part of their mental and practical efforts and part of their soul to adhering to some set of beliefs "just because"...
 

Prime Junta

Guest
He is claiming that most people once they hit adulthood lose all real faith and just follow religion because of their culture.
I agree with that.

No, I'm not.
That probably explains why nobody understands you except for your self and why we laugh at your 10/10 review.
Maybe try to explain things to us in a normal non autistic way?

Because what you are talking about seems to only make sense to one person.

I'm trying my best. If I'm failing to get through, it's certainly possible the failure is mine. I think it's more likely that you lot are just a bit dim though.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
I see you're not really up to date with the latest Christian trends. It has been officially stated by the Church that even non-Christians can go to Christian Heaven, as long as they've led righteous lives.

Which church?

IMHO, there are two and a half kinds of adherents:

1."born into": they adhere "just because", out of habit you might say, and because they are born and bred in an environment that seeped the beliefs they end up adhering to.
2."St. Paul": they reach a point in life where they deliberately, or because of some "event", adhere to a religion ex-novo, either coming from a weak belief in another one, or from some sort of "atheism".
3.Fundies (prestige class): well, these are mostly deranged people who embrace a religion to the core and beyond that, with he results we all know.

I kind of agree with this. Except in re fundies, I don't think it's as much a matter of "embracing it to the core" than "being stupidly literal-minded about everything." More of a mindset really, and by no means limited to religions. Ever talk to a hardcore Mises-worshipping Libertarian? (Or one of Kz3r0's Dawkins-heads for that matter.)

What really brings all three kinds together is that they all still do it in the hope for some reward. Some hope for a better afterlife ("futures option" reward), some enjoy having a "purpose" and feel rewarded in their daily existence ("stock option" reward), some just like to blow up things or tie trashy ladies to a pole and burn them alive ("immediate, sadistic" reward").

This is true. When discussing "rewards" I somehow assumed we were talking heaven/hell. I have been trying to point out those other reasons here after all -- a sense of community, purpose, meaning, etc.

The point being, nobody just devolves part of their mental and practical efforts and part of their soul to adhering to some set of beliefs "just because"...

Also entirely true. Although I think surprisingly many will claim to do just that; from your group 1.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
21,331
He is claiming that most people once they hit adulthood lose all real faith and just follow religion because of their culture.
I agree with that.

No, I'm not.
That probably explains why nobody understands you except for your self and why we laugh at your 10/10 review.
Maybe try to explain things to us in a normal non autistic way?

Because what you are talking about seems to only make sense to one person.

I'm trying my best. If I'm failing to get through, it's certainly possible the failure is mine. I think it's more likely that you lot are just a bit dim though.
I am still waiting for you to show us how it all fits into PoE has Gods more similar to RL than D&D. And how that is somehow better.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
ArchAngel as I said, I'm doing my best. I went over with what I've said here and can't think of any way to make it clearer (see #58 in particular). If that's not clear enough for you, then I think we're SOL.
 

Immortal

Arcane
In My Safe Space
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This thread has gone full retard.

630.png
 

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