KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[gurugeorge]

Thinking further about it, the "headshot problem" does seem to be unique to videogames. It's not like you get a lot of headshots IRL, so presumably if the system is set up to be simulationist it's going to mimic that rarity.
How about this: the targeting "circles" wax or wane depending on whether you're aiming for center mass or aiming for an appendage or head? And they wax less the more accuracy you have, and wax least for snipers?

Well, the system theoretically has all the tools to represent it well. I think the bare minimum for aiming for center mass being a viable default is to represent weapon accuracy (and inherent inaccuracy) as some form of minutes of angle
and give the bullet a chance something else on a miss. It's already miles ahead in terms of realism compared to the straight up to-hit penalty for various body parts.
However, the majority of the problem is about the difficulty of hitting a moving target, and turn based already does a poor job at representing this (remember when people whined about 65% point-blank hit chance in EXCUM?).
I'd argue that PP already does it better than a whole bunch of other games, because its realistic bullet trajectory means the thing you want to aim for might just be momentarily obstructed due to the stage of the animation and firing angle.

A possible interesting bit of trivia, it seems vidya has been training people to aim for headshots and expect to get them. Not sure if it's been a problem for law enforcement and military training,
but the article seems to suggest that it may be the case:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ab.21794
If so, the headshot fetish seems to be largely a videogame thing. There is one technique I know of called the Mozambique Drill, which recognizes that headshots are the definite way to make sure target stays down,
but even then making that shot depends on first landing two torso shots to bring the target to a stop.

I was thinking of the waxing/waning circle idea as representing shooter's skill within the system (as opposed to just the ballistics). IOW, a sniper being more accurate has a better chance of getting a headshot than a trooper, so when he aims for the head (i.e. anywhere other than center mass, which gives the ballistics the best chance), his targeting circle will wax less.

Think of it this way, as you move the targeting circle away from center mass, it grows bigger, or as you move it towards center mass it grows smaller. The degree of waxing/waning represents the shooter's notional accuracy or skill level - so a sniper's targeting circle will grow only slightly as he moves away from center mass, whereas a grunt's will wax bigger.

 

[gurugeorge]

Ha, you know how the "Golden Rule" of XCOM is "never reveal fog of war after your first move"?

I've figured out the "Golden Rule" of PP - "If your targeting circle is bigger than the mob, find a better position."

 

[Alienman]

Mine is "just overwatch"

 

[ArchAngel]

Mine is "just overwatch"

Mine is blow them up with explosives.

 

[Galdred]

Thinking further about it, the "headshot problem" does seem to be unique to videogames. It's not like you get a lot of headshots IRL, so presumably if the system is set up to be simulationist it's going to mimic that rarity.

How about this: the targeting "circles" wax or wane depending on whether you're aiming for center mass or aiming for an appendage or head? And they wax less the more accuracy you have, and wax least for snipers?

The irony is that shooting IRL has an element of RNG:
Your target may move a little in an unsuspected direction while the bullet travels, and in combat situation, your weapon settings could become a bit off with wear (I once shot a misaligned rifle at a shooting range, and it was really painful...). These elements make shooting at the center of mass much preferable, especially since there is very little chance you won't take the target out of the fight.
The targeting reticle is a relatively elegant way to represent firing at an unmoving target, but it does't really work for moving targets IMO.

The other reason why we have so few headshots IRL is that you usually cannot really take that long to fire your gun (because you want to duck back in cover) in combat, and a torso shot will usually disable the target too.
Infantry combat is seldom troops very far apart taking potshot at each other. It will usually be a platoon in cover suppressing the other, which will call for an artillery strike or something.
I don't think anyone sane will take the time to try to align a machine gunner for a headshot if his position is known.

According to random answer on Quora:

It's difficult to come up with definitive answers, but statistical studies typically come up with 20,000–100,000 rounds expended per casualty caused by a unit

I think these are definitely not people really aiming for headshots(or aiming at all).

 

[ERYFKRAD]

According to random answer on Quora:
I think these are definitely not people really aiming for headshots(or aiming at all

Can they redo the statistics after removing the Ork dakka counters?

 

[Jaedar]

Mine is "just overwatch"

Overwatch is nice, but against stuff like shieldmen it's usually pointless cause you'll just hit the shield for zero damage, and then their buddies will move after you've expended yourself.

I don't think PP has any trivial golden rule anywhere near "don't trigger multiple pods" in xcom. It's a more well rounded game than that. Maybe "Aim for the weak parts of their limbs"? For the crawlers you need to take out their regen first though or it's pointless. Sniping away arms from the crabmen never gets old though.

 

[Parabalus]

I don't think PP has any trivial golden rule

If there's any it's

1. Activate Rapid Clearance
2. Proceed to oneshot whole map 1 by 1 in melee

 

[Galdred]

According to random answer on Quora:
I think these are definitely not people really aiming for headshots(or aiming at all

Can they redo the statistics after removing the Ork dakka counters?

It reminds me of this ending screen:

Spoiler

Mine is "just overwatch"

Overwatch is nice, but against stuff like shieldmen it's usually pointless cause you'll just hit the shield for zero damage, and then their buddies will move after you've expended yourself.

I don't think PP has any trivial golden rule anywhere near "don't trigger multiple pods" in xcom. It's a more well rounded game than that. Maybe "Aim for the weak parts of their limbs"? For the crawlers you need to take out their regen first though or it's pointless. Sniping away arms from the crabmen never gets old though.

Doesn't overwatch go against the whole select body part to shoot at?

 

[ArchAngel]

I think you guys will enjoy DLC4, it is certainly better than DLC3 and 2.

 

[Visperas]

I think you guys will enjoy DLC4, it is certainly better than DLC3 and 2.

Will DLC4 be easily integrated into an already in progress campaign?

 

[ArchAngel]

I think you guys will enjoy DLC4, it is certainly better than DLC3 and 2.

Will DLC4 be easily integrated into an already in progress campaign?

No. All DLC can only be turned on at start of a new campaign run

 

[Melmoth]

let me know when to start my first playthrough, ArchAdvertisingPlant

 

[ArchAngel]

let me know when to start my first playthrough, ArchAdvertisingPlant

I took one for the team and this is how you treat me

 

[lightbane]

How long until the ultimate ultimate edition?

 

[Iluvcheezcake]

Id say wait half a year for Gollop Edition

 

[ArchAngel]

How long until the ultimate ultimate edition?

That will probably come with DLC5. Edition that will have DLC4 and all older is coming in about 1 month together with console release.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

How long until the ultimate ultimate edition?

That will probably come with DLC5. Edition that will have DLC4 and all older is coming in about 1 month together with console release.

You mean balance patch of that.

 

[Endemic]

Guess I'll get this next year on the inevitable 50% discount.

 

[ArchAngel]

https://www.pcgamesn.com/phoenix-point/dlc-4-acheron-first-look

Spoiler

Phoenix Point’s Corrupted Horizons DLC adds the bioengineered Acheron creature

Phoenix Point’s next DLC, Corrupted Horizons, is due out in October, and it’s adding some game-changing new units to the XCOM-style strategy game. We’ve gotten a first look at one of them, the Acheron, and it’s another mean-looking Pandoran threat that’s going to force you to reconsider your tactics on the battlefield.

Acherons are large, four-legged creatures that have been developed by one of Phoenix Point’s human factions – although exactly which one is responsible for the monstrosity is unclear. Whatever its provenance, the Acheron is a heavy-duty support unit that can not only call in Pandoran reinforcements, it can also reanimate dead Pandoran units you’ve already dealt with.

The Acheron’s main role, however, ties into a new game mechanic Corrupted Horizons will be introducing to Phoenix Point. The creatures can spread corruption, a miasma that saps soldiers of their will to continue the fight. You’ll have to capture and research an Acheron as part of the fourth DLC’s story arc in order to uncover the means to fight back against corruption – but even when you do, it’ll still present a threat during battle.


Snapshot Games tells us that the Acheron’s design was inspired by the alien harvesters featured in H.G. Wells’ War of the Worlds.



“While the big factions (Phoenix, New Jericho, Synedrion, and the Disciples of Anu) aim to restore the world and save humanity in their own way, there are a lot of smaller factions with other motives,” the developers tell us. “The Pure and the creators of the Acheron are examples of such factions, and the Acheron is an example of what happens when things go wrong.”

Have a peek at how things have gone wrong in the trailer:

The Acheron will be a menace when you end up facing it in tactical battles – it can leap across the map, spread corruption, and release pepper clouds that reduce the accuracy of your weapons. It can also heal allies and, as mentioned before, resurrect corpses and call for backup.

You’ll be able to set your sights on the Acheron when the Corrupted Horizons DLC launches October 1. There’s more coming with the DLC, too – including a new soldier type that Snapshot Games hasn’t yet revealed.

 

[razvedchiki]

lol 1 new enemy with prexisting mechanics counts as "dlc"

 

[Parabalus]

The fine print says there's also a new class.

 

[ArchAngel]

lol 1 new enemy with prexisting mechanics counts as "dlc"

New enemy has almost zero preexisting mechanics. It has a bunch of new ones. They probably went a bit overboard and gave him too many new mechanics all put into one enemy.

 

[razvedchiki]

banshee screech = panic.

 

[ArchAngel]

banshee screech = panic.

They don't have banshee screech.