Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Haplo]

is there a way for a brown fur transmuter to have more than 1 ability to make a + 4 str spell to 6?

Do not dump Charisma, perhaps?
Anyway, the Arcane Exploit Pool grows with level (1/2 level + Cha mod, perhaps?).
Still nice to have some positive Cha, as that mod limits how many spell slots you can consume to get even more Exploit Pool.

i mean the 3 lvl ability, where you can enhance one trasmutation spell with your arcane ability but it says you can only do it once.

Then it says wrong. You can do it as often, as many points you have in your arcane reservoir (plus how many you can gain from consume spells). 20+ times per day at higher levels.

 

[Desiderius]

We want more games like HoMM, not less. They got the hard part done, they just didn't finish it.

The idea to imitate HoMM 3, while good, is not what I would call "the hard part". Battles in WotR are dramatically unbalanced and unfun, and Owlcat shouldn't be given the impression that they can make the Crusade System entertaining with just a few minor changes.

Balancing isn't trivial but the UI and set-up is perfectly solid. I was able to amass three viable armies focused on the strengths of the three general types. All Owlcat needs to do now is create foes that require the unique strengths of each army to defeat them in large enough number that the map can't be trivially covered with two let alone one.

 

[IllusiveBrian]

I think a fundamental issue with the Crusade mode is always going to be that they don't want it to be so hard that people are regularly losing the whole run because they can't stop a demon army from taking Drezen. It probably needs a hard setting that can have more of the difficulty changes being suggested.

 

[Desiderius]

There was a Hard setting for P:K Kingdom Management but as far as I'm aware none of the hardcore Unfair crew have even tried it.

Somehow HoMM itself was able to present compelling challenges without turning people off from the game with undue difficulty. Far from it.

 

[Sarathiour]

Kingdom management was more a game of planification and correctly allocating you ressource, hard setting would just up the threshold for dice roll and would be completely pointless.

 

[Average Manatee]

Again, problem with the aspect of losing the strategic game is that it's so separate from the rest of the game. If your kingdom was unstable, teetering on the edge of destruction with bandits and raging animals everywhere you'd expect to be able to at least contribute by going somewhere and killing them. But you can't. Your party is totally capable of doing that with all the scripted main story problems your kingdom has but the kingdom mode problems can only be solved by kingdom mode actions.

It'd also be a lot more interesting if you had competing problems to handle within a time limit rather than just the main quest and side quests. Imagine if every problem that advisors handle was also solvable by the King if you went there personally. Granted that'd be a huge amount of effort to make the content rather than just text descriptions of stuff happening.

 

[Desiderius]

Kingdom management was more a game of planification and correctly allocating you ressource, hard setting would just up the threshold for dice roll and would be completely pointless.

So is the rest of the game.

As with the rest, the game is to obviate the dice.

 

[Sarathiour]

Except that for the rest of the game, you have a way to interact with those roll through a lot of means.
For kingdom management, it's only level of advisor + whatever building give you bonus, and use token when the probability is too shitty. And you don't really control the level of advisor, because time is the thing really restricting you, not BP, and we're talking about a 5/10% chances differences anyway.

I actually kinda enjoyed KM minigame, but let's not pretend it's complex or thought-challenging in any way or form.

 

[Average Manatee]

Yeah, Hard is just +2 to all DCs I think. That's flatly countered by being Lawful and building the Bulletin Board. Meaning that the whole difficulty level is effectively beaten by a 20 BP investment per town, at the cost of also forcing you to pick specific alignments. If you play Lawful Evil and also build the stocks then you have +3 to your rolls. Picking a specific alignment isn't exactly something that requires skill, just reading a guide.

The only thing slightly skill-based is time management, but the fact that it takes 14 days for a single action means that the returns are pretty low. The difference between being super duper excellent at stretching out days and economizing rests and being average and wasteful is only going to save you maybe a week of travel and rest time per chapter, which means 1 extra kingdom rankup every other chapter. Even not having teleporters only costs like 1 extra day per travel across the map midgame. You have to do a whole lot of those to lose any significant amount of rank ups.

 

[Desiderius]

Yeah, Hard is just +2 to all DCs I think. That's flatly countered by being Lawful and building the Bulletin Board. Meaning that the whole difficulty level is effectively beaten by a 20 BP investment per town, at the cost of also forcing you to pick specific alignments. If you play Lawful Evil and also build the stocks then you have +3 to your rolls. Picking a specific alignment isn't exactly something that requires skill, just reading a guide.

The only thing slightly skill-based is time management, but the fact that it takes 14 days for a single action means that the returns are pretty low. The difference between being super duper excellent at stretching out days and economizing rests and being average and wasteful is only going to save you maybe a week of travel and rest time per chapter, which means 1 extra kingdom rankup every other chapter. Even not having teleporters only costs like 1 extra day per travel across the map midgame. You have to do a whole lot of those to lose any significant amount of rank ups.

Lol you’re wrong.

So much I suck therefore game sux cope.

 

[Average Manatee]

Lol you’re wrong.

So much I suck therefore game sux cope.

I didn't even criticize the game there. Also nice argument.

 

[Desiderius]

(1) Do you take the loan?

(2) How fast are you unlocking your advisors?

(3) Do you know how to get the time down to a week? How fast are you unlocking that?

(4) How fast are you getting (and keeping) Serene?

It all snowballs (just like the rest of the game - and they do feed each other). My guess is that Hard is a little more like poker where you’re managing percentages but I wouldn’t be surprised if a better player than me could reduce the randomness to a minimum if not entirely eliminate it.

 

[Desiderius]

Lol you’re wrong.

So much I suck therefore game sux cope.

I didn't even criticize the game there. Also nice argument.

Of course you are. You’re claiming (falsely) that there’s no/minimal skill involved because you haven’t developed enough skill yet to know.

 

[Sarathiour]

Are we really going to theorycraft kingdom managment.

I don't have enough autisme in me to do so.

 

[Average Manatee]

(1) Do you take the loan?

The loan doesn't matter, because BP is not what limits you, what limits you is your character's personal time.

(2) How fast are you unlocking your advisors?

Again, limited by time. Unlocking new advisors also doesn't really specifically "help" complete events, it just means you can do more at once. Which isn't important until you've unlocked a lot more regions and are getting a lot more events. Otherwise you're actually better off ranking up a select few advisors and using them for hard events. Aside from that only unlocking teleporters actually gets you ahead in the kingdom game by slightly lowering the amount of time you spend traveling so you can spend more time endlessly ranking up advisors.

(3) Do you know how to get the time down to a week? How fast are you unlocking that?

It's gated by the amount of time you've spent ranked up advisors, so it's literally impossible to metagame. You have to spend 560 days ranking up advisors to unlock it. If it was something like a 3000 BP project you could do in Chapter 2 it'd be skill based, but it's not.

(4) How fast are you getting (and keeping) Serene?

Stability is... pretty fucking easy to get and maintain, unless you get really bad event rolls that knock you down.

Love how Desiderius seems to actually think that he has some 200 IQ knowledge to impart about such a simplistic system when he's actually got 60 IQ info.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

They hated Desiderius because he spoke the truth.

 

[Fedora Master]

Lmao imagine trying to defend these pointless shit minigames

Owltards really are scum

 

[RunningWolf]

Did you guys ever test Arcane Bloodline Arcana? Its that Arcane bloodline feature that gives +1 DC when you metamagic spells. I just did some quick testing and i cant get it to apply +1DC bonus.

Edit: It works. I tried other archetypes and their DC is 1 less. Maybe my game was bugged, idk.

 

[Desiderius]

Why is this even in the Wrath thread?

If Average Manatee would spend half as much time trying to figure out the game as he does beclowning himself here he might understand what he’s overlooked.

BP absolutely is the bottleneck early since you can use it to spam particular buildings that let you get very early rank-ups, improving your chances on events, unlocking regions and artisan tiers, and Arcane/Warden (and then Espionage) advisors so you can always use the advisor with the bonus on each particular event (and avoid the malus).

It’s the marginal advantages (including yeah saving on travel time with very early teleporters/aviaries and combining trips) that snowball into major ones.

 

[Average Manatee]

BP absolutely is the bottleneck early since you can use it to spam particular buildings that let you get very early rank-ups, improving your chances on events, unlocking regions and artisan tiers, and Arcane/Warden (and then Espionage) advisors so you can always use the advisor with the bonus on each particular event (and avoid the malus).

It’s the marginal advantages (including yeah saving on travel time with very early teleporters/aviaries and combining trips) that snowball into major ones.

The bottleneck is your character's time. Early game its very easy to have way more BP to spam buildings than you have time to level your advisors. Selling items for gold gives you thousands of BP.

If Average Manatee would spend half as much time trying to figure out the game as he does beclowning himself here he might understand what he’s overlooked.

Curious how you miss the implications of such incredibly basic things in your previous post yet still consider yourself the expert here.

 

[RunningWolf]

I just though of another way to deal with Mind-immunes as a Demon Illusion DC Sorc.
The upside is that you're useful even when not casting. The downside that you'll have to go Crossblooded or use Second Bloodline on Arcane and go with Seeker(which gives +3 feats so its likely better). Seeker gives you the full bloodline, not castrated one, if taken with a Second Bloodline, that's why it has to be Arcane.

Go with 14 Str 21 Cha take Arcane/Abyssal. You will max Cha and still end up with 20 strength unbuffed.
Tenser, reach weapon, demonic aspects(if you want even more damage then elemental barrage, but i think its an overkill) will allow you to one round slap pretty much anything mind-immune in AOE around you. We're still primarily Phantasmal and Weird spam. Also free mythic feat from not taking second Expanded Arsenal.


Probably not the best way to go about it, but seems like a fun muscle sorc. Instagib things with both spells and weapons. Also playing abyssal sorc demon is about as flavorful as you can get.

 

[Desiderius]

Are we really going to theorycraft kingdom managment.

I don't have enough autisme in me to do so.

One of us is. I’m talking specific things you can do. And there are real benefits: kingdom bonuses on time for Womb and Hilltop/Depths for instance. Not missing out on items you want then crying about the game.

He’s not unlocking his regions nearly fast enough far as I can tell.

 

[zapotec]

Both kingdom managament and the crusade system are the proof that Owlcat can only bring (translate?) other game systems to their own game.
They don't have the experience to make their own system interesting, pratically they are a big waste of time for us and for them.

 

[Desiderius]

They’re… not a waste of time. They have massive impact on the game if managed well. At minimum they’re where you get you best items.

They’re just tragically unfinished in both cases.

 

[Desiderius]

Early game its very easy to have way more BP to spam buildings than you have time to level your advisors. Selling items for gold gives you thousands of BP.

Is early game for you fucking Pitax?