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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
"But you said Nenio was pwning with xbow!"

Yeah, difficulty curve is inverted but for average player learning game SS will lag martial by 10 AB or so by lvl 14 and will need to pay attention to spells and abilities that can make that up. They are there but you've got to actually look.
 
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Magus has dimension strike, after which hitting should never be an issue. Before that their ab bonus ability keeps them on par for boss fights
 

Rhobar121

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If you have a problem with playing on Unfair, you can always try bruteforce in the form of Sosiel with 3 imposible domains (madness, coumunity, nobility), this alone should give you +20AB. It's not a very sophisticated tactic, but it's effective.
I don't care what Desiderius think about it, this tactic is simple, effective, braindead in virtually every fight on Unfair.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
If you have a problem with playing on Unfair, you can always try bruteforce in the form of Sosiel with 3 imposible domains (madness, coumunity, nobility), this alone should give you +20AB. It's not a very sophisticated tactic, but it's effective.
I don't care what Desiderius think about it, this tactic is simple, effective, braindead in virtually every fight on Unfair.

Only thing I think is you don’t need one-weird-tricks and playing that way is an inferior experience to playing as designed/as is customary for the genre, nor are the tricks costless.

Telling people that is the only/best* way to play is depriving them of that experience. Journos promote that because they grew up on shitty games where that was the point. The games PF/BG are a throwback to were better designed.

* - InEffective mocks people who don’t play that way, I mock people who listen to him. People who try to use the one weird tricks without mastering the basics are often disappointed anyway and whine for nerfs
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Magus has dimension strike, after which hitting should never be an issue. Before that their ab bonus ability keeps them on par for boss fights

Two AP for one round as a Swift that is clunky to time in RTwP. He’s not even using Divine Favor. Magus is a big skill tester.

Weapon Enchant helps, but have to spend an Arcana for Enduring and the scaling merely keeps you up with full BAB and tops out at +5, it doesn’t get you ahead like martial abilities.

Still have Spell Combat and Fighting Defensively malus to overcome for common DEX-based SS and Piranha really puts it in a hole.
 

Rhobar121

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If you have a problem with playing on Unfair, you can always try bruteforce in the form of Sosiel with 3 imposible domains (madness, coumunity, nobility), this alone should give you +20AB. It's not a very sophisticated tactic, but it's effective.
I don't care what Desiderius think about it, this tactic is simple, effective, braindead in virtually every fight on Unfair.

Only thing I think is you don’t need one-weird-tricks and playing that way is an inferior experience to playing as designed/as is customary for the genre, nor are the tricks costless.

Telling people that is the only/best* way to play is depriving them of that experience. Journos promote that because they grew up on shitty games where that was the point. The games PF/BG are a throwback to were better designed.

* - InEffective mocks people who don’t play that way, I mock people who listen to him. People who try to use the one weird tricks without mastering the basics are often disappointed anyway and whine for nerfs
Did I write that this is the best way? This is simply the easiest way you can arrange to get AB without much hassle.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Still have Spell Combat and Fighting Defensively malus to overcome for common DEX-based SS and Piranha really puts it in a hole.
I don't, because I ignore all of those and would have my magus wielding a fauchard because big AoE crits go burr.

As I said before that isn’t DEX-based which is what he wants to play and doesn’t use one of the main features of the class (Spell Combat). I think perfect crit was nerfed too? Whatever it’s a thing you can do but there are plenty of ways to whack shit with long sticks that work just as well.

And there are no adjacent bosses, which was OP’s main concern.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
If you have a problem with playing on Unfair, you can always try bruteforce in the form of Sosiel with 3 imposible domains (madness, coumunity, nobility), this alone should give you +20AB. It's not a very sophisticated tactic, but it's effective.
I don't care what Desiderius think about it, this tactic is simple, effective, braindead in virtually every fight on Unfair.

Only thing I think is you don’t need one-weird-tricks and playing that way is an inferior experience to playing as designed/as is customary for the genre, nor are the tricks costless.

Telling people that is the only/best* way to play is depriving them of that experience. Journos promote that because they grew up on shitty games where that was the point. The games PF/BG are a throwback to were better designed.

* - InEffective mocks people who don’t play that way, I mock people who listen to him. People who try to use the one weird tricks without mastering the basics are often disappointed anyway and whine for nerfs
Did I write that this is the best way? This is simply the easiest way you can arrange to get AB without much hassle.

Sort of?

Hearth is full action which can be a little clunky to set up in time for Darrazand, and Madness requires getting Sosiel up close and personal for a touch attack instead of hanging back safely to cast, channel, and buff.

Getting three Impossible Domains in time for that fight nerfs everything else he can do, which is really good if you give it the help (Domain Zealot principally, but also Mythic Focus Evo).

Those Domains are great for an MC, but on Sos you’re just nerfing yourself to get them and he’s not set up great to take advantage of them. I’m cool with a respec of him built around those Domains for variety, but he can already be a real contributor as is.
 

Rhobar121

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He doesn't have to come anywhere, he just needs to strengthen the main DPS of your group. Most often it will be Arushae/Lann or Ember (not counting the main character).
Spells like Hearth and Inspiring Command are mainly cast before a fight (you can do this easily in most fights). In the end he will have Domain Zealot anyway.

Mythic evocation is pointless, he is not designed to cast offensive spells and archon aura is not enough of a gain to make this a worthwhile mythic feat (especially since the +2 to spell dc doesn't do anything in the late game anyway).
It is better to help the rest of the group to make sure they will be able to hit the enemy. As long as you are able to hit the enemy regularly, two or three characters will be able to easily kill anything important.
 

mediocrepoet

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Magus is a super pain in the ass to play in real time unless you're familiar with the class, imo. Turn based helps get a sense of how the mechanics are actually coming together and used.

Even then, you can trigger AOO assist chains that make something explode seemingly at random.
 

ga♥

Arcane
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What's mythic evocation, if it's spell focus (mythic) it's just +1 DC and doesn't even work with expanded arsenal at the moment.
Super waste.
 

Cryomancer

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
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In my current run, I'm using mostly merc of the new lord of nothing archetypes and following the lich mythic path(But would't do the transformation) and can say. This game is much better with less guys like Sosiel.
 

Yosharian

Arcane
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I mean yeah you can just use Mercs. My issue with that is that the game seems a little flat without people like Regill in it. Even Ember, as annoying as she is sometimes, adds a fair bit to a playthrough.

As long as companions aren't actively detracting from the experience I'd rather bring one and mod them into the class I want rather than use mercs

Sosiel and Seelah are by far the worst companions, Regill and Wenduag are probably the best
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
He doesn't have to come anywhere, he just needs to strengthen the main DPS of your group. Most often it will be Arushae/Lann or Ember (not counting the main character).
Spells like Hearth and Inspiring Command are mainly cast before a fight (you can do this easily in most fights). In the end he will have Domain Zealot anyway.

Mythic evocation is pointless, he is not designed to cast offensive spells and archon aura is not enough of a gain to make this a worthwhile mythic feat (especially since the +2 to spell dc doesn't do anything in the late game anyway).
It is better to help the rest of the group to make sure they will be able to hit the enemy. As long as you are able to hit the enemy regularly, two or three characters will be able to easily kill anything important.

The interesting thing about some of the hardest fights in the game is that you do have other main characters in the story fighting with you, so you could set up a defensive perimeter and let the fight come to you while they bear the brunt. That may be how they're designed to play out. I've just found it more effective to take the fight to the enemy and eliminate them before they can do bad things, as with the Regill shot I originally poasted of him taking Darrazand down in one round with Touch of Law guaranteeing all hits.

Mythic Evo is not pointless. I've poasted tons of pics with Archon's malus. Key thing about Archon's is that it debuffs Saves, Attack, and AC. There are a few bosses that have decent odds to make the save but it's golden to soften up adds in fights like Abode. Shaken and Sicken also debuff saves which increases chances of Archon's getting there and even Seelah's Archon's forces a save that can be crit missed or affect adds if Sosiel's misses. There are two different items that buff evo dcs available before Fane and they do work on Archon's. If you want you can swap them out after casting it since Archon's is long-lasting. There are several other Evo spells that are very good in this setting (Sound Burst, Arrow of Law, Holy Smite, Arbitrament) that work well against non-bosses. Nenio's Illusion control spells can gum up the battlefield while Sosiel focuses on particular threats. Putrefaction even debuffs Will saves via WIS drain.

On Unfair that takes high level play but any other difficulty it's gold with either Sosiel or Daeran.

I want Domain Zealot immediately to turn on Touch of Good/Luck in combat doubling his action econ. Mythic Evo turns on Archon's, Sound Burst, and Arrow of Law, Abundant Casting lets him buff and cast both, then Mythic Spell Pen is such a big convenience. Improved Abundant, Improved Initiative Mythic, then Impossible for Hearth works well.

You can get Inspiring Command from Regill if you want it, although other Insight bonuses start showing up eventually. I used to multi Lann into a class with a Domain to get it there.

If you don't like Luck and Good Domain I'd just respec him into that new Cleric Class to get the ones you want, and make him more resilent in close combat if you want to add Madness. What are you typically using Madness for?
 
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Started playing this, question: why do "modal" effects not show up on the character/inventory screen? For example, if I activate Power Attack or Fighting Defensively, the stats don't change on the Character/Inventory screens, while they should (to hit, damage, etc).
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
What's mythic evocation, if it's spell focus (mythic) it's just +1 DC and doesn't even work with expanded arsenal at the moment.
Super waste.

It's +2 because it boosts both Feats. DCs are harder than other things to boost. You mean the Expended Arsenal bug? Don't need exploits to play the game well and thus effectively.

I mean if something is saving on 19 instead of a 17 it cuts the save chance in half. Game is built on marginal advantages adding up.

Sos 13 Order's Wrath.jpg

The lvl 4 Divine nukes can be easily Maxxed with Rod of Mysticism then have good chance to trigger their secondary control effects as well on top of the damage vs non-bosses. In RTwP the damage triggers Concentration checks that can interrupt spells with the control effect also stopping them if the Concentration check is made.
 

Haplo

Prophet
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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
If you have a problem with playing on Unfair, you can always try bruteforce in the form of Sosiel with 3 imposible domains (madness, coumunity, nobility), this alone should give you +20AB. It's not a very sophisticated tactic, but it's effective.
I don't care what Desiderius think about it, this tactic is simple, effective, braindead in virtually every fight on Unfair.
Well, Sosiel comes with Good pre-picked. That's a great one as well, although needs to be re-cast all the time. And Luck is cool also, particularly for crit-fishing.
So yeah, I'd do Domain Zealot first (to actually capitalize on those), Madness probably second (although going for Hearth has merit also - it can buff the entire party - also defensively - and is a stronger effect right away, as it doesn't rely on his Cleric level, but on his Wis stat - but personally I dislike 1 per rest abilities).
 

Yosharian

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If you have a problem with playing on Unfair, you can always try bruteforce in the form of Sosiel with 3 imposible domains (madness, coumunity, nobility), this alone should give you +20AB. It's not a very sophisticated tactic, but it's effective.
I don't care what Desiderius think about it, this tactic is simple, effective, braindead in virtually every fight on Unfair.
Well, Sosiel comes with Good pre-picked. That's a great one as well, although needs to be re-cast all the time. And Luck is cool also, particularly for crit-fishing.
So yeah, I'd do Domain Zealot first (to actually capitalize on those), Madness probably second (although going for Hearth has merit also - it can buff the entire party - also defensively - and is a stronger effect right away, as it doesn't rely on his Cleric level, but on his Wis stat - but personally I dislike 1 per rest abilities).
Typically when people need help in this game it's with bosses or unique encounters rather than an entire dungeon or whatever. Guarded Hearth is a simple fix to those problems, it's a 'deal with this particular encounter' fixer.

The only time I've seen people asking for help on something that isn't a boss is the cyberpunk dungeon
 

ga♥

Arcane
Vatnik
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Feb 3, 2017
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What's mythic evocation, if it's spell focus (mythic) it's just +1 DC and doesn't even work with expanded arsenal at the moment.
Super waste.

It's +2 because it boosts both Feats. DCs are harder than other things to boost. You mean the Expended Arsenal bug? Don't need exploits to play the game well and thus effectively.

I mean if something is saving on 19 instead of a 17 it cuts the save chance in half. Game is built on marginal advantages adding up.

View attachment 44800

The lvl 4 Divine nukes can be easily Maxxed with Rod of Mysticism then have good chance to trigger their secondary control effects as well on top of the damage vs non-bosses. In RTwP the damage triggers Concentration checks that can interrupt spells with the control effect also stopping them if the Concentration check is made.

I wasn't referring to the bug but that now, it doesn't work with expanded arsenal (but imho it should).

And anyway picking it early means you would leave on the table imho more useful mythics like abundant casting, and late the impact is limited, especially on the hardest difficulties.

Sometimes it can be justified by the party composition but the value gets lower ad the game progresses.
 
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I had a caster heavy party. I dispelled the shit out of him, then killed him with touch spells. Ember and Daeran oscillated between offense and keeping The gnome and tiefling alive. I think I beat him on my third attempt. I had to rest. The first two attempts I tried to do without a fresh party.
 

Haplo

Prophet
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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
If you have a problem with playing on Unfair, you can always try bruteforce in the form of Sosiel with 3 imposible domains (madness, coumunity, nobility), this alone should give you +20AB. It's not a very sophisticated tactic, but it's effective.
I don't care what Desiderius think about it, this tactic is simple, effective, braindead in virtually every fight on Unfair.
Well, Sosiel comes with Good pre-picked. That's a great one as well, although needs to be re-cast all the time. And Luck is cool also, particularly for crit-fishing.
So yeah, I'd do Domain Zealot first (to actually capitalize on those), Madness probably second (although going for Hearth has merit also - it can buff the entire party - also defensively - and is a stronger effect right away, as it doesn't rely on his Cleric level, but on his Wis stat - but personally I dislike 1 per rest abilities).
Typically when people need help in this game it's with bosses or unique encounters rather than an entire dungeon or whatever. Guarded Hearth is a simple fix to those problems, it's a 'deal with this particular encounter' fixer.

The only time I've seen people asking for help on something that isn't a boss is the cyberpunk dungeon
Rather then having a fix for select encounters, I prefer to have abilities that will effectively support my characters troughout the game - and at the same time will also enable me to beat those more difficult fights (perhaps with a tiny bit more effort).
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
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21,341
Started playing this, question: why do "modal" effects not show up on the character/inventory screen? For example, if I activate Power Attack or Fighting Defensively, the stats don't change on the Character/Inventory screens, while they should (to hit, damage, etc).
It is how it works, those screens only show permanent bonuses. You will see changes in combat logs.
 

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