Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Desiderius]

Haplo What about Arcane Enforcer dip for Dimensional Slide instead of domains?

no way to make it Swift. Witch of the Veil is only other Swift teleport IIRC. He’s going to get Swift-clogged with Aeon tho.

 

[Desiderius]

Ember can solo basically anything provided you can keep the demons off her ass. Touch AC targeting stuff is stupidly good.

More thanks to itemization, than just to mechanics. There are:

Spoiler

And most of them shine in particular in fire multi-ray spells, so Polar Ray gets the short end of the stick.

Ember is hilarious like that, Owlcat loved her so much that made archetype especially for her and filled game with items for that role. Even if it clashes with standard pathfinder's Witch roles.

Nah, those items aren’t Ember exclusive. The good ones turn Obsidian Flow from a control spell into a reliable damage source too for instance. Try Wolj with Mythic Spell Focus Transmutation (Darven’s Hat for Swift Slows) and the Fire boosting items to make the benefit AoE.

If they loved Ember as a Fire mage the would have given her a Fire Patron and a Prestige like Winter Witch. They tacked it on for story reasons but didn’t give her enough support to play her in that role. Nenio can do it better if you like pew pew. Of course MC can blow both out of the water.

 

[Daidre]

If they loved Ember as a Fire mage the would have given her a Fire Patron and a Prestige like Winter Witch.

There is big difference between classic AoE Fire mage and pew-pew ray-caster like Ember - she only needs two spells (+ metamagic) and does not really need any DC to stay functional, so no need to worry about 20 in main stat and Spell Focuses.
And she would not get anything from the Fire Analogue of Winter Witch +3 Dc is lackluster for her and half-baked version of Ascendant Element (Cold) is worthless with Mythic Feats (too late).

They tacked it on for story reasons but didn’t give her enough support to play her in that role. Nenio can do it better if you like pew pew. Of course MC can blow both out of the water.

Have you played the game already or it is all bare-bone theory?
Extra fire spell from Patron are worthless for the same reason Fire Oracle-Mystery is worthless - Red Salamander + Ember's Curse give her 90% spells fire mage would want to have. Only notable exceptions are persistent AoEs like Sirocco, but no witch patron implemented in the game gives it.

Not that I do much pew-pew with Ember anyway. I usually spec Daeran into fire magic after he gets Hellfire Ray. Medium BAB + Divine Favor/Power + Extra Feats from Combat Mystery do wonders for his hit rate.

 

[Whisper]

Good build for The ashes DLC?

 

[Seari]

Was checking out animal companions and found out that velociraptor gets iteratives and pounce. That's 7 attacks at lvl 8 with pounce, kinda crazy.

Spoiler

 

[Daidre]

Good build for The ashes DLC?

Anything with pets from lvl 1.
Preferably no spontaneous full casters - one level delay for new spell levels is brutal with lvl cap ~5 (for 6-person party).
Hexes are good - like Sleep and Protective Luck.
Rest is limited due to story reasons so lot of healing from Channeling makes life easier.

Was checking out animal companions and found out that velociraptor gets iteratives and pounce. That's 7 attacks at lvl 8 with pounce, kinda crazy.

And he also got a tripping bite!

 

[Seari]

And he also got a tripping bite!

What the hell? That's it, I'm making a raptor build. Wrath of the Raptor

 

[Desiderius]

If Ascendent Element is relevant for you you’re not doing enough damage. She even has the Hex to turn off immunity.

You need your Mythics for Favorite Meta.

And Meta is bad on Spontaneous so you’ve got another problem to solve that you don’t have on Winter Witch. WW also boosts CL to turn on Hellfires faster. Beating saves is pretty relevant against foes with Evasion until you get to Hellfire.

Ember’s class is a cluster.

Shaman WW can even pick up meta via Secret Hex.

 

[Seari]

Raptor has 14 CHA for Divine Hunter Smite Evil. Kinda cool

 

[Desiderius]

WW doesn’t get any Cold spells until Prison/Cone either, you just meta the shit out of Snowball. Unlike Scorching it bypasses SR.

 

[Desiderius]

Raptor has 14 CHA for Divine Hunter Smite Evil. Kinda cool

Yeah they raised it for all the animools. Used to be a pain to get UMD up to where it was usable.

 

[Daidre]

If Ascendent Element is relevant for you you’re not doing enough damage. She even has the Hex to turn off immunity.

You really had not played a game, aren't you? So many demons with innate Fire Resist/Immunity, so many casters prebuffed with resist Elements. Anyone in this game who want to do any elemental damage needs Ascended Element ASAP. Wasting first turn for the Hex means not killing that Balor you would kill in first round with two Hellfire Rays from Sorcerous Reflex + Standard Action.

And, imho, Favorite Meta is waste of Mythic Ability. I usually go for Bolster + Empower with Maximazed from the Rod. And I usually take Ascended Element (Fire) + x3 Abudant Casting + Second Bloodline (1 lvl Crossblooded Sorcerer dip for x3 Dragon Arcana) so nowhere to fit it in. Well, I also prefer to never rest in dungeon so a I guess we have a different approach to resource management.

WW doesn’t get any Cold spells until Prison/Cone either, you just meta the shit out of Snowball. Unlike Scorching it bypasses SR.

Main reason why WW sucks. She got Snowball and Ember got Scrorching Ray with 3x4d6 + 3x(1d6+5) (Pyromancer Ring) + 3x2d6 (Mallander Insult belt) in the beginning of chapter 3.

 

[Seari]

Raptor has 14 CHA for Divine Hunter Smite Evil. Kinda cool

Yeah they raised it for all the animools. Used to be a pain to get UMD up to where it was usable.

Wait.. You can use scrolls with animal companions? That's just silly.

 

[Desiderius]

Raptor has 14 CHA for Divine Hunter Smite Evil. Kinda cool

Yeah they raised it for all the animools. Used to be a pain to get UMD up to where it was usable.

Wait.. You can use scrolls with animal companions? That's just silly.

Mirror Image wand FTW!

But yeah Nenio can also make berry nice scrolls for them as well. Try a Sense Virals scroll on that Raptor!

 

[Daidre]

Wait.. You can use scrolls with animal companions? That's just silly.

They could also pick locks and disarm traps. And give trap disarming xp to their owner)

Btw, raptor is outliner among charismatic animals. Dogs got only 6 CHA and my kitty has 10, among those I could check right now.

 

[Desiderius]

If Ascendent Element is relevant for you you’re not doing enough damage. She even has the Hex to turn off immunity.

You really had not played a game, aren't you? So many demons with innate Fire Resist/Immunity, so many casters prebuffed with resist Elements. Anyone in this game who want to do any elemental damage needs Ascended Element ASAP. Wasting first turn for the Hex means not killing that Balor you would kill in first round with two Hellfire Rays from Sorcerous Reflex + Standard Action.

And, imho, Favorite Meta is waste of Mythic Ability. I usually go for Bolster + Empower with Maximazed from the Rod. And I usually take Ascended Element (Fire) + x3 Abudant Casting + Second Bloodline (1 lvl Crossblooded Sorcerer dip for x3 Dragon Arcana) so nowhere to fit it in. Well, I also prefer to never rest in dungeon so a I guess we have a different approach to resource management.

WW doesn’t get any Cold spells until Prison/Cone either, you just meta the shit out of Snowball. Unlike Scorching it bypasses SR.

Main reason why WW sucks. She got Snowball and Ember got Scrorching Ray with 3x4d6 + 3x(1d6+5) (Pyromancer Ring) + 3x2d6 (Mallander Insult belt) in the beginning of chapter 3.

Lol if you’re not blowing through resists like butter you really don’t know how to use Metamagic and if you’re not taking favorite meta I know you don’t. Tickling those Balors and Dragons when you could be one-shotting them.

If you’re using Quicken Rods or Reflex to get around the full action then you can use the Hex and cast the spell in the same turn, but only need to do that against immunes.

I haven’t played Ember much but I have nuked a good bit and you’re just scratching the surface.

 

[Technomancer]

Shots fired

 

[Humbaba]

I don't really do in-depth buildfagging but I can tell you that Ember with the pyromancy ring, the unholy fire belt and ascendant fire usually does like 90% of the work in high AC boss fights. Make of that what you will. I've only used Nenio once on my first playthrough and though I guess you could wrangle her into a nuker, Ember seems to be a more natural fit for that role. The only major spell Nenio gets over Ember is sirocco but I've managed without it just fine. Nenio theoretically is much better as a disabler but Ember also has good disables at her disposal (not even counting hexes).

 

[Daidre]

Lol if you’re not blowing through resists like butter you really don’t know how to use Metamagic and if you’re not taking favorite meta I know you don’t.

I've met trees in Wintersun in my last run when I was soloing it with lvl 12 wizard. It was first time I went there without Ascendant Element (CC-oriented wizard) and it turned out those fucking rotten trees got 30 Fire DR on top of 10 regeneration that you cant dispel. And for some reason they were immune to paralysis from Icy prison and Chains of Lights too.

So yeah, taking Ascendant Element (Fire) is a damn important for the dedicated nuker. I've completed the game 3 times with different flavors of full Arcane Casters (Illusionist Azata, Conjurer/Illusionist Demon and Raycaster pew-pew trickster) so I guess I have enough experience to know what I am taking about.

 

[ArchAngel]

Lol if you’re not blowing through resists like butter you really don’t know how to use Metamagic and if you’re not taking favorite meta I know you don’t.

I've met trees in Wintersun in my last run when I was soloing it with lvl 12 wizard. It was first time I went there without Ascendant Element (CC-oriented wizard) and it turned out those fucking rotten trees got 30 Fire DR on top of 10 regeneration that you cant dispel. And for some reason they were immune to paralysis from Icy prison and Chains of Lights too.

So yeah, taking Ascendant Element (Fire) is a damn important for the dedicated nuker. I've completed the game 3 times with different flavors of full Arcane Casters (Illusionist Azata, Conjurer/Illusionist Demon and Raycaster pew-pew trickster) so I guess I have enough experience to know what I am taking about.

My Nenio is using Completely Normal Spell well to improve her disabling :D

 

[Desiderius]

Let's see, 265-30 = 235 (the Trees are vulnerable to fire). And unlike Cold Fire has all those items you highlighted.

As I was saying. Fire should also turn off the regen - did you even try it?

Was playing around with Eldritch Archer when I quit and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

I used to think nuking was inferior to my normal playstyle then some dude posted this to the P:K forum:



There's almost no limit to what you can do if you look.

 

[Desiderius]

I don't really do in-depth buildfagging but I can tell you that Ember with the pyromancy ring, the unholy fire belt and ascendant fire usually does like 90% of the work in high AC boss fights. Make of that what you will. I've only used Nenio once on my first playthrough and though I guess you could wrangle her into a nuker, Ember seems to be a more natural fit for that role. The only major spell Nenio gets over Ember is sirocco but I've managed without it just fine. Nenio theoretically is much better as a disabler but Ember also has good disables at her disposal (not even counting hexes).

Lol, what specifically does Ember get that Nenio doesn't for nuking? Nenio is faster spell progression and can use meta without full action. This makes no sense.

As for disabling nothing beats Phantasmal Web/Putrefaction and the latter even sets up the former. Enemies only is huge. Rainbow Pattern even has a window where it's good. And then you've got all the scroll shenanigans, set-up for Loremaster, etc...

Ember Conj is easy on the feats since it doesn't take Spell Pen and she starts with Precise so she can use Touch Spells earlier but they're not tht good early anyway.

Haste of course is the one most people bring up though I can usually get that elsewhere.

 

[Haplo]

And he also got a tripping bite!

What the hell? That's it, I'm making a raptor build. Wrath of the Raptor

Sounds good. Its also very fast. But its stats are a bit worse AFAIR.

 

[Haplo]

Haplo What about Arcane Enforcer dip for Dimensional Slide instead of domains?

no way to make it Swift. Witch of the Veil is only other Swift teleport IIRC. He’s going to get Swift-clogged with Aeon tho.

Let's not forget Arcane Rider.
But getting Swift Slide at level 14 (provided single class - horse only) is late and getting Vulpine Pounce at 15 is very late...

 

[Humbaba]

Lol, what specifically does Ember get that Nenio doesn't for nuking? Nenio is faster spell progression and can use meta without full action. This makes no sense.

Loads of hellfire ray that's what.