Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Desiderius]

All hexes are bad compared to direct damage spells boosted by Mythic abilities. If there were Mythic abilities for hexes it could be different.

Hexes also don't use spell slots.

But they waste time you could be casting useful spells. By end of Act 3 you should stop using them.

Sleep yes, and in most cases Protective Luck as well (I’m not doing Cackle prebuff nonsense). You’re right that the action economy gets crowded which is why I often end up leaving her on the bench.

If the fights lasted longer and the timing worked better you could set up a Hex, Cackle, Spell cycle in combat that would work well but at this point it’s rarely worth the hassle.

That said the additional bite attacks require no action economy at all. And maintaining Shaken on a boss with no skill check can be very valuable depending on the party. Obv -4/-6 on Saves/AC/atk (set up a CM) even for one round is a uniquely powerful effect.

BTW Hexes are Medium Range (and Agony 60 ft) while the touch spells are Close.

 

[Desiderius]

But they waste time you could be casting useful spells. By end of Act 3 you should stop using them.

Hexes are also very useful. Slumber/Deep Slumber remains useful in even the late game. You can also run out of spells and when that happens you'll be happy to have at least a nice debuff handy.

If it is useful at that point, the enemy was so weak you might as well use a crossbow or just let fighters in the group clear them. And no, Ember does not run out of spells due to Mythic abilties.

Hexes are at their best against the strongest foes, not the weakest. If you’re trying beat saves with them (Agony excepted) you’re doing it wrong.

Slumber is mostly a trap.

 

[Desiderius]

She has a good buff at (almost) every level so you can end up blowing thru her casts, but Wrath is also a pretty high rest environment.

It’s just that she struggles to produce the impact Nenio has with her Illusion spells and Nenio’s Spellbook is bigger, she has the scroll stuff, etc…

If your MC can take full advantage of the Evil Eye debuff then she might get the nod but O/W I was usually on Nenio and straight ES Transmuter (Swift Slow from Hat and Obsidian Flow to control battlefield and turn on Fire items) Wolj.

Biggest problem with Ember is that her custom class/curse (unlike other classes) does nothing to accentuate any of her action economies. It just tacked on another one that she didn’t need. So there’s a lot of things she can do but she’s not particularly good at any of them.

If they wanted to do Fire stuff for story reasons they could have made her a Fire version of the Winter Witch with a Fire patron. But they didn’t. Making her spontaneous made her worse at Fire because it turns meta spells which are otherwise a strength of the Witch class into Full Actions.

 

[Infinitron]

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1184370/view/3218394923809327645

Update 1.3.2c
Friends!

The update 1.3.2c is here! And the achievements unlock again now!

If you experience any issues after the patch, please try to verify the integrity of game files. And if you use mods, don’t forget to update them.


Known issue:
In Areelu’s Lab, the projectors malfunction right now, but Suture will try to fix them in the next update.

Beware of possible plot spoilers!

Spoiler

Quests

• Camellia's romance event in chapter 5 still triggered, even if you didn't choose her during the jealousy scene – fixed;
  
• Demon's mythic quest could fail in chapter 5 when it wasn't supposed to – fixed;
  
• Improved the dialogue with the undead Staunton in chapter 5. He will no longer get confused about Minagho's fate, and the dialogue cues for Angel and Lich won't be available for other mythic paths anymore;
  
• In some cases, during the jealousy scene in chapter 5, characters wouldn't react to the player's choice – fixed;
  
• In the Catacombs book event, Frada got less loot from the cavern than Langrat - fixed;
  
• Sometimes, after her quest, Morevet got confused, whether Zerieks was alive or dead. We gave her some meds for her memory;
  
• Wenduag's romance dialogue branch in chapter 5 was available, even you locked yourself out of her romance – fixed;
  
• Ziforian fought against the player and didn't say his line in the dialogue, when he was on the player's side – fixed.

Areas

• A commoner in the Catacombs stopped yelling their lines while running away from centipedes – fixed;
  
• After the cutscene in the temple, Langrat returned to his place without animation – fixed;
  
• Enemies could attack during the cutscene with Langrat in the temple – fixed;
  
• Fixed camera movements inside the Hellknights Outpost;
  
• Fixed navigation errors in Drezen;
  
• Fixed one more reason why Yozz could disappear from Drezen if you told him to wait. If he already disappeared, you need to leave Drezen and come back again, and Yozz will return;
  
• Fixed the disappearance of characters' models in Sevalros's Lair;
  
• In the Catacombs below the theater, if you managed to sneak past the spider, an invisible wall could block your access to loot – fixed;
  
• In the Catacombs, a failed mobility check didn't deal damage – fixed;
  
• In Inevitable Excess, a non-functional trap was removed from Iz;
  
• It's possible now to set the oil in the Catacombs on fire by using Alchemist's bomb ability;
  
• One home guard in the Rich Quarter didn't follow the party – fixed;
  
• Optimized Neathholm area;
  
• The texts of plays in the theater were mixed up – fixed.

Classes & Mechanics

• Eye of the Swarm now works correctly on the clones of the Swarm That Walks;
  
• Fixed the error with auto-leveling after retraining (the character's stats would be too high);
  
• Fixed merging of the mythic spellbook and a spellbook of a spontaneous caster;
  
• Metamagic (Bolster Spell) now only hits the enemies;
  
• Arsinoe now sells Alchemist's Kits VI and Scroll Scriber's Kits IX;
  
• Zero State spell dispelled abilities that were never meant to be dispelled. Resolution: Toggle abilities and Arueshalae's Desna's Aegis buff can't be dispelled now.

Visual

• Fixed the position of hanged corpses;
  
• Sometimes, when you put on and removed an item in the inventory, it would not display on the character's doll properly – fixed.

Misс

• Achievements were not working – fixed;
  
• Fixed the issue of infinite loading of a save with a monk under polymorph effect;
  
• On the global map, the dashed line crossed the junction points above them instead of below – fixed.

 

[ArchAngel]

Bolster Spell for everyone!!

 

[Desiderius]

Bolster Spell for everyone!!

Heh, I was using it to trigger Enforced Vigor but probably (a little too much of) an improvement.

 

[Haplo]

Ember is a mess. Meta is a pain with spontaneous and she has no other support for nukes. Once you hit CL 19 you can pivot to Hellfires but I wouldn’t bother until then. Conj (including Summon), Necro, or Enchant all work fine until then along with Hexes.

Major Hexes are good.

She’s an Elf so can also equip bows and Longswords like Radiance. Hmmm.

Hex besides I guess Evil Eye Cackle kinda lose effectiveness around Chapter 5 as there are very few way to boost the DC unlike Spells. I guess I can use defensive Hex as well with her and spam Cackle as well.

She’s an Elf so can also equip bows and Longswords like Radiance. Hmmm.

She got -4 Attack with any weapon though, which makes attacking with her not all that good either especially as she is 3/4 BAB class.

Sigh. Access to Major and Grand Hexes is the distinguishing feature of the Witch class. If you can’t be bothered to read anything else at least make sure you check out the main feature of each class. It’s what PF is about. No wonder you guys like to dip so much.

What do saves have to do with giving everyone on your team an extra bite attack? Delicious Fright is no save for the Shaken. Turn on that Shatter!

Agony is 60 ft range (!) and you use it to take out casters who have low Fort save. Unfortunately the nauseate is bugged so Demons think it’s poison but there are plenty of Cultists you want to take out too.

Likewise the AB malus goes down to -2 so ends up being no big deal, tho IIRC she’s 1/2 BAB so obviously low priority but if you’ve got a nice proc it’s something that’s there. Nenio has a lot more support for ranged weapons.

I do wonder if you make her a Dispeller (she gets Dispel, Greater) if that effects the Radiance Dispel check. Never tried it.

Well, Delicious Freight is limited to 1 target per use and only lasts 1 round on successful save (I expect it also cannot be Cackled). Therefore still vastly inferior to Dirge of Doom and later Freightful Presence. Heck, even Mythic Dazzling / Dreadful Carnage with pumped Initimidation would be preferable.
Agony does nothing on a passed save.

No, I still value Hexes late game in tougher fights - but mainly for things that either offer no save or have effect even on a successful save (and preferably can be extended with Cackle): Protective Luck Hex is huge. So is Evil Eye, particularly past level 8. Metal Curse should be very solid also (guess its Shaman only, though). Stack Evil Eye and Metal Curse for up to -10 AC (not to mention that you can stack Evil Eye from a Witch and Shaman for -8AC from Evil Eyes alone - before Metal Curse, which makes it -14 AC - heck, you could even stack a Hampering Hex just before mass attacking the enemy for a total -18 AC - not exactly peanuts!)! Guess the bonus bites for everyone are nice also.

 

[Haplo]

But they waste time you could be casting useful spells. By end of Act 3 you should stop using them.

Hexes are also very useful. Slumber/Deep Slumber remains useful in even the late game. You can also run out of spells and when that happens you'll be happy to have at least a nice debuff handy.

If it is useful at that point, the enemy was so weak you might as well use a crossbow or just let fighters in the group clear them. And no, Ember does not run out of spells due to Mythic abilties.

Hexes are at their best against the strongest foes, not the weakest. If you’re trying beat saves with them (Agony excepted) you’re doing it wrong.

Slumber is mostly a trap.

I rather agree post mid-game. But Slumber is a serious work horse at the toughest early levels, so still valuable in my book. For best effect, first prime the victim with Camelia's Evil Eye - Saving Throws Hex.

 

[Haplo]

She has a good buff at (almost) every level so you can end up blowing thru her casts, but Wrath is also a pretty high rest environment.

It’s just that she struggles to produce the impact Nenio has with her Illusion spells and Nenio’s Spellbook is bigger, she has the scroll stuff, etc…

If your MC can take full advantage of the Evil Eye debuff then she might get the nod but O/W I was usually on Nenio and straight ES Transmuter (Swift Slow from Hat and Obsidian Flow to control battlefield and turn on Fire items) Wolj.

Biggest problem with Ember is that her custom class/curse (unlike other classes) does nothing to accentuate any of her action economies. It just tacked on another one that she didn’t need. So there’s a lot of things she can do but she’s not particularly good at any of them.

If they wanted to do Fire stuff for story reasons they could have made her a Fire version of the Winter Witch with a Fire patron. But they didn’t. Making her spontaneous made her worse at Fire because it turns meta spells which are otherwise a strength of the Witch class into Full Actions.

Regarding high rest - I think it depends on playstyle. Even if possible, I still try to rest as little as possible for my playstyle. Maybe use every 3rd "safe rest" Corruption-cancelling area or so.
Don't like depending on highly limited use/short duration powers/spells. Love Greater Enduring Spells.
And Hexes as a limitless resource with serious potential are great for me. But I can also see that the Shaman's Hex list, while much shorter, seems very nice indeed, particularly supported by certain Spirits.
Too bad that, basing on the description, Chant doesn't seem to extend Protective Luck (unless the description is lacking).

I agree with you about... lack of focus on Ember. For me the damaging spells don't really do enough of a difference to be really worth it. She makes for a nice healer with that crossbow that gives Reach metamagic, though. Gets Heal and other such spells. When going with Sosiel (whom I vastly prefer over Daeran due to Swift Domain Power buffs), who's healing capability is limited, she's nice to have around. Let's see how it goes with Lann the ranged Shaman this time around.

 

[Haplo]

Yesterday finally reached level 5 with my Sanctified Slayer.
Took Boon Companion and Spirited Charge plus bought the Ram breastplate from the dwarf smith - and am ready to rock. Ram breastplate carries Precision Strike damage (plus will copy other damage instances as I get them, I'm sure) and is obviously also doubled by Spirited charge, so a nice extra chunk of damage.

Like leopard a lot so far - he's AC is godly at that level, once he's got level 5 and dex to damage, his 3 Full BAB attacks with Pounce are a pretty big deal at that level also. So thank you for the recommendation, Desiderius.

Although needing Reduce Person to mount is a bit of pain for now - it lasts a short time at this level, is not on inquisitor spell list, can see it will be an annoyance during random encounters.
Oh well, things should improve with Greater Enduring spells.

 

[ArchAngel]

She has a good buff at (almost) every level so you can end up blowing thru her casts, but Wrath is also a pretty high rest environment.

It’s just that she struggles to produce the impact Nenio has with her Illusion spells and Nenio’s Spellbook is bigger, she has the scroll stuff, etc…

If your MC can take full advantage of the Evil Eye debuff then she might get the nod but O/W I was usually on Nenio and straight ES Transmuter (Swift Slow from Hat and Obsidian Flow to control battlefield and turn on Fire items) Wolj.

Biggest problem with Ember is that her custom class/curse (unlike other classes) does nothing to accentuate any of her action economies. It just tacked on another one that she didn’t need. So there’s a lot of things she can do but she’s not particularly good at any of them.

If they wanted to do Fire stuff for story reasons they could have made her a Fire version of the Winter Witch with a Fire patron. But they didn’t. Making her spontaneous made her worse at Fire because it turns meta spells which are otherwise a strength of the Witch class into Full Actions.

Regarding high rest - I think it depends on playstyle. Even if possible, I still try to rest as little as possible for my playstyle. Maybe use every 3rd "safe rest" Corruption-cancelling area or so.
Don't like depending on highly limited use/short duration powers/spells. Love Greater Enduring Spells.
And Hexes as a limitless resource with serious potential are great for me. But I can also see that the Shaman's Hex list, while much shorter, seems very nice indeed, particularly supported by certain Spirits.
Too bad that, basing on the description, Chant doesn't seem to extend Protective Luck (unless the description is lacking).

I agree with you about... lack of focus on Ember. For me the damaging spells don't really do enough of a difference to be really worth it. She makes for a nice healer with that crossbow that gives Reach metamagic, though. Gets Heal and other such spells. When going with Sosiel (whom I vastly prefer over Daeran due to Swift Domain Power buffs), who's healing capability is limited, she's nice to have around. Let's see how it goes with Lann the ranged Shaman this time around.

I use her to cast Heroism and some other buffs on everyone and then she just spams fire spells (mosty touch attack ones) boosted by metamagic. She has 2 items that boost fire spell damage and she uses Rods to get more out of spells. Free quicken on round 1 and quicken rod lets her go Nova on important fights while 3 spells in first 2 rounds take care of the other fights.

 

[Sarathiour]

That's probably how most people play her, an hybrid of sort between support role through heroism, death ward and the like, hex on the big meanie, and nuke role the rest of time.

 

[Yosharian]

.
Too bad that, basing on the description, Chant doesn't seem to extend Protective Luck (unless the description is lacking).

It extends Fortune and Protective Luck, I've tested it

 

[Desiderius]

She has a good buff at (almost) every level so you can end up blowing thru her casts, but Wrath is also a pretty high rest environment.

It’s just that she struggles to produce the impact Nenio has with her Illusion spells and Nenio’s Spellbook is bigger, she has the scroll stuff, etc…

If your MC can take full advantage of the Evil Eye debuff then she might get the nod but O/W I was usually on Nenio and straight ES Transmuter (Swift Slow from Hat and Obsidian Flow to control battlefield and turn on Fire items) Wolj.

Biggest problem with Ember is that her custom class/curse (unlike other classes) does nothing to accentuate any of her action economies. It just tacked on another one that she didn’t need. So there’s a lot of things she can do but she’s not particularly good at any of them.

If they wanted to do Fire stuff for story reasons they could have made her a Fire version of the Winter Witch with a Fire patron. But they didn’t. Making her spontaneous made her worse at Fire because it turns meta spells which are otherwise a strength of the Witch class into Full Actions.

Regarding high rest - I think it depends on playstyle. Even if possible, I still try to rest as little as possible for my playstyle. Maybe use every 3rd "safe rest" Corruption-cancelling area or so.
Don't like depending on highly limited use/short duration powers/spells. Love Greater Enduring Spells.
And Hexes as a limitless resource with serious potential are great for me. But I can also see that the Shaman's Hex list, while much shorter, seems very nice indeed, particularly supported by certain Spirits.
Too bad that, basing on the description, Chant doesn't seem to extend Protective Luck (unless the description is lacking).

I agree with you about... lack of focus on Ember. For me the damaging spells don't really do enough of a difference to be really worth it. She makes for a nice healer with that crossbow that gives Reach metamagic, though. Gets Heal and other such spells. When going with Sosiel (whom I vastly prefer over Daeran due to Swift Domain Power buffs), who's healing capability is limited, she's nice to have around. Let's see how it goes with Lann the ranged Shaman this time around.

Yeah having the Heals on tap with Ember is nice, but Seelah can do some healing too as long as you're channel healing out of combat or topping up with Lay on Hands. Sosiel is better TB where you can make sure to get his Swifts in each round. Don't forget to pick up Nobility on either Sos or Reg - it's a game changer.

The reason it's higher rest is that resting makes your Army stronger instead of your Kingdom weaker. If P:K more rest = later items. Here more rest = earlier items.

Enduring Mythics are a convenience that you can just get through bubble buff mod. Taking abundant instead is much more powerful/versatile. And Enduring doesn't really kick in until you don't really need it anymore.

 

[Daidre]

Here more rest = earlier items.

Unless you rest and time skip so much that you'll fuck up timing for the secret ending.

And after they've fixed timeskip in ch 4 constant ticking of the clock is more real than ever.

 

[Humbaba]

Unless you rest and time skip so much that you'll fuck up timing for the secret ending.

Tbf they do give you a lot of time for that one, I was over a year early when I came back from the Abyss. Then again, I only rest once Sosiel runs out of heals, which isn't too often.

 

[Daidre]

Tbf they do give you a lot of time for that one, I was over a year early when I came back from the Abyss. Then again, I only rest once Sosiel runs out of heals, which isn't too often.

I do not think it is possible. Game starts at 08/4715. Drezen is usually taken 09-10/4715 and I usually leave for ch 4 around 12/4715. Add to it 6 months timeskip + 20 days in transit and this means returning to ch 5 around 08/4716.
In the most optimistic case it gives 8-9 months till secret ending.

If you've arrived "over the year early" this means you did it at 04/4718 (should be 04/4717, but due to bug works in forth month regardless of year), whole year later. Or before they fixed ch 4.

 

[Humbaba]

I do not think it is possible. Game starts 08/4715. Drezen is usually taken 09-10/4715 and I usually leave for ch 4 around 12/4715. Add to it 6 months timeskip + 20 days in transit and this means returning to ch 5 around 08/4716.
In the most optimistic case it gives 8-9 months till secret ending.

If you've arrived "over the year early" this means you did it at 04/4718 (should be 04/4717, but due to bug works in forth month regardless of year), whole year later. Or before they fixed ch 4.

It was like 13 months or so I think, I posted about it here but I can't be bothered to check. Either that or I arrived just under a year early, I might be misremembering. But I do know for sure that I arrived in the year before the special date.

Or before they fixed ch 4

Also possible.

 

[Desiderius]

That's probably how most people play her, an hybrid of sort between support role through heroism, death ward and the like, hex on the big meanie, and nuke role the rest of time.

Ways to take advantage of Ember (lol I can't believe they screwed up the spells available on the class progression screen - this was working properly last time I played):

(1) Conjuration

Doesn't need Spell Pen so can take Summoning Feats instead, and Summoning frees up action economy for Hexes. Spontaneous can even get away with the Summoning Mythics instead of Abundant, and Summoning gets item support midgame as well.

Starts with Precise for Snowballs. Web, Glitterdust, Stinking Cloud (vs Human Casters), Cave Fangs, and Rift of Ruin are are very good crowd control that bypass SR. At levels without a good spell you have the good buffs. Can still switch to Hellfires at CL19.

(2) Necromancy

She has access to all the Necro Rays and starts with Precise. Spamming Enervation with meta Rods is pretty good vs Bosses since no save. Fear is Shaken even on made save, Plague Storm is nasty and the she gets the late nukes. Can take Plagued Beneficial Curse to boost Disease spells (very little immune to Disease). Note: Scare is great for early game, especially Tavern fight. Umbral Strike bypasses concealment but she gets True Seeing, Mass.

(3) Enchanter

Her unique Ninth Level spell is an Enchantment. She gets just enough decent/good ones (Command, Hold/Hold, Mass, Crushing, Confusion -> main go to, Mind Fog, Power Words, Insanity, Feeble) to be viable (you use Hexes on fights where they don't apply) but hard to reliably beat saves on high difficulties without MC Mythic abilities.

(4) Evocation

Can use Sorcerous Reflex/Rods to get around Full Round Meta problem. Swift cast/standard Hex but touch burn is short range while Hexes are Medium. Also gets some control via Ice/Volcanic Storm Difficult Terrain, lategame Stormbolts, Chain Lightning, and Hellfires. Burning Arc doesn't need an attack and Molten Orb counts as a weapon so gets her -4 malus (goes down to -2 at lvl 10)

(5) Frightful Aspect + Transformation + Elven Proficiencies (Radiance)

Go off king.

In any case you'll want to make sure to pick up Beast's Gift and Lifegiver. I like Agony (60 ft range) and Delicious Fright can be good until you get Frightful if you use a lot of Shatter. Major Healing ticks up to Critical at lvl 15 so also worth picking up.

 

[Desiderius]

Here more rest = earlier items.

Unless you rest and time skip so much that you'll fuck up timing for the secret ending.

And after they've fixed timeskip in ch 4 constant ticking of the clock is more real than ever.

Time skip? Nah I just rest to refresh spells and abilities but take advantage of having more rests to use more one minute and rnd/lvl stuff. Painless with Bubble Buff and fights are super fast.

I was doing ch 4 on one rest with Hand healing restoring spells. I think they’ve fixed that.

 

[Delterius]

wish there was a way to make everything vulnerable to level drain. enervation with x4 crits would be a funny emulation of the finger of death meta of bg2.

 

[Desiderius]

You can tell I haven’t played Ember much since I don’t know which bosses are Immune. Did have an epic fight in Drezen tavern on Unfair that she pretty much soloed with Enervation and Evil Eye + Cackle.

Evil Eye + Cackle + Reached Bestow Curse (Greater) would be a pretty nice package to have access to.

 

[Humbaba]

Ember can solo basically anything provided you can keep the demons off her ass. Touch AC targeting stuff is stupidly good.

 

[Daidre]

Ember can solo basically anything provided you can keep the demons off her ass. Touch AC targeting stuff is stupidly good.

More thanks to itemization, than just to mechanics. There are:

Spoiler

And most of them shine in particular in fire multi-ray spells, so Polar Ray gets the short end of the stick.

Ember is hilarious like that, Owlcat loved her so much that made archetype especially for her and filled game with items for that role. Even if it clashes with standard pathfinder's Witch roles.

 

[Seari]

Haplo What about Arcane Enforcer dip for Dimensional Slide instead of domains?