Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Xamenos]

They are directly linked. The amount of base classes is there so you won't feel the need to multiclass to play a character you want (divine warrior -> Paladin or Inquisitor or War Priest, instead of simply Fighter/Cleric).

Some amount of hybridization would indeed be caused by that. But you can't seriously tell me that Pathfinder needed Paladins AND Inquisitors AND Warpriests to cover the Fighter/Cleric niche. Not when all DnD versions older than 3rd had managed with just the Paladin.

The cause lies elsewhere. More specifically, with Wizards' treatment of 3.5. They flooded the edition with an absurd amount of extra classes, Prestige or otherwise, making the wet dreams of every munchkin a reality. It was these people that Paizo wanted to cater to, and Pathfinder's classes with their archetypes were their attempt to do so without repeating WotC's mistake and enabling quite that much munchkinery. It was only... moderately succesful.

 

[Desiderius]

Cackle and slumber would be way over the top.

No, you missed my point. Slumber already is rnd/lvl which is effectively infinite duration. But you still have to penetrate Spell Resistance, beat a Will save, and find mobs who aren't immune (since your other hex doesn't help you there), which is no small task. Luckily you've got Demons in this one instead of Undead, which helps immensely (and also makes all those anti-Outsider spells from P:K suddenly very relevant, just in time for two new "divine" classes which don't get them).

The point is that Ember's already invested her first two hex choices in offensive hexes that have nothing to do with Cackle, greatly devaluing Cackle itself, since the Cackle Offensive Hexes target Will as well and would thus be largely redundant.

 

[Desiderius]

They are directly linked. The amount of base classes is there so you won't feel the need to multiclass to play a character you want (divine warrior -> Paladin or Inquisitor or War Priest, instead of simply Fighter/Cleric).

Some amount of hybridization would indeed be caused by that. But you can't seriously tell me that Pathfinder needed Paladins AND Inquisitors AND Warpriests to cover the Fighter/Cleric niche. Not when all DnD versions older than 3rd had managed with just the Paladin.

The cause lies elsewhere. More specifically, with Wizards' treatment of 3.5. They flooded the edition with an absurd amount of extra classes, Prestige or otherwise, making the wet dreams of every munchkin a reality. It was these people that Paizo wanted to cater to, and Pathfinder's classes with their archetypes were their attempt to do so without repeating WotC's mistake and enabling quite that much munchkinery. It was only... moderately succesful.

I like all the 3.5e classes, but don't much like how good splashing is. It's akin to the multi-classing issue in Wiz 7.

Pathfinder base classes strike a good balance, but the hybrid classes have so many abilities that need all your levels to get decent that they make splashes too much of a hassle. With Paladins and Inquisitors both built that way, there is enough distinction between them that each class pretty much holds it's own, but Warpriest is a completely unnecessary clusterfuck. About the only unique thing you're doing that might be worthwhile is (eventually) giving big dice to small weapons, but that's hardly worth a whole class.

 

[Desiderius]

How do the hexes/cackle work with autocast? They couldn't be active together in the CotW version, and autocasted hexes had the annoying quirk of the witch either remaining idle after success (instead of switching to a different target) or running up to the enemy if she didn't have a ranged weapon equipped.

You keep Cackle/Chant on autocast and manually cast your Hexes since you have so many that you can customize which one you use for each situation. Only time things get hairy is when you need to move, so a build that can Charge productively (with a reach weapon say) would be a good idea. Your main function is just to stay in range and threaten a lot of mobs with it instead of attacking, but you can get some chip damage in with AoOs.

Obv Ember would play entirely different.

 

[Desiderius]

Zen Archer companion:

Starts with three shots (Flurry + Rapid) and Combat Reflexes, and all three Snap Shot feats are in game, then can get Cleaving Shot for his first Mythic Power, which gives him 10ft AoE on crits/kills.

 

[Roguey]

Gameplay (itemization, mob variety, area design) great, writing often the Potter-style gossip-girl shit that P:K largely avoided

Wrath going to be the Deadfire of Pathfinder, huh. At least strategic gameplay's still in.

 

[Desiderius]

Gameplay (itemization, mob variety, area design) great, writing often the Potter-style gossip-girl shit that P:K largely avoided

Wrath going to be the Deadfire of Pathfinder, huh. At least strategic gameplay's still in.

This is just the Alpha. There's already more diamonds in that rough than PoE ever had. We'll see if they can find a lawnmower.

 

[Cryomancer]

Any details about the succubus companion romance questline?

 

[Nm6k]

Romances are apparently not in the alpah

 

[Ghulgothas]

Any details about the succubus companion romance questline?

She slips into some hot black-leather geddup if you pick one of the Naughty Mythic Paths.

 

[~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-AIN'T]

So I finished the alpha with my arcanist lich. Steam says 24 hours, which is a hell of a lot for an alpha so that's cool. General notes:

-Gets progressively buggier as you go through. At one point my save broke completely on whenever going to the adventure map and I had to reload a ways back to get it working again. But meh it's an alpha, it should be expected to be very buggy.
-Performance is also complete dogshit. I played most of Kingmaker on high settings and it ran fine. The alpha I played on low settings most of the time and got lots of stuttering and saving/loading took a long time. Again, alpha - I wouldn't expect the devs to do a major performance pass until much later.
-Some of the mythic abilities are ludicrously powerful. 4 extra spells per day from 3 separate levels? Permanent rage? Haste + blur whenever entering combat? Sounds like it might be too much but after playing I'm pretty ok with it because:
-Overall it's much more difficult than Kingmaker. I played on core rules (which is now a default difficulty setting) and found it solidly challenging. The fact that so many enemies are demons means lots of resistances + enemies do lots of status effects to you. Caster AI has also been boosted for some casters, hopefully it's still work in progress though because many casters you can still just select all > left click and kill very fast. Still, I'd say there aren't enough party vs party fights which are always the most fun in this type of game.
-Regill is by far the best companion. Awesome lines, great delivery by the voice actor, and it doesn't hurt that he does excellent damage after buying the extremely good gnome hammer sold by the quartermaster and taking the dex to damage mythic feat. Overall writing is pretty mediocre however, though it's obvious there's a bunch of placeholder stuff, especially for some of the companions (the game completely forgets about Woljif at a certain point and you just permanently lose him).
-Didn't have much opportunity to play around with the lich spells before the end of the alpha but Repurpose seems like a lot of fun. Do damage over time plus if the enemy dies while the spell is active it gets revived as an undead under your control. Went around with a personal undead fiend minotaur guardian for the last couple fights.

Overall it was a lot of fun, I'm pretty hyped.

 

[Cryomancer]

~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-AIN'T, how is the quest to become a Lich? Can you be a lich sorcerer?

 

[Cyberarmy]

Any details about the succubus companion romance questline?

You die after the first kiss, game over.
But worth it.

 

[Elex]

So I finished the alpha with my arcanist lich. Steam says 24 hours, which is a hell of a lot for an alpha so that's cool. General notes:

-Gets progressively buggier as you go through. At one point my save broke completely on whenever going to the adventure map and I had to reload a ways back to get it working again. But meh it's an alpha, it should be expected to be very buggy.
-Performance is also complete dogshit. I played most of Kingmaker on high settings and it ran fine. The alpha I played on low settings most of the time and got lots of stuttering and saving/loading took a long time. Again, alpha - I wouldn't expect the devs to do a major performance pass until much later.
-Some of the mythic abilities are ludicrously powerful. 4 extra spells per day from 3 separate levels? Permanent rage? Haste + blur whenever entering combat? Sounds like it might be too much but after playing I'm pretty ok with it because:
-Overall it's much more difficult than Kingmaker. I played on core rules (which is now a default difficulty setting) and found it solidly challenging. The fact that so many enemies are demons means lots of resistances + enemies do lots of status effects to you. Caster AI has also been boosted for some casters, hopefully it's still work in progress though because many casters you can still just select all > left click and kill very fast. Still, I'd say there aren't enough party vs party fights which are always the most fun in this type of game.
-Regill is by far the best companion. Awesome lines, great delivery by the voice actor, and it doesn't hurt that he does excellent damage after buying the extremely good gnome hammer sold by the quartermaster and taking the dex to damage mythic feat. Overall writing is pretty mediocre however, though it's obvious there's a bunch of placeholder stuff, especially for some of the companions (the game completely forgets about Woljif at a certain point and you just permanently lose him).
-Didn't have much opportunity to play around with the lich spells before the end of the alpha but Repurpose seems like a lot of fun. Do damage over time plus if the enemy dies while the spell is active it gets revived as an undead under your control. Went around with a personal undead fiend minotaur guardian for the last couple fights.

Overall it was a lot of fun, I'm pretty hyped.

I know is alfa but the problems look identical to kingmaker at release.
It feel like they work exactly like before and nothing is changed.

 

[CaesarCzech]

Any details about the succubus companion romance questline?

You die after the first kiss, game over.
But worth it.

Even i can tell that is bullshit.

Draining Kiss: The Fiend kisses a creature Charmed by it or a willing creature. The target must make a DC 15 Constitution saving throw against this magic, taking 32 (5d10 + 5) psychic damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. The target's hit point maximum is reduced by an amount equal to the damage taken. This reduction lasts until the target finishes a Long Rest. The target dies if this effect reduces its hit point maximum to 0.

Even if we assume its on permanently there is no way that Character that is supposed to go to mythic cant tank that even if simple kiss would feel like Sadomaso sex session. So from story and mechanics perspective it would be total bullshit.

 

[The Great Deceiver]

How's the rotating camera? I'm bit worried about that one, as I prefer not to constantly use it to get a good view as is often the case in isometric games with one.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

How's the rotating camera? I'm bit worried about that one, as I prefer not to constantly use it to get a good view as is often the case in isometric games with one.

Some area are clearly designed for you to use it. The alpha was set in a city with tall buildings and all. On default perspective (or even if you just move the camera once), your view will be blocked by those buildings. You absolutely need to rotate.

 

[purpleblob]

So I finished the alpha with my arcanist lich. Steam says 24 hours, which is a hell of a lot for an alpha so that's cool. General notes:

-Gets progressively buggier as you go through. At one point my save broke completely on whenever going to the adventure map and I had to reload a ways back to get it working again. But meh it's an alpha, it should be expected to be very buggy.
-Performance is also complete dogshit. I played most of Kingmaker on high settings and it ran fine. The alpha I played on low settings most of the time and got lots of stuttering and saving/loading took a long time. Again, alpha - I wouldn't expect the devs to do a major performance pass until much later.
-Some of the mythic abilities are ludicrously powerful. 4 extra spells per day from 3 separate levels? Permanent rage? Haste + blur whenever entering combat? Sounds like it might be too much but after playing I'm pretty ok with it because:
-Overall it's much more difficult than Kingmaker. I played on core rules (which is now a default difficulty setting) and found it solidly challenging. The fact that so many enemies are demons means lots of resistances + enemies do lots of status effects to you. Caster AI has also been boosted for some casters, hopefully it's still work in progress though because many casters you can still just select all > left click and kill very fast. Still, I'd say there aren't enough party vs party fights which are always the most fun in this type of game.
-Regill is by far the best companion. Awesome lines, great delivery by the voice actor, and it doesn't hurt that he does excellent damage after buying the extremely good gnome hammer sold by the quartermaster and taking the dex to damage mythic feat. Overall writing is pretty mediocre however, though it's obvious there's a bunch of placeholder stuff, especially for some of the companions (the game completely forgets about Woljif at a certain point and you just permanently lose him).
-Didn't have much opportunity to play around with the lich spells before the end of the alpha but Repurpose seems like a lot of fun. Do damage over time plus if the enemy dies while the spell is active it gets revived as an undead under your control. Went around with a personal undead fiend minotaur guardian for the last couple fights.

Overall it was a lot of fun, I'm pretty hyped.

Woljif is stretch goal companion - so not surprising some of his content is missing.

I do agree Regil is fantastic. Lann is awesome too.

 

[Desiderius]

How's the rotating camera? I'm bit worried about that one, as I prefer not to constantly use it to get a good view as is often the case in isometric games with one.

Some area are clearly designed for you to use it. The alpha was set in a city with tall buildings and all. On default perspective (or even if you just move the camera once), your view will be blocked by those buildings. You absolutely need to rotate.

Buildings are semi-transparent.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

-Gets progressively buggier as you go through.

uh-oh....

 

[toroks]

Looks like the Oracle is supposed to be xbowing (you find busted Oracle specific xbow around same time you meet him, and he has 7 STR), but starts out without any ranged feats. He does have the skills to make in-combat healing viable for a change and you may need it with all the mass battles. Staggered first round means casting, then shooting after.

7 STR, so this oracle can't even make use of his medium armor and shield proficiencies...?

 

[Cryomancer]

The target must make a DC 15 Constitution saving throw against

I agree that a high level char can survive but it is from D&D 5e. On Pathfinder, Succubus are far nastier ( https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/demon/succubus/ ) but the companion is probably high level too. She is not the average succubus. Resist the manipulation of Nocticula is far harder than any succubus. On Kingmaker, you can romance even a Fey...

 

[guestposting]

I know is alfa but the problems look identical to kingmaker release.
It feel like they work exactly like before and nothing is changed.

If WOTR’s problems in alpha seem like Kingmaker’s problems on release... doesn’t that mean Owlcat’s improved dramatically? They’ll spend the year before the game comes out polishing it instead of the year after.

In my experience, the bugs aren’t that bad—expected a lot worse. There’s some missing content and some obvious placeholder text. Also the strategic army management layer is still pretty rough, but they say they’ve only just started working that out.

 

[CaesarCzech]

The target must make a DC 15 Constitution saving throw against

I agree that a high level char can survive but it is from D&D 5e. On Pathfinder, Succubus are far nastier ( https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/outsiders/demon/succubus/ ) but the companion is probably high level too. She is not the average succubus. Resist the manipulation of Nocticula is far harder than any succubus. On Kingmaker, you can romance even a Fey...

My question had to do if it is always on since im sorry but kiss always causing energy drain would make succubus far less usefull for infiltration. Well did some googling and apparently Arushale cannot control it due to basically being on knife edge between good and evil due to her nature being in flux.

 

[guestposting]

Gameplay (itemization, mob variety, area design) great, writing often the Potter-style gossip-girl shit that P:K largely avoided

Wrath going to be the Deadfire of Pathfinder, huh. At least strategic gameplay's still in.

This feels wrong to me. Usually when the writing in WOTR is bad, it feels like it was lifted straight from the modules. Really nothing in common with the tumblr overdose stuff in Deadfire. The stretch goal companion is the only one who’s truly cringe and I’d be shocked if he doesn’t get an editing pass (this character is so unfinished that he just disappears halfway through chapter 2, so he’s clearly a work in progress).

Have you played Kingmaker yet? Or Deadfire for that matter?