Pathfinder vs. Divinity 2 vs. Pillars 2

[JohnSmith24601]

I dug around for their sales records, but those are all pretty old. So who is coming out on top in 2020?

Also, thoughts and comments on the 3 games? How are the stories? What about gameplay?

PS: General chit chat thread. Please be nice

 

[retinoid]

Pathfinder is the best CRPG I have played in over 15 years.



I give it a 6.5/10

 

[Ghulgothas]

Kingmaker's the best (and as of yet, the only) one to try adapting the clerical minutia of an existing tabletop game, and is all the more fun for it.

Kingmaker is RTwP, so is Pillars when played correctly. Divinity isn't.

 

[Pink Eye]

It depends on which gameplay system you prefer, really. Pathfinder: Kingmaker is Real Time with Pause. It also has a plethora of options to slow combat down if you're having trouble following what's on the screen. If that still isn't enough there is also a Turn Based mod. Pathfinder is supported by a good rule set. Lots of classes and feats. So you can create all types of builds. Divinity: Original Sin 2 is Turn Based exclusively. But has better gameplay. You can interact with the environment and enemies in ways that you can't in Pathfinder: Kingmaker. Such as catching the floor on fire. Or using a water spell to get rid of fire. Haven't played enough of Pillars of Eternity 2 to share my opinion on it.

Anyways, Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous is going to be bigger than Kingmaker. More feats. More classes. A mythic system. A built in Turn Based mode. And hopefully will be less buggy than Kingmaker on day one. If you enjoyed Divinity: Original Sin 2, then you should know that the developers are currently working on Baldur's Gate 3.

 

[JohnSmith24601]

Pathfinder is the best CRPG I have played in over 15 years.

Hmm...Not sure if I'd go that far, but I do love Pathfinder a lot. I'd say Mask of the Betrayer, Dragon Age: Origins, New Vegas and probably Hordes of the Underdark all outshine Pathfinder in the story department if I'm totally honest.

Kingmaker's the best (and as of yet, the only) one to try adapting the clerical minutia of an existing tabletop game, and is all the more fun for it.

Yeah I agree. There's just something magical about it, even though I heard that it's not exactly an accurate adaptation. It's still very fun, and I can look past its flaws.

It depends on which gameplay system you prefer, really. Pathfinder: Kingmaker is Real Time with Pause. It also has a plethora of options to slow combat down if you're having trouble following what's on the screen. If that still isn't enough there is also a Turn Based mod. Pathfinder is supported by a good rule set. Lots of classes and feats. So you can create all types of builds. Divinity: Original Sin 2 is Turn Based exclusively. But has better gameplay. You can interact with the environment and enemies in ways that you can't in Pathfinder: Kingmaker. Such as catching the floor on fire. Or using a water spell to get rid of fire. Haven't played enough of Pillars of Eternity 2 to share my opinion on it.

Anyways, Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous is going to be bigger than Kingmaker. More feats. More classes. A mythic system. A built in Turn Based mode. And hopefully will be less buggy than Kingmaker on day one. If you enjoyed Divinity: Original Sin 2, then you should know that the developers are currently working on Baldur's Gate 3.

I'd say I just really dislike the fake turn based mode in Pillars of Eternity 2. Knock down doesn't do anything (enemy gets up in the same round), initiative works backwards (person with low initiative acts first), dex becomes dump stat because there's no recovery time in turn based, consequently everybody including the mages wear heavy armors, etc...Feels like it's just a money-grabbing slap-on to draw in more players due to the extreme low sale at launch. Divinity 2's system is just miles ahead of this. But then again, I really don't mesh well with the cartoonish art style in Divinity 2 lol...I guess I'm probably just getting too old.

How's the turn based mod for Pathfinder??!! I haven't tried it. Is it as good as people say?

Oh man, I'm super hyped about Wrath of the Righteous, actually! I didn't like fighting the fey that much in the first game. I heard that we get to travel to the abyss in this game? If so, it's gonna be awesome because I love killing demons. And undead too, I guess. Those are my two favorite things to kill ;P

 

[Pink Eye]

>How's the turn based mod for Pathfinder??!! I haven't tried it. Is it as good as people say?
I don't play Turn Based. But I did mess with it a bit in the DLC dungeon. It's fine. The mod developer did a good job implementing it. I have no idea how it plays in the main game though. There are more encounters in the main game, than in the DLC dungeon.

>I heard that we get to travel to the abyss in this game?
Just like Kingmaker, Wrath is going to be based off of an existing Adventure Path. The AP revolves around crusading against a legion of nasty demons who threaten to overtake Golarion. The main selling point of Wrath is the mythic system. Which, suffice to say, is quite "Mythic" indeed.

 

[JohnSmith24601]

>I heard that we get to travel to the abyss in this game?
Just like Kingmaker, Wrath is going to be based off of an existing Adventure Path. The AP revolves around crusading against a legion of nasty demons who threaten to overtake Golarion. The main selling point of Wrath is the mythic system. Which, suffice to say, is quite "Mythic" indeed.

Ah!!! You've just made my day! That is awesome news.

 

[tindrli]

divinity 2. turn based all the way

 

[jungl]

They both are popamole crpgs. Linear rairoaded gameplay and story. FIght, story segment, fight, story segment. Quite boring.

I want to play another game like arcanum where I can be a cozy hobbit that wears a gentleman suit throws a boomerang and chills in gentlemens club.

 

[JohnSmith24601]

They both are popamole crpgs. Linear rairoaded gameplay and story. FIght, story segment, fight, story segment. Quite boring.

I want to play another game like arcanum where I can be a cozy hobbit that wears a gentleman suit throws a boomerang and chills in gentlemens club.

haha I heard the fans recently made like an enhanced version of this game. You might want to check it out. I played a dumb af ogre lol...

 

[luj1]

I dug around for their sales records, but those are all pretty old. So who is coming out on top in 2020?

Also, thoughts and comments on the 3 games? How are the stories? What about gameplay?

PS: General chit chat thread. Please be nice

Neither of them is good mate.

Kingmaker turns into a awkward 4X hybrid after Chapter I

DOS has a goofy tone, MMO itemization and gimmicky explosive barrels behind every corner.

Pillars is probably the worst of the bunch. Lore dumps, bland world, abhorrent ruleset, bizarre core systems. Avoid it.

Oh yeah, and all of them have poorly written cringe companions. Gun to my head, I'd probably pick Kingmaker. Just remember even if you play with Kingdom on "auto" or "effortless" you still need something like Cheat Menu or Bag of Tricks to truly be safe from game-breaking bugs. I also used Fast Travel and Scale XP to make the game worth it.
I guess Kingmaker > DOS >>>> Pillars.

EDIT: Just realized you meant Divinity 2, not DOS 2.

 

[JohnSmith24601]

I dug around for their sales records, but those are all pretty old. So who is coming out on top in 2020?

Also, thoughts and comments on the 3 games? How are the stories? What about gameplay?

PS: General chit chat thread. Please be nice

Neither of them is good mate.

Kingmaker turns into a awkward 4X hybrid after Chapter I

DOS has a goofy tone, MMO itemization and gimmicky explosive barrels behind every corner.

Pillars is probably the worst of the bunch. Lore dumps, bland world, abhorrent ruleset, bizarre core systems. Avoid it.

Oh yeah, and all of them have poorly written cringe companions. Gun to my head, I'd probably pick Kingmaker. Just remember even if you play with Kingdom on "auto" or "effortless" you still need something like Cheat Menu or Bag of Tricks to truly be safe from game-breaking bugs. I also used Fast Travel and Scale XP to make the game worth it.
I guess Kingmaker > DOS >>>> Pillars.

EDIT: Just realized you meant Divinity 2, not DOS 2.

Oh I actually meant DoS 2. I know, I know, there was a game called Divinity 2 that came out ages ago, but I don't think anybody nowadays has played it or even heard of it. Usually only weirdos like me have played and enjoyed it lol...

I actually agree that Kingmaker is the best out of the 3 and that Pillars 2 is way worst than the other two.

Yeah, Kingmaker can definitely benefit from just cutting out the entirety of the kingdom management thing. Nobody I know actually likes it. Everytime there's some events going on, you have to resolve it personally. It's like checking facebook sometimes, and I hate doing that in real life lol...

 

[Haplo]

DoS, beyond the initial novelty, is shit. Shit level system, shit itemization, shit armor system, shit initiative system. Irredeemable.


With that out of the way, the contest is between Kingmaker and Deadfire. Here its much closer, but Kingmaker does win this one. Better companions, system, combat and main story integration. Character and party building are pure porn there.
Kingmaker scores big time also for flawless Turn Based mod, while Deadfire's TB mode is slapped on and rather poorly implemented (ironically Deadfire's is "official", while Kingmaker's modded). With the rules already present, Deadfire's Turn Based would massively benefit from making individual initiative based, rather then round based. Although some enemies would still remain too bullet spongy, it could have been something great regardless. Personally I love personal initiative based systems, like HoMM V. Alas.

Deadfire does win in itemization and graphics departments. Exploration is nice, some quests offer multiple solutions and are written well. And its real time combat system is quite creative, if in practice doesn't work as well as the tried and tested Pathfinder/DnD. Main quest ends disappointing, ending rushed and the factions are poorly integrated, though. Companions can be annoying.

 

[Iluvcheezcake]

Kingmakers Turn Based mod is pure incline. I generally do not use mods but this one completely changed the gameplay for me

 

[Suicidal]

Spellforce 3 is better than all 3 of them, play that instead.

 

[Daedalos]

Pathfinder BY FAR wins this one. It's not even a contest. I like turn-based better than RTwP obviously, but D:OS 2 was so shit in all other departments, that Pathfinder wins.

Pathfinder is one, if not THE best RTwP RPG i've ever played. A better comparison would be Pillars 1, which was also decent, but mechanically and combat-wise much worse than pathfinder.

 

[Sykar]

Pathfinder is the best RtwP game, better than almost any Infinity game bar PS:T though it beats that one in terms of combat and class build variety easily. PS:T has the better writing and plot though. Companions is a wash.

 

[JohnSmith24601]

Pathfinder is the best RtwP game, better than almost any Infinity game bar PS:T though it beats that one in terms of combat and class build variety easily. PS:T has the better writing and plot though. Companions is a wash.

Yeah, as far as I can remember, Pathfinder is the only one that lets you level up your companion in whichever class you like. Companions from other RPG's can normally only be single class, which I never really understand the idea behind that restriction...For lore purposes, I guess? But then, I thought we were the ones "creating the lore" by playing the game lol...

 

[Neroon]

Currently playing PFKM for the first time and played DOS2 and PoE2 only recently as well. So here's my two cents:

DOS2 was the biggest disappointment in the recent years for me. Combat is basically an exercise in cheating better than the AI rather than any actual use of tactics and having to constantly replace equipment with better versions to due equipment itself having levels is nothing but an annoying new level of RPG-Paperwork. Worst instance of MMORPGisation of a single player RPG since obsessive class balancing became a thing. Plot and lore never clicked for me either. Tries humour, but with nothing but more or less evil factions the setting was borderline grimdark.
Best music of the three though.

PoE2 is the current winner for me. I had more fun with it's TB combat than in DOS2 by a lot. Note that I deliberately wrote "more fun" not "is better". I don't really care that it makes dex a dump stat. It's a single player RPG not a MMORPG, I don't care about lack of balance. My wizard main character still wore a robe instead of heavy armour. Because he is a Wizard and that's what he is supposed to equip. No one is forcing you to do immersion breaking minmaxing. One move, one action, per encounter spells, simply but a lot like fantasy XCOM.
The main plot was lacking, but the stuff in between was way more interesting than in DOS2 IMHO. The conference calls with the gods, the chats with the faction leaders, sidequests with plot. Also very pleasantly surprised it wasn't a setting about Noble Savage natives and evil protoNazi Colonialists.

Gets an extra point for it's inventory: No annoying carry limit. Good sorting options and even a search button.

PFKM I'm in chapter two so can't really give a full verdict. So just some postiives and negatives:
+ Really like the plot idea: Instead of a big quest to defeat a villian, that's just phase one and then you at long last get to take over yourself.
- All those classic D&D RPGs came with a big manual. For a reason! The mechanics are hardly ever explained. Someone who's never played a D&D game before and lost their internet just after downloading it would be utterly lost. Also lack of feedback in the combat log. Sometimes my fighters only attack once per turn despite now having a BAB of 6. I'm sure there's a reason for that in the Pathfinder mechanics, but the game never tells me what it is or how to avoid it. Octavia, when launching a scorching ray at an enemy engaged by both Valerie and Amiri sometimes gets a sneak attack bonus, sometimes she doesn't. Game never bothers to tell me what caused it to trigger or caused it to fail triggering.
+ Vastest pool of classes, builds, etc of the three.
- Suffers from "So what am I actually supposed to do?" syndrome. Made worse due to timers ticking in the background, so you don't know if you can afford to just go explore and hope to find something.
- Missiable companions, NPC and the like. I don't care how "realistic" that's supposed to be. It's bad game design.
+ Finally again a game in a "real" High Fantasy world. RPG's have become so obsessed with NOT going "Tolkienesque" in their worldbuilding, that i think we didn't have one that played the trope straight since NWN2. So by now it's basically a refreshing change.

Neutral: I think Kingdom Management could be done well and shouldn't have been absent. But it was poorly implemented.

 

[Outmind]

I never knew Kingmaker had a turn-based mod. Might be fun to check it out.

Better companions

I haven't played Pillars 2 yet, but I'm pretty sure Eder is in there again. That alone makes the game's companion roster better than Kingmaker's. The companions there are just so cringeworthy. A textbook idiot barbarian but oh she's a girl so it's "cool", an annoying scribe, a not that pretty knight with a horribly mismatched voice actress, a gloomy cleric, an insufferable archeologist, a pansy priest, and an edgelord scythe-wielding woman, none of whom have much personality. The twins were OK i guess, but that's about the extent of it.

 

[JarlFrank]

I never knew Kingmaker had a turn-based mod. Might be fun to check it out.

The best part is you can activate and deactivate it with one click of a button so you can mow through the trash encounters in RTwP but when a challenging encounter comes up you go turn based.

 

[Outmind]

That is useful indeed!

 

[Dodo1610]

Deadfire is the most polished and balanced + unique beautiful South Sea setting
DOS 2 is the only one with COOP which makes the game so much more enjoyable + spells environment interactions are really fun
Pathfinder has the most content + made exclusively made for fans of old schools CRPGs mad by fans of those.

 

[JohnSmith24601]

Currently playing PFKM for the first time and played DOS2 and PoE2 only recently as well. So here's my two cents:

DOS2 was the biggest disappointment in the recent years for me. Combat is basically an exercise in cheating better than the AI rather than any actual use of tactics and having to constantly replace equipment with better versions to due equipment itself having levels is nothing but an annoying new level of RPG-Paperwork. Worst instance of MMORPGisation of a single player RPG since obsessive class balancing became a thing. Plot and lore never clicked for me either. Tries humour, but with nothing but more or less evil factions the setting was borderline grimdark.
Best music of the three though.

Yeah hate the itemization too. Makes no sense that items themselves have levels. Like one time I picked up a cool looking mace, only to have it outclassed later by a simple knife simply because it had a higher level...

PoE2 is the current winner for me. I had more fun with it's TB combat than in DOS2 by a lot. Note that I deliberately wrote "more fun" not "is better". I don't really care that it makes dex a dump stat. It's a single player RPG not a MMORPG, I don't care about lack of balance. My wizard main character still wore a robe instead of heavy armour. Because he is a Wizard and that's what he is supposed to equip. No one is forcing you to do immersion breaking minmaxing. One move, one action, per encounter spells, simply but a lot like fantasy XCOM.
The main plot was lacking, but the stuff in between was way more interesting than in DOS2 IMHO. The conference calls with the gods, the chats with the faction leaders, sidequests with plot. Also very pleasantly surprised it wasn't a setting about Noble Savage natives and evil protoNazi Colonialists.

Dex being a dump stat is not good. For me, it means that you actually can't role play very well in this game. Actually the whole stat system is nonsensical to begin with. Like why does might determine spell strength? It's weird that my wizard is more beefy than my frontline tank. And before anyone jumps in and explains that Might is just "inner strength", I would have you know that Might is often used in scripted encounters for physical challenges. Like having my wizard push down a wall (because my tank is too weak to do it). So no, Might actually means physical strength (and magic strength apparently)...Anyways, I don't want to keep ranting about it lol...Just chalk it up to personal preference, that's all.

Gets an extra point for it's inventory: No annoying carry limit. Good sorting options and even a search button.

They still give companions personal inventory...which makes no sense to me. It's actually extra pointless clicking because it often switches to personal inventory automatically when you're looting and you have to manually switch back to shared inventory...

PFKM I'm in chapter two so can't really give a full verdict. So just some postiives and negatives:
+ Really like the plot idea: Instead of a big quest to defeat a villian, that's just phase one and then you at long last get to take over yourself.
- All those classic D&D RPGs came with a big manual. For a reason! The mechanics are hardly ever explained. Someone who's never played a D&D game before and lost their internet just after downloading it would be utterly lost. Also lack of feedback in the combat log. Sometimes my fighters only attack once per turn despite now having a BAB of 6. I'm sure there's a reason for that in the Pathfinder mechanics, but the game never tells me what it is or how to avoid it. Octavia, when launching a scorching ray at an enemy engaged by both Valerie and Amiri sometimes gets a sneak attack bonus, sometimes she doesn't. Game never bothers to tell me what caused it to trigger or caused it to fail triggering.
+ Vastest pool of classes, builds, etc of the three.
- Suffers from "So what am I actually supposed to do?" syndrome. Made worse due to timers ticking in the background, so you don't know if you can afford to just go explore and hope to find something.
- Missiable companions, NPC and the like. I don't care how "realistic" that's supposed to be. It's bad game design.
+ Finally again a game in a "real" High Fantasy world. RPG's have become so obsessed with NOT going "Tolkienesque" in their worldbuilding, that i think we didn't have one that played the trope straight since NWN2. So by now it's basically a refreshing change.

Neutral: I think Kingdom Management could be done well and shouldn't have been absent. But it was poorly implemented.

Actually agree with a lot of the points here. The rules are actually not that bad once you're like 50+ hours into the game. Plus, learning is fun ;P

I miss Baldur's Gate companions...

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG