Pathfinder Pathfinder : Kingmaker VS Wrath of the Righteous. Which one do you prefer?

[luj1]

they are both trash but the first one was better

Wrath seems like it was written by inept zoomers

 

[luj1]

Kingmaker, big time. WotR is so bloated and mindless, it's just tiresome.

WotR is like a younger, more retarded brother of HotU

 

[Faarbaute]

Friends don't let friends play WotR.

 

[Agesilaus]

I'm playing WotR right now and it's genuinely good. Shame on you all for not DM'ing me to tell me that actually this is a good game. It's act 1, I'm going around with spiderwoman, evil healer, lady aristocrat, retard zoomer thief, and the black tank woman. Obviously there are some party members I could do without, but I assume I'll have more options later. I just got killed by a giant minotaur at the end(?) of the big tavern battle, wasting half an hour of my time. The idiot half orc and her army just sat there watching. Unbelievable. She will get her punishment in this life or the next.


Better than kingfinder or whatever

 

[rusty_shackleford]

WotR made it obvious that Kingmaker is good by accident due to budget & time restraints, not intent of the developer.

 

[RunningWolf]

Most fun i had in Owlcat game was Kingmaker with Call of the Wild mod playing Holy Vindicator Oracle.
If were talking about build diversity, then i like mythic feats and abilities, but strongly dislike the mythic paths themselves. Too much shoehorning your character into a role and alignment, too varied in gameplay power regardless of how good/bad your build is. I would MUCH prefer Paizos Mythic Paths.

Writing was mediocre in Kingmaker, but offensively bad in Wrath.

All that said i still enjoy them both more than i do something like DOS2, POE2 or any other recently modern CRPG. I think its purely because DnD 3.5 is this much better than what other studios can shit out. Hopefully BG3 will also be saved by its underlying system.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Shitty crusade minigame > shitty kingdom management minigame
Hellknight and Devil storyfaggotry > no Hellknight (beyond meh side quest) nor Devil storyfaggotry

Praise Cheliax, that is all.

 

[Agesilaus]

Still enjoying Righteous, but wondering if I was too hasty in judging this one. Kingdom sucked because it only had RTwP and broken, modded TBS. Now it has native TBS, possibly the same as Righteous(?), in which case I guess it could be very good. All the same, I hate the kingdom card game mechanics nonsense, whereas the crusader HoMM is okay.

So it comes down to theme I suppose. I'm liking demons so far. I hated mites and spiders. So fuck you Kingdoms.

 

[Haplo]

The modded TBS for Kingmaker was actually very good. Played with it throughout 90% of the game just fine.

But Wrath has mounts, Spirited Charges and Kitsunes with Vulpine Pounce. So a huge plus for Wrath

 

[luj1]

Both the Pathfinder games and the Pillars games are filled with horrendous core systems, insufferable lore dumps and walls of text.

They are utter shite franchises.

 

[NIGERundayoHater]

Kingmaker. Wrath is degenerate with troons, horrible companions (with notable exceptions), retarded voice-acting related to companions and degenerate NPCs - though a few NPCs did pull their - and absolute shit balance. The game just bends over and takes it without ever giving so much as a slap on the wrist in return, and that's on unfair. Shit, Kingmaker gave me a tougher fight on Hard than Wrath ever did on Unfair.

- Kingmaker didn't have degenerate mounted combat and shit like Sohei giving you two full BAB extra attacks and free pounce on top of it.
- Kingmaker didn't have retarded spellbook merging allowing to essentially overpower any and every encounter out there
- Kingmaker didn't have classes that were straightout better than others (at least not that many). Why the hell should I pick Barbarian when there's a Bloodrager?
- Kingmaker didn't give you immortality for two full rounds, allowing you to rotate companions in and out, essentially buying you 12 extra turns should you need it.

 

[Agesilaus]

I just got Regill after what I consider to be a pretty brutal fight. Just endless swarms of gargoyles that focus on killing my main character, plenty of cleric gargoyles buffing everyone and casting some drain life nonsense, and a high level cleric gargoyle who appears and then immediately drains 5~ levels my main character. What the fuck.

Also, I after the battle I found a guy hiding down in some unexplored part of the cave. Yet Regill (who was now commander of his force) didn't say jack shit. I didn't even get the option to execute him for cowardice. Wtf.

Anyway I might give kingmaker another go, this time with TBS combat. But I'm still liking righteous, these demons make for interesting enough opponents. Like the guy above me said, some of the characters are also ok.

 

[The_Mask]

Also, I after the battle I found a guy hiding down in some unexplored part of the cave. Yet Regill (who was now commander of his force) didn't say jack shit. I didn't even get the option to execute him for cowardice. Wtf.

That's an Easter Egg. It's a reference to Solaire from Dark Souls. <3

 

[santino27]

I don't play Dark Souls, so I just assumed it was a designer pointing our that the ostensibly good side (the clerics) really was every bit as useless as Regill and the HKs were saying.

 

[Agesilaus]

Yeah I don't play console games, maybe Wrath of the Righteous is shit

 

[Pink Eye]

maybe Wrath of the Righteous is shit

Lol. You're cute. Don't let the rest of us hamper on your enjoyment of the game. If do indeed like Wrath, all the more power to you.

 

[Cryomancer]

horrible companions

Lich mythic path is good cuz allow you to screw up this horrible companions and horrible NPCs.

About merging spellbook, I was casting tier 8 spells in chapter 2(late ch 2) when I played WoTR...

 

[Haplo]

Yeah I don't play console games, maybe Wrath of the Righteous is shit

Why would you write that? Its a great game. Easily makes it to the top 5 games of this century.

 

[Desiderius]

Only one vote by obvious reasons.

I? I honestly think that except in the class and race variety, Kingmaker > WoTR. My greatest critique towards WoTR is that is too bloated. Even if compared to other high level adventures. Mephistopheles in NWN1:HotU is a enemy which you spend an entire chapter wanting to find his true name to have a tinny chance of victory. In WoTR, he is merely a random enemy in my Azata quest... And is not as if Kingmaker is a low level adventure. You can fight a fey demigod in the game and destroy a spawn of Rovagug, the God of destruction...

Honestly, I wish that OwlCat next Pathfinder Adventure will gonna be Rise of the Runelords which ends around lv 14 and maybe include a NG+ option with the later levels. And is not as if lv 14 is not low level. Adult Red Dragons are CR 14. You can throw hellfire, reduce enemy into dust(Disintegrate) and much more in that lv range. Dark Sun : Wake of the Ravager where you fight a freaking Tarrasque has lv cap = 15 and I defeated two Dark Lords in Ravenloft games at lv 13. Stone Prophet + Strahd possession(importing a save). And only to be clear, I like high level stuff but is pretty hard to do it right. KoTC2 late game fights are one example. I loved that game.

Give me five years and I'll get back to you.

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

Old=good.
New=bad.

The fundamental principle with few exceptions.

This is why Kingmaker is better than Wrath by default. Also Wrath is a game with odd inconsistent pacing with boring terrible areas and an even worse minigame tacked onto a D&D adventure. Too much bloat and too much trash.

Kingmaker though is not innocent of bloat and not only that, pointless and often inconsistent bloat relative to the ruleset. For example Vordekai is a level 9 Wizard in the AP due to millennia in slumber making him lose a good portion of his powers. The reason you can kill him is that he no longer has the power to use his phylactery (minimum level 11 wizard). In the video game? Well he's been buffed up to level 13 as a wizard hence is able to use a phylactery and cannot be killed without finding and destroying it. Yet you can still kill him in spite of never finding his phylactery and destroying it.

 

[Pink Eye]

FriendlyMerchant Do you mean the eye? It's been a while since I last played, however, can't you equip the eye or have it for loot?

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

FriendlyMerchant Do you mean the eye? It's been a while since I last played, however, can't you equip the eye or have it for loot?

The eye is not the phylactery. It's an ancient artifact related to Abaddon, the Oculus of Abaddon, which Vordekai is supposed to use. You can get it if you kill Tristian in the following chapter. If you destroy it, then it's well after Vordekai died.

Also, a Lich has to create their own phylactery. So the oculus could not be it.

The occulus if you took Mervy as your envoy and decide to go after Tristian first following the destruction of Vordekai. The Occulus can be put into a character's item slots and so long as its there, all spells are extended as if they were under the extend metamagic. There is not limit to the extend effect. The other ability is a true seeing 3 times per day with the requirement that you pass a Wisdom check (DC 15) or your character goes insane.

 

[Cryomancer]

There is a huge difference in bloating a boss from lv 9 to 13 and an army of epic level super duper hyperplus army of skyscraper sized demons which you encounter in WoTR. Anyway, if 3E games tends to inflate enemy power, most 2E games tends to deflate. The most iconic example is Ravenloft : Strahd possession. Strahd lacks all powerful spells and abilities which he had in P&P as a 16th level necromancer. In Dark Sun : Shattered Lands, templars where heavily nerfed, so your low level characters can kill them.

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

There is a huge difference in bloating a boss from lv 9 to 13 and an army of epic level super duper hyperplus army of skyscraper sized demons which you encounter in WoTR.

I agree. But in the case of Vordekai, Owlcat needed to actually do the work to make the character consistent with the ruleset, i.e. looking for a phylactery before or after defeating him and if after, then you fight him again if you take too long. Otherwise, just leave him as a level 9 character and design the game to level the characters according to what they're supposed to be at that point.

Owlbears are another aspect of Owlcat arbitrary buffs as the standard Owlbear should have 19 STR where the ones in their games have 28 or 30 STR on normal difficulty. Owlcat did this stuff in Kingmaker in quite a few places. It just got much worse in Wrath.

Anyway, if 3E games tends to inflate enemy power, most 2E games tends to deflate. The most iconic example is Ravenloft : Strahd possession. Strahd lacks all powerful spells and abilities which he had in P&P as a 16th level necromancer. In Dark Sun : Shattered Lands, templars where heavily nerfed, so your low level characters can kill them.

In the case of the older games like ravenloft and dark sun, it seems more reasonable that some things would be missing due to technical limitations within the development time. But it would be a bit more meaningful defeating the enemies if they were represented as they were designed in the ruleset and either provided some kind of escape mechanic if a player came across enemies too strong for them early and/or only put them in in points of the questline where they're appropriate enemies for the pcs to fight.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Owlbears are another aspect of Owlcat arbitrary buffs as the standard Owlbear should have 19 STR where the ones in their games have 28 or 30 STR.

You had to expect this though. An owlbear is just an owlcat on major 'roids.