KickStarter Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Elex]

It's obvious, why would you advance in, for example, plain Third Edition Ranger class if the benefits were measly?

Of the glances I've taken to DnD5 PHB, I've seen that they tend to give almost a new ability each new level, that way you encourage players to stick to the class, in fact multiclassing is difficult to balance, it either sucks or produces significant advantages.

the only interesting multiclass in 5e is the warlock2/sorcerer18

aka the eldrich blast machinegun


also /lv3 fighter can be usefull for the surge.

but generally all the hibrid character are already in the subspecialization.

 

[Luckmann]

Apart from detect magic and skills, are there any spells or character abilities that are usable in dialogue?

So far, I have yet to see any. No frost spells to douse fire in a scripted event, no lay on hands to heal wounded in a conversation, no classes called out in dialogue, or anything like that. Kinda odd, now when you mention it, considering the quality of the other input.

They might've been afraid of favoring certain characters based on class, which is a bit sad. PoE did, extremely so, which was frustrating, but the option of *no* such interactions is definitely the worse choice.

 

[Theldaran]

It's obvious, why would you advance in, for example, plain Third Edition Ranger class if the benefits were measly?

Of the glances I've taken to DnD5 PHB, I've seen that they tend to give almost a new ability each new level, that way you encourage players to stick to the class, in fact multiclassing is difficult to balance, it either sucks or produces significant advantages.

Unless you have some sort of Conan (barbarian/rogue) class fantasy in mind, multi-classing also creates some very strange inconsistent characters.

You kind of had to in 3.5 as it was the only way to keep up with the power curve, even if it felt out of character.

I've got more problems with the gaming balance than with the concept.

There can be characters with really strange abilities. I find that pretty cool.

I don't really know, but multiclass is an invention of ADnD, it didn't exist in original DnD? That would suggest that keeping one single class is the way it's supposed to be.

 

[Urthor]

https://steamspy.com/app/640820 so this gae has 15k peak players on release, is that good or bad? I don't know any of the concurrent player numbers off the top of my head but my impression is that's not bad

It flopped.

Riiiiiiiiiiiight... if that's a flop then what's this?

The Bard's Tale IV: Barrows Deep ( https://steamspy.com/app/566090 )
Peak concurrent players yesterday: 864

Also, Fallout 2 has an overall recent score on Steam of 84% from 45 reviews in the last 30 days.
The Age of the Cuck is upon us!

Looks like the infallible scientific method of measuring peak steam players has determined that gloriously Pathfinder Kingmaker is 15 times as successful as Bard's Tale the case is closed

 

[Background Character]

That simplifies things, I'll keep the pure sorcerer then

 

[Tacgnol]

It's obvious, why would you advance in, for example, plain Third Edition Ranger class if the benefits were measly?

Of the glances I've taken to DnD5 PHB, I've seen that they tend to give almost a new ability each new level, that way you encourage players to stick to the class, in fact multiclassing is difficult to balance, it either sucks or produces significant advantages.

Unless you have some sort of Conan (barbarian/rogue) class fantasy in mind, multi-classing also creates some very strange inconsistent characters.

You kind of had to in 3.5 as it was the only way to keep up with the power curve, even if it felt out of character.

I've got more problems with the gaming balance than with the concept.

There can be characters with really strange abilities. I find that pretty cool.

I have no problem with characters with strange abilities, but it's nice that in PF you can stick to a consistent character concept for 20 levels and aren't forced to multiclass for the sake of power.

(Not that most PF campaigns go to 20 in the first place)

 

[Theldaran]

https://steamspy.com/app/640820 so this gae has 15k peak players on release, is that good or bad? I don't know any of the concurrent player numbers off the top of my head but my impression is that's not bad

It flopped.

Riiiiiiiiiiiight... if that's a flop then what's this?

The Bard's Tale IV: Barrows Deep ( https://steamspy.com/app/566090 )
Peak concurrent players yesterday: 864

Also, Fallout 2 has an overall recent score on Steam of 84% from 45 reviews in the last 30 days.
The Age of the Cuck is upon us!

Looks like the infallible scientific method of measuring peak steam players has determined that gloriously Pathfinder Kingmaker is 15 times as successful as Bard's Tale the case is closed

I'm not really surprised though.

 

[Cael]

I have no problem with characters with strange abilities, but it's nice that in PF you can stick to a consistent character concept for 20 levels and aren't forced to multiclass for the sake of power.

(Not that most PF campaigns go to 20 in the first place)

Someone just described Conan, an iconic fantasy character, as a barbarian/thief, and this mouth breather immediately pipes up with this shit. Typical example of what is wrong with DnD 3.5: Fucking dramaqueens demanding that everyone play it their way or they throw the pacifier out of the cot.

 

[Theldaran]

In fact, for all I know, multiclassing is just a way of providing more character-building options, in the absence of buying further rulebooks which introduce new classes...

 

[Luckmann]

I have no problem with characters with strange abilities, but it's nice that in PF you can stick to a consistent character concept for 20 levels and aren't forced to multiclass for the sake of power.

(Not that most PF campaigns go to 20 in the first place)

Someone just described Conan, an iconic fantasy character, as a barbarian/thief, and this mouth breather immediately pipes up with this shit. Typical example of what is wrong with DnD 3.5: Fucking dramaqueens demanding that everyone play it their way or they throw the pacifier out of the cot.

Wh.. what? I feel like I'm missing something here, or that you quoted the wrong post or something. Just.. what?

 

[Serus]

So guys, to change the subject from all this drama a bit. What do you think, when can we except the Beamdog's Enhanced Edition?

 

[Yosharian]

Conan doesn't strike me as a Barbarian really, let alone a Thief/Rogue. I mean this is only going by the movies, I'm not familiar with any of the other material, but... Just because Arnie sometimes puts on a bit of paint and mostly wears medieval porn star outfits light armor doesn't make him a Barbarian. He never really rages at all, he makes those stupid Arnie sounds but he doesn't actually go into a rage.

He also uses a wide variety of weapons, uses strategy sometimes such as the fight against those guys on horseback, he goes for trips and stuff, he uses shields sometimes.

He strikes me as a typical Fighter more than anything else. Meh, I could be wrong.

 

[Theldaran]

So guys, to change the subject from all this drama a bit. What do you think, when can we except the Beamdog's Enhanced Edition?

Amber Scott will feel right at home adding new text for this game, it seems.

Conan doesn't strike me as a Barbarian really, let alone a Thief/Rogue. I mean this is only going by the movies, I'm not familiar with any of the other material, but... Just because Arnie sometimes puts on a bit of paint and mostly wears medieval porn star outfits light armor doesn't make him a Barbarian. He never really rages at all, he makes those stupid Arnie sounds but he doesn't actually go into a rage.

He also uses a wide variety of weapons, uses strategy sometimes such as the fight against those guys on horseback, he goes for trips and stuff, he uses shields sometimes.

He strikes me as a typical Fighter more than anything else. Meh, I could be wrong.

For all I know Conan had a long adventuring career. He also was a pirate at a time I think. But he's not a barbarian in the DnD concept, he's just from uncivilised lands, a different notion. He doesn't go into berserker (the right term) rage. In fact I think that, like with Elminster, Conan was a man of many trades, and should have a bunch of different DnD classes.

 

[Serus]

Conan doesn't strike me as a Barbarian really, let alone a Thief/Rogue. I mean this is only going by the movies, I'm not familiar with any of the other material, but... Just because Arnie sometimes puts on a bit of paint and mostly wears medieval porn star outfits light armor doesn't make him a Barbarian. He never really rages at all, he makes those stupid Arnie sounds but he doesn't actually go into a rage.

He also uses a wide variety of weapons, uses strategy sometimes such as the fight against those guys on horseback, he goes for trips and stuff, he uses shields sometimes.

He strikes me as a typical Fighter more than anything else. Meh, I could be wrong.

First, go read the books. They're great fun.
Second, Howard's original Conan isn't really that much similar to the Arnie's movies Conan.
Third in Howard short stories, he does "multiclass" a lot. From a "pure" barbarian, to thief, to a pirate, to a mounted warrior (with some archery thrown in), to a chieftain, a leader of infantry, to a commander commanding from the back row until the last moment, to a heavy armour horseman and a king leading his knights' charge into enemy ranks.

 

[Yosharian]

So guys, to change the subject from all this drama a bit. What do you think, when can we except the Beamdog's Enhanced Edition?

Amber Scott will feel right at home adding new text for this game, it seems.

Conan doesn't strike me as a Barbarian really, let alone a Thief/Rogue. I mean this is only going by the movies, I'm not familiar with any of the other material, but... Just because Arnie sometimes puts on a bit of paint and mostly wears medieval porn star outfits light armor doesn't make him a Barbarian. He never really rages at all, he makes those stupid Arnie sounds but he doesn't actually go into a rage.

He also uses a wide variety of weapons, uses strategy sometimes such as the fight against those guys on horseback, he goes for trips and stuff, he uses shields sometimes.

He strikes me as a typical Fighter more than anything else. Meh, I could be wrong.

For all I know Conan had a long adventuring career. He also was a pirate at a time I think. But he's not a barbarian in the DnD concept, he's just from uncivilised lands, a different notion. He doesn't go into berserker (the right term) rage. In fact I think that, like with Elminster, Conan was a man of many trades, and should have a bunch of different DnD classes.

Oh yeah, I meant it purely in the sense of D&D.

Of course using the word in the sense of its actual meaning, he's definitely a barbarian.

 

[Yosharian]

Conan doesn't strike me as a Barbarian really, let alone a Thief/Rogue. I mean this is only going by the movies, I'm not familiar with any of the other material, but... Just because Arnie sometimes puts on a bit of paint and mostly wears medieval porn star outfits light armor doesn't make him a Barbarian. He never really rages at all, he makes those stupid Arnie sounds but he doesn't actually go into a rage.

He also uses a wide variety of weapons, uses strategy sometimes such as the fight against those guys on horseback, he goes for trips and stuff, he uses shields sometimes.

He strikes me as a typical Fighter more than anything else. Meh, I could be wrong.

First, go read the books. They're great fun.
Second, Howard's original Conan isn't really that much similar to the Arnie's movies Conan.
Third in Howard short stories, he does "multiclass" a lot. From a "pure" barbarian, to thief, to a pirate, to a mounted warrior (with some archery thrown in), to a chieftain, a leader of infantry, to a commander commanding from the back row until the last moment, to a heavy armour horseman and a king leading his knights' charge into enemy ranks.

Ok but a Fighter can do all of those things.

In fact, a Fighter is more likely to be able to do all of those things than a Barbarian is, without any need for multiclassing.

 

[Theldaran]

For more information you can "get" the Mongoose Conan d20 game, it's a great source of Conanness and a fine stand-in for 3.5 back on its day.

I think that the Conan NPC is built with quite a mix of classes.

 

[Serus]

Conan doesn't strike me as a Barbarian really, let alone a Thief/Rogue. I mean this is only going by the movies, I'm not familiar with any of the other material, but... Just because Arnie sometimes puts on a bit of paint and mostly wears medieval porn star outfits light armor doesn't make him a Barbarian. He never really rages at all, he makes those stupid Arnie sounds but he doesn't actually go into a rage.

He also uses a wide variety of weapons, uses strategy sometimes such as the fight against those guys on horseback, he goes for trips and stuff, he uses shields sometimes.

He strikes me as a typical Fighter more than anything else. Meh, I could be wrong.

First, go read the books. They're great fun.
Second, Howard's original Conan isn't really that much similar to the Arnie's movies Conan.
Third in Howard short stories, he does "multiclass" a lot. From a "pure" barbarian, to thief, to a pirate, to a mounted warrior (with some archery thrown in), to a chieftain, a leader of infantry, to a commander commanding from the back row until the last moment, to a heavy armour horseman and a king leading his knights' charge into enemy ranks.

Ok but a Fighter can do all of those things.

In fact, a Fighter is more likely to be able to do all of those things than a Barbarian is, without any need for multiclassing.

He doesn't enter rages as in nordic berserker sense of the word (which the "rage" abiliy in DnD is reminiscent of) but he does have rage-like moments in some short stories. Also he is high dexterity and often fights ligtly armored - something a DnD fighter would never do if you really want to sperge and go by DnD mechanics.

 

[Curratum]

Just while we're at it, do go and read the stories, they're some of the finest fantasy around, together with Fritz Leiber's yarns.

 

[Alienman]

In PoE Conan would be a mage.

 

[Theldaran]

Just while we're at it, do go and read the stories, they're some of the finest fantasy around, together with Fritz Leiber's yarns.

But the first movie is also great. Only different.

 

[Cael]

I have no problem with characters with strange abilities, but it's nice that in PF you can stick to a consistent character concept for 20 levels and aren't forced to multiclass for the sake of power.

(Not that most PF campaigns go to 20 in the first place)

Someone just described Conan, an iconic fantasy character, as a barbarian/thief, and this mouth breather immediately pipes up with this shit. Typical example of what is wrong with DnD 3.5: Fucking dramaqueens demanding that everyone play it their way or they throw the pacifier out of the cot.

Wh.. what? I feel like I'm missing something here, or that you quoted the wrong post or something. Just.. what?

You are smarter than that.

The fucktard is crying about being forced to multiclass when that is soomething that is set by the people you play with. I have played games where people are content with playing single class, and games where people were multiclassing out the wazoo. In all cases, people were trying to fulfill a concept. The ability to multiclass and still create a viable character is the core to creating an interesting character.

For example, if you follow Conan's life both in the books and in the movies, he started off as a Barbarian, prone to rages and rash action. He did a bit of thieving and later, when he was defeated by someone (who humiliated him by telling him the reason he lost was because he had no discipline) he became more disciplined and learned to fight that way (i.e., he took Fighter levels). Conan was a barbarian/thief/fighter.

Then, take the (in)famous Drz'zt. He started as a fighter under Zaknafien. He learned stealth and striking from ambush (Rogue) and grew his hunter persona (Barbarian rage). He then trained under Montolio to become a ranger. His official classes are Fighter 10/Rogue 1/Barbarian 1/Ranger 6.

His greatest "rival", Artemis, is a Fighter/Rogue/Assassin.

Elminster himself is a Rogue/Cleric/Wizard/Archmage/Sorcerer, IIRC.

You want to make a facsimile of Captain America, you would start as a Warblade and then go into Bloodstorm Blade (for the ability to throw any weapon and automatic returning weapon).

You want Wolverine, go Razorclaw Shifter Swordsage/Tiger Claw Master/Weretouch Master.

Every single fantasy character is multiclass. To say that multiclass restricts character concepts is a fucking retarded and self-serving statement.

Power levels is based on the table you are with. If you play with powergamers, and you feel that you HAVE to multiclass for power, and you hate powergaming, find another group instead of trying to spoil it for everyone by bitching about powergaming.

 

[Serus]

In PoE Conan would be a mage.

Well, people make fun of the "muscle mage" thing in POE - and rightfully so. But if you want one in sword and sorcery - Kane from Karl Wagner's books is really one. Though he only does mage-y things in some of the stories and not in others.

 

[Urthor]

https://steamspy.com/app/640820 so this gae has 15k peak players on release, is that good or bad? I don't know any of the concurrent player numbers off the top of my head but my impression is that's not bad

It flopped.

Riiiiiiiiiiiight... if that's a flop then what's this?

The Bard's Tale IV: Barrows Deep ( https://steamspy.com/app/566090 )
Peak concurrent players yesterday: 864

Also, Fallout 2 has an overall recent score on Steam of 84% from 45 reviews in the last 30 days.
The Age of the Cuck is upon us!

Looks like the infallible scientific method of measuring peak steam players has determined that gloriously Pathfinder Kingmaker is 15 times as successful as Bard's Tale the case is closed

I'm not really surprised though.

I'm really super surprised, Bard's Tale 4 had like actual marketing, the Russians at Owlcat had literally only a license to an incredibly popular D&D property, I would have easily believed Bard's Tale had the bigger draw in the community and the marketing sold games to folk dumb enough to preorder

 

[Serus]

I have no problem with characters with strange abilities, but it's nice that in PF you can stick to a consistent character concept for 20 levels and aren't forced to multiclass for the sake of power.

(Not that most PF campaigns go to 20 in the first place)

Someone just described Conan, an iconic fantasy character, as a barbarian/thief, and this mouth breather immediately pipes up with this shit. Typical example of what is wrong with DnD 3.5: Fucking dramaqueens demanding that everyone play it their way or they throw the pacifier out of the cot.

Wh.. what? I feel like I'm missing something here, or that you quoted the wrong post or something. Just.. what?

You are smarter than that.

The fucktard is crying about being forced to multiclass when that is soomething that is set by the people you play with. I have played games where people are content with playing single class, and games where people were multiclassing out the wazoo. In all cases, people were trying to fulfill a concept. The ability to multiclass and still create a viable character is the core to creating an interesting character.

For example, if you follow Conan's life both in the books and in the movies, he started off as a Barbarian, prone to rages and rash action. He did a bit of thieving and later, when he was defeated by someone (who humiliated him by telling him the reason he lost was because he had no discipline) he became more disciplined and learned to fight that way (i.e., he took Fighter levels). Conan was a barbarian/thief/fighter.

Then, take the (in)famous Drz'zt. He started as a fighter under Zaknafien. He learned stealth and striking from ambush (Rogue) and grew his hunter persona (Barbarian rage). He then trained under Montolio to become a ranger. His official classes are Fighter 10/Rogue 1/Barbarian 1/Ranger 6.

His greatest "rival", Artemis, is a Fighter/Rogue/Assassin.

Elminster himself is a Rogue/Cleric/Wizard/Archmage/Sorcerer, IIRC.

You want to make a facsimile of Captain America, you would start as a Warblade and then go into Bloodstorm Blade (for the ability to throw any weapon and automatic returning weapon).

You want Wolverine, go Razorclaw Shifter Swordsage/Tiger Claw Master/Weretouch Master.

Every single fantasy character is multiclass. To say that multiclass restricts character concepts is a fucking retarded and self-serving statement.

That's good because literally no one said that multiclassing "restricts" character concepts. So you basically raged over nothing. Very barbarian of you.