Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[HoboForEternity]

wait why is the game's page is reduced to 72? i remember it had 500+ pages?

Spoiler

so that's what melnorme look down there. i thoguht they was a living bag of goldspace credits

 

[Cael]

how weird that shortly after being acquired by microsoft they get awards
really gets that noggin joggin, huh?

Dang. That cartoon style is very familiar. Where have I seen it before?

Of course! Blue Milk Special! Nice to know a fellow reader :D

 

[Luckmann]

loading times seem a lot better since I last played, is it just because I'm on a new save or did they work on it?

Especially not knowing when you last played, there's no way to tell. But they have been working on them and they have improved slightly, but also, you're on a new save, so that'll help.

 

[Luckmann]

I like how certain characters show up from time to time, people you met in the past and helped them or met them, you see them again sometimes. And the choice you made back then is impacting, whether you let someone live or killed them, now they are there and pay you back for letting them live, etc.. It's a nice touch.

I love how the game does this, like it's perfectly normal - just like it should be. Sometimes you meet people, and then you just "randomly" run into them again. I wish the game was better at informing you of who they are, though; I don't have a head for names, and I barely pay attention to the names of important characters, let alone minor quest dude #5, so there has been a few situations where I've been wondering "why is this dude talking to me as if we know eachother?".

The game makes relatively good use of the "important topics the player character should know about" when it comes to locations and events and deities - it really should've done the same to some NPC's.

Spoiler

The references to the guy in Varnhold, who stole from Vordakai, went straight over my head. It wasn't until we met his actual ghost and talked to it in Vordakai's Tomb that I realized it was the same dude that hired you to go to Candlemere. It's especially odd since me having Narthropple with me didn't elicit any commentary, despite him hating the guy.

The same happened to me when I got to the Goblin Fort, and the merchant I met by the bridge was there. There's zero clues to this, but the dialogue assumes you just remember the names of everyone you meet, even if they didn't even introduce themselves in-dialogue.

Nope, many companion quests and others have timers, you just can't see them. Generally if the situation seems urgent, or someone says "let's hurry and go there!", it's timed. Main quests always have a hidden timer and the game will usually warn you when it's coming up, but again, if the situation seems dire, go figure it out ASAP and don't waste time. Events and opportunities are a different thing, they generally expire at the end of the month if you haven't taken them up but sometimes they last another month now, which is a change after the 1.1 patch.

Are you sure that they are actually time-based and not trigger-based? Because everything I've encountered have either been "clearly" (if one bothers or remembers to look) labeled as timed, or it's been trigger-based, so if you happen to go past trigger X, then Y can no longer be accessed, etc. And in most cases, the trigger-based ones can be gamed.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I wish the game was better at informing you of who they are, though;

This is something I really liked about Witcher 3's journal thing. It had a massive entry list of essentially every named character you met that updated throughout the game.

 

[jf8350143]

how weird that shortly after being acquired by microsoft they get awards
really gets that noggin joggin, huh?

It's not like they can give the Best RPG of 2018 award back in June.

Anyway there appears to be another 90m patch, what bugs does it adds to the table?

 

[Luckmann]

Speaking of triggers, here's a (very minor) spoiler that I will not tag as a spoiler because of it's infuriating implications:

When approaching the Varnhold chapter, there will be a quest to find a Lost Brother.
If you do not finish this before the end of the chapter, the quest will fail.

Note that you do not only need to find the lost brother, but you must talk to the brother that asked you to find the lost brother and report that you did. Further, if you've found a letter addressed to his family, found in a tomb, you have to turn that in before the end of the chapter too. The brother is waiting in the Inn, after having given you the quest.

Now, you might think "Hey, it makes a lot more sense if I finish this region before going home again, especially since I'm on an urgent quest." But no.

Why does the quest fail? Why does the quest-giver-brother disappear and leave the inn as you're returning from Varnhold? No idea, nor does the failed quest give any indication as to why it failed. In fact, if you've elected to hide "finished" quests, you might miss it completely, and not notice until you decide to check your finished quest log.

Luckily, I only lost a couple of hours, but man, shit like this pisses me off. It makes no sense whatsoever. At the very least, the quest shouldn't update until I come back to the Inn, and the "failed" quest text should be updated with some information about "It seems the brother left. Weird."

 

[panda]

I prefer to use those 2 AP on Arcane Strike PLUS Perfect Strike increased Crit multiplier if I want to drop someone fast. Getting +7 Accuracy along +5 weapons should be enough to hit most enemies. You can even increase the odds even further with Brilliant Energy (does a lot of what Dimension Strike does, but lasts minutes per level rather then 1 round) and Shatter Defenses. Only the SS can increase the crit multiplier btw.

You can not use brilliant energy until level 12. Until then good luck "trying to drop someone fast" with a 3/4 BAB.

Only the SS can increase the crit multiplier btw

 

[rusty_shackleford]

All these late game builds with brilliant energy are proving a point that this is all theorycrafting. I am more interested in practical builds that are good al *all* levels. Not after you get some amazing class feature that makes you unbeatable when practically everyone in the party is unbeatable because the best spells are unlocked or best equipment is available,

bow fighter is good at level 1 and gets better as you play

 

[Haplo]

other maguses. Oh and Spell Recall, but an Eldiritch Scion is missing that as well.

Yes, he is, Your point being? Scion gets bloodlines to compensate for that and they are much stronger.

No, they are not. But I don't think we can agree here.
SS on the other hand gets far superior AC and a bunch of nice feats, including crit feats.

I prefer to use those 2 AP on Arcane Strike PLUS Perfect Strike increased Crit multiplier if I want to drop someone fast. Getting +7 Accuracy along +5 weapons should be enough to hit most enemies. You can even increase the odds even further with Brilliant Energy (does a lot of what Dimension Strike does, but lasts minutes per level rather then 1 round) and Shatter Defenses. Only the SS can increase the crit multiplier btw.

You can not use brilliant energy until level 12. Until then good luck "trying to drop someone fast" with a 3/4 BAB.

Its not like you could use it sooner anyway. Arcane Strike with +5-7 AB and at level 9 Shatter Defenses should be enough. You can also pick Wand Wielder and use a wand of True Strike with Spell Combat. Damage wise there's maximized (early rod) Shocking Grasp and, if you're lucky, you may crit. In this case a SS will do more damage. Even better if you're lucky to land a Frigid Touch crit, as then the enemy will be staggered for a minute... Not a problem to drop someone fast so far. Including an Undead Cyclops at level 6.

As a magus you should probably focus on weapons with somewhat wide crit range, and if you want to do spell combat, you need a one-handed weapon, so its not like the list is very long. Basically choose between a scimitar, dueling blade, bastard sword, rapier, estoc or falcata. I'd recommend one of the first 3, rapiers would be slightly inferior damage-wise, estocs and falcatas have sucky availability. Many scimitars (and only scimitars) have the Mage Blade property, which is very nice for maguses (a temporary +5 15-20/x2 weapon at level 6? Yes, please). Oh, the Sai is also a solid option for a sword saint with a monk dip. Up to 4 bonus attacks at max AB -2 with Flurry, Spell Combat and the unique sai with Greater Speed? Yes, that does sound pretty neat.

You are still stuck on spell combat, and that is a trap. I use it *only* against boss encounters and that too when they are prone. 99% of the time I ignore it. It is actually quite annoyingly useless outside of boss encountes.

That's because you can't tank. So movement is a bigger issue for you. With a Sword Saint you can typically run into the middle of enemy pack and then you can use full round actions for Spell Combat.

Actually as a Sword Saint you get lots of free great feats: Exotic Proficiency, Weapon Focus, boosting Initiative with Int (better then Improved Initiative), Increasing number of AoOs with Int (simiar to Combat Reflexes), confirming Crits with Int (better then Critical Focus). Also you get to add Int to AC and, eventually, also to damage vs flat-footed enemies. You even qualify for Greater Weapon Specialization.

Sword Saint is also the best magus tank, by far. Less spellcasting capacity, far more martial prowess. A more then fair trade IMO. Definately NOT a trap.

You keep repeating the same point. All of these are pretty much pointless things. The damage you add is very low with all of these. To tank you have Valerie anyway. I would rather just stand behind her with an enlarged reach weapon and swing away and not care about AC at all. That has a huge advantage over having a huge AC and not being able to land a hit.

Pointless? So you rather have 2 characters to do the job of 1? A not-so-great tank, by the way. Her AC is lower then a SS, she has no Mirror Image and her Will save.... well she spends a lot of time disabled in my games.

 

[Haplo]

Its not like you could use it sooner anyway. Arcane Strike with +5-7 AB and at level 9 Shatter Defenses should be enough. You can also pick Wand Wielder and use a wand of True Strike with Spell Combat. Damage wise there's maximized (early rod) Shocking Grasp and, if you're lucky, you may crit. In this case a SS will do more damage. Even better if you're lucky to land a Frigid Touch crit, as then the enemy will be staggered for a minute... Not a problem to drop someone fast so far. Including an Undead Cyclops at level 6.

Something you can do with any magus. SS has nothing again. A str Scion with a reach weapon + size expansion is simply better at this. Just stagger them with frigid touch without causing an AoO by not using spell combat. There done. And without risk.

You mentioned trouble hitting without Dimension Strike, which is just not true on a well built character. And yes, you can use spellstrike to Frigid touch with a reach weapon. But if you were using Spell combat, you could also get another attack that round (or 2 with haste... up to 4 at 11 BAB with Haste).

Defensive Casting has a static DC (15?), so after the early levels you never fail it.

That's because you can't tank. So movement is a bigger issue for you. With a Sword Saint you can typically run into the middle of enemy pack and then you can use full round actions for Spell Combat.

Oof. You are dense aren't you? Why tank when you don't have to get into melee range 90% of time? Use a reach weapon. Hide behind Valerie. It's not even a tactic that is hard or something to pull of.

And waste half of a magus' potential? No, thanks.

Sword Saint is also the best magus tank, by far. Less spellcasting capacity, far more martial prowess. A more then fair trade IMO. Definately NOT a trap.

Err, you keep saying this. So what? What good is a magus tank when all maguses get Mirror image?? The best part about maguses is that *even* when then are hit they are not hurt. They don't need to invest in AC. And as I said the best strategy is not being in the risk zone itself.

I assure you that with a good AC, when enemies can only hit you on 20, a Mirror Image will last minimum 10 times longer... Plus with good AC you only really need it for bosses and some nastiest enemies (maybe also wolves/wargs, who could trip you on 20).

Pointless? So you rather have 2 characters to do the job of 1? A not-so-great tank, by the way. Her AC is lower then a SS, she has no Mirror Image and her Will save.... well she spends a lot of time disabled in my games.

What the hell are you talking about? It is you who has two characters doing the job of one. You and Valerie tanking. Would it not be easier if Valerie alone tanks?

No, the easier solution is to leave Valerie at home and tank for the whole party. Valerie's main role is Dazzling Display. Plus a little tanking duty when buffs run out (which will happen less and less). But soon Jaethal will take over as support/offtank/flanker.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

A guy wearing heavy armour and boots that give 10 feet enhance can't tank?

touch attacks

heavy armor is absolutely worthless
strength in general is pretty bad

 

[panda]

A guy wearing heavy armour and boots that give 10 feet enhance can't tank?

touch attacks

heavy armor is absolutely worthless
strength in general is pretty bad

That happens at level 15. Not until then.

And you get heavy armor at what, lvl 13?

All these late game builds with brilliant energy are proving a point that this is all theorycrafting.

 

[Luckmann]

Anyway there appears to be another 90m patch, what bugs does it adds to the table?

It seems to have broken pet inventory functionality.



Edit: But the things I equipped him with before the patch hit still seems to be equipped, though.

 

[Elex]

chapter 6-7 will become better and better with more guide and how to do build party and chesee stuff.

people already solo the game at unfair.

 

[Haplo]

You mentioned trouble hitting without Dimension Strike,

Where exactly?

Well, it was rather implied, but here:

And it postpones the most useful arcana by 3 levels. .

You can not use brilliant energy until level 12. Until then good luck "trying to drop someone fast" with a 3/4 BAB.

And waste half of a magus' potential? No, thanks.

Err? Spell combat is magus' half the potential?

About half of what makes a Magus unique. Otherwise an EK is probably better.

No, the easier solution is to leave Valerie at home and tank for the whole party. Valerie's main role is Dazzling Display. But soon Jaethal will take over.

...

...cause I want someone with high Initimidation score to scare the enemies for easy flat-footed status and lower saves/AB. All melee characters in my parties get Shatter Defences and benefit. Also Jaethal is good skill and spell support. Can do decent damage with the banes and Judgements too. Is a much more versatile character then Valerie, who is only a tank and not very good at it (low Will, medium AC, medium-to-bad touch AC).

 

[Haplo]

A guy wearing heavy armour and boots that give 10 feet enhance can't tank?

touch attacks

heavy armor is absolutely worthless
strength in general is pretty bad

I actually think that a Strenght Combat Maneuver build can do pretty well. But not acting in tank capacity and not one who should keep his offhand free if he wants to utilize the class traits.

 

[Cael]

Defensive Casting has a static DC (15?), so after the early levels you never fail it.

15+spell level, unless Owlcat bollocks'd it up, which is well within the realms of possibility, even probability.

 

[Haplo]

Defensive Casting has a static DC (15?), so after the early levels you never fail it.

15+spell level, unless Owlcat bollocks'd it up, which is well within the realms of possibility, even probability.

Thanks. Anyway, as you're mostly casting low-level stuff and get bonuses from your casting stat and magus feats, this is progressively a lesser concern as you gain levels.
Not that with a good AC and Mirror Image it is a huge concern before.

 

[Cael]

Defensive Casting has a static DC (15?), so after the early levels you never fail it.

15+spell level, unless Owlcat bollocks'd it up, which is well within the realms of possibility, even probability.

Thanks. Anyway, as you're mostly casting low-level stuff and get bonuses from your casting stat and magus feats, this is progressively a lesser concern as you gain levels.
Not that with a good AC and Mirror Image it is a huge concern before.

That is the problem. Offensive casters really shouldn't have a good AC, period. They should always be vulnerable to getting hit. Being relatively safe from getting whacked while casting spells compounded the linear fighter, quadratic wizards problem that DnD always had.

Clerics used to get a free pass because they were healbots with a side of melee. They need the AC to survive as it was always envisioned that they are to be on the frontlines. Most of their spells had a range of <6. 3.x basically threw that out the window as well, but did not take away their ability to wear armour and free spellcasting in armour, creating the fabled CoDzilla.

 

[ArchAngel]

Speaking of triggers, here's a (very minor) spoiler that I will not tag as a spoiler because of it's infuriating implications:

When approaching the Varnhold chapter, there will be a quest to find a Lost Brother.
If you do not finish this before the end of the chapter, the quest will fail.

Note that you do not only need to find the lost brother, but you must talk to the brother that asked you to find the lost brother and report that you did. Further, if you've found a letter addressed to his family, found in a tomb, you have to turn that in before the end of the chapter too. The brother is waiting in the Inn, after having given you the quest.

Now, you might think "Hey, it makes a lot more sense if I finish this region before going home again, especially since I'm on an urgent quest." But no.

Why does the quest fail? Why does the quest-giver-brother disappear and leave the inn as you're returning from Varnhold? No idea, nor does the failed quest give any indication as to why it failed. In fact, if you've elected to hide "finished" quests, you might miss it completely, and not notice until you decide to check your finished quest log.

Luckily, I only lost a couple of hours, but man, shit like this pisses me off. It makes no sense whatsoever. At the very least, the quest shouldn't update until I come back to the Inn, and the "failed" quest text should be updated with some information about "It seems the brother left. Weird."

For me it failed differently. I did it while doing Varnhold chapter and when I came back to capital I didn't know I had to talk to brother at the Inn. So I just went back to my throne room where the brother came into to tell me he is done with waiting and he is going home. Kind of hilarious that you cannot tell him at that moment :D

 

[Luckmann]

Speaking of triggers, here's a (very minor) spoiler that I will not tag as a spoiler because of it's infuriating implications:

When approaching the Varnhold chapter, there will be a quest to find a Lost Brother.
If you do not finish this before the end of the chapter, the quest will fail.

Note that you do not only need to find the lost brother, but you must talk to the brother that asked you to find the lost brother and report that you did. Further, if you've found a letter addressed to his family, found in a tomb, you have to turn that in before the end of the chapter too. The brother is waiting in the Inn, after having given you the quest.

Now, you might think "Hey, it makes a lot more sense if I finish this region before going home again, especially since I'm on an urgent quest." But no.

Why does the quest fail? Why does the quest-giver-brother disappear and leave the inn as you're returning from Varnhold? No idea, nor does the failed quest give any indication as to why it failed. In fact, if you've elected to hide "finished" quests, you might miss it completely, and not notice until you decide to check your finished quest log.

Luckily, I only lost a couple of hours, but man, shit like this pisses me off. It makes no sense whatsoever. At the very least, the quest shouldn't update until I come back to the Inn, and the "failed" quest text should be updated with some information about "It seems the brother left. Weird."

For me it failed differently. I did it while doing Varnhold chapter and when I came back to capital I didn't know I had to talk to brother at the Inn. So I just went back to my throne room where the brother came into to tell me he is done with waiting and he is going home. Kind of hilarious that you cannot tell him at that moment :D

Well at least he told you. But yeah, I had completely forgotten about him too. He really should never simply disappear, and should always come to the throne room, even if it means waiting longer, or after the Varnhold quest have been resolved, and at that point you should be able to tell him.

 

[Luckmann]

Ḩ̵ͦͮͦ̾ͥ̃͊͌͊ͫ̌̍̑̃ͤ͏̷̱̱͉̖Ẻ̘͖̞̮̖̪̺̙̗̲̼̙̹̦̮̉̆ͮ͐̈̀́͜ͅ ̨̨̛̲͖͙͎̹͔̖͙͓̾̉ͧ̽ͫ̂ͬ̆̏̐͞C̤̼̻̠̭̻͔ͥͫ̒͊͛̏͠Ơ͚͓̹̟̟̣͚͍͖͙̖̗̪͖̪ͥ͑͗ͥͩ̏̎̓̔̾̿̕M̟̣͇͉̻̘̲̟̬͉͓͈̭̟͖͙̅ͬ̓̿͑͗ͣͯ̆̽͂̒̚͜͞E̸̴̡̤͈̣̠̟̥ͯ̑ͮ͊̀̒̑͗́̆̓ͥ̎͋̎̚Š̶̷͐̅ͨ̅҉̠̪̫̦̹̤̙͎̙̠̣̰̬̲̼̣ͅ

 

[ga♥]

Speaking of triggers, here's a (very minor) spoiler that I will not tag as a spoiler because of it's infuriating implications:

When approaching the Varnhold chapter, there will be a quest to find a Lost Brother.
If you do not finish this before the end of the chapter, the quest will fail.

Note that you do not only need to find the lost brother, but you must talk to the brother that asked you to find the lost brother and report that you did. Further, if you've found a letter addressed to his family, found in a tomb, you have to turn that in before the end of the chapter too. The brother is waiting in the Inn, after having given you the quest.

Now, you might think "Hey, it makes a lot more sense if I finish this region before going home again, especially since I'm on an urgent quest." But no.

Why does the quest fail? Why does the quest-giver-brother disappear and leave the inn as you're returning from Varnhold? No idea, nor does the failed quest give any indication as to why it failed. In fact, if you've elected to hide "finished" quests, you might miss it completely, and not notice until you decide to check your finished quest log.

Luckily, I only lost a couple of hours, but man, shit like this pisses me off. It makes no sense whatsoever. At the very least, the quest shouldn't update until I come back to the Inn, and the "failed" quest text should be updated with some information about "It seems the brother left. Weird."

You can avoid all of this if after coming back from defeating vordekai you don't visit the throne room but go straight for the tavern.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

For more improvements to the game, I also think that taking a daemonic boon should impact your alignment greatly, or maybe have some alternate effect where it starts to turn you slightly more evil or something. I've picked up Lamashtu's Boon and a Daemonic Blessing and I'm still Neutral Good, which seems a bit odd considering the things I did to get those boons. It would be cool if when you get a certain boon or blessing that the deity or herald of the deity visits you in a dream or something, or just shows up demanding something evil, forcing your hand or just talking to you in some way. The more reactivity with those sorts of things would be a great improvement as well, as not many RPGs have that kind of reactivity with your actual skills or blessings you get from deities, or in this case, daemons.