Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Average Manatee]

So, basically the same trick as doubling up pet levels I mentioned previously. Sorcerers are already a level behind in spell progression compared to wizards though so it's a bit iffy. I don't think its that good of a deal for a pure caster, you're just constantly behind in spells per day and spells known, and while bloodlines will give you spells you'd rather just have more spells that you can choose for yourself most of the time. Maybe adding Arcane bloodline to Fey sorcerers would be a marginal improvement if you are DC-focused.

Where it does quite interesting useful is as Eld Scion 1/Sorcerer X/Dragon Disciple 4, or the other way around as Eld Scion X/Sorcerer 1/DD 4. You can combine Abyssal bloodline's +6 strength inherent with DD's +4 Strength to make what should be eventually a pretty good melee character, especially with Transformation. I'm assuming that DD would boost both bloodlines though, if not then its not that great. You're primarily melee-focused so being a bit more behind on casting doesn't matter as much.

EDIT: Wait, you said you'd have to take one of the sorc subclasses. That'd be... problematic to work around. Not sure what the exact restrictions are on taking those before or after DD. And rules out Abyssal/Dragon. I guess Abyssal Eld Scion 1/Sylvan Sorcerer might be alright though, you lose spell casting progression but if you're trying to melee you're actually ahead on BAB and from the strength bonus. Still total meme build, you're better off just taking an actual melee class with pets, but better than Sorcerer/DD attempting to melee.

 

[EdgyRightWinger]

A Fey Sorc getting an extra bloodline sounds pretty fun, especially one of the dragon bloodlines, as Fey Sorcs are pretty OP on their own as is.

I think this shows how OP the pet is that it's a reasonable tradeoff for a normal sorc to fall another level behind on everything just to pick up the leopard.

But you're probably worse than a standard Sylvan sorc, either way.

EDIT: Wait, you said you'd have to take one of the sorc subclasses. That'd be... problematic to work around. Not sure what the exact restrictions are on taking those before or after DD. And rules out Abyssal/Dragon. I guess Abyssal Eld Scion 1/Sylvan Sorcerer might be alright though, you lose spell casting progression but if you're trying to melee you're actually ahead on BAB and from the strength bonus. Still total meme build, you're better off just taking an actual melee class with pets, but better than Sorcerer/DD attempting to melee.

DD has a strict requirement that you don't have any levels in the three Sorc archetypes. So I don't see a way to make it work with this bug, because you wouldn't switch to Sorc until level 10.

 

[Cael]

A Fey Sorc getting an extra bloodline sounds pretty fun, especially one of the dragon bloodlines, as Fey Sorcs are pretty OP on their own as is.

I think this shows how OP the pet is that it's a reasonable tradeoff for a normal sorc to fall another level behind on everything just to pick up the leopard.

But you're probably worse than a standard Sylvan sorc, either way.

Extra AC, feats, spells known and abilitites for a Sylvan Sorc build for 1 level of animal companion and spell casting (offset by extra spells known).

 

[Average Manatee]

Extra AC, feats, spells known and abilitites for a Sylvan Sorc build for 1 level of animal companion and spell casting (offset by extra spells known).

Do you get the extra feats from a 2nd bloodline? That sounds like the kind of thing that wouldn't work, since its the sorcerer class that gets the feat and the bloodline just enables the options from which you get to pick.

I feel like the spells you get from an extra bloodline are always going to be at best equal and usually worse than just leveling up quicker and selecting new spells sooner. Bloodlines tend to be ~50-70% crap spells, or spells you can easily cover with someone else in the group. Sage sorcerer would offset that spells known gap though but then you've got no pet.

AC is generally pretty useless for a sorcerer who gets more survivability from mirror image and tends to be hit >60% of the time anyway by anything deadly by the midgame. Unless you're doing some meme like Scaled Fist 1 too, and at that point you're barely even a caster.

I dunno. It's an interesting "trick" but doesn't seem like its drastically OP. Boosting one specific late game nuke spell with dragon bloodline is alright but seems easily overrated. Dragon spells and feats are pretty lackluster unless you're trying to melee.

A Fey Sorc getting an extra bloodline sounds pretty fun, especially one of the dragon bloodlines, as Fey Sorcs are pretty OP on their own as is.

I think this shows how OP the pet is that it's a reasonable tradeoff for a normal sorc to fall another level behind on everything just to pick up the leopard.

But you're probably worse than a standard Sylvan sorc, either way.

Yeah pets being brokenly powerful is kind of a constant. Almost anything that gets a pet is better than something similar that doesn't.

EDIT: Wait, you said you'd have to take one of the sorc subclasses. That'd be... problematic to work around. Not sure what the exact restrictions are on taking those before or after DD. And rules out Abyssal/Dragon. I guess Abyssal Eld Scion 1/Sylvan Sorcerer might be alright though, you lose spell casting progression but if you're trying to melee you're actually ahead on BAB and from the strength bonus. Still total meme build, you're better off just taking an actual melee class with pets, but better than Sorcerer/DD attempting to melee.

DD has a strict requirement that you don't have any levels in the three Sorc archetypes. So I don't see a way to make it work with this bug, because you wouldn't switch to Sorc until level 10.

Yeah, rather than playing as a sorcerer you'd be playing as an ES x/DD 4 melee-focused character that takes 1 level of sorcerer for a free bloodline. It'd be good if not for the fact that the bloodline abilities of all the sorcerer subclasses are pretty meh. Also not sure how it'd work with you getting spells from bloodlines while your Sorcerer level is 1 and your ES level is potentially unable to cast them, I'll try that out.

EDIT: Seems you just don't get them.

 

[Cael]

Extra AC, feats, spells known and abilitites for a Sylvan Sorc build for 1 level of animal companion and spell casting (offset by extra spells known).

Do you get the extra feats from a 2nd bloodline? That sounds like the kind of thing that wouldn't work, since its the sorcerer class that gets the feat and the bloodline just enables the options from which you get to pick.

I feel like the spells you get from an extra bloodline are always going to be at best equal and usually worse than just leveling up quicker and selecting new spells sooner. Bloodlines tend to be ~50-70% crap spells, or spells you can easily cover with someone else in the group. Sage sorcerer would offset that spells known gap though but then you've got no pet.

AC is generally pretty useless for a sorcerer who gets more survivability from mirror image and tends to be hit >60% of the time anyway by anything deadly by the midgame. Unless you're doing some meme like Scaled Fist 1 too, and at that point you're barely even a caster.

I dunno. It's an interesting "trick" but doesn't seem like its drastically OP. Boosting one specific late game nuke spell with dragon bloodline is alright but seems easily overrated. Dragon spells and feats are pretty lackluster unless you're trying to melee.

Getting a free Mage Armour allows you to choose something else instead. To be fair, I have not tried it or messed around with it, so my thoughts are purely theoretical. Nor am I going to reinstall and fire up such a shit game ever again just to test it. I'd rather be playing another Gold Box series run.

 

[EdgyRightWinger]

Maybe adding Arcane bloodline to Fey sorcerers would be a marginal improvement if you are DC-focused.

Unfortunately, the +2 DC from arcane bloodline comes at character level 16. That's a long time to wait for the payoff of +6 DC (counting Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus) to Enchantment spells.

Do you get the extra feats from a 2nd bloodline? That sounds like the kind of thing that wouldn't work, since its the sorcerer class that gets the feat and the bloodline just enables the options from which you get to pick.

Excetly correct. I've tested this. You get the spells known and you get the special abilities of the bloodline. Having a wider feat pool to pick from is nice I guess.

Yeah, rather than playing as a sorcerer you'd be playing as an ES x/DD 4 melee-focused character that takes 1 level of sorcerer for a free bloodline. It'd be good if not for the fact that the bloodline abilities of all the sorcerer subclasses are pretty meh. Also not sure how it'd work with you getting spells from bloodlines while your Sorcerer level is 1 and your ES level is potentially unable to cast them, I'll try that out.

EDIT: Seems you just don't get them.

My testing was the same: switching back to ES only advances the ES bloodline.

 

[Erebus]

Currently replaying Chapter 5.

I like its scenario, but I wish that the intrigue stuff had been much more developed. The part in the city of Pitax feels especially rushed : you only get to visit three small districts, and you obtain allies very easily but they barely even matter because they only help you during a single fight (after which you're on your own as usual).

From what I remember of the Pathfinder adventure path, many of the changes implemented by the game are for the best, but in this specific case, I think that the adventure path had the right idea. At least half of this chapter should be set in the city of Pitax, and have the PC focus on undermining Irovetti and gathering allies in order to overthrow him.

EDIT : I mean, seriously, I convinced the captain of the Pitaxian guard to turn against his king just with a single Diplomacy check !

 

[Delterius]

EDIT : I mean, seriously, I convinced the captain of the Pitaxian guard to turn against his king just with a single Diplomacy check !

you just handed him a pepsi and the guard captain remembered that the entire contingent is 5 months behind on their wages

 

[razvedchiki]

irovettis hold to power is shaky, he clearly doesnt inspire loyalty nor has he tied his fortunes with the big pitax players.

 

[Delterius]

irovettis hold to power is shaky, he clearly doesnt inspire loyalty nor has he tied his fortunes with the big pitax players.

In all seriousness the War of the River Kings chapter is genuinely good writing. It is the one chapter where Kingdom Management and everything comes together. Irovetti knows the real game, he knows about the real history of the Stolen Lands, and he's the first person to try and come out on top.

With an eye on the powers that be, he understands neither your kingdom nor Pitax are military powers. Neither of you can march through the swamplands with an army. Your kingdom has allies it's true, but it's new and reeling from several crises. So he wages war through subterfuge. He sends assassins, monsters, propaganda, and relief to your population and, given enough time, Irovetti's plan can actually succeed. He can force your people to welcome liberation. He's turned some of the problems you've faced into weapons, which is pretty cool. His only weakpoint is his arrogance.

Irovetti could have bunkered down and waited for your kingdom to fail. Forcing you to infiltrate Pitax would, at least, have been an obstacle on your path. But Irovetti can't just win. He's the tackiest person in the world. The bard with the worst taste in all of Avistan. He wants to win so hard that you give up the crown to him. His final dialogue with you is telling. As far as Irovetti is concerned the world is a tale and he's the protagonist. What's more then befitting than a Battle Royale against you, the second rate rival?

Irovetti is such a fun villain. The performance, the portrait, the fact that his entire regime collapses because he's a shitty king with a mercenary army. Made the whole thing into my favorite chapter.

 

[Erebus]

irovettis hold to power is shaky, he clearly doesnt inspire loyalty nor has he tied his fortunes with the big pitax players.

Of course, there are many reasons why Pitaxians might want to turn against him, and that's for the best. But it's not enjoyable for the player when convincing people to switch side is so quick and so easy (I'm currently playing a bard with very high Persuasion, which makes it even easier). Making more interactions and minor quests necessary in order to gain their support would have made the whole thing more satisfying.

Irovetti is such a fun villain. The performance, the portrait, the fact that his entire regime collapses because he's a shitty king with a mercenary army. Made the whole thing into my favorite chapter.

Irovetti is genuinely my favorite villain in the entire game. That's why I find it frustrating that it takes so little effort to put him on the defensive, hiding inside his own castle after losing the support of everyone but his bodyguards.

 

[Delterius]

Irovetti is genuinely my favorite villain in the entire game. That's why I find it frustrating that it takes so little effort to put him on the defensive, hiding inside his own castle after losing the support of everyone but his bodyguards.

I wouldn't be opposed to a beefing up of chapter 4, I'll say.

 

[Erebus]

I wouldn't be opposed to a beefing up of chapter 4, I'll say.

That's also true ; the barbarian invasion is too easily dealt with.

The one chapter in the game that's really too long is the last one.

 

[Delterius]

That's also true ; the barbarian invasion is too easily dealt with.

oh fuck i meant five indeed the barbarian invasion is too easily dealt with! and so is irovetti.

 

[Desiderius]

Only downside of ch 5 is the faceroll and the unfinished KM. The capstone buildings are superfluous unless you've really borked your KM up to that point.

Irovetti looks like Don Draper. Watching the Richard Jewell movie couldn't stop thinking of the heel FBI agent as Irovetti.

 

[Agesilaus]

I survived the Season of Bloom and completed Varnhold's Lot, I win now right?

 

[Chippy]

So I admit I have to upgrade my whole PC, but thought I'd give this game another go and maybe complete it this time. And I kinda remember why I left it so long - unless I'm mistaken, it's still got a memory leak?.

Everything is silky smooth, but its got this irritating pause when hotkeying party members with the keyboard after a few hours. Starts with my main character, then gets worse for the rest.

Thought I'd upgrade from 2GB to a 8GB graphics card to start with (3.2GHZ CPU, 16GB Ram, SSD) but is this a Unity problem? This old thread seems to think so:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder...anced_edition_has_brought_back_the_lag_issue/

Not much point in splashing out on a £200 video card if it's still screwed because of Unity.

Thanks for any replies.

 

[LannTheStupid]

There is almost no way a hardware upgrade would improve Kingmaker. Barring extreme cases: both the game and the saves are on HDD, Windows has so little RAM it has to swap all the time to an HDD, video RAM is too small even for Kingmaker resources, and so on.

The only upgrade you can do is get the source code and remaster it for Unreal Engine 5. However, no one can do that because Owlcat Games left the rights to the game with their old boss and publisher, and now it is either legally prohibited or not profitable to work on Kingmaker. Thus, nothing is being done to it, and nothing will be done to it in the foreseeable future.

 

[Average Manatee]

I didn't have problems with Kingmaker except in the main city, which was absolute ass in terms of loading times. But I doubt its because of your graphics card that it would be slowing down like that, unless its just a general FPS problem (which should be apparent immediately, not need hours of play to notice).

 

[EdgyRightWinger]

Everything is silky smooth, but its got this irritating pause when hotkeying party members with the keyboard after a few hours.

I get this too, except it's immediate, not after a few hours. This is with a RTX 3080 with 12GB of video RAM. Processor is Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8700K CPU @ 3.70GHz and 32GB of DDR4 RAM

I've stopped using the character hotkeys, except the entire party key.

I also have this weird bug across all save games where the item sort dropdown no longer shows which sort is active, except when I click on it.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Here is my non-edgy suggestion: remove all the mods and either recheck the files (if on Steam) or uninstall the game and install it again if on GOG. Notice that there will be no more patches for Kingmaker. At least, as far as it can reasonably be projected.

 

[Chippy]

Everything is silky smooth, but its got this irritating pause when hotkeying party members with the keyboard after a few hours.

I get this too, except it's immediate, not after a few hours. This is with a RTX 3080 with 12GB of video RAM. Processor is Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8700K CPU @ 3.70GHz and 32GB of DDR4 RAM

I've stopped using the character hotkeys, except the entire party key.

I also have this weird bug across all save games where the item sort dropdown no longer shows which sort is active, except when I click on it.

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Actually I was a bit tired when I posted this, and have to admit it's exactly as you describe. So in comparison to your PC, mine is a potato. I'll mention if I get the dropdown problem.

But having done more testing today, it seems to be a mod problem with the Multiple Classes mod. So I'm assuming the 'access time' if you like that the game needs to access characters with multiple classes and data?.

I tested it with only x1 class and the hotkeys are fine at the start of the game. But use that mod with x4 classes or so, and you get a pause with the hotkeys. But no pause at all with the cursor.

Fucking irritating.

 

[EdgyRightWinger]

uninstall the game and install it again if on GOG

I already tried this for the hotkey issue. Didn't make a difference. I experienced this immediately when I installed the game, no mods.

For the dropdown issue, it's not worth the effort. Shame GOG doesn't have a proper recheck feature.

 

[Chippy]

uninstall the game and install it again if on GOG

I already tried this for the hotkey issue. Didn't make a difference. I experienced this immediately when I installed the game, no mods.

For the dropdown issue, it's not worth the effort. Shame GOG doesn't have a proper recheck feature.

Yeah, I might have a potato PC by today's standards, but I did play this game quite a bit a few years ago and I never would have played it with this lag. I'm getting it for all characters now despite my earlier post. So this is either a Unity bug or a game bug.

So on the shelf it goes forever more. I might try it again when I get a new PC, but I wont be spending £50 on WOTR in a sale or otherwise if this is the type of crap modern games give us. It's completely unplayable for me like this.

 

[Agesilaus]

I killed the barbarian and am returning to my capital for the coronation. This game is over soon, right? I'm not even mad, I just don't want anymore level draining spectre trashmobs