Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[~*´¨¯¨`*·~-.¸-AIN'T]

Dwarf fighter/grenadiers work or its better to go full alchemist?

I feel like it doesn't make much sense to multiclass with a grenadier. Your bombs' damage is directly derived from your alchemist level, and the things higher levels of alchemist unlock are all really good. If you take the fighter levels early you are delaying the point you get fast bombs, so the BAB increase doesn't lead to more bombs per round. If you take them in the middle you're messing with the biggest power spike for alchemist (fast bombs -> force bombs -> greater mutagen/cognatogen). If you take them after that you're probably forgoing grand mutagen/cognatogen given the fact most people are ending the game around level 16. Plus losing extract (spell) progression, it doesn't seem worth it. You don't really need the extra feats, and your BAB will be fine for ranged touch attacks as a full grenadier.

If you want to do an alchemist multiclass, roll a vivi.

 

[Cael]

arcane trickster can perform multiple simultaneous sneak attacks.
and also ignore many DR.

You mean in an AoE with the lvl 10 skill?

Surprise spell is the capstone and yes, with it *every* damage spell is Sneaked. But it comes too late.

So how do you get multiple sneak attacks per round on one target, like Serus suggests?

Level 2 scorching ray and later helfire ray. No save.

Isn't this a bug, if it triggers multiple sneak attacks? Google says this is incorrect per PnP (Cael) , but it might make AT attractive.

Will try it when Octavia levels up.

It is a bug. Owlcat fucked it up.

 

[Cael]

I given up on Regongar and Magus in general. Crap class or crap implementation. I replaced him with Nok Nok and now I got a useful party members.

Magus makes EK obsolete men. lul

Yes, melee magus is crap, tried it with Regongar, sucks. (at least the eldritch scion, didnt try the other one) Sry. Even worse - you constantly expose yourself to AoO due to spellcasting in melee. For what? To get that 5d6 touch spell in? Just make an actual mellee guy, use a twohanded weapon, then you'll see how actual damage looks like.
Or a rogue like nokkie. However, ranged magus is OK. It's just that ranged magus would be way stronger when you just take 2 magus levels (to get the touch spell + sneak dice and to get the addition attack at full bab) and then take a class with lots of sneak dice - if you do that you'll do more dmg than Nok-Nok - at range. Vivi - look at the grand mutagen, the spellcasting incl. imp invis to sneak attack everybody even if they aren't flanked etc.

Yes. Pathfinder was a response to all the dramafag cries of 3.5 being too munchkin and powergamey and things like that. So, they decided to make even more powerful base classes and crazier options and give more feats to players.

Consistency, not even once where dramafags are concerned.

 

[ArchAngel]

And that micro is what makes him weak.

Price for ability to hit any enemy in the game regardless of dex, armor, and also tank with mage spells while wearing foking full plate with no penalties to spellcasting

roofles

Does not mean shit in this game. By the time he starts doing something, Nok Nok has already removed one enemy. That is one less enemy attacking your party.

 

[Shadenuat]

I see someone is playing on lower difficulty.

 

[ArchAngel]

I see someone is playing on lower difficulty.

On any difficulty below Unfair Nok Nok can delete any non boss enemy in one round on average.

 

[panda]

Late game Amiri can do it even better. Your point?

 

[frajaq]

Any guidelines yet on which classes are good to multiclass a bit into, and which ones to focus all the way on them to get the most benefits?

 

[Lawntoilet]

Any guidelines yet on which classes are good to multiclass a bit into, and which ones to focus all the way on them to get the most benefits?

Vivi 1 and Paladin 2 are good dips for almost anyone.

 

[Andnjord]

Any guidelines yet on which classes are good to multiclass a bit into, and which ones to focus all the way on them to get the most benefits?

Broadly:
-Spell casters are better left single-classed for faster spell progression ("if only I had access to fireball NOW and not 20 000 XP later!!!").
-Physical (melee or ranged) types can benefit greatly from one or two levels dips into other classes that give them quick boosts into what their main role is (for example, one level dip into monk for a tank to get Crane Style, three levels into two handed fighter for that evil smiting two-handed wielder paladin, 1 level dip into rogue/vivisectionist for your ranger so he can get up to two sneak attack dices...).

 

[Shadenuat]

On any difficulty below Unfair Nok Nok can delete any non boss enemy in one round on average.

Vanilla green fella doesn't even have enough BAB to hit endgame regular enemies dude. And no spells to protect himself either.

Also, who even cares about non boss enemies?

 

[Serus]

Any guidelines yet on which classes are good to multiclass a bit into, and which ones to focus all the way on them to get the most benefits?

Vivi 2 and Paladin 2 are good dips for almost anyone.

Why would you take second level of Vivisecionist for? All you get is one discovery and that's clearly not worth delaying a level in your main class in any circumstances I can think of.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Any guidelines yet on which classes are good to multiclass a bit into, and which ones to focus all the way on them to get the most benefits?

Vivi 2 and Paladin 2 are good dips for almost anyone.

Why would you take second level of Vivisecionist for? All you get is one discovery and that's clearly not worth delaying a level in your main class in any circumstances I can think of.

True, edited to fix.

 

[Serus]

Any guidelines yet on which classes are good to multiclass a bit into, and which ones to focus all the way on them to get the most benefits?

Vivi 2 and Paladin 2 are good dips for almost anyone.

Why would you take second level of Vivisecionist for? All you get is one discovery and that's clearly not worth delaying a level in your main class in any circumstances I can think of.

True, edited to fix.

One level of vivisectionist on the other hand is great for any melee build that doesn't have access to sneak attack (so mostly rogues). Sneak attack for potentially 2d6 with additional feat and the mutagen that is good even with 1 level (except for the shorter duration). +4 to main combat ability that stacks with almost everything and +2AC on top. For me, it is hard to resist not giving 1 level to almost any melee fighter/ranger/paladin/barbarian. Even for archers, though it synergizes a little less. Granted, you give up 1BAB but in general it's probably very worth it.

 

[Yosharian]

Not quite sure I get what is happening in the game as I stopped my magus game and restarted as a boring but safe EK. But spellstrike should work with any weapon, two handed included. It's spellcombat that should require one hand free, so no other attacks with that two hander this round, apart from the free spellstrike one that came with the spell. Maybe something got lost in the translation to rtwp?

Spellstrike only grants an attack (to make the spell hit), it does not grant you your normal attacks in concert with your spell that you cast this round.

Wielding 2H and casting a touch spell should result in a single melee attack that also contains the spell, nothing more.

2H denies you the ability to attack normally AND cast a spell, in PnP.

 

[vazha]

Not quite sure I get what is happening in the game as I stopped my magus game and restarted as a boring but safe EK. But spellstrike should work with any weapon, two handed included. It's spellcombat that should require one hand free, so no other attacks with that two hander this round, apart from the free spellstrike one that came with the spell. Maybe something got lost in the translation to rtwp?

Spellstrike only grants an attack (to make the spell hit), it does not grant you your normal attacks in concert with your spell that you cast this round.

Wielding 2H and casting a touch spell should result in a single melee attack that also contains the spell, nothing more.

2H denies you the ability to attack normally AND cast a spell, in PnP.

It says otherwise in in-game descripshun there.

 

[Yosharian]

Not quite sure I get what is happening in the game as I stopped my magus game and restarted as a boring but safe EK. But spellstrike should work with any weapon, two handed included. It's spellcombat that should require one hand free, so no other attacks with that two hander this round, apart from the free spellstrike one that came with the spell. Maybe something got lost in the translation to rtwp?

Spellstrike only grants an attack (to make the spell hit), it does not grant you your normal attacks in concert with your spell that you cast this round.

Wielding 2H and casting a touch spell should result in a single melee attack that also contains the spell, nothing more.

2H denies you the ability to attack normally AND cast a spell, in PnP.

It says otherwise in in-game descripshun there.

Well, ok. I'm just saying how it's supposed to work in PnP.

 

[jungl]

Nothing worth a dip really. Paladin 2 a waste anything that requires saves u swarm cannon fodder summons.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Nothing worth a dip really. Paladin 2 a waste anything that requires saves u swarm cannon fodder summons.

Game has too many encounters that go spawn enemies -> cutscene -> teleport you right into the thick of it. You need saves and protective spells on your characters for those. You can't initiate with anything like summons.

 

[Gregz]

melee magus is crap, tried it with Regongar, sucks

try harder.

Magus is really strong, melee too. Requires a lot of micromanagement but strong

Melee magus becomes especially powerful when he has access to greater invis. But that comes a bit late. Until then he is a bit inferior to Wiz/AT or Eldritch archer.

arcane trickster can perform multiple simultaneous sneak attacks.
and also ignore many DR.

You mean in an AoE with the lvl 10 skill?

Surprise spell is the capstone and yes, with it *every* damage spell is Sneaked. But it comes too late.

So how do you get multiple sneak attacks per round on one target, like Serus suggests?

Level 2 scorching ray and later helfire ray. No save.

Yep, like this: https://steamcommunity.com/app/640820/discussions/0/3393916911747585718/

Fun fact. You don't need the eldritch archer for that. In fact the WIz/AT is more powerful *without* having to hit with a weapon in the long run.

I don't understand, a ranged touch attack is a ranged touch attack no?

 

[Luckmann]

Not quite sure I get what is happening in the game as I stopped my magus game and restarted as a boring but safe EK. But spellstrike should work with any weapon, two handed included. It's spellcombat that should require one hand free, so no other attacks with that two hander this round, apart from the free spellstrike one that came with the spell. Maybe something got lost in the translation to rtwp?

Spellstrike only grants an attack (to make the spell hit), it does not grant you your normal attacks in concert with your spell that you cast this round.

Wielding 2H and casting a touch spell should result in a single melee attack that also contains the spell, nothing more.

2H denies you the ability to attack normally AND cast a spell, in PnP.

I initially misunderstood you, but you are correct if we are talking about "in the same round". In the PnP, it would be possible to cast the touch-attack-spell one round, not attack, and then deliver it as part of, for example, a Full Attack.

But without Spell Combat, it's not possible to cast a touch-attack-spell, get the free extra attack with spellstrike as part of delivering the spell, and then still do a standard attack or Full Attack. But also just to be clear, Spell Combat does not apply not because the weapon is 2h, but because it is not "a light or one-handed weapon". This may sound like a ridiculous distinction to make, but it is important, because having a two-handed weapon does not normally interfere with spellcasting in any way, since you can let go with one hand and then cast a spell, and then go back to grabbing the two-handed weapon with both hands.

Frankly, I've always had issues wrapping my head around this particular restriction to Spell Combat. In the context of other established rules/circumstances, it seems to make small narrative sense to restrict Spell Combat to light and one-handed weapons. They could at least have come up with an excuse.

melee magus is crap, tried it with Regongar, sucks

try harder.


Magus is really strong, melee too. Requires a lot of micromanagement but strong

Melee magus becomes especially powerful when he has access to greater invis. But that comes a bit late. Until then he is a bit inferior to Wiz/AT or Eldritch archer.

arcane trickster can perform multiple simultaneous sneak attacks.

and also ignore many DR.

You mean in an AoE with the lvl 10 skill?

Surprise spell is the capstone and yes, with it *every* damage spell is Sneaked. But it comes too late.

So how do you get multiple sneak attacks per round on one target, like Serus suggests?

Level 2 scorching ray and later helfire ray. No save.

Yep, like this: https://steamcommunity.com/app/640820/discussions/0/3393916911747585718/

Fun fact. You don't need the eldritch archer for that. In fact the WIz/AT is more powerful *without* having to hit with a weapon in the long run.

I don't understand, a ranged touch attack is a ranged touch attack no?

No. Eldritch Archers fire their ranged touch attacks through their weapon, as part of a weapon attack. This means that they are trying to hit considerably higher AC. On the upside, they can also make all their regular iterative attacks on top of casting that spell and making that extra attack, but I can definitely see how when there's spells that gives a whole bunch of ranged touch attacks at once might make regular touch-AC-attacks come out on top.

 

[mediocrepoet]

I don't understand, a ranged touch attack is a ranged touch attack no?

Eldritch archer will cast the ranged touch attack on their bow so will require a bow attack to hit to deliver the spell, just like magus turns touch attacks into melee weapon attacks.

 

[Yosharian]

Yeah Spellstrike makes it harder to hit with your spell because you have to succeed at an actual attack rather than a ranged touch attack.

But AT is only exceeding the Eldritch Archer's damage because Sneak Attack is bugged. Otherwise the EA's DPR is more than capable of equalling the damage of a Sneak Attack spell.

 

[Ruchy]

So two-handed fighter gets overhand chop at level 3, the way it is written in PnP implies it is only for one attack is that how it is implemented in game? Wondering if it is worth taking three levels of two handed fighter for my two hander paladin build.

 

[Yosharian]

So two-handed fighter gets overhand chop at level 3, the way it is written in PnP implies it is only for one attack is that how it is implemented in game? Wondering if it is worth taking three levels of two handed fighter for my two hander paladin build.

Don't forget that Paladin gets some really good spells. Probably better to get those ASAP.