Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Yosharian]

How would you build a Bard/Crusader? It's a class concept that I find interesting.

Uhh.. you wouldn't? Mixing two caster classes is a horrible idea, even if you went Mystic Theurge that would still suck because you'd only get the spells and not the class bonuses from Bard.

Not to mention that you'd have two different casting ability scores, which would be a nightmare.

Also Crusader is just a shit archetype to begin with.

What about a Bard/Fighter or Bard/Paladin?

Bards are best kept pure.

The best thing about Bards are the things that get better the more Bard levels you have. Which, honestly, is mostly Inspire Courage. Everything else is.. not that good.

Bards excel at Knowledge gathering and social activities, two things which tend to be very poorly implemented, if at all, in cRPGs. So you get them mainly for the buffs, and for the Inspire Courage.

 

[Jarpie]

If I play ranger, what should be the favored enemies? Humans at least one of them I take it?

 

[Ruchy]

If I play ranger, what should be the favored enemies? Humans at least one of them I take it?

Trolls would be tempting, quite a lot of them act 2

 

[Yosharian]

This is what the dragon looks like with Dragonkind III (it's got a different name in this game):

Spoiler

And this is the Elder Fire Elemental you can summon. And I just found out you can still cast spells while Polymorphed... wow.

Spoiler

Unfortunately it looks like Superior Summoning and Added Summoning don't work with this spell. Yeah, it seems that these two feats only work when you summon groups of creatures. However, I was able to confirm that these two feats stack! So whenever you summon creatures, you get +2 creatures with these feats.

Oh my god. I just realised that you can cast TRANSFORMATION while shifted into this Dragon form. So that means you get the Base Attack Bonus of a Fighter... holy shit.

Spoiler

Heh.. the aura that the Dragon form has affects your allies in the tutorial... heh heh heh.

 

[hell bovine]

What about the bard archeologist kit? Are those special class bonuses worth it, or are the other kits better (when comparing pure bards)?

 

[Yosharian]

What about the bard archeologist kit? Are those special class bonuses worth it, or are the other kits better (when comparing pure bards)?

Heroism and Greater Heroism can replace your lost Inspire Courage, so actually, yeah, it's pretty good. The biggest problem is that Archaeologist's Luck just doesn't last long enough. So that's quite bad. You'll run out, and then it's just a weak bard.

 

[Zero Credibility]

That reminds me, Lingering performance. It's pretty much a must for bards (especially Archaeologist) in PnP. How does it work here? Do you need to manually activate / deactivate for 2 rounds / activate / deactivate for 2 rounds and so on to get the most of it? Or did they implement it better somehow?

 

[sebas]

How would a Haer'Dalis build look? I assume Magus would be more appropriate? With duelist?

 

[Monkeyfinger]

How would you build a Bard/Crusader? It's a class concept that I find interesting.

Uhh.. you wouldn't? Mixing two caster classes is a horrible idea, even if you went Mystic Theurge that would still suck because you'd only get the spells and not the class bonuses from Bard.

Not to mention that you'd have two different casting ability scores, which would be a nightmare.

Also Crusader is just a shit archetype to begin with.

What about a Bard/Fighter or Bard/Paladin?

Bards are best kept pure.

The best thing about Bards are the things that get better the more Bard levels you have. Which, honestly, is mostly Inspire Courage. Everything else is.. not that good.

Bards excel at Knowledge gathering and social activities, two things which tend to be very poorly implemented, if at all, in cRPGs. So you get them mainly for the buffs, and for the Inspire Courage.

A 1 level dip into fighter for tower shield proficiency and a free feat is good IMO. I got that on Linzi at level 9, after she'd picked up good hope and displacement. I plan on ending with bard 19/fighter 1. You don't miss anything good on bard 20.

 

[Jarpie]

Should sword saint go with low str and high dex or try get high on both? estoc with finesse could be great.

 

[Yosharian]

How would you build a Bard/Crusader? It's a class concept that I find interesting.

Uhh.. you wouldn't? Mixing two caster classes is a horrible idea, even if you went Mystic Theurge that would still suck because you'd only get the spells and not the class bonuses from Bard.

Not to mention that you'd have two different casting ability scores, which would be a nightmare.

Also Crusader is just a shit archetype to begin with.

What about a Bard/Fighter or Bard/Paladin?

Bards are best kept pure.

The best thing about Bards are the things that get better the more Bard levels you have. Which, honestly, is mostly Inspire Courage. Everything else is.. not that good.

Bards excel at Knowledge gathering and social activities, two things which tend to be very poorly implemented, if at all, in cRPGs. So you get them mainly for the buffs, and for the Inspire Courage.

A 1 level dip into fighter for tower shield proficiency and a free feat is good IMO. I got that on Linzi at level 9, after she'd picked up good hope and displacement. I plan on ending with bard 19/fighter 1. You don't miss anything good on bard 20.

It really isn't. Tower Shields are not very good.

It isn't about lacking Bard 20, it's about being one level behind on all your progression.

It's not good, but anything can work I guess.

 

[Yosharian]

Should sword saint go with low str and high dex or try get high on both? estoc with finesse could be great.

Depends what armour you're going to use.

Oh wait, Sword Saint.

Hmm. Dex is better I think.

Yeah go Dex and try to pick up an Agile Estoc later on.

 

[hell bovine]

What about the bard archeologist kit? Are those special class bonuses worth it, or are the other kits better (when comparing pure bards)?

Heroism and Greater Heroism can replace your lost Inspire Courage, so actually, yeah, it's pretty good. The biggest problem is that Archaeologist's Luck just doesn't last long enough. So that's quite bad. You'll run out, and then it's just a weak bard.

I'm fine with the character not being the strongest in combat, this one would be about getting the most from dialogues. Even with high charisma & persuasion my sorceress failed the checks quite often, so I was thinking about going bard for the evil playthrough.

 

[111111111]

Is a 20 point in a stat really worth it for any class?
Like why would you ever do +5 when you can go +4 and boost two stats to +3.

 

[Yosharian]

What about the bard archeologist kit? Are those special class bonuses worth it, or are the other kits better (when comparing pure bards)?

Heroism and Greater Heroism can replace your lost Inspire Courage, so actually, yeah, it's pretty good. The biggest problem is that Archaeologist's Luck just doesn't last long enough. So that's quite bad. You'll run out, and then it's just a weak bard.

I'm fine with the character not being the strongest in combat, this one would be about getting the most from dialogues. Even with high charisma & persuasion my sorceress failed the checks quite often, so I was thinking about going bard for the evil playthrough.

Oh you'll be pretty strong. Just in short bursts. Someone else mentioned Lingering Performance, I hadn't thought of that feat. If you get that, you might be able to use up your round allowance in one-round bursts, getting 3 rounds out of each burst due to LP. If it works that way. If you use it that way, it's pretty good, it's maybe 24 rounds (4+4=8, 8x3 = 24) per day from level 1 which isn't bad. I mean, it's not particularly good either, but it's certainly better than before.

That's interesting about the Persuasion thing. Did your Sorc have max ranks in Persuasion?

 

[Yosharian]

Is a 20 point in a stat really worth it for any class?
Like why would you ever do +5 when you can go +4 and boost two stats to +3.

Sometimes, but most of the time not. Depends on the build.

It can work out as an effective +1DC from levels 8-12 and 16-20, which are quite crucial levels.

 

[Ruchy]

Can I ask your thoughts on the Paladin and the archetypes? They seem so stat heavy and aside from amazing saves I'm not really seeing the positives.

 

[hell bovine]

Yosharian
She did, but the rolls weren't in her favor, lol.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Should sword saint go with low str and high dex or try get high on both? estoc with finesse could be great.

With no armor you need high dex, definitely. But my advice would be to pick up dueling sword instead. You can get the proficiency, focus and finesse right at level 1. At level 3 pick up slashing grace for dex to damage, and then dueling mastery for even more bonuses.

 

[Yosharian]

Can I ask your thoughts on the Paladin and the archetypes? They seem so stat heavy and aside from amazing saves I'm not really seeing the positives.

Crap

The archetypes I mean, Paladin itself is amazing

 

[aweigh]

I found a really good build:

Human
Fighter

Pump STR

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Should sword saint go with low str and high dex or try get high on both? estoc with finesse could be great.

Depends what armour you're going to use.

Oh wait, Sword Saint.

Hmm. Dex is better I think.

Yeah go Dex and try to pick up an Agile Estoc later on.

Agreed, I think it’s a mistake to try a STR based Sword Saint. I’m playing as a regular DEX based Magus with weapon finesse and fencing grace, which seems to work with spellstrike and spell combat even though I hear that it shouldn’t in the p&p version. Your Magus needs to be able to get up close and personal and a Sword Saint needs to do it without armor. You want that extra AC. For a Sword Saint, strength is a dump stat.

If you play as human, you’ll have enough feats to take slashing or fencing grace from level 3. The only problem in the prologue is that you should really make your chosen weapon an estoc, which means your Sword Saint won’t be able to use the rapier the game gives you. You’ll have to get by using only simple weapons until you can buy an estoc at Oleg’s.

Zero Credibility an estoc is better for a Magus than a dueling sword because it has a larger crit range (18-20 vs 19-20) and your crits apply to touch spells cast via spellstrike. If you take improved criticals down the line it becomes 15-20 as opposed to 17-20 for a dueling sword: estoc makes you a magical damage dealing machine. I think that’s worth the tradeoff of not getting the extra 2 AC from dueling mastery. Although for a sword saint I admit it’s a tougher call. By the time you’d get it at level 5, you’ll have mirror image and your spells will be renewable by tapping your arcane pool.

EDIT: Sword Saint’s chosen weapon counts as weapon focus, so you can take Fencing/Slashing Grace at level 1 with a human’s bonus feat.

 

[Zero Credibility]

Right, forgot about crit range. Well, if he is going with estoc he needs fencing grace then to get dex to damage. He will miss out on dueling mastery, and I think there are more magical dueling swords around than estocs (makes sense, as this is a local weapon). The big problem with sword saint is that they don't get spell recall, and combined with reduced spells that really hurts.

 

[aweigh]

Can one two-hand bonus specific medium-sized weapons, like one can two-hand a Bastard Sword in 3.5?

 

[Jarpie]

Should sword saint go with low str and high dex or try get high on both? estoc with finesse could be great.

Depends what armour you're going to use.

Oh wait, Sword Saint.

Hmm. Dex is better I think.

Yeah go Dex and try to pick up an Agile Estoc later on.

Agreed, I think it’s a mistake to try a STR based Sword Saint. I’m playing as a regular DEX based Magus with weapon finesse and fencing grace, which seems to work with spellstrike and spell combat even though I hear that it shouldn’t in the p&p version. Your Magus needs to be able to get up close and personal and a Sword Saint needs to do it without armor. You want that extra AC. For a Sword Saint, strength is a dump stat.

If you play as human, you’ll have enough feats to take slashing or fencing grace from level 3. The only problem in the prologue is that you should really make your chosen weapon an estoc, which means your Sword Saint won’t be able to use the rapier the game gives you. You’ll have to get by using only simple weapons until you can buy an estoc at Oleg’s.

Zero Credibility an estoc is better for a Magus than a dueling sword because it has a larger crit range (18-20 vs 19-20) and your crits apply to touch spells cast via spellstrike. If you take improved criticals down the line it becomes 15-20 as opposed to 17-20 for a dueling sword: estoc makes you a magical damage dealing machine. I think that’s worth the tradeoff of not getting the extra 2 AC from dueling mastery. Although for a sword saint I admit it’s a tougher call. By the time you’d get it at level 5, you’ll have mirror image and your spells will be renewable by tapping your arcane pool.

You get the chosen weapon by default, same with the clerics and inquisitors with their deities favored weapons. I was thinking 16 int, which is enough to get lvl 6 spells. I can't decide between sword saint, eldritch archer, tactician inquisitor and sacred huntsmaster...with mastodon abviously, my own miniature mammoth would fucking cool.